Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On 4/6/2019 11:41 PM, Guillem Jover wrote: > Sure, and I've tried libinput with X.Org and for me it's the same subpar > experience as on Wayland. The difference is that with X.Org I can install > the synaptics driver. I think it'd be worthwhile to try and articulate a bug report for libinput as to what is sub par about it - apart from being subtly different from synaptics. In particular I have found them to be very responsive. Some touchpads do need quirks and they have documentation how to record and replay touchpad input[1] for debugging purposes. Both Linux (with libinput) and Windows (with "Precision" drivers) now go the way of processing the events in software only rather than having proprietary processing in the touchpad. Once the kinks are ironed out that should actually yield a better, more consistent experience. Kind regards and thanks Philipp Kern [1] https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/tools.html
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
> Even then, AFAIR Qt does not enable Wayland support by default, and it > might need the following environment variables Having installed the packages, I'm able to choose KDE's Wayland session from SDDM and it works out-of-the-box. Applications don't run with Xwayland, and I've stumbled on some Wayland-specific bugs that've been reported already.
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 2:09 PM Bastian Blank wrote: > You use your display in HiDPI mode or, worse, in fractional HiDPI mode? I don't own hardware that is new enough. > mpv knows about the real resolution Could you try totem too? > This package is maintained by QA. >From a user PoV the Maintainer field has little correlation with how useful a package is, often it is the old unmaintained things that are more useful since people stopped changing them in incompatible ways or dropping useful features. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
Paul Wise: > There doesn't appear to be anything like devilspie in Debian for GNOME > on Wayland. The "Auto Move Windows" GNOME Shell extension (in the gnome-shell-extensions package) provides parts of devilspie's functionality. Cheers, -- intrigeri
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Tue, Apr 09, 2019 at 08:44:45AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 11:25 PM Mo Zhou wrote: > > I second that since I always refuse to use Wayland, due to > I'm currently using GNOME on Xorg because: > Under Wayland applications seem to have a problem displaying > fullscreen, for example totem only displays video in the upper left > corner of the screen, on both Intel and nouveau drivers. You use your display in HiDPI mode or, worse, in fractional HiDPI mode? At least with the later setting I had problems as well. But usually all the tools behave sane and my mpv knows about the real resolution and can use it. > There doesn't appear to be anything like devilspie in Debian for GNOME > on Wayland. This package is maintained by QA. Regards, Bastian -- You! What PLANET is this! -- McCoy, "The City on the Edge of Forever", stardate 3134.0
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 11:25 PM Mo Zhou wrote: > I second that since I always refuse to use Wayland, due to I'm currently using GNOME on Xorg because: Under Wayland applications seem to have a problem displaying fullscreen, for example totem only displays video in the upper left corner of the screen, on both Intel and nouveau drivers. There doesn't appear to be anything like devilspie in Debian for GNOME on Wayland. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Sun, Apr 07, 2019 at 05:59:38PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > * nvidia proprietary: doesn't work with new kernels. It does, even nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-dkms says "Building the kernel modules has been tested up to Linux 4.20.". -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Sun, Apr 07, 2019 at 01:08:42PM -0400, Peter Silva wrote: > https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/08/27/rockpro64-rk3399-board-linux-review-ubuntu-18-04/ > > 71fps or es2gears? Is es2gears a benchmark, unlike glxgears? -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 2:50 PM Guillem Jover wrote: > I noticed that not all big desktop programs support Wayland natively > (such as Chromium) Patches for chromium would be very welcome [0], but it is of course too late for buster. Best wishes, Mike [0] http://bugs.debian.org/861796
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Sun, Apr 07, 2019 at 06:48:22PM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote: > On 2019/04/07 17:59, Adam Borowski wrote: > > +1. With GNOME not working even on some amd64 machines, it's not fit to be > > the default. Technical reasons aside, the UI is non-ergonomic and > > counter-intuitive, has broken systray, and suffers from CSD. > > > > Once the black screen/crash problem is fixed, you may consider making > > Wayland and/or GNOME the default again, but for Buster, that's a pretty bad > > idea. > > You're kind of hijacking the thread there. Not sure if it's by accident > though, the original question was about dropping wayland by default in > favour of going back to xorg, not about dropping Gnome for something else. Kind of, although only Gnome is in love with Wayland. With Gnome's fallback gone, there are three main options (conflating other DEs into one): * Gnome on Wayland * Gnome on 3D X * XFCE/Mate/... on 2D X The two first options are a compat nightmare (as shown on my hardware, both old and new). Meanwhile, XFCE's compositor is optional -- and if what you want is Gnome, Mate is a nice contender here, that works everywhere. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Did ya know that typing "test -j8" instead of "ctest -j8" ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ will make your testsuite pass much faster, and fix bugs? ⠈⠳⣄
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
Hi Shengjing, On 07-04-2019 03:05, Shengjing Zhu wrote: > This user case may be not enough to change the default choice of GNOME, > but I think this should at least be in release notes. Can you please file a bug against the release-notes package, ideally with a proposed text? Paul signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
> > > > * RockPro64, used as a desktop (I'm typing these words on it): > > armsoc. GNOME no workie. > > Hows the 3D performance on this? > > https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/08/27/rockpro64-rk3399-board-linux-review-ubuntu-18-04/ 71fps or es2gears? but that was a year ago... likely better now? > > * N900: > > didn't try. I don't suspect it could work, though. > > N900, the 10 year old mobile phone? Is GNOME in Debian configured to > use OpenGL ES, which is the only flavour this device talks? > > > * qemu-kvm on work desktop: > > [Host GPU is i915 (HD530)]: black screen in default buster's GNOME > > (thus Wayland), Cinnamon at least gives a message. Very likely > something > > with qemu's configuration -- but work time is not supposed to be spent > > wrangling desktop environment problems, thus I did not investigate. > > I had no problem starting gnome-shell with the qlx stuff, not that it > makes any sense to do that. > > > On every single of the above setups XFCE works perfectly. > > But have you tried GNOME on Xorg, which is the question of this thread? > > Bastian > > -- > Four thousand throats may be cut in one night by a running man. > -- Klingon Soldier, "Day of the Dove", stardate unknown > >
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On 2019/04/07 17:59, Adam Borowski wrote: > +1. With GNOME not working even on some amd64 machines, it's not fit to be > the default. Technical reasons aside, the UI is non-ergonomic and > counter-intuitive, has broken systray, and suffers from CSD. > > Once the black screen/crash problem is fixed, you may consider making > Wayland and/or GNOME the default again, but for Buster, that's a pretty bad > idea. You're kind of hijacking the thread there. Not sure if it's by accident though, the original question was about dropping wayland by default in favour of going back to xorg, not about dropping Gnome for something else. -Jonathan -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian Developer - https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ https://debian.org | https://jonathancarter.org ⠈⠳⣄ Be Bold. Be brave. Debian has got your back.
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Sun, Apr 07, 2019 at 05:59:38PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Neither GNOME nor Wayland work on any screen-attached machine I own.
> There's usually just a black screen, and/or a return to the login manager
> (assuming it does start at all -- which is not granted for gdm3).
And gdm3 uses which backend?
> My machines are:
> * an amd64 desktop:
> * nouveau: way too crashy to be considered "working". With my old
> monitors (1280x1024 + 1200x1600) it crashed once a few hours, with
> new setup (2560x1600 + 1200x1600) it crashes every a couple of hours
> with regular work, or 7 times within an hour trying to watch a movie.
Within the last year only three bug reports showed up for the kernel in
Debian regarding nouveau. Which one is it? Als nouveau supports over
ten years of hardware.
> * Pine{64,book}:
> simplefb. GNOME no workie.
gnome-shell needs 3D stuff, as documented. So unrelated to Wayland.
> * RockPro64, used as a desktop (I'm typing these words on it):
> armsoc. GNOME no workie.
Hows the 3D performance on this?
> * N900:
> didn't try. I don't suspect it could work, though.
N900, the 10 year old mobile phone? Is GNOME in Debian configured to
use OpenGL ES, which is the only flavour this device talks?
> * qemu-kvm on work desktop:
> [Host GPU is i915 (HD530)]: black screen in default buster's GNOME
> (thus Wayland), Cinnamon at least gives a message. Very likely something
> with qemu's configuration -- but work time is not supposed to be spent
> wrangling desktop environment problems, thus I did not investigate.
I had no problem starting gnome-shell with the qlx stuff, not that it
makes any sense to do that.
> On every single of the above setups XFCE works perfectly.
But have you tried GNOME on Xorg, which is the question of this thread?
Bastian
--
Four thousand throats may be cut in one night by a running man.
-- Klingon Soldier, "Day of the Dove", stardate unknown
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> I was surprised to learn — by way of synaptic being autoremoved — that
> the default desktop in Buster will be GNOME/Wayland. I personally do not
> think that Wayland is a sensible choice for the default *yet*; and if
> the consequence is that bugs for software that do not work properly with
> Wayland have their severity inflated such that they are autoremoved
Neither GNOME nor Wayland work on any screen-attached machine I own.
There's usually just a black screen, and/or a return to the login manager
(assuming it does start at all -- which is not granted for gdm3).
My machines are:
* an amd64 desktop:
* nouveau: way too crashy to be considered "working". With my old
monitors (1280x1024 + 1200x1600) it crashed once a few hours, with
new setup (2560x1600 + 1200x1600) it crashes every a couple of hours
with regular work, or 7 times within an hour trying to watch a movie.
With xfce, disabling the compositor makes it work. With GNOME, it's
AFAIK not an option (the fallback is gone, right?).
The crashiness is not a fault of nouveau guys, but our beloved
nVidia Corporation™® and their preciousss Intellectual Property.
* nvidia proprietary: doesn't work with new kernels. Sorry, but I do
a kernel patch once in a while, waiting for proprietary crap to get
updated is not an option.
* (I've recently replaced the graphics card with an oldish AMD one;
didn't get around to trying GNOME yet, sorry.)
* Pine{64,book}:
simplefb. GNOME no workie.
* RockPro64, used as a desktop (I'm typing these words on it):
armsoc. GNOME no workie.
* N900:
didn't try. I don't suspect it could work, though.
* Gemini:
libhybris. No way to run Wayland I guess, X GNOME probably either.
* Omega OAN133:
crashes with a black screen (although it's been a while since I tried).
* an i386 desktop (used as a pedestal for RockPro):
i915 [910GL]. Might or might not run, although the mandatory compositor
on hardware this old would cause such a slideshow on 2560x1600 that it
wouldn't be usable.
* qemu-kvm on work desktop:
[Host GPU is i915 (HD530)]: black screen in default buster's GNOME
(thus Wayland), Cinnamon at least gives a message. Very likely something
with qemu's configuration -- but work time is not supposed to be spent
wrangling desktop environment problems, thus I did not investigate.
* qemu-tcg on home desktop, emulating powerpc, mips64el, ...
GNOME: black screen, Cinnamon: error message. (Tried a while ago.)
On every single of the above setups XFCE works perfectly.
> I think the default should be reconsidered.
+1. With GNOME not working even on some amd64 machines, it's not fit to be
the default. Technical reasons aside, the UI is non-ergonomic and
counter-intuitive, has broken systray, and suffers from CSD.
Once the black screen/crash problem is fixed, you may consider making
Wayland and/or GNOME the default again, but for Buster, that's a pretty bad
idea.
Meow!
--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Did ya know that typing "test -j8" instead of "ctest -j8"
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ will make your testsuite pass much faster, and fix bugs?
⠈⠳⣄
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > I was surprised to learn — by way of synaptic being autoremoved — that > the default desktop in Buster will be GNOME/Wayland. I personally do not > think that Wayland is a sensible choice for the default *yet*; and if > the consequence is that bugs for software that do not work properly with > Wayland have their severity inflated such that they are autoremoved (and > thus potentially removed entirely from Buster), a decision that — in > isolation — makes sense to me; although Synaptic is quite a high profile > package within Debian for this to happen. > > I think the default should be reconsidered. I try out Wayland every half year or so, and every time I switch back to X because most of what I want doesn't run on it or needs Xwayland anyway, which probably negates any benefits of Wayland. So personally, I think it's not ready yet to be the default for a distribution like Debian. But then again, I'm probably not the average user. So the question should be: What benefits does the average Debian user get from switching to GNOME/Wayland in its current state, and do those benefits weigh more than the drawbacks they get compared to using GNOME/X? The average user doesn't care about whether the architecture of the Wayland protocol is better than X11's. And conversely, while I do use remote X sometimes and find it highly useful, this is probably also something the average user doesn't care about. So one should look mainly about how the average user uses their computer and whether that works better on Wayland or X. Now, the term "average user" is a bit vague and can easily be misinterpreted. I think it should be interpreted as a hypothetical user that performs daily tasks on their computer that are the weighted average of what tasks all Debian users perform. So 95% of that hypothetical user's tasks are probably web browsing, email, general productivity applications (text editing etc) and games. If anything of that 95% of tasks doesn't work on Wayland at all, then this probably causes a major annoyance for a user and they might just want to switch back to X11. If it works but is not as good as on X11, then as long as they can easily live with it, it's probably fine. Note that for the average user, if something doesn't work out of the box, they will probably assume it doesn't work at all, even if there is some workaround possible. -- Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards, Guus Sliepen signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
As a KDE user, I don't have much knowledge about GNOME. But I remember at the Chinese user support channel, many people have problems with the default input method (fcitx) and GNOME. The answer is usually to ask them to switch to GNOME on Xorg. Someone may argue that ibus(another input method) is ready for Wayland, but fcitx is far better than ibus (for Simplified Chinese), except it's not ready for Wayland. This user case may be not enough to change the default choice of GNOME, but I think this should at least be in release notes. // send from my mobile device Jonathan Dowland 于 2019年4月5日周五 23:12写道： > I was surprised to learn — by way of synaptic being autoremoved — that > the default desktop in Buster will be GNOME/Wayland. I personally do not > think that Wayland is a sensible choice for the default *yet*; and if > the consequence is that bugs for software that do not work properly with > Wayland have their severity inflated such that they are autoremoved (and > thus potentially removed entirely from Buster), a decision that — in > isolation — makes sense to me; although Synaptic is quite a high profile > package within Debian for this to happen. > > I think the default should be reconsidered. > > -- > > ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ > ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland > ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net > ⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list. > >
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Sat, 2019-04-06 at 21:48:57 +0200, Bastian Blank wrote: > On Sat, Apr 06, 2019 at 08:47:51PM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote: > > I don't use GNOME at all, but I tried to switch to Wayland last month > > (from i3 to sway), and sadly the experience lasted only a couple of days. > > You changed display manager implementations and are trying to compare > that? Well it was obviously easier to compare than against Weston/GNOME/KDE. > How can you differentiate between problems causes by the i3 to > sway switch from problems caused by xorg to wayland? Because the problems I listed were the ones that are obviously Wayland-related/specific or because I tried with Xwayland and native support. And because I think all sway-specific problems I found had already bugs filed. > > I noticed that not all big desktop programs support Wayland natively > > (such as Chromium), or do so out of the box (such as Qt or KDE), this > > implies you need to have XWayland running most of the time, which > > consumes around 100 MiB of resident memory. > > My gnome-shell consumes a multiple of that usualy. But much more > important: why is the qt wayland support not installed? On my main system that's way too much memory used, and i3 and sway consume just a fraction of that. For Qt, qtwayland5 is just a Suggests from libqt5gui5, and a Recommends from libkf5windowsystem5, or Depends from kwayland-integration via a Recommends from libkf5windowsystem5|libkf5idletime5. Even then, AFAIR Qt does not enable Wayland support by default, and it might need the following environment variables: # KDE export XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland export QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland-egl I also tried to play with: export QT_WAYLAND_FORCE_DPI=physical I also used: # Gtk3 (this might crash chromium f.ex.) export GDK_BACKEND=wayland export CLUTTER_BACKEND=wayland # SDL export SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland (For a tailing WM you might also want: export QT_WAYLAND_DISABLE_WINDOWDECORATION=1 export _JAVA_AWT_WM_NONREPARENTING=1 ?) So, are you sure you are not running Qt apps via Xwayland? To make sure I disabled Xwayland support to see what was not starting at all, as I wanted as much as possible to be running natively, to check if it was feasible to run w/o Xwayland. > > Wayland also uses libinput > > which I've found to be subpar compared to the synpatics input drivers. > > xorg only installs the libinput and the separate wacom input by default: Sure, and I've tried libinput with X.Org and for me it's the same subpar experience as on Wayland. The difference is that with X.Org I can install the synaptics driver. > > There seems to be also some issue with Qt/KDE programs and text DPI. > > I don't see such problems, and I use it in HiDPI mode, which becomes > increasingly more common. wireshark is now a Qt application and looks > fine, apart from the fact that it's Qt and the design choices of this > library. See above? > I could add a number of problems I found myself, but none of them are > relevant for Joe Random user. I think I qualified my reply enough as to what was relevant to the discussion and to what extent I care about the GNOME default? :) Dunno, just felt like commenting on my attemps as someone who really wants to switch away from X.Org, but didn't find it satisfactory yet. Regards, Guillem
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Sat, Apr 06, 2019 at 08:47:51PM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote: > I don't use GNOME at all, but I tried to switch to Wayland last month > (from i3 to sway), and sadly the experience lasted only a couple of days. You changed display manager implementations and are trying to compare that? How can you differentiate between problems causes by the i3 to sway switch from problems caused by xorg to wayland? > I noticed that not all big desktop programs support Wayland natively > (such as Chromium), or do so out of the box (such as Qt or KDE), this > implies you need to have XWayland running most of the time, which > consumes around 100 MiB of resident memory. My gnome-shell consumes a multiple of that usualy. But much more important: why is the qt wayland support not installed? > Wayland also uses libinput > which I've found to be subpar compared to the synpatics input drivers. xorg only installs the libinput and the separate wacom input by default: | Package: xserver-xorg-input-all | Depends: xserver-xorg-input-libinput | Recommends: xserver-xorg-input-wacom > There seems to be also some issue with Qt/KDE programs and text DPI. I don't see such problems, and I use it in HiDPI mode, which becomes increasingly more common. wireshark is now a Qt application and looks fine, apart from the fact that it's Qt and the design choices of this library. I could add a number of problems I found myself, but none of them are relevant for Joe Random user. Regards, Bastian -- It is a human characteristic to love little animals, especially if they're attractive in some way. -- McCoy, "The Trouble with Tribbles", stardate 4525.6
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
Hi! On Fri, 2019-04-05 at 16:12:22 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > I was surprised to learn — by way of synaptic being autoremoved — that > the default desktop in Buster will be GNOME/Wayland. I personally do not > think that Wayland is a sensible choice for the default *yet*; and if > the consequence is that bugs for software that do not work properly with > Wayland have their severity inflated such that they are autoremoved (and > thus potentially removed entirely from Buster), a decision that — in > isolation — makes sense to me; although Synaptic is quite a high profile > package within Debian for this to happen. I don't use GNOME at all, but I tried to switch to Wayland last month (from i3 to sway), and sadly the experience lasted only a couple of days. I noticed that not all big desktop programs support Wayland natively (such as Chromium), or do so out of the box (such as Qt or KDE), this implies you need to have XWayland running most of the time, which consumes around 100 MiB of resident memory. Wayland also uses libinput which I've found to be subpar compared to the synpatics input drivers. There seems to be also some issue with Qt/KDE programs and text DPI. The other were problems specific to sway so not relevant to this thread, but the issues in general were annoying enough that even if I'd really like to fully switch, I didn't find this was good enough for now. Although I don't think I care about the default desktop, as users can select whatever they want at install time or switch to something else, I can see Jonathan's reasoning that this can inadvertently affect other bystanders. Thanks, Guillem
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 11:25 PM Mo Zhou wrote: > 2. redshift doesn't work under wayland. There seems to be no CLI >program available for such purpose. GNOME/Wayland in buster supports this natively: Settings -> Devices -> Displays -> Night Light -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
Le ven. 5 avr. 2019 à 17:25, Mo Zhou a écrit : > Hi, > > > I think the default should be reconsidered. > > I second that since I always refuse to use Wayland, due to > > 1. Gnome's keyboard configuration under wayland is definitely rubbish. >I need extremely high keyboard repeat rate and short latency: > > xset r rate 160 160 > >The fastest repeat rate feels like 10 times slower than my >preference. I didn't manage to find out the CLI way to enforce an >extremely high key repeat rate under wayland. > > 2. redshift doesn't work under wayland. There seems to be no CLI >program available for such purpose. > The gnome-shell version of redshift does work under wayland, but doesn't apply to the mouse pointer. > > 3. I don't know whether this has been improved, but in the past >the mouse cursor latency was very obvious. > 4. copy/paste delays between some gtk applications (epiphany, gpaste...) 5. SDL might need SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland explicitely 6. some graphic cards run better under X i guess the list goes on and on > On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > > I was surprised to learn — by way of synaptic being autoremoved — that > > the default desktop in Buster will be GNOME/Wayland. I personally do not > > think that Wayland is a sensible choice for the default *yet*; and if > > the consequence is that bugs for software that do not work properly with > > Wayland have their severity inflated such that they are autoremoved (and > > thus potentially removed entirely from Buster), a decision that — in > > isolation — makes sense to me; although Synaptic is quite a high profile > > package within Debian for this to happen. > > > > I think the default should be reconsidered. > > > > -- > > > > ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ > > ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland > > ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net > > ⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list. > >
Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
Hi, > I think the default should be reconsidered. I second that since I always refuse to use Wayland, due to 1. Gnome's keyboard configuration under wayland is definitely rubbish. I need extremely high keyboard repeat rate and short latency: xset r rate 160 160 The fastest repeat rate feels like 10 times slower than my preference. I didn't manage to find out the CLI way to enforce an extremely high key repeat rate under wayland. 2. redshift doesn't work under wayland. There seems to be no CLI program available for such purpose. 3. I don't know whether this has been improved, but in the past the mouse cursor latency was very obvious. On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > I was surprised to learn — by way of synaptic being autoremoved — that > the default desktop in Buster will be GNOME/Wayland. I personally do not > think that Wayland is a sensible choice for the default *yet*; and if > the consequence is that bugs for software that do not work properly with > Wayland have their severity inflated such that they are autoremoved (and > thus potentially removed entirely from Buster), a decision that — in > isolation — makes sense to me; although Synaptic is quite a high profile > package within Debian for this to happen. > > I think the default should be reconsidered. > > -- > > ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ > ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland > ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net > ⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.
is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?
I was surprised to learn — by way of synaptic being autoremoved — that the default desktop in Buster will be GNOME/Wayland. I personally do not think that Wayland is a sensible choice for the default *yet*; and if the consequence is that bugs for software that do not work properly with Wayland have their severity inflated such that they are autoremoved (and thus potentially removed entirely from Buster), a decision that — in isolation — makes sense to me; although Synaptic is quite a high profile package within Debian for this to happen. I think the default should be reconsidered. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net ⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.
