Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 01:53:32PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: > Adam Borowski writes ("Re: Building GTK programs without installing > systemd-sysv?"): > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 01:47:47PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: > > > You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think. > > > > For this and related issues, I wonder if it would be better to replace the > > virtual package pair of {default-,}dbus-session-bus with a real dummy > > package that has: > > Depends: dbus-x11 | systemd-sysv, dbus-user-session | dbus-x11 > > > > This would pull in dbus-user-session for systemd users, dbus-x11 for any > > other init. > > > > (The idea might be bogus -- I haven't slept since Monday morning; anyone up > > for beersigning near Frankfurt airport until late evening?) > Obviously it's slightly a bodge but these kind of issues involving > dbus-user-session seem common enough that it would probably be worth > doing this as a workaround, if it would be effective. (Which it seems > like it probably would be.) > > Adam, have you tested this (on both systemd and sysvinit systems) ? Alas, not yet -- I've barely returned from Brazil, and my TODO list is bursting at seams. Might be good to get feedback first, as talk is cheap. There are also two separate issues: * apt failing to find a solution, despite it existing * functionality of both dbus implementations For now, we can fix the first part quite easily. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian is one big family. Including that weird uncle ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ and ultra-religious in-laws. ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
Adam Borowski writes ("Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?"): > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 01:47:47PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: > > You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think. > > For this and related issues, I wonder if it would be better to replace the > virtual package pair of {default-,}dbus-session-bus with a real dummy > package that has: > Depends: dbus-x11 | systemd-sysv, dbus-user-session | dbus-x11 > > This would pull in dbus-user-session for systemd users, dbus-x11 for any > other init. > > (The idea might be bogus -- I haven't slept since Monday morning; anyone up > for beersigning near Frankfurt airport until late evening?) I didn't see any response to this and I don't immediately see why it would be a bad idea. Obviously it's slightly a bodge but these kind of issues involving dbus-user-session seem common enough that it would probably be worth doing this as a workaround, if it would be effective. (Which it seems like it probably would be.) Adam, have you tested this (on both systemd and sysvinit systems) ? Thanks, Ian. (at the Worldcon in Dublin so not got the bandwidth to check this myself.) -- Ian JacksonThese opinions are my own. If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 20:51:36 +, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > I discovered that using the second alternative for *conf > worked: put this into /etc/apt/preferences: > > Package: dconf-gsettings-backend > Pin: version * > Pin-Priority: -1 > > This will cause gconf-gsettings-backend to be used during > the build instead, which does not depend on systemd-sysv. This seems like a bug in gconf-gsettings-backend. gconf versions since 2012 need a D-Bus session bus just as much as dconf does: they have a similar architecture (clients use D-Bus to talk to a server that handles writes, to provide change notification and avoid write conflicts), except that GConf stores many tiny XML files and has a lot more D-Bus round-trips (because in GConf, reads are also done via D-Bus). I suspect gconf-gsettings-backend should probably not have Provides on gconf-backend, since it won't be used unless you specifically ask for it with GSETTINGS_BACKEND=gconf (because GConf is obsolete, and automatically storing settings in it would invite apparent data loss when you install dconf-gsettings-backend, GLib prefers that one, and the settings in GConf are no longer read) so the practical effect is that your settings are probably not stored. smcv
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
Hi Simon, I ran into the same problem… in a chroot. Due to some bug, systemd-sysv just did not want to install under cowbuilder for some time. I discovered that using the second alternative for *conf worked: put this into /etc/apt/preferences: Package: dconf-gsettings-backend Pin: version * Pin-Priority: -1 This will cause gconf-gsettings-backend to be used during the build instead, which does not depend on systemd-sysv. gl hf, //mirabilos -- This space for rent. https://paypal.me/mirabilos to support my work.
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On 8/14/2019 2:24 PM, Simon Richter wrote: > The long term question remains though -- I dimly remember that we once had > the same discussion about a library pulling in rpcbind, and that made a lot > of people very unhappy at the time. As Holger said: Then use a chroot. With policy-rc.d you can deny service startup, which is also what the builders do. Kind regards Philipp Kern
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 02:24:26PM +0200, Simon Richter wrote: > The long term question remains though -- I dimly remember that we once had > the same discussion about a library pulling in rpcbind, and that made a lot > of people very unhappy at the time. There was also http://bugs.debian.org/658541 for libimobiledevice and usbmuxd (it is now Recommends). -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 01:47:47PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: > On 8/14/2019 12:40 PM, Simon Richter wrote: > > I have a few users who do test builds of kicad on my server, so I'd like to > > provide the necessary build dependencies, but since a few days, the > > dependency chain > > > > libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-dev > > libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5 > > libgtk-3-0 > > libgtk-3-common > > dconf-gsettings-backend > > dconf-service > > dbus-user-session > > libpam-systemd > > systemd-sysv > > > > stops gtk upgrades from happening because I have pinned systemd-sysv to > > -100 to avoid repeating the last unfortunate incident where I had to drive > > to the colo facility. > > You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think. For this and related issues, I wonder if it would be better to replace the virtual package pair of {default-,}dbus-session-bus with a real dummy package that has: Depends: dbus-x11 | systemd-sysv, dbus-user-session | dbus-x11 This would pull in dbus-user-session for systemd users, dbus-x11 for any other init. (The idea might be bogus -- I haven't slept since Monday morning; anyone up for beersigning near Frankfurt airport until late evening?) Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian is one big family. Including that weird uncle ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ and ultra-religious in-laws. ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
Hi, On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 01:47:47PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: > You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think. Ah, that works, and aptitude is able to resolve that automatically (but apt gets confused). So the immediate solution works for me and I'll file a bug against apt. Thanks a lot! The long term question remains though -- I dimly remember that we once had the same discussion about a library pulling in rpcbind, and that made a lot of people very unhappy at the time. Simon
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On 8/14/2019 12:40 PM, Simon Richter wrote: > I have a few users who do test builds of kicad on my server, so I'd like to > provide the necessary build dependencies, but since a few days, the > dependency chain > > libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-dev > libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5 > libgtk-3-0 > libgtk-3-common > dconf-gsettings-backend > dconf-service > dbus-user-session > libpam-systemd > systemd-sysv > > stops gtk upgrades from happening because I have pinned systemd-sysv to > -100 to avoid repeating the last unfortunate incident where I had to drive > to the colo facility. You want dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session then, I think. Kind regards Philipp Kern
Re: Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 12:40:24PM +0200, Simon Richter wrote: > And in the long run: would it make sense to require that packages that are > build dependencies of something can be installed without starting any > service? why not build in your favorite container? -- cheers, Holger --- holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Building GTK programs without installing systemd-sysv?
Hi, I have a few users who do test builds of kicad on my server, so I'd like to provide the necessary build dependencies, but since a few days, the dependency chain libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-dev libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5 libgtk-3-0 libgtk-3-common dconf-gsettings-backend dconf-service dbus-user-session libpam-systemd systemd-sysv stops gtk upgrades from happening because I have pinned systemd-sysv to -100 to avoid repeating the last unfortunate incident where I had to drive to the colo facility. Does anyone with more insight into which of these dependencies are actually hard requirements have a suggestion if we could demote one of them to a Recommends? And in the long run: would it make sense to require that packages that are build dependencies of something can be installed without starting any service? Simon