Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Ansgar]

On Fri, 2022-09-30 at 08:00 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
> On Sun 25 Sep 2022 at 07:00PM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:
> 
> > The right solution is probably for bugs.debian.org to rewrite all incoming
> > mail to change the From header to a debian.org address (probably the bug
> > address) and add a Reply-To header pointing to the original sender.  This
> > is the fix that Mailman mostly uses, and it seems to work (I've had this
> > problem with multiple mailing lists I run and turning on this message
> > mangling has fixed it).  But of course someone has to find time to
> > implement this.
> 
> ARC is meant to be an alternative to this, eventually, right?

I doubt that. You would need to trust all mail relays (like lists.d.o)
to not be abusive, otherwise it would be trivial to abuse this.

Ansgar

Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Marco d'Itri]

On Sep 30, Sean Whitton  wrote:

> ARC is meant to be an alternative to this, eventually, right?
Right, but it has been such for so many years now that I am not holding 
my breath waiting for it.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Sean Whitton]

Hello,

On Sun 25 Sep 2022 at 07:00PM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:

> The right solution is probably for bugs.debian.org to rewrite all incoming
> mail to change the From header to a debian.org address (probably the bug
> address) and add a Reply-To header pointing to the original sender.  This
> is the fix that Mailman mostly uses, and it seems to work (I've had this
> problem with multiple mailing lists I run and turning on this message
> mangling has fixed it).  But of course someone has to find time to
> implement this.

ARC is meant to be an alternative to this, eventually, right?

-- 
Sean Whitton

Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Theodore Ts'o]

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 07:00:38PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Steven Robbins  writes:
> > On Sunday, September 25, 2022 4:57:19 P.M. CDT Russ Allbery wrote:
> 
> >> If someone sends mail from a domain that says all mail from that domain
> >> will always have good DKIM signatures, and if the signature isn't
> >> present or doesn't validate the mail should be rejected, and that
> >> message is forwarded through bugs.debian.org to someone whose mail
> >> server honors DMARC settings, the mail will be rejected.  That's
> >> because the process of modifying the message in the way that
> >> bugs.debian.org needs to do (adding the bug number to the Subject
> >> header, for instance) usually breaks the signature.
> 
> > So are you effectively confirming this is indeed the DMARC bug [1] filed
> > in 2014?
> 
> > [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754809
> 
> Yeah, that's my guess.  It's a very common problem.
> 
> The right solution is probably for bugs.debian.org to rewrite all incoming
> mail to change the From header to a debian.org address (probably the bug
> address) and add a Reply-To header pointing to the original sender.  This
> is the fix that Mailman mostly uses, and it seems to work (I've had this
> problem with multiple mailing lists I run and turning on this message
> mangling has fixed it).  But of course someone has to find time to
> implement this.

Yeah, what would be nice is if it massaged the From header to
something like this:

From: Theodore Tso 
Reply-to: Theodore Tso 

That makes things a bit friendlier for various mail user agents, while
bypassing the DKIM signature problem.  But as Russ said, the trick is
finding someone with time to implement the change in the Debian BTS...

- Ted

Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Russ Allbery]

Steven Robbins  writes:
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 4:57:19 P.M. CDT Russ Allbery wrote:

>> If someone sends mail from a domain that says all mail from that domain
>> will always have good DKIM signatures, and if the signature isn't
>> present or doesn't validate the mail should be rejected, and that
>> message is forwarded through bugs.debian.org to someone whose mail
>> server honors DMARC settings, the mail will be rejected.  That's
>> because the process of modifying the message in the way that
>> bugs.debian.org needs to do (adding the bug number to the Subject
>> header, for instance) usually breaks the signature.

> So are you effectively confirming this is indeed the DMARC bug [1] filed
> in 2014?

> [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754809

Yeah, that's my guess.  It's a very common problem.

The right solution is probably for bugs.debian.org to rewrite all incoming
mail to change the From header to a debian.org address (probably the bug
address) and add a Reply-To header pointing to the original sender.  This
is the fix that Mailman mostly uses, and it seems to work (I've had this
problem with multiple mailing lists I run and turning on this message
mangling has fixed it).  But of course someone has to find time to
implement this.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)  

Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Steven Robbins]

Thanks to all who responded.  I have learned a lot!

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 4:57:19 P.M. CDT Russ Allbery wrote:

> Steven Robbins  writes:
> > To re-iterate: mail sent today to my debian address from outside debian
> > came through OK.  Mail sent from bugs.debian.org apparently does not.  I
> > think if there were any issue with the incoming email server (e.g. the
> > DMARC thing that Andrea Pappacoda referenced) that would affect all
> > email to me at debian, wouldn't it?
> 
> No, the annoying thing about the DMARC problem is that its effect depends
> on the configuration settings of the person sending the email.

Oh!  OK.  So Adam Barratt found a log somewhere that confirms my ISP is 
blocking the sender.  

> If someone sends mail from a domain that says all mail from that domain
> will always have good DKIM signatures, and if the signature isn't present
> or doesn't validate the mail should be rejected, and that message is
> forwarded through bugs.debian.org to someone whose mail server honors
> DMARC settings, the mail will be rejected.  That's because the process of
> modifying the message in the way that bugs.debian.org needs to do (adding
> the bug number to the Subject header, for instance) usually breaks the
> signature.

So are you effectively confirming this is indeed the DMARC bug [1] filed in 
2014?

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754809

> If you send mail from a domain that has a more relaxed (or no) DMARC
> configuration, then your mail will go through fine and you'll not see the
> problem.

Well, OK.  But I'm  the recipient not the sender so this advice is hard to 
implement :-)

-Steve


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Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Russ Allbery]

Steven Robbins  writes:

> To re-iterate: mail sent today to my debian address from outside debian
> came through OK.  Mail sent from bugs.debian.org apparently does not.  I
> think if there were any issue with the incoming email server (e.g. the
> DMARC thing that Andrea Pappacoda referenced) that would affect all
> email to me at debian, wouldn't it?

No, the annoying thing about the DMARC problem is that its effect depends
on the configuration settings of the person sending the email.

If someone sends mail from a domain that says all mail from that domain
will always have good DKIM signatures, and if the signature isn't present
or doesn't validate the mail should be rejected, and that message is
forwarded through bugs.debian.org to someone whose mail server honors
DMARC settings, the mail will be rejected.  That's because the process of
modifying the message in the way that bugs.debian.org needs to do (adding
the bug number to the Subject header, for instance) usually breaks the
signature.

If you send mail from a domain that has a more relaxed (or no) DMARC
configuration, then your mail will go through fine and you'll not see the
problem.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)  

Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Adam D. Barratt]

On Sun, 2022-09-25 at 15:42 -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:
> When I first started with Debian many many years ago, I would
> routinely see 
> email for bug reports submitted against packages I maintain, and
> responses to 
> said bugs.  Nowadays I get essentially none of that.  The only way I
> see such 
> responses is by perusing bugs via the web interface -- which I do
> infrequently 
> so messages languish.
> 
> I may have missed when something changed over the years.  Is there
> something I 
> must do to get bugs.debian.org to reliably send me email?
> 
> I just noticed today that this applies even to responses that
> apparently 
> directly CC my debian address; e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/
> bugreport.cgi?bug=1020397;msg=10
> 

The copy of that mail to your debian.org address is being rejected by
your mail server (slightly harvesting-fudged by me; the original log
has valid addresses):

2022-09-25 13:52:49 1obmVB-00FbmZ-3r == steve.robbins [at] shaw.ca
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-46) H=shw-central.mx.a.cloudfilter.net 
[15.222.199.59] DT=4s: SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: 
421 4.2.0  sender rejected AUP#SNDR

If you want to know _why_, I suggest you talk to the mail server
operator and/or check your settings.

Regards,

Adam

Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Steven Robbins]

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 3:49:37 P.M. CDT Geert Stappers wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 03:42:40PM -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:

> > I just noticed today that this applies even to responses that apparently
> > directly CC my debian address; e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/
> > bugreport.cgi?bug=1020397;msg=10
> > 
> > I literally searched my mail logs for the Message-ID in question and it is
> > not reported.  So it appears to have been hung up somewhere.  How can I
> > debug this?
> > 
> > I have sent a test email to my debian address and it came through.  So I
> > think email is normally being delivered.  Just not from bug reports.
> 
> Who is running the incoming mail server?

The mail server is run by my ISP (shaw.ca).  Using fetchmail, I pick up the 
email via IMAP and send it into my local server.  So in my original message 
when I said I had checked the logs -- it was my local server logs.

To re-iterate: mail sent today to my debian address from outside debian came 
through OK.  Mail sent from bugs.debian.org apparently does not.  I think if 
there were any issue with the incoming email server (e.g. the DMARC thing that 
Andrea Pappacoda referenced) that would affect all email to me at debian, 
wouldn't it?

-Steve


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Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Geert Stappers]

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 03:42:40PM -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> When I first started with Debian many many years ago, I would routinely see 
> email for bug reports submitted against packages I maintain, and responses to 
> said bugs.  Nowadays I get essentially none of that.  The only way I see such 
> responses is by perusing bugs via the web interface -- which I do 
> infrequently 
> so messages languish.
> 
> I may have missed when something changed over the years.  Is there something 
> I 
> must do to get bugs.debian.org to reliably send me email?
> 
> I just noticed today that this applies even to responses that apparently 
> directly CC my debian address; e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/
> bugreport.cgi?bug=1020397;msg=10
> 
> I literally searched my mail logs for the Message-ID in question and it is 
> not 
> reported.  So it appears to have been hung up somewhere.  How can I debug 
> this?
> 
> I have sent a test email to my debian address and it came through.  So I 
> think 
> email is normally being delivered.  Just not from bug reports.
> 

Who is running the incoming mail server?

 
> P.S.  This has been happening for months if not years.  It's just that I 
> haven't been motivated to ask the question until now.

So the change might be "fresh".

 
> P.P.S.  I don't subscribe to any debian lists, so it is appreciated to 
> directly cc me in replies.

You are welcome



Groeten
Geert Stappers
Runs his own mail server
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

Re: Bug email is not getting to me

[Andrea Pappacoda]

Il giorno dom 25 set 2022 alle 15:42:40 -05:00:00, Steven Robbins 
 ha scritto:
When I first started with Debian many many years ago, I would 
routinely see
email for bug reports submitted against packages I maintain, and 
responses to

said bugs.  Nowadays I get essentially none of that.


Hi, I think that this is related to bug #754809.