Re: Opt-in to continue as DD/DM? (was: I resigned in 2004)

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 09:43:20PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote:

I support automatically retiring DDs and DMs that don't repond to a
ping, or don't upload, or don't vote, or otherwise show activity.


Me too.

I think "otherwise show activity" would need to be formally captured. I
suggest the exact algorithm(s) used by ;
any shortcomings there should be fixed there.

--

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

Re: Opt-in to continue as DD/DM? (was: I resigned in 2004)

[Andy Simpkins]

Speaking as someone who has had his world shattered by betrayal and 
breach of trust by an organisation (not Debian related), I can 
completely understand how any correspondence opens old wounds.
I am not trying to justify anything here; only to say that I understand 
it from *both* sides, and (I may be projecting my own experiences into 
this too much) can see how things can get out of

control so fast



An organisation, and its ideals can be your friend (an idol? a belief? a 
religion?).  You invest a lot in that organisation - you live your life 
through it.

In many ways it defines you.
Belief and principles *are* that strong.
This may not be a healthy relationship, but relationship it is.

You contribute, you work hard and in return you are appreciated; you are 
shown to be valued, to have worth.  oh how good it feels to have someone 
tell you that when outside that organisation you are taken for granted, 
derided, bullied, and as a result you have very low self esteem.



When that organisation fractures or turns away from your aligned 
beliefs; or when something nasty happens and the organisation doesn't 
defend you from those within your trust / belief is shattered in an instant.
There can be no reconciliation, no forgiveness, at best there can be 
acceptance, to move on,  lick your wounds and start a new life.



These wounds do not heal, they fester and grow deeper over time.
You armour yourself with righteousness, you weave stories of what did 
happen (or what did happen when from your viewpoint when hurting) to 
shield you from the pain.
You put it in a box at the back of your mind and do not ever want to go 
there again.


Years later you still wake at night, replaying the events over and over 
again in your head.  you tell yourself you did the right thing to leave, 
you conclude that given the same events again you would probably have 
done the same things, acted the same way but wish that you could have 
acted without as much venom.



Fast forward a decade or more

Someone from that organisation opens that box

You go from your usual calm and controlled self to burning hate monster 
instantly.  You lash out, 'how dare you cause me to relive all this 
pain?'.  'leave me alone - I have told you before; go away'
Some days later when you look back on this you are not proud of what you 
did, but the pain is back, why should I care about others who have just 
hurt me again?


These wounds do not heal, they fester and grow deeper over time. They 
have been reopened and alongside them sits a new gash in your heart.
You armour yourself with righteousness, you weave stories of what did 
happen (or what did happen when from your viewpoint when hurting) to 
shield you from the pain.
You put it in a box at the back of your mind and do not ever want to go 
there again.


You still wake at night, replaying the events over and over again in 
your head.  you tell yourself you did the right thing to leave, you 
conclude that given the same events again you would probably have done 
the same things, acted the same way but wish that you could have acted 
without as much venom.


In time you get more and more trouble free nights of sleep.

In time...


Andy
//trying very hard not to break down whilst typing this.

Re: Opt-in to continue as DD/DM? (was: I resigned in 2004)

[Emilio Pozuelo Monfort]

On 12/11/2018 20:47, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 09:43:20PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
>> Tollef Fog Heen :
>>> (I also wonder if we should just require people to opt in to their
>>> DD-ship on a yearly basis instead of doing most of the WAT/MIA dance. If
>>> people can't be bothered to reply to a single email saying «yup, another
>>> year please» with some reasonable amount of pinging and time to reply,
>>> they are effectively MIA, at least if they haven't let people know on
>>> -private or similar.)
>>
>> I support automatically retiring DDs and DMs that don't repond to a
>> ping, or don't upload, or don't vote, or otherwise show activity.
> 
> Since last year it already kind of happens for DMs, that are removed
> from the keyring.  We in the MIA team still manually process all of them
> before orphaning the packages, which is the much more nasty task than
> you may think, given that apparently some people want to keep being in
> Maintainer of stuff despite not uploading for years and having lost the
> technical ability to upload years before as well (yes, I'm not kidding).

Might be less nasty if it was done by a cron job / role account, rather than
manually by a DD who can be blamed by the inactive maintainer.

Cheers,
Emilio

Re: Opt-in to continue as DD/DM? (was: I resigned in 2004)

[Filippo Rusconi]

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 09:43:20PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote:

Tollef Fog Heen :

(I also wonder if we should just require people to opt in to their
DD-ship on a yearly basis instead of doing most of the WAT/MIA dance. If
people can't be bothered to reply to a single email saying «yup, another
year please» with some reasonable amount of pinging and time to reply,
they are effectively MIA, at least if they haven't let people know on
-private or similar.)


I support automatically retiring DDs and DMs that don't repond to a
ping, or don't upload, or don't vote, or otherwise show activity.


+1

--

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀  Filippo Rusconi, PhD
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁   Scientist at CNRS
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀   Debian Developer
⠈⠳⣄  http://msxpertsuite.org
 http://www.debian.org

Re: Opt-in to continue as DD/DM? (was: I resigned in 2004)

[Mattia Rizzolo]

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 09:43:20PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> Tollef Fog Heen :
> > (I also wonder if we should just require people to opt in to their
> > DD-ship on a yearly basis instead of doing most of the WAT/MIA dance. If
> > people can't be bothered to reply to a single email saying «yup, another
> > year please» with some reasonable amount of pinging and time to reply,
> > they are effectively MIA, at least if they haven't let people know on
> > -private or similar.)
> 
> I support automatically retiring DDs and DMs that don't repond to a
> ping, or don't upload, or don't vote, or otherwise show activity.

Since last year it already kind of happens for DMs, that are removed
from the keyring.  We in the MIA team still manually process all of them
before orphaning the packages, which is the much more nasty task than
you may think, given that apparently some people want to keep being in
Maintainer of stuff despite not uploading for years and having lost the
technical ability to upload years before as well (yes, I'm not kidding).

-- 
regards,
Mattia Rizzolo

GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18  4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540  .''`.
more about me:  https://mapreri.org : :'  :
Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri  `. `'`
Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia  `-


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