Bug#771825: release-notes: Update information on non-systemd Jessie upgrades and installations
On Sun, 2014-12-14 at 17:01 +, Brian Potkin wrote: On Thu 04 Dec 2014 at 12:02:27 +0100, Svante Signell wrote: +It is also a good idea to install +systemitem role=package sysvinit-core, sysvint and sysvinit-utils +/systemitem as the first packages when upgrading. What is gained by doing this? If pinning is used sysvinit-core is installed. Are you sure? I'm not. Pinning is a help for apt and aptitude to resolve which packages to install. If sysvinit-core is installed before a dist-upgrade is done why bother with pinning? Other packages might install systemd-sysv by mistake? As was the case with libpam-systemd before the Depends: of libpam-systemd was changed to systemd-shim | systemd-sysv? Pinning helps you to avoid such mistakes. Aren't sysvint and sysvinit-utils already on the system and upgraded without doing anything special with them beforehand? Not sure about this either. Are you? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-doc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1418645602.18327.49.ca...@g3620.my.own.domain
Bug#771825: release-notes: Update information on non-systemd Jessie upgrades and installations
On Sun, 2014-12-14 at 11:46 +0100, Joost van Baal-Ilić wrote: Hi Svante, Care to update the patch now that the CTTE-decision has been taken? I can apply the patch today. Thanks for your work! Bye, Attached is an updated patch, adding some information about apt-get upgrade and apt-get dist-upgrade, as well as the grub new entry. I'll create a Wheezy image and try out the examples in the patch (if/when time permits). Maybe somebody else is interested in helping out too? Thanks! Index: en/issues.dbk === --- en/issues.dbk (revision 10513) +++ en/issues.dbk (working copy) @@ -178,12 +178,15 @@ para Jessie ships with systemitem role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem as -emphasisdefault/emphasis init system. If you have a -preference for another init such as systemitem +emphasisdefault/emphasis init system. +This package is now installed automatically on upgrades. + /para + para +If you have a preference for another init such as systemitem role=packagesysvinit-core/systemitem or systemitem role=packageupstart/systemitem, it is recommended to setup APT pinning prior to the upgrade. As an example, to prevent -systemitem role=packagesystemd/systemitem from being +systemitem role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem from being installed during the upgrade, you can create a file called filename/etc/apt/preferences.d/local-pin-init/filename with the following contents: @@ -193,6 +196,11 @@ Pin: release o=Debian Pin-Priority: -1 /screen + para +Please note that the upgrade may install packages containing +systemd in their name even with APT pinning. These alone do +emphasisnot/emphasis change your init system. + /para caution para Be advised that some packages may have degraded behaviour or @@ -199,14 +207,51 @@ may be lacking features under a non-default init system. /para /caution + itemizedlist + listitem para -Please note that the upgrade may install packages containing -systemd in their name even with APT pinning. These alone do -emphasisnot/emphasis change your init system. To use -systemd as your init system, the systemitem -role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem package must be -installed first. +It is also a good idea to install +systemitem role=package sysvinit-core, sysvint and sysvinit-utils +/systemitem as the first packages when upgrading. + /para /listitem + listitem para apt-get upgrade from Wheezy to Jessie can boot + with init=/lib/sysvinit/init unless/until the old sysvinit package + is removed by e.g. autoclean. + caution + Don't autoclean until you have installed sysvinit-core if you + don't want systemd-sysv installed! + /caution + /para /listitem + listitem para apt-get dist-upgrade Wheezy to Jessie will get + systemd-sysv installed, and sysvinit will be history!! Otherwise + you need to install sysvinit-core on next reboot (if your system + boots). + caution + Don't dist-upgrade until you have installed sysvinit-core if you + don't want systemd-sysv installed! + /caution + /para /listitem + listitem para grub will get a new menu entry to boot with + init=/lib/sysvinit/init if something goes wrong with the switch to + systemd-sysv (unless you dist-upgrade). If you are using some other + bootloader, e.g. LILO you are on your own. /para /listitem + listitem para +If you have a desktop environment installed, it is also +recommended to install systemitem +role=packagesystemd-shim/systemitem to /para + itemizedlist + listitem para + assist apt and/or aptitude with the upgrade, + /para /listitem + listitem para avoid getting systemitem + role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem installed by mistake, + e.g. if you have forgotten to create the pinning file. /para + /listitem + /itemizedlist + /listitem + /itemizedlist + section id=systemd-auto-mounts-incompat !-- Wheezy to Jessie -- titleStricter handling of failing mounts during boot under systemd/title
Bug#771825: release-notes: Update information on non-systemd Jessie upgrades and installations
On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 16:46 +0100, Joost van Baal-Ilić wrote: Hi again Svante, On closer look of the proposed patch, I feel the tone is not right. Text like apt-get dist-upgrade Wheezy to Jessie will get systemd-sysv installed, and sysvinit will be history!! Otherwise you need to install sysvinit-core on next reboot (if your system boots). is not suitable for our release notes. The release notes should emphasise default or very common scenarios. We assume most of our users to go with our new default choice of systemd. Those preferring other init systems might in general be better helped by e.g. pointing to a wiki page. I agree with what Osamu Aoki wrote on december 3, in slightly different context. However, if you can supply _short_ and _simple_ instructions on how to upgrade and keep the previously selected init-system, such instructions are likely suitable. I was a bit put off by your use of !!. I believe the 2 quoted sentences could better be dropped. Care to minimise and adjust the patch? Sorry for not raising this earlier. Hi I trimmed the patch, less text now. However, the LILO comment is still there. Do you want me to remove that one too? Index: en/issues.dbk === --- en/issues.dbk (revision 10513) +++ en/issues.dbk (working copy) @@ -178,12 +178,15 @@ para Jessie ships with systemitem role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem as -emphasisdefault/emphasis init system. If you have a -preference for another init such as systemitem +emphasisdefault/emphasis init system. +This package is now installed automatically on upgrades. + /para + para +If you have a preference for another init such as systemitem role=packagesysvinit-core/systemitem or systemitem role=packageupstart/systemitem, it is recommended to setup APT pinning prior to the upgrade. As an example, to prevent -systemitem role=packagesystemd/systemitem from being +systemitem role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem from being installed during the upgrade, you can create a file called filename/etc/apt/preferences.d/local-pin-init/filename with the following contents: @@ -193,6 +196,11 @@ Pin: release o=Debian Pin-Priority: -1 /screen + para +Please note that the upgrade may install packages containing +systemd in their name even with APT pinning. These alone do +emphasisnot/emphasis change your init system. + /para caution para Be advised that some packages may have degraded behaviour or @@ -199,14 +207,41 @@ may be lacking features under a non-default init system. /para /caution + itemizedlist + listitem para -Please note that the upgrade may install packages containing -systemd in their name even with APT pinning. These alone do -emphasisnot/emphasis change your init system. To use -systemd as your init system, the systemitem -role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem package must be -installed first. +It is also a good idea to install +systemitem role=package sysvinit-core, sysvint and sysvinit-utils +/systemitem as the first packages when upgrading. + /para /listitem + listitem para apt-get upgrade from Wheezy to Jessie can boot + with init=/lib/sysvinit/init until the old sysvinit package + is removed by e.g. autoclean. + /para /listitem + listitem para apt-get dist-upgrade Wheezy to Jessie will get + systemd-sysv installed, and sysvinit will be history. + /para /listitem + listitem para grub will get a new menu entry to boot with + init=/lib/sysvinit/init if something goes wrong with the switch to + systemd-sysv. If you are using some other bootloader, e.g. LILO you + are on your own. /para /listitem + listitem para +If you have a desktop environment installed, it is also +recommended to install systemitem +role=packagesystemd-shim/systemitem to /para + itemizedlist + listitem para + assist apt and/or aptitude with the upgrade, + /para /listitem + listitem para avoid getting systemitem + role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem installed by mistake, + e.g. if you have forgotten to create the pinning file. /para + /listitem + /itemizedlist + /listitem + /itemizedlist + section id=systemd-auto-mounts-incompat !-- Wheezy to Jessie -- titleStricter handling of failing mounts during boot under systemd/title
Bug#771825: release-notes: Update information on non-systemd Jessie upgrades and installations
On Mon 15 Dec 2014 at 13:13:22 +0100, Svante Signell wrote: On Sun, 2014-12-14 at 17:01 +, Brian Potkin wrote: On Thu 04 Dec 2014 at 12:02:27 +0100, Svante Signell wrote: +It is also a good idea to install +systemitem role=package sysvinit-core, sysvint and sysvinit-utils +/systemitem as the first packages when upgrading. What is gained by doing this? If pinning is used sysvinit-core is installed. Are you sure? I'm not. Pinning is a help for apt and aptitude to resolve which packages to install. Here we both have in mind a Wheezy system with sysvinit (an essential package). I am sure that the pinning will lead to sysvinit-core being installed because of the dependencies of the init package. For a system with upstart sysvinit is not installed (they conflict). Such a system will not end up with systemd-sysv because of the pinning and the dependencies of the init package. If sysvinit-core is installed before a dist-upgrade is done why bother with pinning? Other packages might install systemd-sysv by mistake? As was the case with libpam-systemd before the Depends: of libpam-systemd was changed to systemd-shim | systemd-sysv? Pinning helps you to avoid such mistakes. Installing sysvinit-core first is fine if the Wheezy system has sysvinit to begin with; the dependencies of the init package are then satisfied. It would be a bad idea for upstart users to install sysvinit-core before doing a dist-upgrade. Aren't sysvint and sysvinit-utils already on the system and upgraded without doing anything special with them beforehand? Not sure about this either. Are you? I think you should become sure. Regards, Brian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-doc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141215160636.gj19...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Bug#771825: release-notes: Update information on non-systemd Jessie upgrades and installations
On Mon 15 Dec 2014 at 17:00:32 +0100, Svante Signell wrote: Hi I trimmed the patch, less text now. However, the LILO comment is still there. Do you want me to remove that one too? A few other things should be considered for removal too. +It is also a good idea to install +systemitem role=package sysvinit-core, sysvint and sysvinit-utils +/systemitem as the first packages when upgrading. I have explained in another post why this is bad idea for Wheezy users of upstart who do not want to change. It isn't even a good idea when the user wants to keep sysvinit. It is unnecessary advice and should be omitted. + /para /listitem + listitem para apt-get upgrade from Wheezy to Jessie can boot + with init=/lib/sysvinit/init until the old sysvinit package + is removed by e.g. autoclean. 'autoclean' will not remove an installed package from the system. + listitem para +If you have a desktop environment installed, it is also +recommended to install systemitem +role=packagesystemd-shim/systemitem to /para + itemizedlist + listitem para + assist apt and/or aptitude with the upgrade, Why do apt/aptitude require assistance? They have the pinning file and the dependencies of libpam-systemd to go on. If either of them get it wrong it is a bug and to be reported. This advice is superfluous. + /para /listitem + listitem para avoid getting systemitem + role=packagesystemd-sysv/systemitem installed by mistake, + e.g. if you have forgotten to create the pinning file. /para Apt's resolver not working would be a bug. A user error would not be a bug. The presence or absence of systemd-shim has no bearing on whether systemd-sysv is installed. This advice is technically incorrect and also superfluous. Regards, Brian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-doc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/15122014173249.50948b89f...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Processed: Re: [pkg-cryptsetup-devel] Bug#768314: cryptsetup: Passphrase prompt rolls by without stopping
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org: clone 768314 -1 Bug #768314 [cryptsetup] cryptsetup: Passphrase prompt rolls by without stopping Bug 768314 cloned as bug 773231 severity -1 normal Bug #773231 [cryptsetup] cryptsetup: Passphrase prompt rolls by without stopping Ignoring request to change severity of Bug 773231 to the same value. retitle -1 systemd without plymouth kills input prompts at boot process Bug #773231 [cryptsetup] cryptsetup: Passphrase prompt rolls by without stopping Changed Bug title to 'systemd without plymouth kills input prompts at boot process' from 'cryptsetup: Passphrase prompt rolls by without stopping' reassign -1 release-notes Bug #773231 [cryptsetup] systemd without plymouth kills input prompts at boot process Bug reassigned from package 'cryptsetup' to 'release-notes'. No longer marked as found in versions cryptsetup/2:1.6.6-3. Ignoring request to alter fixed versions of bug #773231 to the same values previously set close 768314 Bug #768314 [cryptsetup] cryptsetup: Passphrase prompt rolls by without stopping Marked Bug as done thanks Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. -- 768314: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=768314 773231: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=773231 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-doc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/handler.s.c.14186755717543.transcr...@bugs.debian.org
Bug#771825: release-notes: Update information on non-systemd Jessie upgrades and installations
Hi Svante, Brian: thanks for your comments; I tend to agree. I've just checked; the patch applies: joostvb@nusku:~/svn/release-notes% patch -p0 /tmp/en_issues.dbk.patch patching file en/issues.dbk Hunk #1 succeeded at 206 (offset 28 lines). Hunk #2 succeeded at 224 (offset 28 lines). Hunk #3 succeeded at 235 (offset 28 lines). . Some more comments/issues with the patch: Chapter 5. Issues to be aware of for jessie is about Sometimes, changes introduced in a new release have side-effects we cannot reasonably avoid, or they expose bugs somewhere else. This section documents issues we are aware of. I feel tips on how to override the new default init system do not belong here. Another place would likely be more suitable. Why do you use an itemizedlist? I feel just putting the listitems in normal paragraphs is better. On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 06:10:08PM +, Brian Potkin wrote: On Mon 15 Dec 2014 at 17:00:32 +0100, Svante Signell wrote: Hi I trimmed the patch, less text now. However, the LILO comment is still there. Do you want me to remove that one too? grub will get a new menu entry to boot with init=/lib/sysvinit/init if something goes wrong with the switch to systemd-sysv. If you are using some other bootloader, e.g. LILO you are on your own. Perhaps something like: If you don't use grub as bootloader, but e.g. LILO, changing to grub before upgrading to Jessie makes the upgrade more robust. During the migration from SysV init to systemd, grub will have an entry init=/lib/sysvinit/init, in order to keep the system bootable with the old SysV. . A few other things should be considered for removal too. snip + /para /listitem + listitem para apt-get upgrade from Wheezy to Jessie can boot + with init=/lib/sysvinit/init until the old sysvinit package + is removed by e.g. autoclean. 'autoclean' will not remove an installed package from the system. So just remove by e.g. autoclean. + listitem para +If you have a desktop environment installed, it is also +recommended to install systemitem +role=packagesystemd-shim/systemitem to /para + itemizedlist + listitem para + assist apt and/or aptitude with the upgrade, Why do apt/aptitude require assistance? They have the pinning file and the dependencies of libpam-systemd to go on. If either of them get it wrong it is a bug and to be reported. This advice is superfluous. I suggest something like: The package systemitem role=packagesystemd-shim/systemitem implements interfaces needed by desktop environment helpers expecting systemd-like functionality. The packagemanagement system will install this package if you use such a desktop environment without running systemd as init system. Bye, Joost -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-doc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141216072558.gb3...@beskar.mdcc.cx
