Re: Maintenance of xrdp and Guacamole

[Mike Gabriel]

Hi Nik, hi others,

On  Mi 12 Okt 2016 23:54:22 CEST, Mike Gabriel wrote:


Hi Nik,

On  Do 06 Okt 2016 19:56:36 CEST, Dominik George wrote:


Hi,

On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 06:53:28PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:

I am not quite sure what kind of decision making process you are looking
for here, but given people on the team willing to work on the packages
under the Debian Edu umbrella, I so not really see the need for much
more consulting as long as no-one complaints.  There is not much
formalities involved, and few formalities seem like a good idea.  How do
you envison asking the team and getting a definite answer, given our
current team structure?


On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 05:46:27PM +, Holger Levsen wrote:

But we just did that, and noone complaint. The team was never asked
whether they want to assume maintainership ;).


that's not how our team works, instead, if you and me (or foo and bar
who are Debian Edu team members) decide we want to packages $pkg under
the Debian Edu umbrealla, we can do this, and it doesn't mean that
other team members are expected to join the maintance of that package.


I meant neither of that.

I simply thought it would be kind to give room for
objections/proposals/… before writing somone else's address into a
Maintainer field, be it a single human being or a team.

Cheers,
Nik


Thanks for asking and giving room.

Personally, I think that remote desktop stuff is often used at  
schools and Unis, so an edu-related team is a good starting spot for  
maintenance. This applies to xrdp and guacomole alike.


However, I think that we remote desktop lovers (like you and me and  
various others) should bundle our interests and coordinate our  
efforts better in a Debian team that is more explicitly dedicated to  
remote desktop magic. Remote desktop in many cases contradicts the  
strategies undertaken by people focusing on hardware based  
compositing and rendering. In Debian/Ubuntu, this new wave (Wayland,  
Mir, move every bit of rendering into GL, etc.) needs a counterpart:  
provide remote session support transparently over a local and a  
network stack alike.


As a side info, I plan to upload nx-libs 3.6.x (or 3.5.99.y) before  
the freeze. We (upstream) have reworked great portions of the code  
base and will have a remote session capable Xserver with that in  
Debian. Also, I maintain X2Go Client side stuff in Debian and am  
currently working on a framework that will bring much more  
flexibility into Linux's remote computing world. The project's name  
is The Arctica Project, but we won't make it for stretch with a  
minimal framework draft or such, unfortunately.


So basically, for Debian I think we should consider setting up a  
pkg-remote-computing team (or such) on Alioth and invite maintainers  
of remote session applications (remmina, xpra, X2Go, xrdp, tigervnc,  
freerdp,...) to join that team.


As another side note, I have heard rumours about a new RDP server  
appearing on the horizon (can't give any more details here, yet)  
that can launch X11 and Wayland based sessions alike.


Greets,
Mike


I have just setup the pkg-remote team.
https://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-remote/

I'll take more time for announcing it, while being in Oslo next weekend.

Mike
--

DAS-NETZWERKTEAM
mike gabriel, herweg 7, 24357 fleckeby
mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
landline: +49 (4354) 8390 139

GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22  0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
mail: mike.gabr...@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de



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Re: Maintenance of xrdp and Guacamole

[Mike Gabriel]

Hi Nik,

On  Do 06 Okt 2016 19:56:36 CEST, Dominik George wrote:


Hi,

On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 06:53:28PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:

I am not quite sure what kind of decision making process you are looking
for here, but given people on the team willing to work on the packages
under the Debian Edu umbrella, I so not really see the need for much
more consulting as long as no-one complaints.  There is not much
formalities involved, and few formalities seem like a good idea.  How do
you envison asking the team and getting a definite answer, given our
current team structure?


On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 05:46:27PM +, Holger Levsen wrote:

> But we just did that, and noone complaint. The team was never asked
> whether they want to assume maintainership ;).

that's not how our team works, instead, if you and me (or foo and bar
who are Debian Edu team members) decide we want to packages $pkg under
the Debian Edu umbrealla, we can do this, and it doesn't mean that
other team members are expected to join the maintance of that package.


I meant neither of that.

I simply thought it would be kind to give room for
objections/proposals/… before writing somone else's address into a
Maintainer field, be it a single human being or a team.

Cheers,
Nik


Thanks for asking and giving room.

Personally, I think that remote desktop stuff is often used at schools  
and Unis, so an edu-related team is a good starting spot for  
maintenance. This applies to xrdp and guacomole alike.


However, I think that we remote desktop lovers (like you and me and  
various others) should bundle our interests and coordinate our efforts  
better in a Debian team that is more explicitly dedicated to remote  
desktop magic. Remote desktop in many cases contradicts the strategies  
undertaken by people focusing on hardware based compositing and  
rendering. In Debian/Ubuntu, this new wave (Wayland, Mir, move every  
bit of rendering into GL, etc.) needs a counterpart: provide remote  
session support transparently over a local and a network stack alike.


As a side info, I plan to upload nx-libs 3.6.x (or 3.5.99.y) before  
the freeze. We (upstream) have reworked great portions of the code  
base and will have a remote session capable Xserver with that in  
Debian. Also, I maintain X2Go Client side stuff in Debian and am  
currently working on a framework that will bring much more flexibility  
into Linux's remote computing world. The project's name is The Arctica  
Project, but we won't make it for stretch with a minimal framework  
draft or such, unfortunately.


So basically, for Debian I think we should consider setting up a  
pkg-remote-computing team (or such) on Alioth and invite maintainers  
of remote session applications (remmina, xpra, X2Go, xrdp, tigervnc,  
freerdp,...) to join that team.


As another side note, I have heard rumours about a new RDP server  
appearing on the horizon (can't give any more details here, yet) that  
can launch X11 and Wayland based sessions alike.


Greets,
Mike
--

DAS-NETZWERKTEAM
mike gabriel, herweg 7, 24357 fleckeby
mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
landline: +49 (4354) 8390 139

GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22  0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
mail: mike.gabr...@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de



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Re: Maintenance of xrdp and Guacamole

[Holger Levsen]

On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 07:56:36PM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
> I meant neither of that.

ok :)

> I simply thought it would be kind to give room for
> objections/proposals/… before writing somone else's address into a
> Maintainer field, be it a single human being or a team.

oh, I totally agree! :-)

Thanks for pointing this out however.


-- 
cheers,
Holger


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Re: Maintenance of xrdp and Guacamole

[Dominik George]

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 06:53:28PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> I am not quite sure what kind of decision making process you are looking
> for here, but given people on the team willing to work on the packages
> under the Debian Edu umbrella, I so not really see the need for much
> more consulting as long as no-one complaints.  There is not much
> formalities involved, and few formalities seem like a good idea.  How do
> you envison asking the team and getting a definite answer, given our
> current team structure?

On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 05:46:27PM +, Holger Levsen wrote:
> > But we just did that, and noone complaint. The team was never asked
> > whether they want to assume maintainership ;).
> 
> that's not how our team works, instead, if you and me (or foo and bar
> who are Debian Edu team members) decide we want to packages $pkg under
> the Debian Edu umbrealla, we can do this, and it doesn't mean that
> other team members are expected to join the maintance of that package.

I meant neither of that.

I simply thought it would be kind to give room for
objections/proposals/… before writing somone else's address into a
Maintainer field, be it a single human being or a team.

Cheers,
Nik


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Re: Maintenance of xrdp and Guacamole

[Holger Levsen]

Hi Dominik,

On Thu, Oct 06, 2016 at 04:06:03PM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
> But we just did that, and noone complaint. The team was never asked
> whether they want to assume maintainership ;).

that's not how our team works, instead, if you and me (or foo and bar
who are Debian Edu team members) decide we want to packages $pkg under
the Debian Edu umbrealla, we can do this, and it doesn't mean that
other team members are expected to join the maintance of that package.

most of us care or cared about the src:debian-edu* packages but not even
that is mandatory.

and if someone would like to maintain a software which is really not
suited for Debian Edu (eg let's assume a war game here…) we would
probably discuss this here and conclude to not do that. but we dont
really have a formal process.

(and sometimes its probably better to just form a new team, eg mate is
maintained in the mate pkg team, and not in Debian Edu, even though we
also support Mate desktops and Mike is in both teams.)


-- 
cheers,
Holger


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Re: Maintenance of xrdp and Guacamole

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Dominik George]
> Yep, of course.
>
> But we just did that, and noone complaint. The team was never asked
> whether they want to assume maintainership ;).

I am not quite sure what kind of decision making process you are looking
for here, but given people on the team willing to work on the packages
under the Debian Edu umbrella, I so not really see the need for much
more consulting as long as no-one complaints.  There is not much
formalities involved, and few formalities seem like a good idea.  How do
you envison asking the team and getting a definite answer, given our
current team structure?

If the packages should be maintained elsewhere, I believe that is a
decision best made by the people currently working on the packages.  I'm
not one of those, so I do not really have much to say here. :)

> xrdp yes, but not Guacamole. So part of this question of course only
> applies to Guacamole.

Ah, did not know what Guacamole was (besides the dish).  I assume you
are talking about , after a
quick search?

-- 
Happy hacking
Petter Reinholdtsen

Re: Maintenance of xrdp and Guacamole

[Dominik George]

Hi Petter,

> > the package xrdp is currently marked as team-maintained by the Debian
> > Edu packaging team.
> >
> > I think this decision was never really discussed.
> 
> What do you mean?  I saw lots of emails discussing how to handle xrdp on
> this list the last year?

Yep, of course.

But we just did that, and noone complaint. The team was never asked
whether they want to assume maintainership ;).

> > Does Debian Edu / Skolelinux benefit from having a great terminal
> > server solution? Will xrdp and Guacamole become part of the default
> > set of packages / recommended packages for Debian Edu networks? Is
> > there any other interest in the packages?
> 
> Debian Edu already install xrdp out of the box on terminal servers, see
> the thin-client-server task.  I believe it was introduced in version
> 0.850 released in 2010.

xrdp yes, but not Guacamole. So part of this question of course only
applies to Guacamole.

-nik


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Re: Maintenance of xrdp and Guacamole

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Dominik George]
> Hi Debian Edu team,
>
> the package xrdp is currently marked as team-maintained by the Debian
> Edu packaging team.
>
> I think this decision was never really discussed.

What do you mean?  I saw lots of emails discussing how to handle xrdp on
this list the last year?

> Does Debian Edu / Skolelinux benefit from having a great terminal
> server solution? Will xrdp and Guacamole become part of the default
> set of packages / recommended packages for Debian Edu networks? Is
> there any other interest in the packages?

Debian Edu already install xrdp out of the box on terminal servers, see
the thin-client-server task.  I believe it was introduced in version
0.850 released in 2010.

-- 
Happy hacking
Petter Reinholdtsen