Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
In data giovedì 10 dicembre 2020 18:46:16 CET, Simon Frei ha scritto: > I understand the question as why is debian targeting 5.20 for the next > stable instead of 5.18 LTS. The answer is simple: LTS means 1.5 year of > support, maybe more [1]. That's not long enough for the debian release > cycle: 5.18 was at the beginning of this year. That means support will > end at about the time or shortly after the next debian stable will be > released. > > [1] https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5#LTS_releases Basically this. Just compare the schedules of the Plasma LTS versions and the schedules of the Debian releases (freeze + potential release), and you will find out that the LTS will be out of support right before or shortly after a Debian release. There is no "conspiracy" or "will to ship a soon-unsupported Plasma version in Debian" or anything like that. Simply put, upstream aligns the Plasma LTS series to the Ubuntu LTS, so pretty much out of sync with Debian releases. -- Pino Toscano signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
Simon Frei - 10.12.20, 18:46:16 CET: > I understand the question as why is debian targeting 5.20 for the next > stable instead of 5.18 LTS. The answer is simple: LTS means 1.5 year > of support, maybe more [1]. That's not long enough for the debian > release cycle: 5.18 was at the beginning of this year. That means > support will end at about the time or shortly after the next debian > stable will be released. Basically as far as I am aware Debian Qt/KDE team never actually cared about that a Plasma LTS release would be used. In the end, critical fixes could be forward- or backported from an LTS release to whatever version Debian stable will have. And after end of LTS, a forward- or backport of a fix would be needed anyway. Also AFAIR this has been discussed here or on another Debian KDE related mailing list before. Best, -- Martin
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
I get that, and really I think Debian should target LTS with pretty much everything. Unfortunately in my opinion KDE is kind of in a bad state right now with regards to wayland. The newest versions offer a much better experience for people want a modern desktop with better touch support, etc. For instance, I'm using 5.20 on my xps 13 with wayland because I want the touch screen to be better supported. Unfortunately Kontact, trackpad scrolling, and other bugs are making the experience pretty rough under wayland, even on 5.20. I don't think going backwards to 5.18 is going to fix that as those bugs and issues were even worse there. Really I wish that KDE could be kept more up-to-date throughout the life cycle of stable. It feels like if you have a bug in KDE, you're generally going to have to deal with that bug until the next stable, which is why I'm hoping for the newest possible release we can get. As it stands I may even continue to track testing with my laptop simply because I want the 5.21 changes. On Thursday, December 10, 2020 12:46:16 PM EST Simon Frei wrote: On 10/12/2020 18:12, Joe McEntire wrote: > I don't know where this information is coming from, but 5.19.5 is in testing > right now. Experimental has 5.20 and there's talk of getting 5.20.5 in time > for the freeze, so we'll probably end up with some iteration of 5.20 in stable > if I had to take a stab at it. I cannot imagine a world where Debian's KDE > team puts in all the work to get these newer versions in, just to roll back to > something that is older than what is in current stable. Current stable > (Buster) uses 5.14! So rest easy, there's no way we're going to have 5.12 or > 5.8 in stable, it's just not a thing. > > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/kwin > I understand the question as why is debian targeting 5.20 for the next stable instead of 5.18 LTS. The answer is simple: LTS means 1.5 year of support, maybe more [1]. That's not long enough for the debian release cycle: 5.18 was at the beginning of this year. That means support will end at about the time or shortly after the next debian stable will be released. [1] https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5#LTS_releases -- Thanks, Joe McEntire j...@emberlife.com
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
On 10/12/2020 18:12, Joe McEntire wrote: > I don't know where this information is coming from, but 5.19.5 is in testing > right now. Experimental has 5.20 and there's talk of getting 5.20.5 in time > for the freeze, so we'll probably end up with some iteration of 5.20 in > stable > if I had to take a stab at it. I cannot imagine a world where Debian's KDE > team puts in all the work to get these newer versions in, just to roll back > to > something that is older than what is in current stable. Current stable > (Buster) uses 5.14! So rest easy, there's no way we're going to have 5.12 or > 5.8 in stable, it's just not a thing. > > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/kwin > I understand the question as why is debian targeting 5.20 for the next stable instead of 5.18 LTS. The answer is simple: LTS means 1.5 year of support, maybe more [1]. That's not long enough for the debian release cycle: 5.18 was at the beginning of this year. That means support will end at about the time or shortly after the next debian stable will be released. [1] https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5#LTS_releases
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
Hi Joe, I know KDE platform of Debian testing (Bullseye) version is ahead. I was just talking about the past (Buster) and about that approach. It's great the KDE platform is moving on the edge of the versions, but i think we should consider freeze policy for Debian stable release. Maybe it is possible to connecting between KDE Plasma and Debian KDE to match the KDE LTS version with Debian stable. On 12/10/20 8:42 PM, Joe McEntire wrote: On Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:08:59 AM EST you wrote: On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 07:20:18PM +0330, peylight wrote: Hi Andy, You are talking about freeze timeline and policies. Please look at this document for that: https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html The time and date is defined and any programmer can planning for it. I check the LTS versions of KDE and what can i see Debian choose is v5.14, that is not the LTS version. How ever Debian could choose v5.12 LTS or even v5.8 LTS for bug fixes and security issues. I think Debian should be change the approach for more KDE Desktop stability as for the kernel has taken this approach. If Debian keeps years-old KDE in unstable I'll stop using it, tbh. I don't know where this information is coming from, but 5.19.5 is in testing right now. Experimental has 5.20 and there's talk of getting 5.20.5 in time for the freeze, so we'll probably end up with some iteration of 5.20 in stable if I had to take a stab at it. I cannot imagine a world where Debian's KDE team puts in all the work to get these newer versions in, just to roll back to something that is older than what is in current stable. Current stable (Buster) uses 5.14! So rest easy, there's no way we're going to have 5.12 or 5.8 in stable, it's just not a thing. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/kwin -- Best Regards, peylight
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 12:12:53PM -0500, Joe McEntire wrote: > > On Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:08:59 AM EST you wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 07:20:18PM +0330, peylight wrote: > > > Hi Andy, > > > You are talking about freeze timeline and policies. > > > Please look at this document for that: > > > https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html > > > The time and date is defined and any programmer can planning for it. > > > I check the LTS versions of KDE and what can i see Debian choose is v5.14, > > > that is not the LTS version. > > > How ever Debian could choose v5.12 LTS or even v5.8 LTS for bug fixes and > > > security issues. > > > I think Debian should be change the approach for more KDE Desktop > > > stability > > > as for the kernel has taken this approach. > > > > If Debian keeps years-old KDE in unstable I'll stop using it, tbh. > > I don't know where this information is coming from This suggestion comes from the email I was replying to. -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:08:59 AM EST you wrote: > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 07:20:18PM +0330, peylight wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > You are talking about freeze timeline and policies. > > Please look at this document for that: > > https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html > > The time and date is defined and any programmer can planning for it. > > I check the LTS versions of KDE and what can i see Debian choose is v5.14, > > that is not the LTS version. > > How ever Debian could choose v5.12 LTS or even v5.8 LTS for bug fixes and > > security issues. > > I think Debian should be change the approach for more KDE Desktop > > stability > > as for the kernel has taken this approach. > > If Debian keeps years-old KDE in unstable I'll stop using it, tbh. I don't know where this information is coming from, but 5.19.5 is in testing right now. Experimental has 5.20 and there's talk of getting 5.20.5 in time for the freeze, so we'll probably end up with some iteration of 5.20 in stable if I had to take a stab at it. I cannot imagine a world where Debian's KDE team puts in all the work to get these newer versions in, just to roll back to something that is older than what is in current stable. Current stable (Buster) uses 5.14! So rest easy, there's no way we're going to have 5.12 or 5.8 in stable, it's just not a thing. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/kwin -- Thanks, Joe
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 07:20:18PM +0330, peylight wrote: > Hi Andy, > You are talking about freeze timeline and policies. > Please look at this document for that: > https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html > The time and date is defined and any programmer can planning for it. > I check the LTS versions of KDE and what can i see Debian choose is v5.14, > that is not the LTS version. > How ever Debian could choose v5.12 LTS or even v5.8 LTS for bug fixes and > security issues. > I think Debian should be change the approach for more KDE Desktop stability > as for the kernel has taken this approach. If Debian keeps years-old KDE in unstable I'll stop using it, tbh. -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
Hi Andy, You are talking about freeze timeline and policies. Please look at this document for that: https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html The time and date is defined and any programmer can planning for it. I check the LTS versions of KDE and what can i see Debian choose is v5.14, that is not the LTS version. How ever Debian could choose v5.12 LTS or even v5.8 LTS for bug fixes and security issues. I think Debian should be change the approach for more KDE Desktop stability as for the kernel has taken this approach. On 12/10/20 2:59 PM, Andy G Wood wrote: On Thursday, 10 December 2020 11:16:17 GMT peylight wrote: Hello Guys, Do you know why Debian is not using KDE Plasma LTS for Stable version? I mean for now DebianBuster is using Plasma 5.14.5, However KDE Community have no support for that version: https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5 Why Debian don't choice KDE LTS version for Debian stable version? The freeze for inclusion of major software versions in Buster occurred in early 2019 [1]. Take another look at the Plasma 5 schedule [2] and work out for yourself which version is likely to be in Buster. Andy. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster [2] https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5 This email and any attachments are intended solely for the use of the named recipients. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this email or any of its attachments and should notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. UK Research and Innovation (UKRI) has taken every reasonable precaution to minimise risk of this email or any attachments containing viruses or malware but the recipient should carry out its own virus and malware checks before opening the attachments. UKRI does not accept any liability for any losses or damages which the recipient may sustain due to presence of any viruses. Opinions, conclusions or other information in this message and attachments that are not related directly to UKRI business are solely those of the author and do not represent the views of UKRI. -- Best Regards, peylight
Re: KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
On Thursday, 10 December 2020 11:16:17 GMT peylight wrote: > Hello Guys, > Do you know why Debian is not using KDE Plasma LTS for Stable version? > I mean for now DebianBuster is using Plasma 5.14.5, However KDE > Community have no support for that version: > https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5 > Why Debian don't choice KDE LTS version for Debian stable version? The freeze for inclusion of major software versions in Buster occurred in early 2019 [1]. Take another look at the Plasma 5 schedule [2] and work out for yourself which version is likely to be in Buster. Andy. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster [2] https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5 This email and any attachments are intended solely for the use of the named recipients. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this email or any of its attachments and should notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. UK Research and Innovation (UKRI) has taken every reasonable precaution to minimise risk of this email or any attachments containing viruses or malware but the recipient should carry out its own virus and malware checks before opening the attachments. UKRI does not accept any liability for any losses or damages which the recipient may sustain due to presence of any viruses. Opinions, conclusions or other information in this message and attachments that are not related directly to UKRI business are solely those of the author and do not represent the views of UKRI.
KDE Plasma LTS for Debian stable
Hello Guys, Do you know why Debian is not using KDE Plasma LTS for Stable version? I mean for now DebianBuster is using Plasma 5.14.5, However KDE Community have no support for that version: https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5 Why Debian don't choice KDE LTS version for Debian stable version? -- Best Regards, peylight
