Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
David Woodhouse dw...@infradead.org writes: If you do nothing with the firmware, but it merely exists in your clone of the git tree (by virtue of TI's having deliberately put it there), what exactly are you restricted from doing? Downloading the firmware. That's only allowed if you are authorized and willing to accept the license terms. Which you do not know about until after you've violated them. So what do I do if I download this firmware and find that I don't really want to accept the license? If I don't accept it, then I have already broken the license by downloading it without an intention to accept it. Catch 22. Why is this different to GPL'd firmware on which you violate the licence, and lose your rights? Because you cannot do that without having the opportunity to read the license terms first. Merely downloading GPL'd software will never violate the license, no matter what your intentions are. Bjørn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ipsjw5qn@nemi.mork.no
Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote: This firmware has a very problematic licence. It actually forbids anyone to download the firmware without agreeing to the licence. We have no way to ask users whether they agree to this before even downloading the package. Do not download this unless you intend to comply with its licence is fairly much implicit in *anything* we distribute, isn't it? You only have permission to copy GPL software *if* you comply with its licence. David, I'm rather surprised you accepted firmware into linux-firmware with these terms, as it seems to mean that anyone cloning the repository is expected to accept them. I *do* expect anyone cloning the repository to comply with the indivual licences for the components therein. -- dwmw2 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/alpine.LFD.2.02.1106051023040.5554@localhost6.localdomain6
Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 10:29 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote: This firmware has a very problematic licence. It actually forbids anyone to download the firmware without agreeing to the licence. We have no way to ask users whether they agree to this before even downloading the package. Do not download this unless you intend to comply with its licence is fairly much implicit in *anything* we distribute, isn't it? You only have permission to copy GPL software *if* you comply with its licence. In reality every transfer over a network involves many transient copies being made. However, I think that legally only the sender tends to be held responsible for distributing or copying. If the licence forbids downloading the firmware in certain circumstances and if we assume that that is a valid term, then it seems to be the responsibility of the sender to ensure that the recipient is aware of and agrees to it before they download the firmware itself. You don't do that. And we don't have a mechanism for it. David, I'm rather surprised you accepted firmware into linux-firmware with these terms, as it seems to mean that anyone cloning the repository is expected to accept them. I *do* expect anyone cloning the repository to comply with the indivual licences for the components therein. But you also allow anyone to clone it before seeing the licence terms that may disallow that. So far as I know, none of the other licence texts claim to restrict recipients that don't use or redistribute the firmware. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote: In reality every transfer over a network involves many transient copies being made. However, I think that legally only the sender tends to be held responsible for distributing or copying. It was sent to me by TI with the express intention of including it in the git tree in that form. I *do* expect anyone cloning the repository to comply with the indivual licences for the components therein. But you also allow anyone to clone it before seeing the licence terms that may disallow that. So far as I know, none of the other licence texts claim to restrict recipients that don't use or redistribute the firmware. If you do nothing with the firmware, but it merely exists in your clone of the git tree (by virtue of TI's having deliberately put it there), what exactly are you restricted from doing? Why is this different to GPL'd firmware on which you violate the licence, and lose your rights? -- dwmw2 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/alpine.LFD.2.02.1106051751160.5554@localhost6.localdomain6
Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 17:56 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote: In reality every transfer over a network involves many transient copies being made. However, I think that legally only the sender tends to be held responsible for distributing or copying. It was sent to me by TI with the express intention of including it in the git tree in that form. I understand that, but it doesn't match what the text says. I *do* expect anyone cloning the repository to comply with the indivual licences for the components therein. But you also allow anyone to clone it before seeing the licence terms that may disallow that. So far as I know, none of the other licence texts claim to restrict recipients that don't use or redistribute the firmware. If you do nothing with the firmware, but it merely exists in your clone of the git tree (by virtue of TI's having deliberately put it there), what exactly are you restricted from doing? Possibly nothing - clause 1 seems to make you responsible for the behaviour of downstream users (it says 'used' and not 'for use', so your intent is irrelevant). And this applies just as much to any other distributor. Why is this different to GPL'd firmware on which you violate the licence, and lose your rights? The GPL is merely a licence. Recipients aren't expected to agree to it unless they copy or modify (which would be a copyright violation, in the absence of the licence). And your licence does not terminate if downstream users exceed its terms. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 11:20 +0200, Sebastian Reichel wrote: Package: firmware-nonfree Version: 0.30 Severity: wishlist Hi, Please consider adding a package for ti-connectivity (which can be found in the linux-firmware.git). The firmware is needed for TI's WLAN module, which is mainly used on mobile platforms (e.g. pandaboard, nokia n900). This firmware has a very problematic licence. It actually forbids anyone to download the firmware without agreeing to the licence. We have no way to ask users whether they agree to this before even downloading the package. (We *do* have provision for presenting licences before installation, as required for the Intel Pro Wireless firmware.) David, I'm rather surprised you accepted firmware into linux-firmware with these terms, as it seems to mean that anyone cloning the repository is expected to accept them. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#628676: firmware-nonfree: add ti-connectivity firmware
Package: firmware-nonfree Version: 0.30 Severity: wishlist Hi, Please consider adding a package for ti-connectivity (which can be found in the linux-firmware.git). The firmware is needed for TI's WLAN module, which is mainly used on mobile platforms (e.g. pandaboard, nokia n900). -- Sebastian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110531092001.7796.97664.reportbug@earth.universe
