Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
In gmane.linux.debian.devel.kernel, you wrote: On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 06:30:00PM -0200, Otavio Salvador wrote: Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com writes: ... The main focus of the meeting was how d-i builds and releases work, and I think we made quite some progress on that. There are a few changes that we think should be made that will help a great deal in building, publishing and releasing d-i. I'm not posting any of the details here just yet because my memory fails me... :-) ... Please let me know those details as soon as possible :-) Oh, of course. :-) My beer-addled memory is not as reliable as it used to be, so I'm hoping that Mark's notes are more reliable. mhy: ping! Ok, here are my notes from that meeting. I'm sure people will correct me when I make mistakes / omissions. Unfortunately, my notes aren't anywhere near as copious as I'd like so if people could jump in, it'd be helpful. People present: broonie, enrico, fjp, Maulkin, mhy, Sledge, sgran, Kinnison, kyllikki, Womble2 Issues Discussed: - Kernel: * The issue of linux-modules-extra binaries having been built using sources which are not referenced within dak (and hence not guaranteed to be kept around for the right length of time was discussed). This was also discussed under D-I Builds [0] D-I Builds: * Some facts about D-I builds were clarified by fjp: * Pulls in d-i source (installer/) * Pull in udebs * Daily builds take udebs from unstable * RC builds take udebs from testing * debian/rules performs a testing build * manual builds using installer uses unstable (?) * D-I builds need to be run as root; fakeroot doesn't suffice (? would it be possible/desirable to use sudo to do builds on a per-package basis?) * D-I changes come from * Installer build system * debs * cd build scripts * Metadata generation * How D-I can declare an interest in certain debs/udebs to assist the release team? Could a file be produced listing the relevant packages? * How we can ensure that source is available for everything in D-I images? [0] * Virtual d-i package for Depends to prevent migration of 'bad stuff' to testing? * debian.org daily builds * Would it be possible / feasible to move the daily builds to the normal autobuilder network? [0] This led to further discussion culminating in a proposal for two new fields in .changes files. This is not a full specification or proposal, which is yet to be fully written: * Built-Using-Binary: * Built-Using-Source: These fields would be placed in a .changes file of a single architecture binary upload (rationale for not putting them in the DEBIAN/control file; we want to avoid bloating udebs and also allow the use of these fields for non-package uploads, such as the debian-installer tarballs which may not contain a control file). They must be specified with a strict versioned Depends; e.g. Built-Using-Binary: foo (= 1.2.1-3). At upload time the archive will check that the version specified is known, in the case of the Built-Using-Binary field resolve it to its source package/version and store a reference that the binary packages uploaded were built using that source package/version. The archive will then refuse to remove source packages from the pool whilst any existing binary still references them. PS - I have to say that having looked at this and thought again, I'm fairly sure that the .changes file is fundamentally the wrong place for this and that we need to discuss it further. Normal packages should just put it in control and we should come up with some other mechanism (maybe some form of extra control file which is uploaded) for things which go through byhand (such as d-i tarballs) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
Hi Otavio ;-) On Donnerstag, 5. Februar 2009, Otavio Salvador wrote: I won't be at FOSDEM :( You certainly missed a lot, but you didnt miss that meeting as it didnt take place. (TTBOMK) I planned to attend as I really really would like to see Debian Edu CDs build as part of the normal Debian CD sets for squeeze... (Currently we do this on our own machine using a patched version of debian-cd.) regards, Holger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 10:35:40AM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote: Hi Otavio ;-) On Donnerstag, 5. Februar 2009, Otavio Salvador wrote: I won't be at FOSDEM :( You certainly missed a lot, but you didnt miss that meeting as it didnt take place. (TTBOMK) Sorry, it did. Unfortunately at a really bad time for you: just as the first talk was starting in the Debian devroom. We touched on quite a number of topics, and Mark Hymers was taking notes that I'm hoping he can post somewhere soon. The main focus of the meeting was how d-i builds and releases work, and I think we made quite some progress on that. There are a few changes that we think should be made that will help a great deal in building, publishing and releasing d-i. I'm not posting any of the details here just yet because my memory fails me... :-) I planned to attend as I really really would like to see Debian Edu CDs build as part of the normal Debian CD sets for squeeze... Sure, and I expect that should be easy. We've spoken about it in the past and things should be even simpler now. Ronny is already joining in on #debian-cd and talking about useful patches from debian-edu now. I don't expect any problems. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com Support the Campaign for Audiovisual Free Expression: http://www.eff.org/cafe/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 06:30:00PM -0200, Otavio Salvador wrote: Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com writes: ... The main focus of the meeting was how d-i builds and releases work, and I think we made quite some progress on that. There are a few changes that we think should be made that will help a great deal in building, publishing and releasing d-i. I'm not posting any of the details here just yet because my memory fails me... :-) ... Please let me know those details as soon as possible :-) Oh, of course. :-) My beer-addled memory is not as reliable as it used to be, so I'm hoping that Mark's notes are more reliable. mhy: ping! -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com Welcome my son, welcome to the machine. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Udeb migrations (was: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM)
As requested during the meeting here are two links that explain udeb migration. The first also has a proposal how to improve udeb support in britney. Please ignore the introductory comment about the python implementation of britney. Note that the proposal is not a perfect solution. For that we would need to change the dependency handling for udebs which requires changes in various build tools and D-I. http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2007/05/msg00086.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2008/04/msg00132.html Cheers, FJP signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 02:53:58PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: Hi folks, Apologies for the massive cross-posting, but I'm trying to arrange some discussions between the various teams, or at least those members who will be at FOSDEM. Topics I'd like us to talk about include: 1. how the d-i daily builds are done and distributed 2. how the needs of the kernel d-i teams can better be reconciled I'm guessing that quite a number of people may be interested in these, and in other topics. Is there anything else I'm missing that you would like to discuss? Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Hello? Anyone? -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com I've only once written 'SQL is my bitch' in a comment. But that code is in use on a military site... -- Simon Booth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
Hi, On Donnerstag, 5. Februar 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote: Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Hello? Anyone? Looking at http://wiki.debian.org/FosdemVideo2009 I'd suggest either Saturday from 17:30-18:15 (right before your talk, Steve) or sunday between 10 and 13. Or saturday evening for dinner, but I'm quite sure that wont work out. regards, Holger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
On Thu, 05, Feb, 2009 at 12:30:46PM +, Steve McIntyre spoke thus.. Apologies for the massive cross-posting, but I'm trying to arrange some discussions between the various teams, or at least those members who will be at FOSDEM. Topics I'd like us to talk about include: 1. how the d-i daily builds are done and distributed 2. how the needs of the kernel d-i teams can better be reconciled I'm guessing that quite a number of people may be interested in these, and in other topics. Is there anything else I'm missing that you would like to discuss? Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Hello? Anyone? Hi, I agree that it'd be a good idea to meet up and I'll make sure I'm there wearing my ftpteam hat (note, not ftpmaster so I can't finally agree to anything, but I'm willing to put any work in on the ftp side which is needed). I'm around all weekend up until Sunday afternoon at about 3, so whatever works for everyone else will be fine by me. Cheers, Mark -- Mark Hymers mhy at debian dot org 'I regret nothing?' That's not a song, that's an idiots charter. Andy Hamilton, Old Harry's Game signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
On Thursday 05 February 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote: On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 02:53:58PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: Hi folks, Apologies for the massive cross-posting, but I'm trying to arrange some discussions between the various teams, or at least those members who will be at FOSDEM. Topics I'd like us to talk about include: 1. how the d-i daily builds are done and distributed 2. how the needs of the kernel d-i teams can better be reconciled I'm guessing that quite a number of people may be interested in these, and in other topics. Is there anything else I'm missing that you would like to discuss? Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Hello? Anyone? As I've already made my opinion clear by mail on the first issue I don't see much point in a meeting unless others show an interest in it. For the second issue I doubt that FOSDEM is the right venue. I'll be at FOSDEM and if there is a meeting I'm willing to attend. I can explain some of the technical issues involved and explain why IMO triggering daily builds by uploads is a very bad idea. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 12:30:46PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 02:53:58PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: Hi folks, Apologies for the massive cross-posting, but I'm trying to arrange some discussions between the various teams, or at least those members who will be at FOSDEM. Topics I'd like us to talk about include: 1. how the d-i daily builds are done and distributed 2. how the needs of the kernel d-i teams can better be reconciled I'm guessing that quite a number of people may be interested in these, and in other topics. Is there anything else I'm missing that you would like to discuss? Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Hello? Anyone? Friday or Saturday evening in the centre, or perhaps lunch-time in/near ULB. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Logic doesn't apply to the real world. - Marvin Minsky -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 12:30 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Given we all tend to arrive in dribs-and-drabs on Friday night, I'd suggest Saturday some time. Perhaps either have a working lunch or, if the group is likely to be too large, perhaps take over the back room of that bar with the black and white sign near the Atlas hotel in the evening on Saturday? Ultimately so long as it's after about 9pm Friday night, and before about 3pm Sunday afternoon, I'll happy :-) D. -- Daniel Silverstonehttp://www.debian.org/ PGP mail accepted and encouraged.Key Id: 2BC8 4016 2068 7895 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com writes: Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Hello? Anyone? I won't be at FOSDEM :( -- O T A V I OS A L V A D O R - E-mail: ota...@debian.org UIN: 5906116 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br - Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives you the whole house. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
Hi, On Thu Feb 05, 2009 at 12:30:46 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 02:53:58PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: Hi folks, Apologies for the massive cross-posting, but I'm trying to arrange some discussions between the various teams, or at least those members who will be at FOSDEM. Topics I'd like us to talk about include: 1. how the d-i daily builds are done and distributed 2. how the needs of the kernel d-i teams can better be reconciled I'm guessing that quite a number of people may be interested in these, and in other topics. Is there anything else I'm missing that you would like to discuss? Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Hello? Anyone? not sure if i am going to fosdem at all. MAYBE i will go on sunday, but that is not carved in stone yet. Greetings Martin -- Martin Zobel-Helas zo...@debian.org | Debian System Administrator Debian GNU/Linux Developer | Debian Listmaster Public key http://zobel.ftbfs.de/5d64f870.asc - KeyID: 5D64 F870 GPG Fingerprint: 5DB3 1301 375A A50F 07E7 302F 493E FB8E 5D64 F870 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
This one time, at band camp, Mark Hymers said: On Thu, 05, Feb, 2009 at 12:30:46PM +, Steve McIntyre spoke thus.. Apologies for the massive cross-posting, but I'm trying to arrange some discussions between the various teams, or at least those members who will be at FOSDEM. Topics I'd like us to talk about include: 1. how the d-i daily builds are done and distributed 2. how the needs of the kernel d-i teams can better be reconciled I'm guessing that quite a number of people may be interested in these, and in other topics. Is there anything else I'm missing that you would like to discuss? Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Hello? Anyone? Hi, I agree that it'd be a good idea to meet up and I'll make sure I'm there wearing my ftpteam hat (note, not ftpmaster so I can't finally agree to anything, but I'm willing to put any work in on the ftp side which is needed). I'm around all weekend up until Sunday afternoon at about 3, so whatever works for everyone else will be fine by me. I'll be around from ~1800 on Friday until midafteroon on Sunday, and think a meetup would be a good thing. Cheers, -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :sg...@debian.org | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
Hi folks, Apologies for the massive cross-posting, but I'm trying to arrange some discussions between the various teams, or at least those members who will be at FOSDEM. Topics I'd like us to talk about include: 1. how the d-i daily builds are done and distributed 2. how the needs of the kernel d-i teams can better be reconciled I'm guessing that quite a number of people may be interested in these, and in other topics. Is there anything else I'm missing that you would like to discuss? Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? Cheers, -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com I can't ever sleep on planes ... call it irrational if you like, but I'm afraid I'll miss my stop -- Vivek Dasmohapatra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Meeting(s) at FOSDEM
Once more, with correct addresses. :-/ On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 02:53:58PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: Hi folks, Apologies for the massive cross-posting, but I'm trying to arrange some discussions between the various teams, or at least those members who will be at FOSDEM. Topics I'd like us to talk about include: 1. how the d-i daily builds are done and distributed 2. how the needs of the kernel d-i teams can better be reconciled I'm guessing that quite a number of people may be interested in these, and in other topics. Is there anything else I'm missing that you would like to discuss? Then: when and where would be a good time to meet up? -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com I suspect most samba developers are already technically insane... Of course, since many of them are Australians, you can't tell. -- Linus Torvalds -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
