Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-02-11 Thread Ola Lundqvist
Hi all

I can now announce an half official statement from Kir
(who is the project manager of openvz) that they are now
dedicated to make a openvz. This is what he states:

-
Hi Ola, guys,

Thanks for the info. We have discussed this at length and
the resolution is we are all for it. This means we will try
hard to do a rebase as soon as possible, and I hope we
will succeed.

If (or whenever you will) know the exact deadline date
(or any close approximation), please let us know, this is
important.

Also, can you please point us to the location of the git
repository of what will become the linux kernel for the
next debian release? I checked git.debian.org but
where there are too many kernels to look at.
If it is not in git then when it is?

Regards,
  Kir.
--

So it looks like we are going to have openvz available in squeeze.

Best regards,

// Ola

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:46:42AM +0100, maximilian attems wrote:
 On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 03:17:14PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
  On Jan 24, maximilian attems m...@stro.at wrote:
  
   the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
   if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
   looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
   no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
   to be for Lenny).
  I expect that it will be released after the first beta of RHEL 6.
 
 point to an official statement of an openvz dev.
 currently it looks like they are waiting too long to be in the squeeze
 boat also kernel version should match.
 
 
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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-25 Thread Michael Tokarev
Marco d'Itri wrote:
 On Jan 24, maximilian attems m...@stro.at wrote:
[]
 On the negative side it doesn't have yet checkpointing support
 and not all net/ has netns support yet.
 It's not just that, AFAIK there is no match for many of the
 user_beancounters features (especially the accounting part) and e.g.
 lack of the equivalent of vzctl enter is a critical issue for my
 applications.

Accounting is done in cgroups.  Not as flexible as in openvz, but it
works.

As of `vzctl enter', there's something very similar, but it requires
to have getty (or similar) running on ttyN in guest.  Probably not
what you want.

 While I am happy to see better support for lxc in Debian, it does not
 look like an openvz replacement yet.

It doesn't, indeed.  Both has their own bad and good sides.  The
main good about lxc is that it's in the standard kernel, and
kernel components are ready (maybe modulo some features like
freezing/migration).  Openvz, linux-vserver, other things - all
require quite intrusive patches, which complicating support tasks
alot.

/mjt


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-25 Thread Bastian Blank
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:26:42AM +, Marco d'Itri wrote:
 Actually I meant vzctl exec so this is not even close: I need to
 change the context of a running process.

Hu? vzctl exec does a fork and an exec. Please enlighten me where the
support you want is actually implemented.

Bastian

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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-25 Thread maximilian attems
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010, Suno Ano wrote:

  Bastian Please describe the _kernel_ improvements over the normal
  Bastian images. Most of it is already enabled in the default images
  Bastian and does not warrant for an extra image.
 
 As you can see from http://sunoano.pastebin.com/m4b5380dc , line 29,
 Cgroup memory controller is not. This setting is mandatory if you want
 to control the available memory per containers and the like. IMO most
 folks would want that, if just to make sure their local sandbox does not
 go wild for some reason, thus eating up all memory.

if we want to ennable it for the default image, we need a benchmark
test of obvious stuff like fork()/exit to check that it didn't degrade.

if results are in the noise of the relevant benchmark we can shipp
it indeed in linux-2.6 without the need of a special featureset.


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-25 Thread Bastian Blank
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 06:19:02PM +0100, Suno Ano wrote:
 As you can see from http://sunoano.pastebin.com/m4b5380dc , line 29,
 Cgroup memory controller is not. This setting is mandatory if you want
 to control the available memory per containers and the like.

It is not mandantory for the system.

  Bastian The description reads like it is possible to enable/disable
  Bastian the overhead on boot time. Please elaborate.
 Nope, it has to be enabled at build-time. http://lxc.teegra.net

Please show this on the source.

Bastian

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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-25 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Jan 25, Bastian Blank wa...@debian.org wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:26:42AM +, Marco d'Itri wrote:
  Actually I meant vzctl exec so this is not even close: I need to
  change the context of a running process.
 Hu? vzctl exec does a fork and an exec. Please enlighten me where the
 support you want is actually implemented.
It does, but it does not have to. :-)
It is not documented anywhere and as usual the Parallels developers are
less than helpful, but you can use setluid(2) to associate the caller
with a beancounter and then an IOCTL on /dev/vzctl to move it in a
container.
I used this in libpam_vz, which with some careful planning allows
multiple contexts to share a lot of stuff (with a decent unionfs even
most of the file system).

http://ftp.linux.it/pub/People/md/libpam-vz/

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Jan 24, maximilian attems m...@stro.at wrote:

 the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
 if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
 looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
 no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
 to be for Lenny).
I expect that it will be released after the first beta of RHEL 6.

 On the negative side it doesn't have yet checkpointing support
 and not all net/ has netns support yet.
It's not just that, AFAIK there is no match for many of the
user_beancounters features (especially the accounting part) and e.g.
lack of the equivalent of vzctl enter is a critical issue for my
applications.
While I am happy to see better support for lxc in Debian, it does not
look like an openvz replacement yet.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread Bastian Blank
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 01:37:26PM +0100, maximilian attems wrote:
 I thus propose to enable an lxc (linux containers) [1] flavour:

Please describe the _kernel_ improvements over the normal images. Most
of it is already enabled in the default images and does not warrant for
an extra image.

 * lxc is merged in linux-2.6 and continuously improved
   (the maintenance of it should be thus much lower then
it was for openvz)

lxc is the userspace part.

 * RESOURCE_COUNTERS and CGROUP_MEM_RES_CTLR enabled
   (has overhead that is not acceptable, for general purpose images)

The description reads like it is possible to enable/disable the overhead
on boot time. Please elaborate.

Bastian

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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread Suno Ano
 Bastian Please describe the _kernel_ improvements over the normal
 Bastian images. Most of it is already enabled in the default images
 Bastian and does not warrant for an extra image.

As you can see from http://sunoano.pastebin.com/m4b5380dc , line 29,
Cgroup memory controller is not. This setting is mandatory if you want
to control the available memory per containers and the like. IMO most
folks would want that, if just to make sure their local sandbox does not
go wild for some reason, thus eating up all memory.



 Bastian Lxc is the userspace part.

You are right but then I think maximilian certainly referred to the
kernelspace part of LXC here. At least that is my reading ... context
matters :)




 Bastian The description reads like it is possible to enable/disable
 Bastian the overhead on boot time. Please elaborate.

Nope, it has to be enabled at build-time. http://lxc.teegra.net




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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread Marco d'Itri
In linux.debian.kernel Suno Ano suno@sunoano.org wrote:

 - most folks run Linux-VServer, OpenVZ, LXC etc. on boxes they own plus
   they control themselves so that is not really an issue
I wonder how you came to this conclusion.

 - those environments in need for limits/beancounters (disk quota etc.)
   may probably have to wait another six months or so until it will be
   available in LXC. Till then it is quite possible to run on 2.6.26
   with OpenVZ and then migrate things to LXC. We have excellent
So it will not actually be available in squeeze, and squeeze cannot work
with the lenny kernels unless they are rebuilt with
CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED=n.
You could as well have said proposed to wait and use the RHEL6 kernels.

 Marco Lack of the equivalent of vzctl enter is a critical issue for
 Marco my applications.
I do not remember the exact command now but from what I remember
hearing/reading last week, that feature will be available shortly.
I remember hearing last week that there is no simple way to move a
running process to a different cgroup, so it will be very hard to
implement this.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread Suno Ano
  - Those environments in need for limits/beancounters (disk quota
etc.) May probably have to wait another six months or so until it
will be available in LXC. Till then it is quite possible to run on
2.6.26 with OpenVZ and then migrate things to LXC.

 Marco So it will not actually be available in squeeze, and squeeze
 Marco cannot work with the lenny kernels unless they are rebuilt with
 Marco CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED=n. You could as well have said proposed
 Marco to wait and use the RHEL6 kernels.

I did not propose anything. I just pointed out one possible migration
path from OpenVZ to LXC. I have a few servers running testing with
2.6.26. One could wait (read not upgrade) till LXC provides for
beancounters etc. and then migrate to squeeze and thus LXC.

And yes, squeeze rc1 would probably not have beancounters but some later
rc would probably provide it in case the kernel gets an update. As for
RHEL6, nobody seems to know when it will be released.

One thing I am sure, I am not proposing to wait for RHEL6 kernels since
I am in favor of LXC since it is in mainline and not maintained out of
tree as is OpenVZ.


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread Ben Hutchings
On Sun, 2010-01-24 at 15:17 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
 On Jan 24, maximilian attems m...@stro.at wrote:
 
  the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
  if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
  looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
  no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
  to be for Lenny).
 I expect that it will be released after the first beta of RHEL 6.
[...]

I believe there already has been a beta, just not a public one.  RH
seems to be very secretive about this release.

Ben.

-- 
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Any smoothly functioning technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread Marco d'Itri
In linux.debian.kernel Suno Ano suno@sunoano.org wrote:

 Marco So it will not actually be available in squeeze, and squeeze
 Marco cannot work with the lenny kernels unless they are rebuilt with
 Marco CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED=n. You could as well have said proposed
 Marco to wait and use the RHEL6 kernels.
I did not propose anything. I just pointed out one possible migration
path from OpenVZ to LXC. I have a few servers running testing with
2.6.26. One could wait (read not upgrade) till LXC provides for
beancounters etc. and then migrate to squeeze and thus LXC.
Unlike Red Hat, Debian does not backport features so you can only count
on what is in 2.6.32 now.
You obviously have not upgraded testing recently, because the version of
udev currently in testing cannot work with the standard lenny kernel.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread maximilian attems
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 03:17:14PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
 lack of the equivalent of vzctl enter is a critical issue for my
 applications.

looks feasable thanks to libvirt:
virsh --connect lxc:/// console v1
http://libvirt.org/drvlxc.html


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread maximilian attems
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 03:17:14PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
 On Jan 24, maximilian attems m...@stro.at wrote:
 
  the plan as decided in Portland was to go forward with openvz
  if upstream provides us with a patch in time. as currently this
  looks quite bad (latest available patch is for 2.6.27, there is
  no sign of a patch for 2.6.32, nor any schedule like it happened
  to be for Lenny).
 I expect that it will be released after the first beta of RHEL 6.

point to an official statement of an openvz dev.
currently it looks like they are waiting too long to be in the squeeze
boat also kernel version should match.


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Re: lxc linux image flavour

2010-01-24 Thread Marco d'Itri
In linux.debian.kernel maximilian attems m...@stro.at wrote:

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 03:17:14PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
 lack of the equivalent of vzctl enter is a critical issue for my
 applications.
looks feasable thanks to libvirt:
virsh --connect lxc:/// console v1
http://libvirt.org/drvlxc.html
Actually I meant vzctl exec so this is not even close: I need to
change the context of a running process.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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