Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
> follows that. I might have a more favorable opinion of Debian if it > installed correctly, if it supported more hardware out of the box, if it > allowed me to log in as 'Root' (Which I sometimes need), and if the software > on the CDs worked without corrupting the operating system. the installer takes some getting used to, but it does a great job, in my experience. You just have to know what you want. But that's always the problem with freedom isn't it? Have you tried "su" to login as root? If you're talking about a gui root login, debian is right not to let you do it. But you can always change the X configuration... The deb package system is one of the greatest assets of Debian, and I have never heard about it "breaking the operating system". What can happen however is that newer versions of some programs are more buggy than older versions. But to "break" the operating system...? Did you try to install experimental packages or something? As far as hardware... try installing testing and then upgrading to sid, or just upgrading the kernel package to sid. That takes care of many problems. Of course, there are always the eternal pains in the butt, such as getting software suspend to work, which require patching and recompiling the kernel. But those are common to all distributions. And compiling the kernel in debian can't get any easier, using the make-kpkg package. Alex. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Monday 03 January 2005 07:29 am, Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo wrote: > El jue, 30-12-2004 a las 13:28 -0400, Derek Broughton escribió: > [...] > > > Ubuntu installed on my Dell Inspiron right out of the box. Too bad I > > forgot what I used for the root password :-) > > Boot from Ubuntu Live CD or Knoppix, When you installed Ubuntu you were asked to create a user. That user is given root via sudo. So, you can do: sudo synaptic At the command prompt. And you will then be asked for *your* password. You can also set a password for root from the command prompt. -- peace, Alvin Smith http://www.alvinsmith.com
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Monday, 3. January 2005 13.29, Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo wrote: > El jue, 30-12-2004 a las 13:28 -0400, Derek Broughton escribiÃ: > [...] > > > Ubuntu installed on my Dell Inspiron right out of the box. Too bad I > > forgot what I used for the root password :-) > > Boot from Ubuntu Live CD or Knoppix, mount root partition on /mnt or > something like that, edit /et/passwd, delete the 'x' between your user > and uid. Reboot with your usual installation from HD. Your root's > password should be blank now. > > Cheers, or try "sudo su" as far as I know Ubuntu doesn't set a root pwd. Greets pgpxpxZYdn1bI.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
El jue, 30-12-2004 a las 13:28 -0400, Derek Broughton escribiÃ: [...] > > Ubuntu installed on my Dell Inspiron right out of the box. Too bad I forgot > what I used for the root password :-) > Boot from Ubuntu Live CD or Knoppix, mount root partition on /mnt or something like that, edit /et/passwd, delete the 'x' between your user and uid. Reboot with your usual installation from HD. Your root's password should be blank now. Cheers, -- Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje =?ISO-8859-1?Q?est=E1?= firmada digitalmente
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
> Apple's operating system is not based on Linux. my mistake... bsd > > > -- > Thomas Hood > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
> >stop dreaming and start doing something > > Here, you just hit the problem on the head. Most people are not > programmers. Most people have other jobs and other interests. you don't need to be a programmer... I know almost nothing about hardware, so I'm quite useless to improve low level linux. On the other hand, I've helped with what I can do, translating documentation and even creating some documentation where I explain in real details all the way through installing linux on the laptop. So, basically, one helps as one can... > The > computer is a vehicle to get from one point to another. The computer, in > any fashion, is not the final goal. It is only a tool the same as a > hammer is used by a carpenter. a hammer, by no means, is easy. You really have to know what you are doing, otherwise you'll end up smashing some fingers or destroing the work. So even the so considered lousiest tool, demands people to know how to use it. This vehicle notion is not like a bus, that you take and somebody drives it for you... if you use something you have to know what you are doing... as an example, se the legion of commons that carry all sort of viruses and so in their computer... just because they have no idea how to use the hammer... and then, when somebody nicks their bank password, they cry. At least here in UK banks are putting some pressure to blame the careless customer on this... > I think that this is the idea that the > Linux community is going to have to embrace to get the majority of > people to switch from Microsoft. well, I fully agree with you when you say that things must get better, but I don't see myself desiring that everybody change to linux... why? I just think you should be free to choose... world domination by Torvalds or Gates is still world domination... no good at all. > But as a simple user, if they > like what they are using, then they are also advertisers without > realizing it. yep... I know... that's why I said it lacks some "humanity" from linux guys (us). But, as linux is the result of voluntary work, we rely on the existance of these voluntaries... you know... > I doubt that you will hear from me again. I have been spend a lot of my > free time experimenting with Linux systems. Other things are pressing > and requiring more of my time. that's bad to hear... but have another go in a couple of years... you might have a surprise... norton -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
it may be there, but simply did not work with me. > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 23:44:46 +0100, Mauro Darida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 at 14:07:29 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> > >> > The biggest benefit is the 2.6 kernel... which means ACPI... I could >> not >> > get ACPI with the 2.4, you have to patch etc etc >> > >> False. Latest Linus 2.4 kernels (i.e.2.4.24) do have ACPI support in >> place. >> > > > Ya' know, that's what I thought! That is why I have been wondering > why I am having problems with ACPI in 2.6.9 and above. I mean, if > it's been in there... ARGH! =( > > R/S > Ryan > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
Everybody said: > >>(Sarge comes with 14 CDs. People like me have no idea what most of those > >>programs are or how they are supposed to be used.) > > > >yeah... but download only the 2 first... that was all I needed for one of > >the laptops... the other I used a net install. But I agree that > >documentation is really bad. And Ubuntu, which is Sarge-based, only needs 1 CD (and no network). > >>I think that Knoppix is probably the best distro, but FC3 comes in right > >>afterwards, and RH9 follows that. I might have a more favorable opinion > >> of Debian if it installed correctly, if it supported more hardware out > >> of the box, if it allowed me to log in as 'Root' (Which I sometimes > >> need), and if the software on the CDs worked without corrupting the > >> operating system. Ubuntu installed on my Dell Inspiron right out of the box. Too bad I forgot what I used for the root password :-) No version of Knoppix that I've tried worked on the inspiron. > >>But as you can see, my thoughts are not limited to Debian. I feel that > >>entire Linux scene is like a toy where children get things almost done, > >>then they loose interest and try to pass the buck on to someone else. It certainly happens. > >I agree that linux lacks some humanities (hehe), like work from interface > >guys and so... but so far the linux comunity is mainly composed by > >technical guys... I think that is the main reason for the lack of > >documentation and so. The main reason for the lack of documentation is that geeks don't need no documentation. > I doubt that you will hear from me again. I have been spend a lot of my > free time experimenting with Linux systems. Other things are pressing > and requiring more of my time. No loss. Some people get hung up on "Free" and never see further than "beer". -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The installer has too many problems. Once you get to the point of cataloging your CDs, it can't find my CD ROM on any laptop. (2 Toshiba Satellites and 2 Gateway Solos) And my external CD ROM is useless with this distro. that is really strange, for I have already installed in 2 laptops and got no problem. The 1st time that I installed Debian on an 8 year old Gateway Solo, it installed fine. But I couldn't access my external SCSI CD-ROM or hard drives. I then corrupted the system with additional programs. I would also run into programs where it could not find a program on my CDs. Then I wiped the drive and tried to re-install it again using the same CDs. After the basic system was installed, it could not find my CD Rome to catalog the CDs. I gave up and installed a different version of Linux. I later came back to it, and tried to re-install Debian Sarge on this same computer. After the basic system was installed, it could not find my CD-ROM. I did manage to get everything installed and cataloged using an external CD-ROM. But the system got lost again when I went to add additional programs an could not find the external CD ROM. Frustrated, I wiped it again. Afterwards, attempts to install Sarge or Woody resulted in the basic system being installed, but unable to find the CD-ROMs on any of the computer. I tried re-burning the same download, and re-downloading all 14 CDs. I always got the same result with any computer. Also, I couldn't get my external CD ROM to work with the installer afterwards. Different computers. Different CD ROMs. Different CDs. Different downloads. Different versions of the software. Same result. I gave up. On the computer which I had Sarge installed on, I could not access any SCSI devices, which I had several of. It also seemed to easy to corrupt the system by installing the wrong program from one of the downloaded CDs. again... never found it... (Sarge comes with 14 CDs. People like me have no idea what most of those programs are or how they are supposed to be used.) yeah... but download only the 2 first... that was all I needed for one of the laptops... the other I used a net install. But I agree that documentation is really bad. I think that Knoppix is probably the best distro, but FC3 comes in right afterwards, and RH9 follows that. I might have a more favorable opinion of Debian if it installed correctly, if it supported more hardware out of the box, if it allowed me to log in as 'Root' (Which I sometimes need), and if the software on the CDs worked without corrupting the operating system. I understand your point, for these are precisely the reasons why I gave up Fedora... it did not recognize half of my hardware. It could not even switch off my laptop... with debian it was REALLY smooth... so, I guess we were unlucky with some distros But as you can see, my thoughts are not limited to Debian. I feel that entire Linux scene is like a toy where children get things almost done, then they loose interest and try to pass the buck on to someone else. we know it is not like that... those guys are working for peanuts, and are doing a bloody good job. Even Aple is using linux, and they have many good guys working for them... so it is not like this. I agree that linux lacks some humanities (hehe), like work from interface guys and so... but so far the linux comunity is mainly composed by technical guys... I think that is the main reason for the lack of documentation and so. When I was writing some shareware programs in the 1980's, documentation was always part of the program. The only people who were writing programs without documentation were the people who were employed in a corporate setting. In that case, the programs were simply in-house and they passed the information around. It appears the the inmates have escaped, or they have been training others in bad habits. Plus, I really think that seeing linux as a service provider is wrong. I think it is against its ideas. The thing that I like the most in linux is that if I hate something, I change that something and make it better... is it perfect? Well, if we were earning as much as the M$ guys it might be closer to that... but considering everything, no, it is not perfect, but it is unfair to label it as a child work. >From my limited viewpoint, it appears that a majority of the software for Linux is directed towards the corporate IT community. This is the complete opposite of the programs written in the 1980's on DOS machines by home users for home users. As for my opinion of "Child's work", every distro of any version of Linux comes with a lot of simple games. If Microsoft had only built computers for entertainment, it would not be where it is today. As for high in the Microsoft world, there are lots of people who make a living from selling a couple good programs which run o
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
Ryan D'Baisse wrote: > 1. Woody versus Sarge. Any idea when Sarge will be released? Any day now. If you had asked that question six months ago the answer would have been any day now too. :-/ > Any major benefits over Woody? Yes. Every release will almost always have many benefits and many advocates for it over the previous release. > 2. It sounds as if I am going to have to get comfy with compiling the > kernel, regardless of which distro I'm on. If you need a special driver then yes you will need to compile your own kernel. > Are there any texts out there similar to "Compiling the Kernel for > Dummies?" You will want to read this guid. http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/system/kernel-pkg.html The entire newbiedoc guide here is worth reading. http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/ > My biggest fear is disabling something that some other piece will > need - OR - enabling something that some other module will have a > conflict with. It would be great to have something that detailed > each, and every, possible option available. Any suggestions? Start with a copy of an official distro kernel config file. That will get you going with something reasonable. Then modify the parts that you need. > 3. Several people have referred to kernel 2.6, which is great, but I > am wondering about the release. I am currently on Fedora and using > kernel 2.6.5-1.358 and it works well for me. My problems began when I > allowed yum to install kernel 2.6.9-1.6_FC2. That's when all of my > ACPI problems began. How can I tell what version of the kernel > "woody" ships with? Woody ships with a very old but very stable linux-2.4.18. That might be too old for your new hardware. It is easiest to run the 2.6 kernel from sarge. You seem to have a common misconception. That the kernel requires a particular distro. But for any given distro you can run any one of a number of kernels. Just like anything else on the system you can mix and match as you need. For kernels in particular you can have many in /boot. If one does not work then just boot the previous kernel. Or one of the others as you desire. Bob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 23:44:46 +0100, Mauro Darida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 at 14:07:29 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > The biggest benefit is the 2.6 kernel... which means ACPI... I could not > > get ACPI with the 2.4, you have to patch etc etc > > > False. Latest Linus 2.4 kernels (i.e.2.4.24) do have ACPI support in > place. > Ya' know, that's what I thought! That is why I have been wondering why I am having problems with ACPI in 2.6.9 and above. I mean, if it's been in there... ARGH! =( R/S Ryan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 at 14:07:29 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > The biggest benefit is the 2.6 kernel... which means ACPI... I could not > get ACPI with the 2.4, you have to patch etc etc > False. Latest Linus 2.4 kernels (i.e.2.4.24) do have ACPI support in place. -- On this laptop no Windows system survives and LINUX POWER reigns UNLIMITED. Successfully Microsoft free since December 2002. GnuPG key ID: 28A61681 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 at 17:20:53 +, Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote: > > I think the default kernel in woody is some old 2.2 kernel! (Yeah it's really > that old!) You really should consider installing sarge instead. It is not far > from being released as stable. Sarge will let you choose between a 2.4 and a > 2.6 kernel, the particular version used will be obvious during the install > process. > Although woody has 2.2 kernel as default, you can choose the 2.4.18 version. Read the installation manual. -- On this laptop no Windows system survives and LINUX POWER reigns UNLIMITED. Successfully Microsoft free since December 2002. GnuPG key ID: 28A61681 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Saturday 25 December 2004 22:38, Tim Ebenezer wrote: > | 5. And, finally, my biggest problem, and one of the reasons I am > | looking to leave Fedora, is ACPI. I have to bypass it with later > | versions of the FC2 kernel and with the base install of FC3. And, > | unfortunately, there are problems with my NIC if I bypass it. How > | tightly integrated is ACPI with Debian? Any chance I can get away > | from these issues by switching from Fedora to Debian. > > I don't use ACPI - no problems. > Hope this helps a little I shouldn't think so. If he had problems because of ACPI (and many of us need to use ACPI) they're very unlikely to be solved by moving to Debian. -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:30:06 +0100, norton wrote: >> It also seemed to easy to corrupt >> the system by installing the wrong program from one of the downloaded CDs. That is less likely to happen with Debian than with any other distro, if you are using apt. >> (Sarge comes with 14 CDs. People like me have no idea what most of those >> programs are or how they are supposed to be used.) > > yeah... but download only the 2 first... that was all I needed for one of > the laptops... the other I used a net install. But I agree that > documentation is really bad. People are working on this: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/ Please take into account that Debian is by far the largest distribution. >> I think that Knoppix is probably the best distro, but FC3 comes in right >> afterwards, and RH9 follows that. I might have a more favorable opinion of >> Debian if it installed correctly, if it supported more hardware out of the >> box, if it allowed me to log in as 'Root' (Which I sometimes need), and if >> the software on the CDs worked without corrupting the operating system. Of course you can log in as root. The new installer is much improved and is being widely tested. It will never work perfectly for everyone, however. >> But as you can see, my thoughts are not limited to Debian. I feel that >> entire Linux scene is like a toy where children get things almost done, >> then they loose interest and try to pass the buck on to someone else. Yes, that is often what happens. Furthermore, Debian's social structure does not promote collaborative maintenance as much as it could and should. The result is that some Debian packages are buggy and out of date. > we know it is not like that... those guys are working for peanuts, and are > doing a bloody good job. Even Aple is using linux, and they have many good > guys working for them... so it is not like this. Apple's operating system is not based on Linux. -- Thomas Hood -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
> The > installer has too many problems. Once you get to the point of cataloging > your CDs, it can't find my CD ROM on any laptop. (2 Toshiba Satellites and > 2 Gateway Solos) And my external CD ROM is useless with this distro. that is really strange, for I have already installed in 2 laptops and got no problem. > On the computer which I had Sarge installed on, I could not access any > SCSI devices, which I had several of. It also seemed to easy to corrupt > the system by installing the wrong program from one of the downloaded CDs. again... never found it... > (Sarge comes with 14 CDs. People like me have no idea what most of those > programs are or how they are supposed to be used.) yeah... but download only the 2 first... that was all I needed for one of the laptops... the other I used a net install. But I agree that documentation is really bad. > I think that Knoppix is probably the best distro, but FC3 comes in right > afterwards, and RH9 follows that. I might have a more favorable opinion of > Debian if it installed correctly, if it supported more hardware out of the > box, if it allowed me to log in as 'Root' (Which I sometimes need), and if > the software on the CDs worked without corrupting the operating system. I understand your point, for these are precisely the reasons why I gave up Fedora... it did not recognize half of my hardware. It could not even switch off my laptop... with debian it was REALLY smooth... so, I guess we were unlucky with some distros > But as you can see, my thoughts are not limited to Debian. I feel that > entire Linux scene is like a toy where children get things almost done, > then they loose interest and try to pass the buck on to someone else. we know it is not like that... those guys are working for peanuts, and are doing a bloody good job. Even Aple is using linux, and they have many good guys working for them... so it is not like this. I agree that linux lacks some humanities (hehe), like work from interface guys and so... but so far the linux comunity is mainly composed by technical guys... I think that is the main reason for the lack of documentation and so. Plus, I really think that seeing linux as a service provider is wrong. I think it is against its ideas. The thing that I like the most in linux is that if I hate something, I change that something and make it better... is it perfect? Well, if we were earning as much as the M$ guys it might be closer to that... but considering everything, no, it is not perfect, but it is unfair to label it as a child work. And if you worked with potato, woody and sarge, RH6, RH7... RH9, FC1 and FC2, you will see an improvement. Geez, potato would make you cry... it was a nightmare to install a network on RH6... today it is easier... Things are improving... but here is my personal advice: wake up! stop dreaming and start doing something ;-). That is precisely the linux idea. Cheers norton -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. I do not want my machine to be a sandbox for other developers. I do not want to update my machine only to find that something has been changed or is now broken. Hence, my reason for being on FC2 with an outdated kernel for so long. It works;; well, I must say taht I run debian sarge in a laptop and everything works... and I even have an apache server running (I know, I know... pretty stupid at first glance, but it really made my life easier) 3. I do not necessarily need the most bleeding edge software. In wait until it's fully baked; and, I pretty much think like that... that's why I'm still waiting for the new X to become a .deb 4. I want a distro with a solid developer and user community backing it. Well, it seems that both fedora and debian fill in... I am the typical M$ developer, in the process of moving to Linux. good to hear that 8-) I need to be able to concentrate first on understanding the underlying OS and to be able to code for it. I would rather do this on a stable platform so if something breaks, that I did it. well, debian has been really stable in my laptop... although sometimes some sites destroy my mozilla and bring down X with it... cool... but I guess that has nothing to do with debian... As I write this, and read what I am writing, I am quite tempted to go and pay for Red Hat WS. However, I just cannot bring myself to do that so easily. The last time I paid them money was for a retail copy of RH9 only to find out two weeks later that they killed it off for Fedora. I started my linux life with debian potato. Then, I had to give away my computer and got one from the university. It was running RH9. As I said before, I've installed FC1 and FC2 in my laptop and had some problems... then I moved back to debian and everything is fine... I noticed that you had some concern about compiling the kernel... I DID not have to compile the kernel so far, but my modem is a winmoden and in order to get the driver, I'll have to compile it... but I'd have to do it anyway in any distro... My advice is go for deb... it really worked with me... P.S. As you are a developer, I think I should tell you that the C++ version of Kylix sucks! In each and every distro! So be prepared for it. Your thoughts? Thanx, Ryan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've played with some of the distros out there. (Debian Woody and Sarge, Slackware 10.0, RH9, FC2, FC3, FreeBSD 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.2.1, 5.3, Knoppix, SUSE 9.0 and 9.1, Morpix) I've pretty much given up on Debian. The installer has too many problems. Once you get to the point of cataloging your CDs, it can't find my CD ROM on any laptop. (2 Toshiba Satellites and 2 Gateway Solos) And my external CD ROM is useless with this distro. I actually did get Sarge installed on an 8 year old Gateway Solo laptop once. But after formatting the hard drive, and re-partitioning it while experimenting with another system, I could not repeat the install process with Woody or Sarge on the same computer. On the computer which I had Sarge installed on, I could not access any SCSI devices, which I had several of. It also seemed to easy to corrupt the system by installing the wrong program from one of the downloaded CDs. It would also loose track of it's installation source (The CD ROM) and not be able to find it. I finally came to a point of giving up on Debian when it would not install correctly on a 2 year old Toshiba Satellite. The installer had the same problems on this computer. As for Fedora Core? FC3 runs well on my 2 year old Toshiba. FC3 is a big step up from FC2, but it still has a few bugs. (Which doesn't appear to be uncommon with any version of Linux) It runs slow on my 8 year old Gateway Solo. RH9 runs better on the 8 year old Gateway. My thoughts in general, Linux and FreeBSD has been a year long frustrating experiment. The different versions of Linux and BSD have good qualities. But there doesn't seem to be any follow-through to completion. Everything gets re-directed in mid-stream to a new idea. And the computer people who are writing these programs don't even know how to explain what is happening with their programs to a non-geck. Documentation is a joke. (Sarge comes with 14 CDs. People like me have no idea what most of those programs are or how they are supposed to be used.) Everything refers to another document, which may or may not exist. Or the other document is completely outdated. I think that Red Hat did have the best documentation, but that disappeared with Fedora. I think that Knoppix is probably the best distro, but FC3 comes in right afterwards, and RH9 follows that. I might have a more favorable opinion of Debian if it installed correctly, if it supported more hardware out of
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
> 2. I do not want my machine to be a sandbox for other developers. I > do not want to update my machine only to find that something has been > changed or is now broken. Hence, my reason for being on FC2 with an > outdated kernel for so long. It works;; well, I must say taht I run debian sarge in a laptop and everything works... and I even have an apache server running (I know, I know... pretty stupid at first glance, but it really made my life easier) > 3. I do not necessarily need the most bleeding edge software. In wait > until it's fully baked; and, I pretty much think like that... that's why I'm still waiting for the new X to become a .deb > 4. I want a distro with a solid developer and user community backing it. Well, it seems that both fedora and debian fill in... > I am the typical M$ developer, in the process of moving to Linux. good to hear that 8-) > I > need to be able to concentrate first on understanding the underlying > OS and to be able to code for it. I would rather do this on a stable > platform so if something breaks, that I did it. well, debian has been really stable in my laptop... although sometimes some sites destroy my mozilla and bring down X with it... cool... but I guess that has nothing to do with debian... > As I write this, and read what I am writing, I am quite tempted to go > and pay for Red Hat WS. However, I just cannot bring myself to do > that so easily. The last time I paid them money was for a retail copy > of RH9 only to find out two weeks later that they killed it off for > Fedora. I started my linux life with debian potato. Then, I had to give away my computer and got one from the university. It was running RH9. As I said before, I've installed FC1 and FC2 in my laptop and had some problems... then I moved back to debian and everything is fine... I noticed that you had some concern about compiling the kernel... I DID not have to compile the kernel so far, but my modem is a winmoden and in order to get the driver, I'll have to compile it... but I'd have to do it anyway in any distro... My advice is go for deb... it really worked with me... P.S. As you are a developer, I think I should tell you that the C++ version of Kylix sucks! In each and every distro! So be prepared for it. > > Your thoughts? > > Thanx, > Ryan > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sunday 26 December 2004 02:58 pm, Ryan D'Baisse wrote: > On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:10:56 +0100, Thomas Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Choose Debian if you want freedom, modularity, APT, and attention to > > technical detail. Choose Libranet or Ubuntu if you want all of the > > above plus easier installation and configuration, minus some freedom. > > Choose RedHat if you want to use what the majority of corporate users of > > GNU/Linux are using. > > All excellent points. What I am looking for in a distro is simple: > > 1. I want a Linux-based kernel and I do not mind paying for it; > > 2. I do not want my machine to be a sandbox for other developers. I > do not want to update my machine only to find that something has been > changed or is now broken. Hence, my reason for being on FC2 with an > outdated kernel for so long. It works;; > > 3. I do not necessarily need the most bleeding edge software. In wait > until it's fully baked; and, > > 4. I want a distro with a solid developer and user community backing it. > > I am the typical M$ developer, in the process of moving to Linux. I > need to be able to concentrate first on understanding the underlying > OS and to be able to code for it. I would rather do this on a stable > platform so if something breaks, that I did it. > > As I write this, and read what I am writing, I am quite tempted to go > and pay for Red Hat WS. However, I just cannot bring myself to do > that so easily. The last time I paid them money was for a retail copy > of RH9 only to find out two weeks later that they killed it off for > Fedora. > > Your thoughts? > > Thanx, > Ryan Hi Ryan, If you dont need any multimedia applications that are up to date and do not need the easy installer, and look for a very (rock) stable distro for writing code, I would go with Debian Woody. With that you will never have a broken package experience, etc. You can write your codes in peace. If you however want to have a better user experience, multimedia, etc etc, I would go with the NEW Sarge and it's installer. That is what I use on my laptop as I write and is a very reliable thing. I wouldnt go with woody on a workstation or laptop, as it offers very little on the entertainment side. I also have SID on my workstation, but that does brake from time to time. Woody, I have on my server, and is reliable as nothing else. I cannot complain. I run APACHE and PROFTPD on it, SSH etc, and servers me perfectly. Knoppix I know, and do not prefer. It takes the Adventure out of linux in my opinion. Ben
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:10:56 +0100, Thomas Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Choose Debian if you want freedom, modularity, APT, and attention to > technical detail. Choose Libranet or Ubuntu if you want all of the > above plus easier installation and configuration, minus some freedom. > Choose RedHat if you want to use what the majority of corporate users of > GNU/Linux are using. > All excellent points. What I am looking for in a distro is simple: 1. I want a Linux-based kernel and I do not mind paying for it; 2. I do not want my machine to be a sandbox for other developers. I do not want to update my machine only to find that something has been changed or is now broken. Hence, my reason for being on FC2 with an outdated kernel for so long. It works;; 3. I do not necessarily need the most bleeding edge software. In wait until it's fully baked; and, 4. I want a distro with a solid developer and user community backing it. I am the typical M$ developer, in the process of moving to Linux. I need to be able to concentrate first on understanding the underlying OS and to be able to code for it. I would rather do this on a stable platform so if something breaks, that I did it. As I write this, and read what I am writing, I am quite tempted to go and pay for Red Hat WS. However, I just cannot bring myself to do that so easily. The last time I paid them money was for a retail copy of RH9 only to find out two weeks later that they killed it off for Fedora. Your thoughts? Thanx, Ryan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 03:30:07 +0100, Ryan D'Baisse wrote: > 3. My primary machine is a laptop (Toshiba 5005-S507). Most of the > info I can find on Google, pertaining to laptops, is for Fedora or > Mandrake. How well does Debian handle laptops? If you have a laptop then there is no distribution of GNU/Linux that doesn't give you headaches once in a while. Debian is no worse than the others, overall, and is possibly somewhat better in some ways. However, you do have to educate yourself to solve the problems that arise. One way in which Debian is different is in its poverty of wizard type programs, compared with other distros. > 4. My second biggest problem on Fedora was/is wireless support. I am > currently using FC2 with Linuxant's DriverLoader software on my > Linksys WPC54G PCMCIA NIC. Be honest; am I going to be crying if I > try to set this up? No. Take reassurance from the fact that Debian is one of the major GNU/Linux distributions and it has a lot of capable people working on it. While some things will not work without effort, it is generally true that with some effort, and with the help of many excellent tools developed for Debian, you can achieve your goal. > 5. And, finally, my biggest problem, and one of the reasons I am > looking to leave Fedora, is ACPI. I have to bypass it with later > versions of the FC2 kernel and with the base install of FC3. And, > unfortunately, there are problems with my NIC if I bypass it. How > tightly integrated is ACPI with Debian? In a sense, it isn't integrated at all. Debian is highly modular. > Any chance I can get away > from these issues by switching from Fedora to Debian. I don't think that you should switch from one distribution to another in order to solve a single problem like this. Debian has its own weaknesses and Fedora is an excellent distribution; many capable people are working on it including many of the Linux hackers. Choose Debian if you want freedom, modularity, APT, and attention to technical detail. Choose Libranet or Ubuntu if you want all of the above plus easier installation and configuration, minus some freedom. Choose RedHat if you want to use what the majority of corporate users of GNU/Linux are using. -- Thomas Hood -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sunday 26 December 2004 16:49, Ryan D'Baisse wrote: > 1. Woody versus Sarge. Any idea when Sarge will be released? Any > major benefits over Woody? Sarge, and I believe I speak for everyone. The new installer is just such an improvement over the woody installer (which is hopeless in comparison really..). And you will have much less trouble with modern hardware. > 2. It sounds as if I am going to have to get comfy with compiling the > kernel, regardless of which distro I'm on. Are there any texts out Well. There are still a lot of pigheaded hardware manufacturers out there who insist on not supporting linux, therefore you will often find that in order to have the latest drivers, it requires you to recompile the kernel. On the other hand the vanilla kernel will get you up and running without any problems, but some things may not work. > there similar to "Compiling the Kernel for Dummies?" My biggest fear > is disabling something that some other piece will need - OR - enabling > something that some other module will have a conflict with. It would > be great to have something that detailed each, and every, possible > option available. Any suggestions? Well.. It's tough.. The best advice I can give is to read each and every help item in the kernel configuration menu (during 'make menuconfig'). Most mistakes will amount to not including a particular driver into the kernel which is needed during boot, such as the IDE driver for instance. With grub, the worst thing that can happen is that your new kernel won't boot, but then you can just select the old kernel from the grub startup menu, and you will be back to the way things were before. One thing you can do is to install the precompiled 2.6.x kernel image, which should boot fine, and then have a look at what drivers are loaded with the lsmod command. That will give you a hint about what drivers are needed. > 3. Several people have referred to kernel 2.6, which is great, but I > am wondering about the release. I am currently on Fedora and using > kernel 2.6.5-1.358 and it works well for me. My problems began when I > allowed yum to install kernel 2.6.9-1.6_FC2. That's when all of my > ACPI problems began. How can I tell what version of the kernel > "woody" ships with? I think the default kernel in woody is some old 2.2 kernel! (Yeah it's really that old!) You really should consider installing sarge instead. It is not far from being released as stable. Sarge will let you choose between a 2.4 and a 2.6 kernel, the particular version used will be obvious during the install process. Anders E. Andersen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
> 1. Woody versus Sarge. Any idea when Sarge will be released? Any > major benefits over Woody? No idea about the release... The biggest benefit is the 2.6 kernel... which means ACPI... I could not get ACPI with the 2.4, you have to patch etc etc > 2. It sounds as if I am going to have to get comfy with compiling the > kernel, regardless of which distro I'm on. Are there any texts out > there similar to "Compiling the Kernel for Dummies?" My biggest fear > is disabling something that some other piece will need - OR - enabling > something that some other module will have a conflict with. It would > be great to have something that detailed each, and every, possible > option available. Any suggestions? sorry... only the link you were already provided by some other reply (http://www.desktop-linux.net/debkernel.htm)... but to keep the old stuff, you have to keep the .config from the old kernel... in my distro is /boot/config-2.6.3-1-386 so, you have to do: cp /boot/config-2.6.3-1-386 /usr/src/kernel-source-2.6.3/.config > 3. Several people have referred to kernel 2.6, which is great, but I > am wondering about the release. I am currently on Fedora and using > kernel 2.6.5-1.358 and it works well for me. My problems began when I > allowed yum to install kernel 2.6.9-1.6_FC2. That's when all of my > ACPI problems began. How can I tell what version of the kernel > "woody" ships with? good question... usually I look in the website for kernel... I know that sarge keeps on updating the kernel, day after day, but you can always download some older version and install with apt-get. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
Thanks for all of the responses! So far, Debian folks sure are helpful! =) I have a few more questions, if that's okay... 1. Woody versus Sarge. Any idea when Sarge will be released? Any major benefits over Woody? 2. It sounds as if I am going to have to get comfy with compiling the kernel, regardless of which distro I'm on. Are there any texts out there similar to "Compiling the Kernel for Dummies?" My biggest fear is disabling something that some other piece will need - OR - enabling something that some other module will have a conflict with. It would be great to have something that detailed each, and every, possible option available. Any suggestions? 3. Several people have referred to kernel 2.6, which is great, but I am wondering about the release. I am currently on Fedora and using kernel 2.6.5-1.358 and it works well for me. My problems began when I allowed yum to install kernel 2.6.9-1.6_FC2. That's when all of my ACPI problems began. How can I tell what version of the kernel "woody" ships with? Thanks again for all of your responses. It is really appreciated. Thanx, Ryan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Saturday 25 December 2004 09:21 pm, Ryan D'Baisse wrote: > I am looking to move from FC2 to Debian, but have questions... > > 2. I have been reading two books, "Linux Pocket Guide," by O'Reilly, > and "Beginning Linux Programming," by Wrox. Both tend to stress Red > Hat and Fedora. Will these books still be of use to me on Debian? > > 3. My primary machine is a laptop (Toshiba 5005-S507). Most of the > info I can find on Google, pertaining to laptops, is for Fedora or > Mandrake. How well does Debian handle laptops? Any URLs would be > GREATLY appreciated. http://www.debian.org/doc/ http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=debian+laptop&btnG=Google+Search http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=debian%20laptop&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wg > > > Thanks, in advance, to anyone who chooses to respond. Again, I have > tried looking, but keep coming up with tons of info for Fedora and > Mandrake. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanx, > Ryan I would recommend trying Knoppix, Mepis or some other bootable Debian based distro so that you can see how it looks before installing it. http://www.knoppix.net/ http://www.mepis.org/book/view/1462 -- peace, Alvin Smith http://www.alvinsmith.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 09:15:00 +0100 Anders Ellenshøj Andersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > /usr/src# dpkg -i kernel-image-2.*** Hm... I need to run update-grub manually here. Maybe it's different when you have a system updated from woody as if you installed sarge from scratch? Like I still have a static /etc/resolv.conf and things like that... Never mind. Just check /boot/grub/menu.lst. Saves you one reboot and therefore one minute (just takes 20 secs to boot) :) > /usr/src# reboot > > - Quit screwing around. Reboot NOW! > > - Hope it works.. pgpajEFIsX0Nz.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sunday 26 December 2004 07:58, you wrote: > > Huh? Don't you mean apt-get install kernel-package? > > > > There is no make-kpkg package. > > No, it's called "kernel-package", but there is such a command, and it's > damned useful to use to build customised kernel packages. That's what I wrote, just two lines above. Time for a cup of coffee? :-) > > I would recommend you use aptitude to get both kernel-package and > > kernel-source at the same time. Then you can unpack it like you describe, > > configure it and make it. Then use dpkg -i to install. > > Nope, using make-kpkg is more flexible than that - by a long shot, and Well last time I checked, make-kpkg will not install the package for you. It just makes one. You need dpkg to install it. Here is a step by step guide which matches what I do: > su - root - Become root. Stop for a moment and enjoy the feeling. # aptitude - Select "kernel-package", "module-init-tools" and "kernel-source-2.***" (use '/' to seach for them, module-init-tools may already be installed..) - Press g to install - Quit aptitude (press q) # cd /usr/src /usr/src# tar xfj kernel-source-2.*** - Wait for it to unpack. /usr/src# ln -s kernel-source-2.*** linux - Not needed but is convenient. /usr/src# cd linux /usr/src/linux# make menuconfig - Configure your kernel. Default options should be safe. When you get the hang of it, you can remove stuff you don't need, like pci hotplug and scsi drivers and other stuff. Save the config when you are done. /usr/src/linux# make-kpkg kernel-image - Lean back and enjoy the show. Have a soft drink.. /usr/src/linux# cd .. /usr/src# dpkg -i kernel-image-2.*** /usr/src# reboot - Quit screwing around. Reboot NOW! - Hope it works.. Anders E. Andersen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 05:28 pm, Andrew McMillan wrote: > No, it's called "kernel-package", but there is such a command, and it's > damned useful to use to build customised kernel packages. have a look at: http://www.desktop-linux.net/debkernel.htm a useful howto on doing a kernel (2.6 in this case) the debian way(tm, pat pend, etc etc;) ) hohothing, r:) -- Romana Branden Sticks & stones may break my bones, but words can break my heart.. ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/ ITShare SA gives away computer systems created from donated hardware and opensource software. pgpxuhEWqwf5O.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 07:25 +0100, Anders EllenshÃj Andersen wrote: > On Sunday 26 December 2004 06:40, Tim Ebenezer wrote: > > Hi Again, > > > I built my kernel from source without it. Debian has a very unique great > > way of installing a kernel. First apt-get kernel-source-2.6.x (x being > > Shouldn't that be apt-get install kernel-source-2.6.x? > > > the version you want), then go to /usr/src, and usr tar -xvjf to untar > > the source file, then go into the directory, apt-get install make-kpkg, > > Huh? Don't you mean apt-get install kernel-package? > > There is no make-kpkg package. No, it's called "kernel-package", but there is such a command, and it's damned useful to use to build customised kernel packages. $ apt-cache show kernel-package Package: kernel-package Priority: optional Section: misc Installed-Size: 1268 Maintainer: Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Architecture: all Version: 8.117 Depends: perl, dpkg (>= 1.4), dpkg-dev (>= 1.4.0.9), gcc | c-compiler, make Recommends: libc6-dev | libc-dev Suggests: kernel-source, libdb3-dev, libncurses-dev, docbook-utils Filename: pool/main/k/kernel-package/kernel-package_8.117_all.deb Size: 348468 MD5sum: e61f198598c80444e418f58b41522cb1 Description: A utility for building Linux kernel related Debian packages. This package provides the capability to create a debian kernel-image package by just running make-kpkg kernel_image in a kernel source directory tree. It can also package the relevant kernel headers into a kernel-headers package. In general, this package is very useful if you need to create a custom kernel, if, for example, the default kernel does not support some of your hardware, or you wish a leaner, meaner kernel. It also scripts the steps that need be taken to compile the kernel, which is quite convenient (forgetting a crucial step once was the initial motivation for this package). Please look at /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/Rationale.gz for a full list of advantages of this package. . If you are running on an intel x86 platform, and you wish to compile a custom kernel (why else are you considering this package?), then you may need the package bin86 as well. (This is not required on other platforms). > I would recommend you use aptitude to get both kernel-package and > kernel-source at the same time. Then you can unpack it like you describe, > configure it and make it. Then use dpkg -i to install. Nope, using make-kpkg is more flexible than that - by a long shot, and not least when it comes to needing modules from another package built and installed as Debian packages alongside your own build. Merry Xmas, Andrew McMillan. - Andrew @ Catalyst .Net .NZ Ltd, PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington WEB: http://catalyst.net.nz/PHYS: Level 2, 150-154 Willis St DDI: +64(4)803-2201 MOB: +64(272)DEBIAN OFFICE: +64(4)499-2267 A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds -- Shaw - signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
On Sunday 26 December 2004 06:40, Tim Ebenezer wrote: > Hi Again, > I built my kernel from source without it. Debian has a very unique great > way of installing a kernel. First apt-get kernel-source-2.6.x (x being Shouldn't that be apt-get install kernel-source-2.6.x? > the version you want), then go to /usr/src, and usr tar -xvjf to untar > the source file, then go into the directory, apt-get install make-kpkg, Huh? Don't you mean apt-get install kernel-package? There is no make-kpkg package. > then configure the kernel using make menuconfig (it'll give you a menu > where you can select options), then use make-kpkg, to build a kernel > package, once it's done - do cd .., and then apt-get install > kernel-image-2.6.x-whatever.. and it'll be in grub when you reboot.. Huh? Don't you mean dpkg -i kernel-image-whatever? I would recommend you use aptitude to get both kernel-package and kernel-source at the same time. Then you can unpack it like you describe, configure it and make it. Then use dpkg -i to install. Anders -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Again, Ryan D'Baisse wrote: | I have looked there and they do have mine listed. Unfortunately, the | walk-through is for Fedora and RH9. Not knowing much about the | differences, I was not too sure how much of it would apply to Debian. Peripheral drivers is the big deal - and XFree configs; if it has sufficient info for that, I assume, it'll be fine. | I tried using ndiswrapper with Fedora and did not have much success. | Mind if I ask what NIC you are using? Broadcom Wireless. Ndiswrapper is easy to build from source - just simple ./configure && make && make install, then use ndiswrapper -i /path/to/driver.inf | How did you elect not to use it? I mean, in Fedora the only choice I | had was to either use it OR download a vanilla kernel and start adding | to it. Since I don't know SQUAT about the kernel, I opted to simply | go back to an early version of FC2. I built my kernel from source without it. Debian has a very unique great way of installing a kernel. First apt-get kernel-source-2.6.x (x being the version you want), then go to /usr/src, and usr tar -xvjf to untar the source file, then go into the directory, apt-get install make-kpkg, then configure the kernel using make menuconfig (it'll give you a menu where you can select options), then use make-kpkg, to build a kernel package, once it's done - do cd .., and then apt-get install kernel-image-2.6.x-whatever.. and it'll be in grub when you reboot.. | Interesting. I used apt-get with RH until they started pushing yum on | Fedora. Honestly, I liked apt-get much better. Debian is built on apt, works great. | I'm using VMWare myself. I'm actually a M$ developer that is jumping | ship. So, VMWare keeps me supporting my customers while I move to | Linux. I have one product that I develop on Windows - and that's why I use VMware - Win4lin might be a better alternative, a LOT faster. I don't have Windows installed on my computer anymore - and it does everything I want. - -- Tim Ebenezer [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBzk7dEB6ldf04qpcRArOtAKCGkKjjFbwhgjiZZYBu9iHh7HuMqgCfZMtd MyxYFczNlploislLZ5P+Ktk= =OG16 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops [*faked-from*][heur]
Hi Ryan, Have you considered a Debian based derivative? I would wholeheartedly recommend Libranet GNU/Linux - http://www.libranet.com/. Current version is Libranet 2.8.1, but this is getting a bit old in the tooth these days, at 18 months old and it is also 100% compatible with Debian. The fine fellows at Libranet (Jon & Tal) have provided the means via a "safe update archive" to bring 2.8.1 more up to date, and it's easily doable to install from both Debian Sarge and Sid sources. At the moment at home (i'm holidaying at my parents place at the moment, forced to use Windows *sigh*) i'm running KDE 3.3.2 (well all of the KDE 3.3.2 metapackages that were available as of 4 days ago), Gnome 2.8, XFCE 4.2 rc2, OpenOffice 1.1.3, Gimp 2.2 and various other applications and desktop environments. Mostly pretty easily upgraded courtesy of the Debian repositories. Libranet GNU/Linux offers other areas - ease of installation with their installer (about on par with the Sarge installer i'd say - and remember this installer is near 18 months old now), adminmenu (sort of like Suses YAST but without the bells and whistles), fine support from Jon & Tal, and excellent help via the Libranet User Forums (the best i've honestly seen in many years of using GNU/Linux distributions). In fact, even given the age i'd rate Libranet as the best, and i've used a lot of distributions before switching to Libranet. You may want to read my review here: http://www.desktopos.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=28 The areas of weakness of Libranet 2.8.1 are with wi-fi setup/installation etc. Better, 2.8.1 is now available as a free download, no gimmicks, no crap, no time expiration. The free downloadable version is exactly the same as the one I paid for. Even better, is that Libranet 3 is only just around the corner after a fair time of development by Jon & Tal. The Libranet 3 beta is due by the end of December 2004 (ie in a few days!!!), and hopefully should be released by the end of January. I've heard no real information yet on what it will contain, but as one of the beta testers for Libranet I think it will be grand. Of course I am NOT allowed (or going to) post details of the content of Libranet 3 or screenshots etc until it's final release. That's only a matter of courtesy to the hard working folks at Libranet. And good manners. Dave W Pastern - Original Message - From: "Ryan D'Baisse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops [*faked-from*][heur] My apologies for x-posting this. I originally posted it to debian-users and THEN noticed that there was a group specifically for laptops. It won't happen again. _ I am looking to move from FC2 to Debian, but have questions... 1. I am still a Linux newbie. Most of the install issues, both with the OS and with applications, have been taken care of for me with the slick install wizard and the RPM-based installations. How much of a learning curve would one be faced with from Fedora to Debian? 2. I have been reading two books, "Linux Pocket Guide," by O'Reilly, and "Beginning Linux Programming," by Wrox. Both tend to stress Red Hat and Fedora. Will these books still be of use to me on Debian? 3. My primary machine is a laptop (Toshiba 5005-S507). Most of the info I can find on Google, pertaining to laptops, is for Fedora or Mandrake. How well does Debian handle laptops? Any URLs would be GREATLY appreciated. 4. My second biggest problem on Fedora was/is wireless support. I am currently using FC2 with Linuxant's DriverLoader software on my Linksys WPC54G PCMCIA NIC. Be honest; am I going to be crying if I try to set this up? 5. And, finally, my biggest problem, and one of the reasons I am looking to leave Fedora, is ACPI. I have to bypass it with later versions of the FC2 kernel and with the base install of FC3. And, unfortunately, there are problems with my NIC if I bypass it. How tightly integrated is ACPI with Debian? Any chance I can get away from these issues by switching from Fedora to Debian. Thanks, in advance, to anyone who chooses to respond. Again, I have tried looking, but keep coming up with tons of info for Fedora and Mandrake. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanx, Ryan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
Howdy I installed FC1 in my laptop... had problems... installed FC2, had problems... installed Debian Sarge... no problem ;-) > 1. I am still a Linux newbie. Most of the install issues, both with > the OS and with applications, have been taken care of for me with the > slick install wizard and the RPM-based installations. How much of a > learning curve would one be faced with from Fedora to Debian? Well, apt-get install does miracles... much better than in fedora, although you can use synaptics in FC. The installation is nice with the new installer that come with sarge... but not even close to fedora. fedora is better-looking, but not much easier. > 2. I have been reading two books, "Linux Pocket Guide," by O'Reilly, > and "Beginning Linux Programming," by Wrox. Both tend to stress Red > Hat and Fedora. Will these books still be of use to me on Debian? Probably not. You'll face differences on where the hell the system stores the XYZ file... but this is easy to get from the web. > 3. My primary machine is a laptop (Toshiba 5005-S507). Most of the > info I can find on Google, pertaining to laptops, is for Fedora or > Mandrake. How well does Debian handle laptops? Any URLs would be > GREATLY appreciated. try this: http://tuxmobil.org/toshiba.html there are some similar to yours with debian (labeled only linux) > 4. My second biggest problem on Fedora was/is wireless support. I am > currently using FC2 with Linuxant's DriverLoader software on my > Linksys WPC54G PCMCIA NIC. Be honest; am I going to be crying if I > try to set this up? sorry... never tried in debian > 5. And, finally, my biggest problem, and one of the reasons I am > looking to leave Fedora, is ACPI. I have to bypass it with later > versions of the FC2 kernel and with the base install of FC3. And, > unfortunately, there are problems with my NIC if I bypass it. How > tightly integrated is ACPI with Debian? Any chance I can get away > from these issues by switching from Fedora to Debian. yeah... I know what you mean... when I switched off my laptop it ALWAYS rebooted with both FC1 and FC2. With debian it runs smoothly. But that was only in my laptop... you know... hope it helps cheers norton -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Ryan.. Ryan D'Baisse wrote: | I am looking to move from FC2 to Debian, but have questions... I haven't used Redhat since it was Redhat, but here goes.. | 1. I am still a Linux newbie. Most of the install issues, both with | the OS and with applications, have been taken care of for me with the | slick install wizard and the RPM-based installations. How much of a | learning curve would one be faced with from Fedora to Debian? I think zero, with the new debian-installer project, installing debian is a breeze, whereas this was the most difficult part of using Debian before. | 2. I have been reading two books, "Linux Pocket Guide," by O'Reilly, | and "Beginning Linux Programming," by Wrox. Both tend to stress Red | Hat and Fedora. Will these books still be of use to me on Debian? Yes. | 3. My primary machine is a laptop (Toshiba 5005-S507). Most of the | info I can find on Google, pertaining to laptops, is for Fedora or | Mandrake. How well does Debian handle laptops? Any URLs would be | GREATLY appreciated. Amazingly - using Gnome with Debian I had support for EVERY feature on my laptop. Using KDE I have support for every feature, bar the hardware volume controls. Have you looked at linux-laptop.org for walkthroughs for your model? | 4. My second biggest problem on Fedora was/is wireless support. I am | currently using FC2 with Linuxant's DriverLoader software on my | Linksys WPC54G PCMCIA NIC. Be honest; am I going to be crying if I | try to set this up? I use the free ndiswrapper - works like a dream. Took me less than 2 minutes to set up. | 5. And, finally, my biggest problem, and one of the reasons I am | looking to leave Fedora, is ACPI. I have to bypass it with later | versions of the FC2 kernel and with the base install of FC3. And, | unfortunately, there are problems with my NIC if I bypass it. How | tightly integrated is ACPI with Debian? Any chance I can get away | from these issues by switching from Fedora to Debian. I don't use ACPI - no problems. Hope this helps a little. The main advantage I've found in using Debian over any previous distribution however, is apt-get; I love it.. it keeps me updated with the latest version of everything. I haven't had a problem with commercian software either (VMWare). Debian is a dream come true for me. If it doesn't look good for you - maybe look into Ubuntu which is debian based. Hope this helps somewhat, Cheers, Tim - -- Tim Ebenezer [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBziQPEB6ldf04qpcRAmbIAJ423Hjg8vJXTg8WPJUeJ54LN8+pLQCgxUrI hW8iER2qD3X3bD2AtQ9chOA= =26P1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
