RE: Unstable 'sid' release
Greetings again, One other suggestion for you Pavel, if you are concerned with the stability of Sid/Unstable but there are requirements for new X-Windows components, etc you could try looking at the Xandros Desktop distribution of Linux. It is entirely Debian based but you are looking at forking out a bit of cash for it. However it should give you that stability of the 'stable' release and offer some of the newer features of 'unstable'. I'm currently checking it out for my impending purchase of a new laptop, however I'm yet to use it myself. But it seems to be getting some really good press and offers some unique features. I suggest you check it out yourself and make up your own mind. Xandros Desktop http://www.xandros.com/desktop.html Matt Enjoy! P.S. I have NO connection with the Company that produces Xandros. Just thought I'd meantion that if anyone was wondering after the above sales pitch.
RE: Unstable 'sid' release
Greetings, Sarge/Testing doesn't offer any guarantees either. For about 3+ weeks there php4 was not able to be installed due to dependencies and was automatically removed with a dist-upgrade, which impeded a few things. At the same time request-tracker was causing trouble as well, requiring a bit of coding and extra config. The trick seems to be take particular attention to when you update (particularly with upgrade and dist-upgrade) and watch the bugs lists on the debian website(the bugs lists occasionally solve or work around the bug and not just highlight it). Perhaps you can have a sacrificial lamb type arrangement where you can check any update before putting the updates on your pride and joy. Install two instances of Sid/Unstable and leap frog the updates over each so that there is always at least one 'good' instance. But ultimately you don't really feel alive unless you're facing a little bit of danger. Plus it's a bloody good way to learn a few new tricks when you have to scramble to fix a broken package. If it doesn't go smoothly then there's always the grin and bare it approach until the offending package is up and running again. Matt Enjoy! -Original Message- From: Christian Lyra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 6 April 2003 1:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Unstable 'sid' release Hi, I have been using SID for some time (almost 2 years) on a compaq 1200 notebook. It's nice to have the last version of packages, but I got in trouble a few times. For example, I did a upgrade yesterday, and found that the libxft2 seems to be broken, so my kdm is unusable and everything that uses xft2 to render fonts looks very ugly. I know that in a week this must be solved, but be warned that things can go wrong when apt-get upgrade. You should consider to use testing as this seems to be more stable but yet has almost all the new packages. This is the price to live on a the edge :-) Christian Lyra On Sat, 5 Apr 2003, Steffen Elste wrote: > Hi, > got 'unstable' running on a Dell Inspiron 8200 for quite a while ... > and am perfectly happy with it! Transition from Karolina's KDE > packages to the 'official' ones wasn't really smooth but manageable, > apart from that no complaints. The notebook at work (Fujitsu Siemens > E7010) causes a bit of a headache - can't get sound to work (alsa, the > kernel sound module is fine). > > Steffen Elste > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Unstable 'sid' release
Greetings again, One other suggestion for you Pavel, if you are concerned with the stability of Sid/Unstable but there are requirements for new X-Windows components, etc you could try looking at the Xandros Desktop distribution of Linux. It is entirely Debian based but you are looking at forking out a bit of cash for it. However it should give you that stability of the 'stable' release and offer some of the newer features of 'unstable'. I'm currently checking it out for my impending purchase of a new laptop, however I'm yet to use it myself. But it seems to be getting some really good press and offers some unique features. I suggest you check it out yourself and make up your own mind. Xandros Desktop http://www.xandros.com/desktop.html Matt Enjoy! P.S. I have NO connection with the Company that produces Xandros. Just thought I'd meantion that if anyone was wondering after the above sales pitch. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Unstable 'sid' release
Greetings, Sarge/Testing doesn't offer any guarantees either. For about 3+ weeks there php4 was not able to be installed due to dependencies and was automatically removed with a dist-upgrade, which impeded a few things. At the same time request-tracker was causing trouble as well, requiring a bit of coding and extra config. The trick seems to be take particular attention to when you update (particularly with upgrade and dist-upgrade) and watch the bugs lists on the debian website(the bugs lists occasionally solve or work around the bug and not just highlight it). Perhaps you can have a sacrificial lamb type arrangement where you can check any update before putting the updates on your pride and joy. Install two instances of Sid/Unstable and leap frog the updates over each so that there is always at least one 'good' instance. But ultimately you don't really feel alive unless you're facing a little bit of danger. Plus it's a bloody good way to learn a few new tricks when you have to scramble to fix a broken package. If it doesn't go smoothly then there's always the grin and bare it approach until the offending package is up and running again. Matt Enjoy! -Original Message- From: Christian Lyra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 6 April 2003 1:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Unstable 'sid' release Hi, I have been using SID for some time (almost 2 years) on a compaq 1200 notebook. It's nice to have the last version of packages, but I got in trouble a few times. For example, I did a upgrade yesterday, and found that the libxft2 seems to be broken, so my kdm is unusable and everything that uses xft2 to render fonts looks very ugly. I know that in a week this must be solved, but be warned that things can go wrong when apt-get upgrade. You should consider to use testing as this seems to be more stable but yet has almost all the new packages. This is the price to live on a the edge :-) Christian Lyra On Sat, 5 Apr 2003, Steffen Elste wrote: > Hi, > got 'unstable' running on a Dell Inspiron 8200 for quite a while ... > and am perfectly happy with it! Transition from Karolina's KDE > packages to the 'official' ones wasn't really smooth but manageable, > apart from that no complaints. The notebook at work (Fujitsu Siemens > E7010) causes a bit of a headache - can't get sound to work (alsa, the > kernel sound module is fine). > > Steffen Elste > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
> > It *isn't* stable. That's why it's called "unstable". Sid is the "use at > your own risk" branch of Debian. > note that "unstable" has a similar meaning as it does in chemistry or physics. The item in question is changing, rearranging. This means you may get bitten by package upgrades the maintainer botched. Or having to update EVERYTHING like we did recently for the new c++ version.
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:35:18 +0200 Pavel Tavoda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is't here somebody using sid? > > Can be 'sid' used by experienced user for everyday work on notebook? > > Or better question: "How stable is unstable 'sid' release"? It *isn't* stable. That's why it's called "unstable". Sid is the "use at your own risk" branch of Debian. I say that because many people run Sid without any serious problems; it's easy to forget that there "can" be serious problems. In a discusssion like this a good definition of "experienced user" is "someone who makes regular backups of important stuff, and who knows what to do when problems arise". I have two Debian installations on this machine; one stable and one unstable. I find myself using unstable more and stable less. I've had some problems but none of them serious. But that doesn't mean there won't be serious problems in the future. Kevin
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
Hi, I have been using SID for some time (almost 2 years) on a compaq 1200 notebook. It's nice to have the last version of packages, but I got in trouble a few times. For example, I did a upgrade yesterday, and found that the libxft2 seems to be broken, so my kdm is unusable and everything that uses xft2 to render fonts looks very ugly. I know that in a week this must be solved, but be warned that things can go wrong when apt-get upgrade. You should consider to use testing as this seems to be more stable but yet has almost all the new packages. This is the price to live on a the edge :-) Christian Lyra On Sat, 5 Apr 2003, Steffen Elste wrote: > Hi, > got 'unstable' running on a Dell Inspiron 8200 for quite a while ... and am > perfectly happy with it! > Transition from Karolina's KDE packages to the 'official' ones wasn't really > smooth but manageable, apart from that no complaints. > The notebook at work (Fujitsu Siemens E7010) causes a bit of a headache - > can't get sound to work (alsa, the kernel sound module is fine). > > Steffen Elste > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
> > It *isn't* stable. That's why it's called "unstable". Sid is the "use at > your own risk" branch of Debian. > note that "unstable" has a similar meaning as it does in chemistry or physics. The item in question is changing, rearranging. This means you may get bitten by package upgrades the maintainer botched. Or having to update EVERYTHING like we did recently for the new c++ version. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:35:18 +0200 Pavel Tavoda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is't here somebody using sid? > > Can be 'sid' used by experienced user for everyday work on notebook? > > Or better question: "How stable is unstable 'sid' release"? It *isn't* stable. That's why it's called "unstable". Sid is the "use at your own risk" branch of Debian. I say that because many people run Sid without any serious problems; it's easy to forget that there "can" be serious problems. In a discusssion like this a good definition of "experienced user" is "someone who makes regular backups of important stuff, and who knows what to do when problems arise". I have two Debian installations on this machine; one stable and one unstable. I find myself using unstable more and stable less. I've had some problems but none of them serious. But that doesn't mean there won't be serious problems in the future. Kevin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
Hi, I have been using SID for some time (almost 2 years) on a compaq 1200 notebook. It's nice to have the last version of packages, but I got in trouble a few times. For example, I did a upgrade yesterday, and found that the libxft2 seems to be broken, so my kdm is unusable and everything that uses xft2 to render fonts looks very ugly. I know that in a week this must be solved, but be warned that things can go wrong when apt-get upgrade. You should consider to use testing as this seems to be more stable but yet has almost all the new packages. This is the price to live on a the edge :-) Christian Lyra On Sat, 5 Apr 2003, Steffen Elste wrote: > Hi, > got 'unstable' running on a Dell Inspiron 8200 for quite a while ... and am > perfectly happy with it! > Transition from Karolina's KDE packages to the 'official' ones wasn't really > smooth but manageable, apart from that no complaints. > The notebook at work (Fujitsu Siemens E7010) causes a bit of a headache - > can't get sound to work (alsa, the kernel sound module is fine). > > Steffen Elste > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Is't here somebody using sid? > >Can be 'sid' used by experienced user for everyday work on notebook? > >Or better question: "How stable is unstable 'sid' release"? I'm running sid on a Dell Inspiron 8200. The xfree86 4.2 nv driver works on it, unlike the one in woody. I make no claims on being a typical user. This system is used mainly as an xterm, web browser, and some program development. Sid generally works fine, but there are occasional problems. The major ones were fixed within a day, and I've lived with the minor ones. (vorbis migration, abiword uninstallable, etc.) If you have the disk space, you could have a dual boot system with woody. (Share /home and swap.) Another thing I've seen is woody with a sid chroot where most work was done. -- Blars Blarson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.blars.org/blars.html "Text is a way we cheat time." -- Patrick Nielsen Hayden
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Is't here somebody using sid? > >Can be 'sid' used by experienced user for everyday work on notebook? > >Or better question: "How stable is unstable 'sid' release"? I'm running sid on a Dell Inspiron 8200. The xfree86 4.2 nv driver works on it, unlike the one in woody. I make no claims on being a typical user. This system is used mainly as an xterm, web browser, and some program development. Sid generally works fine, but there are occasional problems. The major ones were fixed within a day, and I've lived with the minor ones. (vorbis migration, abiword uninstallable, etc.) If you have the disk space, you could have a dual boot system with woody. (Share /home and swap.) Another thing I've seen is woody with a sid chroot where most work was done. -- Blars Blarson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.blars.org/blars.html "Text is a way we cheat time." -- Patrick Nielsen Hayden -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
Hi, got 'unstable' running on a Dell Inspiron 8200 for quite a while ... and am perfectly happy with it! Transition from Karolina's KDE packages to the 'official' ones wasn't really smooth but manageable, apart from that no complaints. The notebook at work (Fujitsu Siemens E7010) causes a bit of a headache - can't get sound to work (alsa, the kernel sound module is fine). Steffen Elste
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
Pavel, I have been using SID on my Sony VAIO GRZ-660 for about 2 or so months now. I can't recall an actual problem with it thus far, and that is through a large amount of usage and also many different software applications. I personally would not venture back to `stable` for the reason that the software for the most part seems to be so much better in a normal situation then that of `stable`. I have enjoyed much stability and reliability from my software and will continue to use it. Might I add that hardware support for my laptop is amazing, and I have been extremely happy with having Linux on here, and Debian SID just enhances that experience 10 fold. Best of luck with your notebook and hopefully you will see how great SID works. -Mark On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:35:18 +0200 Pavel Tavoda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is't here somebody using sid? > > Can be 'sid' used by experienced user for everyday work on notebook? > > Or better question: "How stable is unstable 'sid' release"? > > Pavel > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 08:35:18AM +0200, Pavel Tavoda wrote: > Is't here somebody using sid? > > Can be 'sid' used by experienced user for everyday work on notebook? > > Or better question: "How stable is unstable 'sid' release"? > > Pavel > > Hi Pavel- I use sid on a daily basis here on a dell inspiron 4100 with pretty good luck. I also run sid on a desktop machine. I actually enjoy running the unstable tree, looking at the new software, seeing how stuff works. I also have written a few bug reports on occasion. I have not had a real "issue" in quite some time. I think the last thing that kinda got me was an issue with libpam which basically removed the root account from access. But, as someone else told me about that, "look at the bright side. Never has the root account been so secure" :) I believe on a day by day basis that sid works for me with no real issues. There have been issues with software which caused things like post-install errors or things like that. None of these have really stopped me from being productive. Some things I liked less than others like when mozilla went to 1.3 and I lost galeon for awhile; but then I started using galeon-snapshot and phoenix more so things are great! -- Michael Perry | Do or do not. There is no try. -Master Yoda [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.lnxpowered.org
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
Hi, got 'unstable' running on a Dell Inspiron 8200 for quite a while ... and am perfectly happy with it! Transition from Karolina's KDE packages to the 'official' ones wasn't really smooth but manageable, apart from that no complaints. The notebook at work (Fujitsu Siemens E7010) causes a bit of a headache - can't get sound to work (alsa, the kernel sound module is fine). Steffen Elste -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
Pavel, I have been using SID on my Sony VAIO GRZ-660 for about 2 or so months now. I can't recall an actual problem with it thus far, and that is through a large amount of usage and also many different software applications. I personally would not venture back to `stable` for the reason that the software for the most part seems to be so much better in a normal situation then that of `stable`. I have enjoyed much stability and reliability from my software and will continue to use it. Might I add that hardware support for my laptop is amazing, and I have been extremely happy with having Linux on here, and Debian SID just enhances that experience 10 fold. Best of luck with your notebook and hopefully you will see how great SID works. -Mark On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:35:18 +0200 Pavel Tavoda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is't here somebody using sid? > > Can be 'sid' used by experienced user for everyday work on notebook? > > Or better question: "How stable is unstable 'sid' release"? > > Pavel > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Unstable 'sid' release
On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 08:35:18AM +0200, Pavel Tavoda wrote: > Is't here somebody using sid? > > Can be 'sid' used by experienced user for everyday work on notebook? > > Or better question: "How stable is unstable 'sid' release"? > > Pavel > > Hi Pavel- I use sid on a daily basis here on a dell inspiron 4100 with pretty good luck. I also run sid on a desktop machine. I actually enjoy running the unstable tree, looking at the new software, seeing how stuff works. I also have written a few bug reports on occasion. I have not had a real "issue" in quite some time. I think the last thing that kinda got me was an issue with libpam which basically removed the root account from access. But, as someone else told me about that, "look at the bright side. Never has the root account been so secure" :) I believe on a day by day basis that sid works for me with no real issues. There have been issues with software which caused things like post-install errors or things like that. None of these have really stopped me from being productive. Some things I liked less than others like when mozilla went to 1.3 and I lost galeon for awhile; but then I started using galeon-snapshot and phoenix more so things are great! -- Michael Perry | Do or do not. There is no try. -Master Yoda [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.lnxpowered.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
