Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 17:26 +0200, Thomas Hood wrote: > > It's a Debian issue. The hotplug and ifupdown maintainers are inactive. > However, I don't know of any other distros that have better support for > automatic dynamic configuration of laptops. Do you? Of course if we could all agree that there was life after ifupdown, then there are other alternatives, already existing. :-) Cheers, Andrew. - Andrew @ Catalyst .Net .NZ Ltd, PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington WEB: http://catalyst.net.nz/PHYS: Level 2, 150-154 Willis St DDI: +64(4)803-2201 MOB: +64(272)DEBIAN OFFICE: +64(4)499-2267 You will pioneer the first Martian colony. - signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 17:26 +0200, Thomas Hood wrote: > > It's a Debian issue. The hotplug and ifupdown maintainers are inactive. > However, I don't know of any other distros that have better support for > automatic dynamic configuration of laptops. Do you? Of course if we could all agree that there was life after ifupdown, then there are other alternatives, already existing. :-) Cheers, Andrew. - Andrew @ Catalyst .Net .NZ Ltd, PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington WEB: http://catalyst.net.nz/PHYS: Level 2, 150-154 Willis St DDI: +64(4)803-2201 MOB: +64(272)DEBIAN OFFICE: +64(4)499-2267 You will pioneer the first Martian colony. - signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
> So, what's the advantage of using hotplug for bringing up the interface > over cardmgr running /etc/pcmcai/network(.opts)? Hotplug is the buggy work-in-progress standard mechanism of the future whereas cardmgr is the debugged bloated obsolete mechanism of the past. Take your pick. > I tried that once, and maybe didn't understand the config. I was > actually looking for a way in /etc/network/interfaces to run a script > and have the exit code control how the interface is brought up. Look at the ifupdown package: http://panopticon.csustan.edu/thood/ifupdown-roam.html Even if you don't want to install the package, the README file may be helpful to you. > > Expect further problems. Debian's support for dynamic configuration > > sucks. > > To gain an understanding of how badly it sucks, start reading the bugs > > open against hotplug and ifupdown. > > Is that a Linux issue or Debian? It's a Debian issue. The hotplug and ifupdown maintainers are inactive. However, I don't know of any other distros that have better support for automatic dynamic configuration of laptops. Do you? > I did notice that with 2.4.21 and wlan-ng that cardmgr was better at > removing the card -- I'd pull the card and the drivers would be removed > without delay. Now with 2.6.5 and Orinoco|HostAP there's either a long > delay or a system hang. I don't think that's a cardmgr issue, though -- > as I've tried manually removing the drivers (ifdown eth1; rmmod > ) and have the same problems. So, I'll agree that it's either a > problem with the driver dealing with being removed, or the kernel. I should make one thing clear. If you have PCMCIA cards then you always need cardmgr per se. When you put an "exit 0" at the top of /etc/pcmcia/network you only disable the interface configuration code. However, cardmgr is still used to load drivers, to control the sockets, to beep, etc. -- Thomas Hood
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 01:18:34PM +0200, Thomas Hood wrote: > cardmgr manages PCMCIA cards via /etc/pcmcia/network. > > Hotplug can do the same thing but it is disabled by default. If you > enable the hotplug mechanism by adding > > mapping hotplug > script echo Ok, so hotplug then does an ifup eth0=hotplug, the script "echo" simply echos the physical interface (eth0 in this example) and then the "iface eth0" stanza is brought up. > to /etc/network/interfaces then you should disable the cardmgr > mechanism by putting an > > exit 0 > > at the top of /etc/pcmcia/network. Ok, but in this case the pcmcia (cardmgr) setup is managing loading and unloading and required modules. So, what's the advantage of using hotplug for bringing up the interface over cardmgr running /etc/pcmcai/network(.opts)? > > In my network.opts script I modified it to bring down eth0 before > > bringing up the wireless interface (eth1 in my case), and when the card > > is removed call ifup eth0. What I'd like to figure out is how to not > > bring up eth0 unless a cable is plugged in. > > You can use ifplugd for that. I tried that once, and maybe didn't understand the config. I was actually looking for a way in /etc/network/interfaces to run a script and have the exit code control how the interface is brought up. Maybe I wasn't thinking clearly and I could rather have the script return an undefined map name if the ethernet cable is not detected. > It is most likely buggy drivers causing lockups. Ok. But the problems really started after upgrading to 2.6 kernel, but that's when I also moved from wlan-ng to Orinoco. I asked on Seattle Wireless list about best driver for Linux. Someone suggested "hands down" HostAP. But the debian page for hostap says to use wlan-ng: However, the orinoco_cs driver in current 2.4 kernel tree or pcmcia-cs package or linux-wlan-ng is probably better supported solution for cases that do not use Host AP mode. So I'm not sure. I just want to find the best driver/card mix for the least amount of trouble. I'll buy the wireless card to fit the driver. > Expect further problems. Debian's support for dynamic configuration sucks. > To gain an understanding of how badly it sucks, start reading the bugs > open against hotplug and ifupdown. Is that a Linux issue or Debian? I did notice that with 2.4.21 and wlan-ng that cardmgr was better at removing the card -- I'd pull the card and the drivers would be removed without delay. Now with 2.6.5 and Orinoco|HostAP there's either a long delay or a system hang. I don't think that's a cardmgr issue, though -- as I've tried manually removing the drivers (ifdown eth1; rmmod ) and have the same problems. So, I'll agree that it's either a problem with the driver dealing with being removed, or the kernel. It's time like these that those powerbooks don't seem so expensive. ;) -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
> So, what's the advantage of using hotplug for bringing up the interface > over cardmgr running /etc/pcmcai/network(.opts)? Hotplug is the buggy work-in-progress standard mechanism of the future whereas cardmgr is the debugged bloated obsolete mechanism of the past. Take your pick. > I tried that once, and maybe didn't understand the config. I was > actually looking for a way in /etc/network/interfaces to run a script > and have the exit code control how the interface is brought up. Look at the ifupdown package: http://panopticon.csustan.edu/thood/ifupdown-roam.html Even if you don't want to install the package, the README file may be helpful to you. > > Expect further problems. Debian's support for dynamic configuration > > sucks. > > To gain an understanding of how badly it sucks, start reading the bugs > > open against hotplug and ifupdown. > > Is that a Linux issue or Debian? It's a Debian issue. The hotplug and ifupdown maintainers are inactive. However, I don't know of any other distros that have better support for automatic dynamic configuration of laptops. Do you? > I did notice that with 2.4.21 and wlan-ng that cardmgr was better at > removing the card -- I'd pull the card and the drivers would be removed > without delay. Now with 2.6.5 and Orinoco|HostAP there's either a long > delay or a system hang. I don't think that's a cardmgr issue, though -- > as I've tried manually removing the drivers (ifdown eth1; rmmod > ) and have the same problems. So, I'll agree that it's either a > problem with the driver dealing with being removed, or the kernel. I should make one thing clear. If you have PCMCIA cards then you always need cardmgr per se. When you put an "exit 0" at the top of /etc/pcmcia/network you only disable the interface configuration code. However, cardmgr is still used to load drivers, to control the sockets, to beep, etc. -- Thomas Hood -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 01:18:34PM +0200, Thomas Hood wrote: > cardmgr manages PCMCIA cards via /etc/pcmcia/network. > > Hotplug can do the same thing but it is disabled by default. If you > enable the hotplug mechanism by adding > > mapping hotplug > script echo Ok, so hotplug then does an ifup eth0=hotplug, the script "echo" simply echos the physical interface (eth0 in this example) and then the "iface eth0" stanza is brought up. > to /etc/network/interfaces then you should disable the cardmgr > mechanism by putting an > > exit 0 > > at the top of /etc/pcmcia/network. Ok, but in this case the pcmcia (cardmgr) setup is managing loading and unloading and required modules. So, what's the advantage of using hotplug for bringing up the interface over cardmgr running /etc/pcmcai/network(.opts)? > > In my network.opts script I modified it to bring down eth0 before > > bringing up the wireless interface (eth1 in my case), and when the card > > is removed call ifup eth0. What I'd like to figure out is how to not > > bring up eth0 unless a cable is plugged in. > > You can use ifplugd for that. I tried that once, and maybe didn't understand the config. I was actually looking for a way in /etc/network/interfaces to run a script and have the exit code control how the interface is brought up. Maybe I wasn't thinking clearly and I could rather have the script return an undefined map name if the ethernet cable is not detected. > It is most likely buggy drivers causing lockups. Ok. But the problems really started after upgrading to 2.6 kernel, but that's when I also moved from wlan-ng to Orinoco. I asked on Seattle Wireless list about best driver for Linux. Someone suggested "hands down" HostAP. But the debian page for hostap says to use wlan-ng: However, the orinoco_cs driver in current 2.4 kernel tree or pcmcia-cs package or linux-wlan-ng is probably better supported solution for cases that do not use Host AP mode. So I'm not sure. I just want to find the best driver/card mix for the least amount of trouble. I'll buy the wireless card to fit the driver. > Expect further problems. Debian's support for dynamic configuration sucks. > To gain an understanding of how badly it sucks, start reading the bugs > open against hotplug and ifupdown. Is that a Linux issue or Debian? I did notice that with 2.4.21 and wlan-ng that cardmgr was better at removing the card -- I'd pull the card and the drivers would be removed without delay. Now with 2.6.5 and Orinoco|HostAP there's either a long delay or a system hang. I don't think that's a cardmgr issue, though -- as I've tried manually removing the drivers (ifdown eth1; rmmod ) and have the same problems. So, I'll agree that it's either a problem with the driver dealing with being removed, or the kernel. It's time like these that those powerbooks don't seem so expensive. ;) -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
> Ok, now I'm confused. In the pcmcia-cs package there's the cardmgr > program that, if I understand correctly, reads /etc/pcmcia/config* files > on startup. Then when a card is inserted cardmgr matches the card to a > device id (from the config file(s)) and load modules. It then loads the > associated "class" script -- which is the network.opts script you > mentioned, and if nothing matches there (on Debian) ifup or ifdown is > called. And as you say, ifup/ifdown use /etc/network/interfaces to > configure things. That's right. > But then I see you have a "mapping hotplug" stanza. So is hotplug > managing your pcmcia card inserts? That is, what's confusing me is I > though[t] pcmcia-cs (i.e. cardmgr) handled this, yet you are showing a > stanza defined for hotplug events. cardmgr manages PCMCIA cards via /etc/pcmcia/network. Hotplug can do the same thing but it is disabled by default. If you enable the hotplug mechanism by adding mapping hotplug script echo to /etc/network/interfaces then you should disable the cardmgr mechanism by putting an exit 0 at the top of /etc/pcmcia/network. > In my network.opts script I modified it to bring down eth0 before > bringing up the wireless interface (eth1 in my case), and when the card > is removed call ifup eth0. What I'd like to figure out is how to not > bring up eth0 unless a cable is plugged in. You can use ifplugd for that. > I'm having so many problems with wireless now. I think my hardware must > be failing as I'm having the same problems with different drivers. > Lately when I remove my wireless card my machine will freeze hard. > Seems like these problems started with upgrading to 2.6.5, but I also > suspect my wireless hardware is failing since I often have to hard reset > my AP. It is most likely buggy drivers causing lockups. Expect further problems. Debian's support for dynamic configuration sucks. To gain an understanding of how badly it sucks, start reading the bugs open against hotplug and ifupdown. -- Thomas Hood
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
> Ok, now I'm confused. In the pcmcia-cs package there's the cardmgr > program that, if I understand correctly, reads /etc/pcmcia/config* files > on startup. Then when a card is inserted cardmgr matches the card to a > device id (from the config file(s)) and load modules. It then loads the > associated "class" script -- which is the network.opts script you > mentioned, and if nothing matches there (on Debian) ifup or ifdown is > called. And as you say, ifup/ifdown use /etc/network/interfaces to > configure things. That's right. > But then I see you have a "mapping hotplug" stanza. So is hotplug > managing your pcmcia card inserts? That is, what's confusing me is I > though[t] pcmcia-cs (i.e. cardmgr) handled this, yet you are showing a > stanza defined for hotplug events. cardmgr manages PCMCIA cards via /etc/pcmcia/network. Hotplug can do the same thing but it is disabled by default. If you enable the hotplug mechanism by adding mapping hotplug script echo to /etc/network/interfaces then you should disable the cardmgr mechanism by putting an exit 0 at the top of /etc/pcmcia/network. > In my network.opts script I modified it to bring down eth0 before > bringing up the wireless interface (eth1 in my case), and when the card > is removed call ifup eth0. What I'd like to figure out is how to not > bring up eth0 unless a cable is plugged in. You can use ifplugd for that. > I'm having so many problems with wireless now. I think my hardware must > be failing as I'm having the same problems with different drivers. > Lately when I remove my wireless card my machine will freeze hard. > Seems like these problems started with upgrading to 2.6.5, but I also > suspect my wireless hardware is failing since I often have to hard reset > my AP. It is most likely buggy drivers causing lockups. Expect further problems. Debian's support for dynamic configuration sucks. To gain an understanding of how badly it sucks, start reading the bugs open against hotplug and ifupdown. -- Thomas Hood -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 05:48:53PM -0700, Jim McCloskey wrote: > iface eth1 inet dhcp > mapping hotplug > script echo Ok, now I'm confused. In the pcmcia-cs package there's the cardmgr program that, if I understand correctly, reads /etc/pcmcia/config* files on startup. Then when a card is inserted cardmgr matches the card to a device id (from the config file(s)) and load modules. It then loads the associated "class" script -- which is the network.opts script you mentioned, and if nothing matches there (on Debian) ifup or ifdown is called. And as you say, ifup/ifdown use /etc/network/interfaces to configure things. But then I see you have a "mapping hotplug" stanza. So is hotplug managing your pcmcia card inserts? That is, what's confusing me is I though pcmcia-cs (i.e. cardmgr) handled this, yet you are showing a stanza defined for hotplug events. In my network.opts script I modified it to bring down eth0 before bringing up the wireless interface (eth1 in my case), and when the card is removed call ifup eth0. What I'd like to figure out is how to not bring up eth0 unless a cable is plugged in. I'm having so many problems with wireless now. I think my hardware must be failing as I'm having the same problems with different drivers. Lately when I remove my wireless card my machine will freeze hard. Seems like these problems started with upgrading to 2.6.5, but I also suspect my wireless hardware is failing since I often have to hard reset my AP. -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 05:48:53PM -0700, Jim McCloskey wrote: > iface eth1 inet dhcp > mapping hotplug > script echo Ok, now I'm confused. In the pcmcia-cs package there's the cardmgr program that, if I understand correctly, reads /etc/pcmcia/config* files on startup. Then when a card is inserted cardmgr matches the card to a device id (from the config file(s)) and load modules. It then loads the associated "class" script -- which is the network.opts script you mentioned, and if nothing matches there (on Debian) ifup or ifdown is called. And as you say, ifup/ifdown use /etc/network/interfaces to configure things. But then I see you have a "mapping hotplug" stanza. So is hotplug managing your pcmcia card inserts? That is, what's confusing me is I though pcmcia-cs (i.e. cardmgr) handled this, yet you are showing a stanza defined for hotplug events. In my network.opts script I modified it to bring down eth0 before bringing up the wireless interface (eth1 in my case), and when the card is removed call ifup eth0. What I'd like to figure out is how to not bring up eth0 unless a cable is plugged in. I'm having so many problems with wireless now. I think my hardware must be failing as I'm having the same problems with different drivers. Lately when I remove my wireless card my machine will freeze hard. Seems like these problems started with upgrading to 2.6.5, but I also suspect my wireless hardware is failing since I often have to hard reset my AP. -- Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
Alexander May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |> When inserting the card sarge loaded also the hermes and orinoco modules |> but no device (eth1) was assigned. I believe that the file /etc/pcmcia/network.opts has a final stanza which is supposed to use the Debian network interfaces file /etc/network/interfaces to bring up the interface corresponding to the wireless card. So how the system works is going to depend on how that second file in particular is set up. On my system, the relevant part of that file looks like this: # For the wireless card # iface eth1 inet dhcp mapping hotplug script echo and that works well. This is for an Orinoco Gold card. Three modules are loaded---orinoco, orinoco_cs, hermes. Good luck, Jim
Re: WLAN-Card on Sarge
Alexander May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |> When inserting the card sarge loaded also the hermes and orinoco modules |> but no device (eth1) was assigned. I believe that the file /etc/pcmcia/network.opts has a final stanza which is supposed to use the Debian network interfaces file /etc/network/interfaces to bring up the interface corresponding to the wireless card. So how the system works is going to depend on how that second file in particular is set up. On my system, the relevant part of that file looks like this: # For the wireless card # iface eth1 inet dhcp mapping hotplug script echo and that works well. This is for an Orinoco Gold card. Three modules are loaded---orinoco, orinoco_cs, hermes. Good luck, Jim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
