Re: Which laptop?

[Micha Feigin]

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 10:45:40 -0600
Javier-Elias Vasquez-Vivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Regarding sound, although I know nothing about ubuntu, you can try:
> 
> ls -l /dev/mixer*
> 
> Usually the group associated to audio devices is "audio", so all you
> would need to do is adding the non root member to the audio group...
> 
> Javier.

IIRC the OP said that root doesn't have sound, not non-root. If so check if you
are running a sound daemon that is possibly locking the sound device and only
allows some users to connect to it.

> 
> On 6/26/05, Willie McKemie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 08:35:07AM -0500, Willie McKemie wrote:
> > > I've been messing with Compaq Armadas (73xx, 78xx, 7400, 7800) quite
> > > some time and haven't been able to get everything to work at one time.
> > > USB is broken under kernels 2.6.x.  PCMCIA tends to not work under
> > > 2.4.x and in certain cases (new Ubuntu at least) a Debian 2.4.x kernel
> > > package fails to run X.
> > >
> > > So, I'm shopping for slightly more modern, but still modestly priced,
> > > laptop.  Who can comment on Debian on Dell Latitude C600 or similar?
> > > Compaq EVOs?  These are generally available "off lease", sans microsoft
> > > tax, for ~$350.
> > 
> > So, I got this C600 thanks to a bit of encouragement here.  Very nice,
> > 1400x1000 display.  The new Ubuntu installed with no trouble.
> > Everything seems to work, even sound.  It finally dawned on me that,
> > with Ubuntu, sound does not work for the root user, but does for a
> > "normal" user.  Anyone know why that is?  And how to fix it?
> > 
> > The combination "eraser head" AND "touch pad" pointer is driving me
> > crazy; I am always inadvertently touching the touch pad and having the
> > pointer doing unexpected things.  The bios has some pointer options,
> > but none seem to disable the touch pad while allowing the eraser head.
> > Anyone else have that problem?  And a solution?
> > 
> > Several times the X pointer has locked up.  Pointer can not be moved
> > and buttons have no effect.  Restarting X does not fix it.  Rebooting
> > does.  Anyone else have that problem?  And a solution?
> > 
> > Has the spam situation here improved?  Or have my spam filters just
> > improved?
> > 
> > The "low resource" discussion has been of much interest to me.  Thanks
> > to the posters!
> > 
> > --
> > Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
> > http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> > Linux system uptime  363 days 19 hours 09 minutes
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
>  +++
>  This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
>  at the Tel-Aviv University CC.
> 

 
 +++
 This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
 at the Tel-Aviv University CC.


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Re: Which laptop?

[Javier-Elias Vasquez-Vivas]

Regarding sound, although I know nothing about ubuntu, you can try:

ls -l /dev/mixer*

Usually the group associated to audio devices is "audio", so all you
would need to do is adding the non root member to the audio group...

Javier.

On 6/26/05, Willie McKemie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 08:35:07AM -0500, Willie McKemie wrote:
> > I've been messing with Compaq Armadas (73xx, 78xx, 7400, 7800) quite
> > some time and haven't been able to get everything to work at one time.
> > USB is broken under kernels 2.6.x.  PCMCIA tends to not work under
> > 2.4.x and in certain cases (new Ubuntu at least) a Debian 2.4.x kernel
> > package fails to run X.
> >
> > So, I'm shopping for slightly more modern, but still modestly priced,
> > laptop.  Who can comment on Debian on Dell Latitude C600 or similar?
> > Compaq EVOs?  These are generally available "off lease", sans microsoft
> > tax, for ~$350.
> 
> So, I got this C600 thanks to a bit of encouragement here.  Very nice,
> 1400x1000 display.  The new Ubuntu installed with no trouble.
> Everything seems to work, even sound.  It finally dawned on me that,
> with Ubuntu, sound does not work for the root user, but does for a
> "normal" user.  Anyone know why that is?  And how to fix it?
> 
> The combination "eraser head" AND "touch pad" pointer is driving me
> crazy; I am always inadvertently touching the touch pad and having the
> pointer doing unexpected things.  The bios has some pointer options,
> but none seem to disable the touch pad while allowing the eraser head.
> Anyone else have that problem?  And a solution?
> 
> Several times the X pointer has locked up.  Pointer can not be moved
> and buttons have no effect.  Restarting X does not fix it.  Rebooting
> does.  Anyone else have that problem?  And a solution?
> 
> Has the spam situation here improved?  Or have my spam filters just
> improved?
> 
> The "low resource" discussion has been of much interest to me.  Thanks
> to the posters!
> 
> --
> Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Linux system uptime  363 days 19 hours 09 minutes
> 
> 
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Which laptop?

[Willie McKemie]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 08:35:07AM -0500, Willie McKemie wrote:
> I've been messing with Compaq Armadas (73xx, 78xx, 7400, 7800) quite 
> some time and haven't been able to get everything to work at one time.  
> USB is broken under kernels 2.6.x.  PCMCIA tends to not work under 
> 2.4.x and in certain cases (new Ubuntu at least) a Debian 2.4.x kernel 
> package fails to run X.
> 
> So, I'm shopping for slightly more modern, but still modestly priced, 
> laptop.  Who can comment on Debian on Dell Latitude C600 or similar?  
> Compaq EVOs?  These are generally available "off lease", sans microsoft 
> tax, for ~$350.

So, I got this C600 thanks to a bit of encouragement here.  Very nice, 
1400x1000 display.  The new Ubuntu installed with no trouble.  
Everything seems to work, even sound.  It finally dawned on me that, 
with Ubuntu, sound does not work for the root user, but does for a 
"normal" user.  Anyone know why that is?  And how to fix it?

The combination "eraser head" AND "touch pad" pointer is driving me 
crazy; I am always inadvertently touching the touch pad and having the 
pointer doing unexpected things.  The bios has some pointer options, 
but none seem to disable the touch pad while allowing the eraser head.  
Anyone else have that problem?  And a solution?

Several times the X pointer has locked up.  Pointer can not be moved 
and buttons have no effect.  Restarting X does not fix it.  Rebooting 
does.  Anyone else have that problem?  And a solution?

Has the spam situation here improved?  Or have my spam filters just 
improved?

The "low resource" discussion has been of much interest to me.  Thanks 
to the posters!

-- 
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Linux system uptime  363 days 19 hours 09 minutes


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Re: Which laptop? & audio CD on Armada 7400

[Willie McKemie]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 08:35:07AM -0500, Willie McKemie wrote:
> I've been messing with Compaq Armadas (73xx, 78xx, 7400, 7800) quite 
> some time and haven't been able to get everything to work at one time.  
> USB is broken under kernels 2.6.x.  PCMCIA tends to not work under 
> 2.4.x and in certain cases (new Ubuntu at least) a Debian 2.4.x kernel 
> package fails to run X.
> 
> So, I'm shopping for slightly more modern, but still modestly priced, 
> laptop.  Who can comment on Debian on Dell Latitude C600 or similar?  
> Compaq EVOs?  These are generally available "off lease", sans microsoft 
> tax, for ~$350.

Thanks to all who responded.  With a bit more confidence than I had, I 
ordered a Latitude C600.  I understand I will likely have to use the 
vesa X server.  Not sure what, if any, problems that will present.  
Probably, more questions later.

I've been attempting to play audio CDs on this Armada 7400 without 
success.  With Ubuntu Gnome "CD Player", the CD is detected, but 
doesn't play.  With "Sound Juicer", the tracks are listed, but when 
"extract" is selected, it tells me:
Sound Juicer could not extract this CD.
Reason: Could not open CD device for reading.
I've looked at permissions on /dev/hdb and the like, but find nothing 
amiss.  SOME other sound works, including "Music Player".  Help?

-- 
Willie


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Re: Which laptop?

[Matej Cepl]

Willie McKemie wrote:
> So, I'm shopping for slightly more modern, but still modestly priced,
> laptop.  Who can comment on Debian on Dell Latitude C600 or similar?
> Compaq EVOs?  These are generally available "off lease", sans microsoft
> tax, for ~$350.

I have here Dell Inspiron 2200 (Dell offered it new for $600 which I
couldn't resist) and although there are some rough edges (I have to use
Xorg packages with VESA driver, modem should work, but I have not managed
to make it work yet, and wireless card works with ndiswrapper and Windows
drivers) generally speaking I am quite satisfied.

BTW, the lines in /etc/apt/sources.list for Xorg drivers is

deb http://neo.wh-stuttgart.de/debian testing xorg
deb-src http://neo.wh-stuttgart.de/debian testing xorg

Best,

Matej

-- 
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fear.



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Re: Which laptop?

[Marc Koschewski]

* Willie McKemie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-06-10 08:35:07 -0500]:

> I've been messing with Compaq Armadas (73xx, 78xx, 7400, 7800) quite 
> some time and haven't been able to get everything to work at one time.  
> USB is broken under kernels 2.6.x.  PCMCIA tends to not work under 
> 2.4.x and in certain cases (new Ubuntu at least) a Debian 2.4.x kernel 
> package fails to run X.
> 
> So, I'm shopping for slightly more modern, but still modestly priced, 
> laptop.  Who can comment on Debian on Dell Latitude C600 or similar?  
> Compaq EVOs?  These are generally available "off lease", sans microsoft 
> tax, for ~$350.
> 
> Willie
>
Hi Willie,

I've run DELL Laptops ever since. I'm typing this e-mail on a DELL
Inspiron 82000 - relatively old but still a good mobile to work with.
It supports ACPI, PCMCIA and much more and is on eB.. for muss less than
a modern notebook. In combination with the 2.4 GHz processor, 1GB RAM
and the 7K60 (or 7K100) it still rocks!

Regards,
Marc


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Which laptop with centrino?

[Lloyd Dizon]

Can you post your installation notes?

best,
Lloyd

--- Markus Garscha
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> a week ago i bought an acer travelmate 800 lci. it
> works fine under
> linux. some things are still on my todo-list:
> - get wlan work (=waiting for intel supporting linux
> :( )
> - get the smartcard-reader work (o2micro)
> - find some acpi tools for use under gnome2.2
> - configure all Fn-Keys (=hotbuttons like "email"
> "web" etc.)
>   volume control works already
> - power-management (=suspend,sleep)
> - cd-writer
> 
> things that work:
> - ethernet (broadcom 4401, bcm4400.o)
> - graphics (ati radeon 9000 sxga, xfree 4.2.x)
> - acpi (kernel modules, e.g. auto poweroff)
> - usb hotplug (e.g. logitech mouse, on _all_ 4
> ports!
>   under wxp it only works on the first one)
> - cardbus 
> - audio (i810_audio)
> - ieee1394 (kernel-driver loaded without errors. not
>   testet because i haven't a firewire device)
> - cd/dvd rom
> 
> so far 
> markus



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Re: Which laptop with centrino?

[Lord Yupa]

On Tuesday 22 April 2003 10:32, Markus Garscha wrote:
> linux. some things are still on my todo-list:
> - get wlan work (=waiting for intel supporting linux :( )
> - get the smartcard-reader work (o2micro)
> - find some acpi tools for use under gnome2.2
> - configure all Fn-Keys (=hotbuttons like "email" "web" etc.)
>   volume control works already
> - power-management (=suspend,sleep)
> - cd-writer

Does the internal modem works? 
Why cd-writer does not work? 

lord yupa

Re: Which laptop with centrino?

[Markus Garscha]

Hi,

a week ago i bought an acer travelmate 800 lci. it works fine under
linux. some things are still on my todo-list:
- get wlan work (=waiting for intel supporting linux :( )
- get the smartcard-reader work (o2micro)
- find some acpi tools for use under gnome2.2
- configure all Fn-Keys (=hotbuttons like "email" "web" etc.)
  volume control works already
- power-management (=suspend,sleep)
- cd-writer

things that work:
- ethernet (broadcom 4401, bcm4400.o)
- graphics (ati radeon 9000 sxga, xfree 4.2.x)
- acpi (kernel modules, e.g. auto poweroff)
- usb hotplug (e.g. logitech mouse, on _all_ 4 ports!
  under wxp it only works on the first one)
- cardbus 
- audio (i810_audio)
- ieee1394 (kernel-driver loaded without errors. not
  testet because i haven't a firewire device)
- cd/dvd rom

so far 
markus

-- 
---
 Markus Garscha
 Germany  pgp-keyid: 0xEE18AF3B 
 
---



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Re: Which laptop with centrino?

[Lloyd Dizon]

It's the Intel Pro WLAN adapter which isn't supported
currently. The chipset et processeur are supported:

http://www.intel.com/support/notebook/centrino/os.htm

I myself have ordered a Dell 500m and currently doin
some research how to proceed installing Linux
préférably with APM or ACPI support. If you have any
links which might be of help please post them \m/

best,
Lloyd


--- Lord Yupa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did anybody try the IBM T40 or Sony Z1m laptop?
> Do they work without problems under linux?
> Does the intel centrino (which still lack of
> official support) work under 
> linux?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> lord yupa
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Which laptop with centrino?

[Aryan Ameri]

On Saturday 19 April 2003 20:41, Lord Yupa wrote:
> Did anybody try the IBM T40 or Sony Z1m laptop?
> Do they work without problems under linux?
> Does the intel centrino (which still lack of official support) work
> under linux?

No, currently it doesn't.
Don't buy them, instead ask intel for drivers.
They say they have the drivers on the lab, and will release them when 
they see enough demand. Sigh...

Cheers

-- 
/* Impeach God */
--RMS
Aryan Ameri

Re: Fn keys WAS Re: Which laptop!!!

[Simon Wong]

On Sun, 2002-11-24 at 19:50, Jim Richardson wrote:
> Er, that should be < 1600x1200...

I figured as much !

The problem has been solved by increasing my HorizSync and VertRefresh
to crazilylarge numbers as mentioned in another person's email.

The Fn-F7(font) button can then be subsequently used to fix up any
fuzziness.


-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**

Re: Fn keys WAS Re: Which laptop!!!

[Simon Wong]

On Sun, 2002-11-24 at 19:50, Jim Richardson wrote:
> Er, that should be < 1600x1200...

I figured as much !

The problem has been solved by increasing my HorizSync and VertRefresh
to crazilylarge numbers as mentioned in another person's email.

The Fn-F7(font) button can then be subsequently used to fix up any
fuzziness.


-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**


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Re: Fn keys WAS Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 07:42:22PM -0800, Jim Richardson wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 11:12:35AM +1100, Simon Wong wrote:
> > On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 15:03, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > > > Do your Fn keys work?
> > [...]
> > > 
> > > Yes, they work fine.
> > 
> > It's all very strange as mine work again too!  They seem to
> > intermittently drop in and out.
> > 
> > Mind if I ask if you can get lower video modes than 1400x1050 if you
> > have an ATI Rage128?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> >
> 
> 
> I have the Geforce2Go chipset, and can get > 1600x1200 easily. 
>

Er, that should be < 1600x1200...

 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
A bad day, is when aliens attack, the dog bites you, and your boss tells
 you that the new client wants to make a few changes before delivery.
Linux, super computers, office computers, or home computers, it works. 

Re: Fn keys WAS Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 07:42:22PM -0800, Jim Richardson wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 11:12:35AM +1100, Simon Wong wrote:
> > On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 15:03, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > > > Do your Fn keys work?
> > [...]
> > > 
> > > Yes, they work fine.
> > 
> > It's all very strange as mine work again too!  They seem to
> > intermittently drop in and out.
> > 
> > Mind if I ask if you can get lower video modes than 1400x1050 if you
> > have an ATI Rage128?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> >
> 
> 
> I have the Geforce2Go chipset, and can get > 1600x1200 easily. 
>

Er, that should be < 1600x1200...

 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
A bad day, is when aliens attack, the dog bites you, and your boss tells
 you that the new client wants to make a few changes before delivery.
Linux, super computers, office computers, or home computers, it works. 


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Re: Fn keys WAS Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 11:12:35AM +1100, Simon Wong wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 15:03, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > > Do your Fn keys work?
> [...]
> > 
> > Yes, they work fine.
> 
> It's all very strange as mine work again too!  They seem to
> intermittently drop in and out.
> 
> Mind if I ask if you can get lower video modes than 1400x1050 if you
> have an ATI Rage128?
> 
> Thanks.
>


I have the Geforce2Go chipset, and can get > 1600x1200 easily. 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
A bad day, is when aliens attack, the dog bites you, and your boss tells
 you that the new client wants to make a few changes before delivery.
Linux, super computers, office computers, or home computers, it works. 

Re: Fn keys WAS Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 11:12:35AM +1100, Simon Wong wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 15:03, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > > Do your Fn keys work?
> [...]
> > 
> > Yes, they work fine.
> 
> It's all very strange as mine work again too!  They seem to
> intermittently drop in and out.
> 
> Mind if I ask if you can get lower video modes than 1400x1050 if you
> have an ATI Rage128?
> 
> Thanks.
>


I have the Geforce2Go chipset, and can get > 1600x1200 easily. 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
A bad day, is when aliens attack, the dog bites you, and your boss tells
 you that the new client wants to make a few changes before delivery.
Linux, super computers, office computers, or home computers, it works. 


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Fn keys WAS Re: Which laptop!!!

[Simon Wong]

On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 15:03, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > Do your Fn keys work?
[...]
> 
> Yes, they work fine.

It's all very strange as mine work again too!  They seem to
intermittently drop in and out.

Mind if I ask if you can get lower video modes than 1400x1050 if you
have an ATI Rage128?

Thanks.


-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**

Fn keys WAS Re: Which laptop!!!

[Simon Wong]

On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 15:03, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > Do your Fn keys work?
[...]
> 
> Yes, they work fine.

It's all very strange as mine work again too!  They seem to
intermittently drop in and out.

Mind if I ask if you can get lower video modes than 1400x1050 if you
have an ATI Rage128?

Thanks.


-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 05:09:18PM +1100, Simon Wong wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-11-16 at 03:10, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > Yeah, I am still at A07 BIOS for my 8100. So far, have seen no reason to
> > upgrade that. S2R works with the nv driver, not for the NVdriver though
> > :( But that's not a BIOS issue AIUI.
> 
> Do your Fn keys work?
> 
> After doing BIOS updates up and down between A17 and A21 (now at A18) my
> Fn buttons have stopped working which is a pain.
> 
 

Yes, they work fine. 

-- 
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Remember when being discriminate meant carefully choosing?

Linux, super computers, office computers, or home computers, it works. 

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 05:09:18PM +1100, Simon Wong wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-11-16 at 03:10, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > Yeah, I am still at A07 BIOS for my 8100. So far, have seen no reason to
> > upgrade that. S2R works with the nv driver, not for the NVdriver though
> > :( But that's not a BIOS issue AIUI.
> 
> Do your Fn keys work?
> 
> After doing BIOS updates up and down between A17 and A21 (now at A18) my
> Fn buttons have stopped working which is a pain.
> 
 

Yes, they work fine. 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Remember when being discriminate meant carefully choosing?

Linux, super computers, office computers, or home computers, it works. 


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Simon Wong]

On Sat, 2002-11-16 at 03:10, Jim Richardson wrote:
> Yeah, I am still at A07 BIOS for my 8100. So far, have seen no reason to
> upgrade that. S2R works with the nv driver, not for the NVdriver though
> :( But that's not a BIOS issue AIUI.

Do your Fn keys work?

After doing BIOS updates up and down between A17 and A21 (now at A18) my
Fn buttons have stopped working which is a pain.


-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Simon Wong]

On Sat, 2002-11-16 at 03:10, Jim Richardson wrote:
> Yeah, I am still at A07 BIOS for my 8100. So far, have seen no reason to
> upgrade that. S2R works with the nv driver, not for the NVdriver though
> :( But that's not a BIOS issue AIUI.

Do your Fn keys work?

After doing BIOS updates up and down between A17 and A21 (now at A18) my
Fn buttons have stopped working which is a pain.


-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 09:16:01AM -0500, Eric S. Johansson wrote:
> Jim Richardson wrote:
> >Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 
> 
> I'm of the same mind.  I'm very happy with my Dell Inspiron 5000 for 
> hardware support.  Software support can't fog a mirror but other than 
> that they're OK.
> 
> Personally, I will not purchase any laptop with "Mr. eraser head" for a 
> pointing device.  Granted, my hands have been nuked from too many hours 
> on the keyboard but those kind of pointing devices really aggravate my 
> hands.  I also hate that they also put a dimple in the middle of your 
> LCD screen.  Mr. eraser head is evil, evil, evil!
> 
> ---eric
> 
 

That's kind of funny. One of the reasons I liked the 8100, was the
titmouse, I didn't like the track pad. But after using it for a while,
I prefer the trackpad now. Go figure. 



-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. 

Lintel, because you can't rely on windows to support heavy loads.

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 04:18:35PM +1100, Simon Wong wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:53, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 
> 
> On the whole me too.
> 
> Have had some problems with BIOS updates so my only suggestions is don;t
> unless you really need to.
> 
> Otherwise their hardware is nice and standard so very compatible.
> 
 

Yeah, I am still at A07 BIOS for my 8100. So far, have seen no reason to
upgrade that. S2R works with the nv driver, not for the NVdriver though
:( But that's not a BIOS issue AIUI.

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. 

Lintel, because you can't rely on windows to support heavy loads.

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 10:00:08AM -0400, Derek Broughton wrote:
> From: "Simon Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:53, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > > Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100.
> >
> > On the whole me too.
> >
> > Have had some problems with BIOS updates so my only suggestions is don;t
> > unless you really need to.
> >
> > Otherwise their hardware is nice and standard so very compatible.
> 
> I don't think (though I'm willing to be corrected) that they have produced a
> proper ACPI-compatible BIOS yet - and most of the newer machines don't support
> apm.
> 
 

Maybe, dunno, I do know that my 8100 supports APM fine. 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. 

Lintel, because you can't rely on windows to support heavy loads.

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 09:16:01AM -0500, Eric S. Johansson wrote:
> Jim Richardson wrote:
> >Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 
> 
> I'm of the same mind.  I'm very happy with my Dell Inspiron 5000 for 
> hardware support.  Software support can't fog a mirror but other than 
> that they're OK.
> 
> Personally, I will not purchase any laptop with "Mr. eraser head" for a 
> pointing device.  Granted, my hands have been nuked from too many hours 
> on the keyboard but those kind of pointing devices really aggravate my 
> hands.  I also hate that they also put a dimple in the middle of your 
> LCD screen.  Mr. eraser head is evil, evil, evil!
> 
> ---eric
> 
 

That's kind of funny. One of the reasons I liked the 8100, was the
titmouse, I didn't like the track pad. But after using it for a while,
I prefer the trackpad now. Go figure. 



-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. 

Lintel, because you can't rely on windows to support heavy loads.


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 04:18:35PM +1100, Simon Wong wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:53, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 
> 
> On the whole me too.
> 
> Have had some problems with BIOS updates so my only suggestions is don;t
> unless you really need to.
> 
> Otherwise their hardware is nice and standard so very compatible.
> 
 

Yeah, I am still at A07 BIOS for my 8100. So far, have seen no reason to
upgrade that. S2R works with the nv driver, not for the NVdriver though
:( But that's not a BIOS issue AIUI.

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. 

Lintel, because you can't rely on windows to support heavy loads.


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 10:00:08AM -0400, Derek Broughton wrote:
> From: "Simon Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:53, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > > Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100.
> >
> > On the whole me too.
> >
> > Have had some problems with BIOS updates so my only suggestions is don;t
> > unless you really need to.
> >
> > Otherwise their hardware is nice and standard so very compatible.
> 
> I don't think (though I'm willing to be corrected) that they have produced a
> proper ACPI-compatible BIOS yet - and most of the newer machines don't support
> apm.
> 
 

Maybe, dunno, I do know that my 8100 supports APM fine. 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. 

Lintel, because you can't rely on windows to support heavy loads.


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Re: Which laptop.....

[b.lemke]

Ron Sinclair wrote:


On Friday 15 November 2002 07:33, Richard Ibbotson wrote:

 


This month's LJ has a feature written by Heather Mead which starts
with a reference to Toshiba and their insistence that you shall use
M$ products on their laptops.   Heather would like us to have a
look at..

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6318

personally I took the hint and put Debian 3.0 into my Toshiba
Libretto.  A friend of mine also installs Linux of any sort into
any Toshiba hardware that he finds :)
   



When I first started looking for a laptop, I'd asked all my Linux 
friends what experiences they'd had with laptops and Linux.  I got a 
Toshiba based on the feedback I got, or lack of negative feedback, 
that is.


I own a Toshiba Satellite 1805-S274 and keep notes on it at 
http://www.wigglit.com/toshiba_notes.html.  There are 2 or 3 other 
Toshibas of this model listed at http://www.linux-laptop.net.  It's 
interesting that each of those (and my) websites notes particular 
problems with this model but the problems don't seem consistent 
between the involved webmasters.  I mean, I don't have half the 
problems that those webmasters have with their Toshibas.  APM works 
without a hitch, and I've no CPU overheating problems (reflashing the 
BIOS took care of that).  

Alot of Linux laptop users out there are quick to condemn a brand of 
notebook because they think they are so Linux-smart that it MUST be a 
problem with the laptop or the distribution...when usually its a 
problem with the operator.


It must also be noted that no one considers the feat of being able to 
carry a full-blown computer around nowadays.  Having that much 
computer power in your bag or backpack while traveling is just 
amazing, but its become so commonplace that I think people are numb 
to the wow factor...everything that affects a normal computer is 
multiplied exponentially with a notebook.  There are bound to be 
problems with certain makes/models, due to design flaws or just plain 
physics.  People are so pampered nowadays that all they want to see 
are positive results.


I've not tried Debian on this laptop yet, although I've run Libranet 
1.9.1 on it.  It's currently running Slackware 8.1.  I'm so 
tempted to try a Debian install on it but its running pretty much 
perfectly at the moment...I'd hate to ruin that serenity.  :o)


 

For Toshibalaptops there is good site to have a look for 
hardwarecompatibility and what the knowen problem are,installing linux 
or other os on it:

http://newsletter.toshiba-tro.de/main

Re: Which laptop.....

[b.lemke]

Ron Sinclair wrote:


On Friday 15 November 2002 07:33, Richard Ibbotson wrote:

 

This month's LJ has a feature written by Heather Mead which starts
with a reference to Toshiba and their insistence that you shall use
M$ products on their laptops.   Heather would like us to have a
look at..

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6318

personally I took the hint and put Debian 3.0 into my Toshiba
Libretto.  A friend of mine also installs Linux of any sort into
any Toshiba hardware that he finds :)
   


When I first started looking for a laptop, I'd asked all my Linux 
friends what experiences they'd had with laptops and Linux.  I got a 
Toshiba based on the feedback I got, or lack of negative feedback, 
that is.

I own a Toshiba Satellite 1805-S274 and keep notes on it at 
http://www.wigglit.com/toshiba_notes.html.  There are 2 or 3 other 
Toshibas of this model listed at http://www.linux-laptop.net.  It's 
interesting that each of those (and my) websites notes particular 
problems with this model but the problems don't seem consistent 
between the involved webmasters.  I mean, I don't have half the 
problems that those webmasters have with their Toshibas.  APM works 
without a hitch, and I've no CPU overheating problems (reflashing the 
BIOS took care of that).  

Alot of Linux laptop users out there are quick to condemn a brand of 
notebook because they think they are so Linux-smart that it MUST be a 
problem with the laptop or the distribution...when usually its a 
problem with the operator.

It must also be noted that no one considers the feat of being able to 
carry a full-blown computer around nowadays.  Having that much 
computer power in your bag or backpack while traveling is just 
amazing, but its become so commonplace that I think people are numb 
to the wow factor...everything that affects a normal computer is 
multiplied exponentially with a notebook.  There are bound to be 
problems with certain makes/models, due to design flaws or just plain 
physics.  People are so pampered nowadays that all they want to see 
are positive results.

I've not tried Debian on this laptop yet, although I've run Libranet 
1.9.1 on it.  It's currently running Slackware 8.1.  I'm so 
tempted to try a Debian install on it but its running pretty much 
perfectly at the moment...I'd hate to ruin that serenity.  :o)

 

For Toshibalaptops there is good site to have a look for 
hardwarecompatibility and what the knowen problem are,installing linux 
or other os on it:
http://newsletter.toshiba-tro.de/main






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Re: Which laptop.....

[Ron Sinclair]

On Friday 15 November 2002 07:33, Richard Ibbotson wrote:

> This month's LJ has a feature written by Heather Mead which starts
> with a reference to Toshiba and their insistence that you shall use
> M$ products on their laptops.   Heather would like us to have a
> look at..
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6318
>
> personally I took the hint and put Debian 3.0 into my Toshiba
> Libretto.  A friend of mine also installs Linux of any sort into
> any Toshiba hardware that he finds :)

When I first started looking for a laptop, I'd asked all my Linux 
friends what experiences they'd had with laptops and Linux.  I got a 
Toshiba based on the feedback I got, or lack of negative feedback, 
that is.

I own a Toshiba Satellite 1805-S274 and keep notes on it at 
http://www.wigglit.com/toshiba_notes.html.  There are 2 or 3 other 
Toshibas of this model listed at http://www.linux-laptop.net.  It's 
interesting that each of those (and my) websites notes particular 
problems with this model but the problems don't seem consistent 
between the involved webmasters.  I mean, I don't have half the 
problems that those webmasters have with their Toshibas.  APM works 
without a hitch, and I've no CPU overheating problems (reflashing the 
BIOS took care of that).  

Alot of Linux laptop users out there are quick to condemn a brand of 
notebook because they think they are so Linux-smart that it MUST be a 
problem with the laptop or the distribution...when usually its a 
problem with the operator.

It must also be noted that no one considers the feat of being able to 
carry a full-blown computer around nowadays.  Having that much 
computer power in your bag or backpack while traveling is just 
amazing, but its become so commonplace that I think people are numb 
to the wow factor...everything that affects a normal computer is 
multiplied exponentially with a notebook.  There are bound to be 
problems with certain makes/models, due to design flaws or just plain 
physics.  People are so pampered nowadays that all they want to see 
are positive results.

I've not tried Debian on this laptop yet, although I've run Libranet 
1.9.1 on it.  It's currently running Slackware 8.1.  I'm so 
tempted to try a Debian install on it but its running pretty much 
perfectly at the moment...I'd hate to ruin that serenity.  :o)

-- 
Ron aka W|GGL|T
http://www.wigglit.com

Re: Which laptop.....

[Ron Sinclair]

On Friday 15 November 2002 07:33, Richard Ibbotson wrote:

> This month's LJ has a feature written by Heather Mead which starts
> with a reference to Toshiba and their insistence that you shall use
> M$ products on their laptops.   Heather would like us to have a
> look at..
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6318
>
> personally I took the hint and put Debian 3.0 into my Toshiba
> Libretto.  A friend of mine also installs Linux of any sort into
> any Toshiba hardware that he finds :)

When I first started looking for a laptop, I'd asked all my Linux 
friends what experiences they'd had with laptops and Linux.  I got a 
Toshiba based on the feedback I got, or lack of negative feedback, 
that is.

I own a Toshiba Satellite 1805-S274 and keep notes on it at 
http://www.wigglit.com/toshiba_notes.html.  There are 2 or 3 other 
Toshibas of this model listed at http://www.linux-laptop.net.  It's 
interesting that each of those (and my) websites notes particular 
problems with this model but the problems don't seem consistent 
between the involved webmasters.  I mean, I don't have half the 
problems that those webmasters have with their Toshibas.  APM works 
without a hitch, and I've no CPU overheating problems (reflashing the 
BIOS took care of that).  

Alot of Linux laptop users out there are quick to condemn a brand of 
notebook because they think they are so Linux-smart that it MUST be a 
problem with the laptop or the distribution...when usually its a 
problem with the operator.

It must also be noted that no one considers the feat of being able to 
carry a full-blown computer around nowadays.  Having that much 
computer power in your bag or backpack while traveling is just 
amazing, but its become so commonplace that I think people are numb 
to the wow factor...everything that affects a normal computer is 
multiplied exponentially with a notebook.  There are bound to be 
problems with certain makes/models, due to design flaws or just plain 
physics.  People are so pampered nowadays that all they want to see 
are positive results.

I've not tried Debian on this laptop yet, although I've run Libranet 
1.9.1 on it.  It's currently running Slackware 8.1.  I'm so 
tempted to try a Debian install on it but its running pretty much 
perfectly at the moment...I'd hate to ruin that serenity.  :o)

-- 
Ron aka W|GGL|T
http://www.wigglit.com


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Re: Which laptop.....

[Richard Ibbotson]

Hi

Off topic but related

This month's LJ has a feature written by Heather Mead which starts 
with a reference to Toshiba and their insistence that you shall use 
M$ products on their laptops.   Heather would like us to have a look 
at..

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6318

personally I took the hint and put Debian 3.0 into my Toshiba 
Libretto.  A friend of mine also installs Linux of any sort into any 
Toshiba hardware that he finds :)

-- 
Thanks



Richard
www.sheflug.co.uk

Re: Which laptop.....

[Jean Delvare]

> > >  Another question: how good/bad is Crusoe processor???
> Linus Torvalds has something to do with them IIRC...

Actually, he works for Transmeta, and they made the Crusoe.

-- 
Jean Delvare
http://www.ensicaen.ismra.fr/~delvare/

Re: Which laptop.....

[Nyk Tarr]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:28:00PM -0800, Heather Stern wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 04:02:46PM +0100, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:
> > Hi!!!
> >  Another question: how good/bad is Crusoe processor???
>  
> Must be tasty, it's got two major competitors in teh tablet market and
> it's still on the charts at all.

Linus Torvalds has something to do with them IIRC...

-- 
/__
\_|\/
   /\

Re: Which laptop.....

[Richard Ibbotson]

Hi

Off topic but related

This month's LJ has a feature written by Heather Mead which starts 
with a reference to Toshiba and their insistence that you shall use 
M$ products on their laptops.   Heather would like us to have a look 
at..

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6318

personally I took the hint and put Debian 3.0 into my Toshiba 
Libretto.  A friend of mine also installs Linux of any sort into any 
Toshiba hardware that he finds :)

-- 
Thanks



Richard
www.sheflug.co.uk


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Re: Which laptop.....

[Jean Delvare]

> > >  Another question: how good/bad is Crusoe processor???
> Linus Torvalds has something to do with them IIRC...

Actually, he works for Transmeta, and they made the Crusoe.

-- 
Jean Delvare
http://www.ensicaen.ismra.fr/~delvare/


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Re: Which laptop.....

[Nyk Tarr]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:28:00PM -0800, Heather Stern wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 04:02:46PM +0100, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:
> > Hi!!!
> >  Another question: how good/bad is Crusoe processor???
>  
> Must be tasty, it's got two major competitors in teh tablet market and
> it's still on the charts at all.

Linus Torvalds has something to do with them IIRC...

-- 
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\_|\/
   /\


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Preben Randhol]

Derek Broughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (20:09) :
> My sentiments exactly.  I'm very happy with my Dell, but I don't
> expect any help from them.

I'm happy with my Dell too although it wouldn't hurt if the battry status
could be checked. :-) But if I'm going to buy a new laptop I would like
to buy it from somebody that also consideres Linux.

Note I'm not talking about software support. Only to get the machine to work.

-- 
Preben Randhol  http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
«There are three things you can do to a woman. You can love her, suffer
 for her, or turn her into literature.»  - Justine, by Lawrence Durrell

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Preben Randhol]

Derek Broughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (20:09) :
> My sentiments exactly.  I'm very happy with my Dell, but I don't
> expect any help from them.

I'm happy with my Dell too although it wouldn't hurt if the battry status
could be checked. :-) But if I'm going to buy a new laptop I would like
to buy it from somebody that also consideres Linux.

Note I'm not talking about software support. Only to get the machine to work.

-- 
Preben Randhol  http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
«There are three things you can do to a woman. You can love her, suffer
 for her, or turn her into literature.»  - Justine, by Lawrence Durrell


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Re: Which laptop.....

[Heather Stern]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 04:02:46PM +0100, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:
> Hi!!!
>  Another question: how good/bad is Crusoe processor???
 
Must be tasty, it's got two major competitors in teh tablet market and
it's still on the charts at all.

>  Debian and/or  Linux support?
 
Pretends to be a PC.  No noisy fan.   This fellow did alright with
Potato;  it's probably easier nowadays:

   Linkname: Linux on the Fujitsu LifeBook P2020
   URL:
   http://linuxonlaptops.sourceforge.net/brand/Fujitsu/model/LIFEBOOK_P-2020/

Enjoy


* Heather Stern * star@ many places...
* Starshine Technical Services -*- 800 938 4078

Re: Which laptop.....

[Heather Stern]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 04:02:46PM +0100, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:
> Hi!!!
>  Another question: how good/bad is Crusoe processor???
 
Must be tasty, it's got two major competitors in teh tablet market and
it's still on the charts at all.

>  Debian and/or  Linux support?
 
Pretends to be a PC.  No noisy fan.   This fellow did alright with
Potato;  it's probably easier nowadays:

   Linkname: Linux on the Fujitsu LifeBook P2020
   URL:
   http://linuxonlaptops.sourceforge.net/brand/Fujitsu/model/LIFEBOOK_P-2020/

Enjoy


* Heather Stern * star@ many places...
* Starshine Technical Services -*- 800 938 4078


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Harald Arnesen]

"Eric S. Johansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Personally, I will not purchase any laptop with "Mr. eraser head" for
> a pointing device.  Granted, my hands have been nuked from too many
> hours on the keyboard but those kind of pointing devices really
> aggravate my hands.  I also hate that they also put a dimple in the
> middle of your LCD screen.  Mr. eraser head is evil, evil, evil!

That's a matter of taste. For me, it's the only acceptable pointing
device apart from a standard mouse. And I can't see a trace of it on my
screen. 

But only IBM's are really good, Toshibas not of the same standard at
all.

Touchpads are (for me) totally unusable, trackballs just a little
better.
-- 
Hilsen Harald.

Re: Which laptop.....

[Lukas Ruf]

Hi,



On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:

> 
>  Debian and/or  Linux support?

have you already checked http://www.linux-laptop.org/ ?

I do not know if this has already been posted -- if so, pardon the
noise...

wbr,
Lukas
-- 
Lukas Ruf
http://www.lpr.ch http://www.maremma.ch
http://www.{{topsy,nodeos}.net,{promethos,netbeast,rawip}.org}
Wanna know anything about raw ip? Join [EMAIL PROTECTED] on www.rawip.org

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Eric S. Johansson]

Jim Richardson wrote:
Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 


I'm of the same mind.  I'm very happy with my Dell Inspiron 5000 for 
hardware support.  Software support can't fog a mirror but other than 
that they're OK.


Personally, I will not purchase any laptop with "Mr. eraser head" for a 
pointing device.  Granted, my hands have been nuked from too many hours 
on the keyboard but those kind of pointing devices really aggravate my 
hands.  I also hate that they also put a dimple in the middle of your 
LCD screen.  Mr. eraser head is evil, evil, evil!


---eric

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Derek Broughton]

From: "Simon Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:53, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100.
>
> On the whole me too.
>
> Have had some problems with BIOS updates so my only suggestions is don;t
> unless you really need to.
>
> Otherwise their hardware is nice and standard so very compatible.

I don't think (though I'm willing to be corrected) that they have produced a
proper ACPI-compatible BIOS yet - and most of the newer machines don't support
apm.

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Harald Arnesen]

"Eric S. Johansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Personally, I will not purchase any laptop with "Mr. eraser head" for
> a pointing device.  Granted, my hands have been nuked from too many
> hours on the keyboard but those kind of pointing devices really
> aggravate my hands.  I also hate that they also put a dimple in the
> middle of your LCD screen.  Mr. eraser head is evil, evil, evil!

That's a matter of taste. For me, it's the only acceptable pointing
device apart from a standard mouse. And I can't see a trace of it on my
screen. 

But only IBM's are really good, Toshibas not of the same standard at
all.

Touchpads are (for me) totally unusable, trackballs just a little
better.
-- 
Hilsen Harald.


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Re: Which laptop.....

[Lukas Ruf]

Hi,



On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:

> 
>  Debian and/or  Linux support?

have you already checked http://www.linux-laptop.org/ ?

I do not know if this has already been posted -- if so, pardon the
noise...

wbr,
Lukas
-- 
Lukas Ruf
http://www.lpr.ch http://www.maremma.ch
http://www.{{topsy,nodeos}.net,{promethos,netbeast,rawip}.org}
Wanna know anything about raw ip? Join [EMAIL PROTECTED] on www.rawip.org


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Eric S. Johansson]

Jim Richardson wrote:

Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 

I'm of the same mind.  I'm very happy with my Dell Inspiron 5000 for 
hardware support.  Software support can't fog a mirror but other than 
that they're OK.

Personally, I will not purchase any laptop with "Mr. eraser head" for a 
pointing device.  Granted, my hands have been nuked from too many hours 
on the keyboard but those kind of pointing devices really aggravate my 
hands.  I also hate that they also put a dimple in the middle of your 
LCD screen.  Mr. eraser head is evil, evil, evil!

---eric






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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Derek Broughton]

From: "Simon Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:53, Jim Richardson wrote:
> > Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100.
>
> On the whole me too.
>
> Have had some problems with BIOS updates so my only suggestions is don;t
> unless you really need to.
>
> Otherwise their hardware is nice and standard so very compatible.

I don't think (though I'm willing to be corrected) that they have produced a
proper ACPI-compatible BIOS yet - and most of the newer machines don't support
apm.


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Re: Which laptop!!! (Knoppix.org!!!)

[Robert Michel]

On Wednesday, 13. November 2002 18:15, Lukas Ruf wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:
> >  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
> >
> >  What i want to do (with Debian):
>
> the easiest way: take a recent Debian CD with you.  Go into a shop and
> ask the seller to have the Debian installed.  Nowadays with the
> current economic situation this works sometimes -- depending on the
> shop.
>
> wbr,
> Lukas

Salve Lukas,

Why installation?

If you want to check an laptop from a friend or seller,
the Live Linux: Knoppix  (based on Debian) have an great hardwarereconition,
it boots in 3 minutes on most PC from one CD without touching the hd.
http://www.knoppix.org
In spain:
http://www.cylnux.org/knoppix-es/

Gruesse aus Aachen,
rob

Re: Which laptop!!! (Knoppix.org!!!)

[Robert Michel]

On Wednesday, 13. November 2002 18:15, Lukas Ruf wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:
> >  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
> >
> >  What i want to do (with Debian):
>
> the easiest way: take a recent Debian CD with you.  Go into a shop and
> ask the seller to have the Debian installed.  Nowadays with the
> current economic situation this works sometimes -- depending on the
> shop.
>
> wbr,
> Lukas

Salve Lukas,

Why installation?

If you want to check an laptop from a friend or seller,
the Live Linux: Knoppix  (based on Debian) have an great hardwarereconition,
it boots in 3 minutes on most PC from one CD without touching the hd.
http://www.knoppix.org
In spain:
http://www.cylnux.org/knoppix-es/

Gruesse aus Aachen,
rob


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Simon Wong]

On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:53, Jim Richardson wrote:
> Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 

On the whole me too.

Have had some problems with BIOS updates so my only suggestions is don;t
unless you really need to.

Otherwise their hardware is nice and standard so very compatible.

-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Simon Wong]

On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:53, Jim Richardson wrote:
> Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 

On the whole me too.

Have had some problems with BIOS updates so my only suggestions is don;t
unless you really need to.

Otherwise their hardware is nice and standard so very compatible.

-- 
**
* Simon Wong *
**


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 02:35:27PM +0100, Preben Randhol wrote:
> I?aki Mart?nez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (14:16) :
> >   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
> 
> Stay clear of Dell. Somebody told me that Acer had good custom support.
> You can check if there are some models there.
> 
> But check: http://www.linux-laptop.net/
> 
 

Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. 

Lintel, because you can't rely on windows to support heavy loads.

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jim Richardson]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 02:35:27PM +0100, Preben Randhol wrote:
> I?aki Mart?nez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (14:16) :
> >   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
> 
> Stay clear of Dell. Somebody told me that Acer had good custom support.
> You can check if there are some models there.
> 
> But check: http://www.linux-laptop.net/
> 
 

Why steer clear of Dell? I have been quite happy with my Inspiron 8100. 

-- 
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. 

Lintel, because you can't rely on windows to support heavy loads.


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jean Delvare]

> In addition Sony is on record as Linux-hostile.
I can confirm that, owning one. Want a proof? See here:
http://www.ensicaen.ismra.fr/~delvare/vaio/no-support.html

-- 
Jean Delvare
http://www.ensicaen.ismra.fr/~delvare/

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jean Delvare]

> In addition Sony is on record as Linux-hostile.
I can confirm that, owning one. Want a proof? See here:
http://www.ensicaen.ismra.fr/~delvare/vaio/no-support.html

-- 
Jean Delvare
http://www.ensicaen.ismra.fr/~delvare/


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Re: Which laptop!!! (addenda)

[Heather Stern]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 02:35:27PM +0100, Preben Randhol wrote:
> I?aki Mart?nez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (14:16) :
> >   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
> 
> Stay clear of Dell. 

I'd like to note that Dell buys their laptops from a few suppliers;
some of these machines are obviously better than others.

But since those suppliers also sell elsewhere... you may be able to
get these systems as preloads from a smaller VAR.

> Somebody told me that Acer had good custom support.
> You can check if there are some models there.
 
No knowledge either direction on that one.

However I'd like to add that while Toshiba doesn't appear to be too
helpful on its own, I know a handful of happily devoted Libretto users
running Debian.  All the ones that asked me directly for help, we ended
up needing to take the drive out and temporarily mount it in a desktop
to get it settled in, and on one we needed a reboot from a tomsrtbt 
floppy when it was libretto-installed to get LILO settled happily, but
Debian runs great.  At this point you cannot pry it from their libretto
without incurring personal injury, or using knockout drops on them ;P 

Then I recalled why I forgot to mention 'em.

You haven't mentioned what size your hands are.  This can make a big
difference, much more than many new laptop users realize.  It's even
worse than eyestrain from odd case angles, to find that after a few
hours every day you have hand cramps.  (I don't suffer this problem
myself - I have small hands.  But it's worth noting.)

* Heather Stern * star@ many places...
* Starshine Technical Services -*- 800 938 4078

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Heather Stern]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 02:12:56PM +0100, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:
> Hi!!!
> 
>  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
> 
>  What i want to do (with Debian):
> 
>   * Read emails with mutt
>   * Program C and/or C++ applications with SDL
> If possible using anjuta if not any text editor
>   * Test SDL applications (with or whithout X)
> using SVGAlib or Framebuffer or any else.
 
In short anything whose textmode is acceptable and whose VESA
performs correctly would be sufficient.
 
>  Requirements (in order of importance):
> 
>   * Weight (as less as possible)

IBM has some rather light models.

>   * RAM 256 (128 Minimum)
>   * Video if posible **NOT** SHARED memory

Avoid anything claiming the i810 or 1815 chipset.  If you have the
chance to go to a store and shop around the (probably running MSwin)
models, look in their control panel for what video chip they are
using.

People have had a lot of fuss getting Trident Cyberblades going, so
I'd avoid that one too.  Savage used to be a headache but seems to have 
settled down.

>   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.

Once the PCMCIA bus is acceptable it's just a matter of getting the 
right card.

To your advantage IBM is "on the bandwagon" and their laptops probably
work ok in that regard.

>   * I can buy in Europe if possible in Spain
> 
>  I have seen this models...
> 
>  Sony Vaio PictureBook

Aaargh.  Please avoid Sony.  4 of my friends have had various models
and they are all a pain to configure neatly;  once configured, all the
lightweight ones are flimsy and need either great care or occasional
repairs.  One really kicked himself for getting another Sony as an
upgrade, and plans to never go back.

In addition Sony is on record as Linux-hostile.

>  Fujitsu P2000 Series

I've always liked the characteristics on their Lifebook series.

>  Asus M2000 Series

I've had my hands on older ASUS systems and found them enjoyable.

>  and several others

Check out Kenneth Harker's list at http://www.linux-laptop.net (note
singular, or you'll end up in some opportunistic store that bought
the name-next-door)  and Werner Hauser's list at www.mobilix.org.
For that matter you might be able to buy a preconfig from Werner;
he's at least in Europe.


* Heather Stern * star@ many places...
* Starshine Technical Services -*- 800 938 4078

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Derek Broughton]

From: "Preben Randhol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> "Jean-Marc V. Liotier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (15:11) :
> > Could you please substantiate that with some facts ? I agree that Dell
> > is not the best for reliability (they don't survive rough nomadic lives,
> > although they are fine as movable desktops) and that given enough cash I
> > would rather buy from IBM. But we have a gaggle of Dell laptops and find
> > them to be a good compromise given the price. I'm currently typing on an
> > Inspiron 4000 with Debian and I am quite satisfied. But then I never
> > asked Dell for Linux support : all I have done I did myself with a
> > little community support.
>
> http://www.lanfear.com/dell/
>
> According to one that had this laptop The point is that you get the
> answer : "We don't support Linux" from Dell, while from Acer they said
> he could return the laptop if it didn't work with Linux.
>
My sentiments exactly.  I'm very happy with my Dell, but I don't expect any help
from them.

Re: Which laptop!!! (addenda)

[Heather Stern]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 02:35:27PM +0100, Preben Randhol wrote:
> I?aki Mart?nez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (14:16) :
> >   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
> 
> Stay clear of Dell. 

I'd like to note that Dell buys their laptops from a few suppliers;
some of these machines are obviously better than others.

But since those suppliers also sell elsewhere... you may be able to
get these systems as preloads from a smaller VAR.

> Somebody told me that Acer had good custom support.
> You can check if there are some models there.
 
No knowledge either direction on that one.

However I'd like to add that while Toshiba doesn't appear to be too
helpful on its own, I know a handful of happily devoted Libretto users
running Debian.  All the ones that asked me directly for help, we ended
up needing to take the drive out and temporarily mount it in a desktop
to get it settled in, and on one we needed a reboot from a tomsrtbt 
floppy when it was libretto-installed to get LILO settled happily, but
Debian runs great.  At this point you cannot pry it from their libretto
without incurring personal injury, or using knockout drops on them ;P 

Then I recalled why I forgot to mention 'em.

You haven't mentioned what size your hands are.  This can make a big
difference, much more than many new laptop users realize.  It's even
worse than eyestrain from odd case angles, to find that after a few
hours every day you have hand cramps.  (I don't suffer this problem
myself - I have small hands.  But it's worth noting.)

* Heather Stern * star@ many places...
* Starshine Technical Services -*- 800 938 4078


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Heather Stern]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 02:12:56PM +0100, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:
> Hi!!!
> 
>  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
> 
>  What i want to do (with Debian):
> 
>   * Read emails with mutt
>   * Program C and/or C++ applications with SDL
> If possible using anjuta if not any text editor
>   * Test SDL applications (with or whithout X)
> using SVGAlib or Framebuffer or any else.
 
In short anything whose textmode is acceptable and whose VESA
performs correctly would be sufficient.
 
>  Requirements (in order of importance):
> 
>   * Weight (as less as possible)

IBM has some rather light models.

>   * RAM 256 (128 Minimum)
>   * Video if posible **NOT** SHARED memory

Avoid anything claiming the i810 or 1815 chipset.  If you have the
chance to go to a store and shop around the (probably running MSwin)
models, look in their control panel for what video chip they are
using.

People have had a lot of fuss getting Trident Cyberblades going, so
I'd avoid that one too.  Savage used to be a headache but seems to have 
settled down.

>   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.

Once the PCMCIA bus is acceptable it's just a matter of getting the 
right card.

To your advantage IBM is "on the bandwagon" and their laptops probably
work ok in that regard.

>   * I can buy in Europe if possible in Spain
> 
>  I have seen this models...
> 
>  Sony Vaio PictureBook

Aaargh.  Please avoid Sony.  4 of my friends have had various models
and they are all a pain to configure neatly;  once configured, all the
lightweight ones are flimsy and need either great care or occasional
repairs.  One really kicked himself for getting another Sony as an
upgrade, and plans to never go back.

In addition Sony is on record as Linux-hostile.

>  Fujitsu P2000 Series

I've always liked the characteristics on their Lifebook series.

>  Asus M2000 Series

I've had my hands on older ASUS systems and found them enjoyable.

>  and several others

Check out Kenneth Harker's list at http://www.linux-laptop.net (note
singular, or you'll end up in some opportunistic store that bought
the name-next-door)  and Werner Hauser's list at www.mobilix.org.
For that matter you might be able to buy a preconfig from Werner;
he's at least in Europe.


* Heather Stern * star@ many places...
* Starshine Technical Services -*- 800 938 4078


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Lukas Ruf]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:

>  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
> 
>  What i want to do (with Debian):
> 
the easiest way: take a recent Debian CD with you.  Go into a shop and
ask the seller to have the Debian installed.  Nowadays with the
current economic situation this works sometimes -- depending on the
shop.

wbr,
Lukas
-- 
Lukas Ruf
http://www.lpr.ch http://www.maremma.ch
http://www.{{topsy,nodeos}.net,{promethos,netbeast,rawip}.org}
Wanna know anything about raw ip? Join [EMAIL PROTECTED] on www.rawip.org

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Derek Broughton]

From: "Preben Randhol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> "Jean-Marc V. Liotier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (15:11) :
> > Could you please substantiate that with some facts ? I agree that Dell
> > is not the best for reliability (they don't survive rough nomadic lives,
> > although they are fine as movable desktops) and that given enough cash I
> > would rather buy from IBM. But we have a gaggle of Dell laptops and find
> > them to be a good compromise given the price. I'm currently typing on an
> > Inspiron 4000 with Debian and I am quite satisfied. But then I never
> > asked Dell for Linux support : all I have done I did myself with a
> > little community support.
>
> http://www.lanfear.com/dell/
>
> According to one that had this laptop The point is that you get the
> answer : "We don't support Linux" from Dell, while from Acer they said
> he could return the laptop if it didn't work with Linux.
>
My sentiments exactly.  I'm very happy with my Dell, but I don't expect any help
from them.


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Harald Arnesen]

Lukas Ruf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> The ONLY brand I can recommend for Debian (and in general) is IBM!
> They provide good support for Open Source projects (Linux Kernel!) --
> this must be honored, and Linux simply runs on every IBM Laptop I have
> seen so far without any pain.

You obviously haven't tried the iSeries 1171.
-- 
Hilsen Harald.

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jean Delvare]

> The ONLY brand I can recommend for Debian (and in general) is IBM!
> They provide good support for Open Source projects (Linux Kernel!) --
> this must be honored, and Linux simply runs on every IBM Laptop I have
> seen so far without any pain.

Not true. There has been an awful problem with LM Sensors (temperature
and voltage sensors for Linux) on Thinkpads. Some Thinkpads could be
simply broken by scanning the I2C bus [1]. The LM Sensors asked IBM for
help about this issue an. The whole thing must have started 2 or 3 years
ago, they are still waiting for a real support.

Now, I agree that IBM makes a lot for Linux, but this story made me a
bit angry against them, I admit it.


[1] http://www2.lm-sensors.nu/~lm78/cvs/lm_sensors2/README.thinkpad

-- 
Jean Delvare
http://www.ensicaen.ismra.fr/~delvare/

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Harald Arnesen]

Lukas Ruf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> The ONLY brand I can recommend for Debian (and in general) is IBM!
> They provide good support for Open Source projects (Linux Kernel!) --
> this must be honored, and Linux simply runs on every IBM Laptop I have
> seen so far without any pain.

You obviously haven't tried the iSeries 1171.
-- 
Hilsen Harald.


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Preben Randhol]

"Jean-Marc V. Liotier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (15:11) :
> Could you please substantiate that with some facts ? I agree that Dell
> is not the best for reliability (they don't survive rough nomadic lives,
> although they are fine as movable desktops) and that given enough cash I
> would rather buy from IBM. But we have a gaggle of Dell laptops and find
> them to be a good compromise given the price. I'm currently typing on an
> Inspiron 4000 with Debian and I am quite satisfied. But then I never
> asked Dell for Linux support : all I have done I did myself with a
> little community support.

http://www.lanfear.com/dell/

According to one that had this laptop The point is that you get the
answer : "We don't support Linux" from Dell, while from Acer they said
he could return the laptop if it didn't work with Linux.

-- 
Preben Randhol  http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
«There are three things you can do to a woman. You can love her, suffer
 for her, or turn her into literature.»  - Justine, by Lawrence Durrell

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jean Delvare]

> The ONLY brand I can recommend for Debian (and in general) is IBM!
> They provide good support for Open Source projects (Linux Kernel!) --
> this must be honored, and Linux simply runs on every IBM Laptop I have
> seen so far without any pain.

Not true. There has been an awful problem with LM Sensors (temperature
and voltage sensors for Linux) on Thinkpads. Some Thinkpads could be
simply broken by scanning the I2C bus [1]. The LM Sensors asked IBM for
help about this issue an. The whole thing must have started 2 or 3 years
ago, they are still waiting for a real support.

Now, I agree that IBM makes a lot for Linux, but this story made me a
bit angry against them, I admit it.


[1] http://www2.lm-sensors.nu/~lm78/cvs/lm_sensors2/README.thinkpad

-- 
Jean Delvare
http://www.ensicaen.ismra.fr/~delvare/


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Preben Randhol]

"Jean-Marc V. Liotier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (15:11) :
> Could you please substantiate that with some facts ? I agree that Dell
> is not the best for reliability (they don't survive rough nomadic lives,
> although they are fine as movable desktops) and that given enough cash I
> would rather buy from IBM. But we have a gaggle of Dell laptops and find
> them to be a good compromise given the price. I'm currently typing on an
> Inspiron 4000 with Debian and I am quite satisfied. But then I never
> asked Dell for Linux support : all I have done I did myself with a
> little community support.

http://www.lanfear.com/dell/

According to one that had this laptop The point is that you get the
answer : "We don't support Linux" from Dell, while from Acer they said
he could return the laptop if it didn't work with Linux.

-- 
Preben Randhol  http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
«There are three things you can do to a woman. You can love her, suffer
 for her, or turn her into literature.»  - Justine, by Lawrence Durrell


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jeremy Petzold]

Sony makes good notebooks, but the picture book is very small and if you are
doinf programming, you should get somthing in the fx series

I use an HPzt1130 (to get sound you need to add the acpi patch and compile
all acpi into the kernel...a lot of laptops are like this)
- Original Message -
From: "Iñaki Martínez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:12 AM
Subject: Which laptop!!!


> Hi!!!
>
>  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
>
>  What i want to do (with Debian):
>
>   * Read emails with mutt
>   * Program C and/or C++ applications with SDL
> If possible using anjuta if not any text editor
>   * Test SDL applications (with or whithout X)
> using SVGAlib or Framebuffer or any else.
>
>
>  Requirements (in order of importance):
>
>   * Weight (as less as possible)
>   * RAM 256 (128 Minimum)
>   * Video if posible **NOT** SHARED memory
>   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
>   * I can buy in Europe if possible in Spain
>
>
>  I have seen this models...
>
>  Sony Vaio PictureBook
>  Fujitsu P2000 Series
>  Asus M2000 Series
>  and several others
>
>
>  Thanks in advancd.
>
>
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Lukas Ruf]

Hi,

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, I?aki Mart?nez wrote:

> Hi!!!
> 
>  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
> 
>  What i want to do (with Debian):
> 
>   * Read emails with mutt
>   * Program C and/or C++ applications with SDL
> If possible using anjuta if not any text editor
>   * Test SDL applications (with or whithout X)
> using SVGAlib or Framebuffer or any else.
> 
> 
>  Requirements (in order of importance):
> 
>   * Weight (as less as possible)
>   * RAM 256 (128 Minimum)
>   * Video if posible **NOT** SHARED memory
>   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
>   * I can buy in Europe if possible in Spain
> 
> 
>  I have seen this models...
> 
>  Sony Vaio PictureBook
>  Fujitsu P2000 Series
>  Asus M2000 Series
>  and several others
> 
> 
>  Thanks in advancd.
> 
The ONLY brand I can recommend for Debian (and in general) is IBM!
They provide good support for Open Source projects (Linux Kernel!) --
this must be honored, and Linux simply runs on every IBM Laptop I have
seen so far without any pain.

However, I spent a couple of days already just installing fucked up
Dells and Compaqs...  I do not know of any real support by them for
the Open Source development! (Maybe they provide servers, but common,
this is just a gadget.  Real support is development-man-power)

However, it's up to you!

wbr,
Lukas
PS: And it's like everywhere: You get what you pay!
-- 
Lukas Ruf
http://www.lpr.ch http://www.maremma.ch
http://www.{{topsy,nodeos}.net,{promethos,netbeast,rawip}.org}
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Re: Which laptop!!!

[cyn]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] I?aki Mart?nez wrote:

> Hi!!!
>  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
[snip]

Hello, and glad to hear - laptops are mighty handy to[y|ol]s

>  Requirements (in order of importance):
>
>   * Weight (as less as possible)
>   * RAM 256 (128 Minimum)
>   * Video if posible **NOT** SHARED memory
>   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
>   * I can buy in Europe if possible in Spain
>
>  I have seen this models...
>
>  Sony Vaio PictureBook
>  Fujitsu P2000 Series
>  Asus M2000 Series
>  and several others

From the models you list, it seems like size and weight are of most
importance, not just weight.  There are many laptops that are quite light,
but still full sized - just very thin.  Personally I never found these to
be "my style" either.  I currently own a Sony Picturebook (rather old
model, p266 64MB ram) and I can say that it is a wonderful model.
I must also admit that I've got two dead batteries and two withered
keyboards.  The batteries are due to the memory effect - they're not
actually dead, and that is not an issue in newer models.  The keyboard(s),
however, I fear *are* a quality concern.  When I first got it (used) the
keyboard lasted 14 months - of fairly heavy usage - before keys started
popping  off.  When that got to be too much, and after a very unsuccessful
attempt with epoxy trying to make them not pop off, I bought a
replacement keyboard.  It lasted 4 months.  Warranty was 90 days.  I was
not pleased.

Now it works as a nice always on low-power desktop hooked up to my kvm.
The shame of this is that I don't get to tote it around, or look at it's
beautiful little display.  It also (naturally) swaps when I'm browsing the
web with Opera (quick browser, but a bit of a memory hog) as I run some
services and other things that quickly fill the 64MB ram - definately get
enough ram, I can't stress that enough.

If I were buying today, I would go with the Fujitsu P2XXX series... I
think they recently upped the processor to 933.  I would also max out the
ram, though not through fujitsu, I would make sure the minidimm or
whatever it takes was really the largest available.

Remember - laptops don't have much of an upgrade path, but a maxxed out
machine still has plenty of life to it.  *AND* while a laptop battery may
eventually become useless, it's still a low power machine [though becoming
less and less so as they continue using desktop processors, that's not an
option in B5 notebooks], and while it's not universally the case, more RAM
can often be more beneficial than more processor [swapping is evil!].

-Martin N.

-
This email has been sent as a single line of query, and in no way
indicates the senders interest in or acceptance of any promotions or
"opt-in"'s unless otherwise EXPRESSLY noted.

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jean-Marc V. Liotier]

On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 14:35, Preben Randhol wrote:
> Iñaki Martínez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (14:16) :
> >   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
> 
> Stay clear of Dell. 

Could you please substantiate that with some facts ? I agree that Dell
is not the best for reliability (they don't survive rough nomadic lives,
although they are fine as movable desktops) and that given enough cash I
would rather buy from IBM. But we have a gaggle of Dell laptops and find
them to be a good compromise given the price. I'm currently typing on an
Inspiron 4000 with Debian and I am quite satisfied. But then I never
asked Dell for Linux support : all I have done I did myself with a
little community support.



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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Ross Burton]

On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 13:12, Iñaki Martínez wrote:

>  Requirements (in order of importance):
> 
>   * Weight (as less as possible)
>   * RAM 256 (128 Minimum)
>   * Video if posible **NOT** SHARED memory
>   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
>   * I can buy in Europe if possible in Spain

I have an IBM X22, which I really love. The graphics card, network card,
sound, etc are all supported. I believe the modem is also supported, but
I have never tried it.  It is also very light and small.

The latest model is the X30 which is getting very good reviews -- get
the detailed technical spec from IBM and look at the hardware.

Ross
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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Preben Randhol]

Iñaki Martínez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (14:16) :
>   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.

Stay clear of Dell. Somebody told me that Acer had good custom support.
You can check if there are some models there.

But check: http://www.linux-laptop.net/

-- 
Preben Randhol  http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
«There are three things you can do to a woman. You can love her, suffer
 for her, or turn her into literature.»  - Justine, by Lawrence Durrell

Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jeremy Petzold]

Sony makes good notebooks, but the picture book is very small and if you are
doinf programming, you should get somthing in the fx series

I use an HPzt1130 (to get sound you need to add the acpi patch and compile
all acpi into the kernel...a lot of laptops are like this)
- Original Message -
From: "Iñaki Martínez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:12 AM
Subject: Which laptop!!!


> Hi!!!
>
>  I want to buy a laptop and i do not know which..
>
>  What i want to do (with Debian):
>
>   * Read emails with mutt
>   * Program C and/or C++ applications with SDL
> If possible using anjuta if not any text editor
>   * Test SDL applications (with or whithout X)
> using SVGAlib or Framebuffer or any else.
>
>
>  Requirements (in order of importance):
>
>   * Weight (as less as possible)
>   * RAM 256 (128 Minimum)
>   * Video if posible **NOT** SHARED memory
>   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
>   * I can buy in Europe if possible in Spain
>
>
>  I have seen this models...
>
>  Sony Vaio PictureBook
>  Fujitsu P2000 Series
>  Asus M2000 Series
>  and several others
>
>
>  Thanks in advancd.
>
>
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>


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Re: Which laptop!!!

[Jean-Marc V. Liotier]

On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 14:35, Preben Randhol wrote:
> Iñaki Martínez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2002 (14:16) :
> >   * Linux well supported, PCMCIA, NET, so on.
> 
> Stay clear of Dell. 

Could you please substantiate that with some facts ? I agree that Dell
is not the best for reliability (they don't survive rough nomadic lives,
although they are fine as movable desktops) and that given enough cash I
would rather buy from IBM. But we have a gaggle of Dell laptops and find
them to be a good compromise given the price. I'm currently typing on an
Inspiron 4000 with Debian and I am quite satisfied. But then I never
asked Dell for Linux support : all I have done I did myself with a
little community support.




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Re: which laptop with these features?

[Heather Stern]

> > It's a taller drive.  Still has the tiny-size IDE interface normal on
> > laptop disks, but the taller bay will allow for either older drive bays 
> > (perhaps he intends to slide an already-debian drive into his new
> > machine) or for larger capacities (you can only fit so many platters 
> > on a 9.5mm drive).
> > 
> > Beware also that some manufacturers say 9mm and mean it; they can't take
> > 9.5mm drives either, or they can with a -very- tight fit, and some
> > danger of heating problems.  Mostly those are your pocket-tops; I don't 
> > think you'll have that problem when looking for the bigger-screen systems.
> > 
> > * Heather Stern * star@ many places...
> 
> Ah, I get it...the drive is taller to make room for the thicker
> platters. 

In the case of older drives, yes.

> I was thinking the higher capacity drives used thinner
> platters to make room for more in the same sized drive.
 
They've improved making them (and the corresponding drive heads)
thinner, but you can still cram a few more of the thin platters 
into a 12.5mm drive than a 9.5mm one.  For people who are eager for 
high capacity and mobility at the same time, this can make a big
difference in the pile of stuff you get to carry around;  spare
drives take up space, even more so if you want to defend them 
against being clunked, dropped or tossed around in luggage.
 
> thanks,
> jc

No problem. :)

* Heather Stern * star@ many places...

Re: which laptop with these features?

[Heather Stern]

> > It's a taller drive.  Still has the tiny-size IDE interface normal on
> > laptop disks, but the taller bay will allow for either older drive bays 
> > (perhaps he intends to slide an already-debian drive into his new
> > machine) or for larger capacities (you can only fit so many platters 
> > on a 9.5mm drive).
> > 
> > Beware also that some manufacturers say 9mm and mean it; they can't take
> > 9.5mm drives either, or they can with a -very- tight fit, and some
> > danger of heating problems.  Mostly those are your pocket-tops; I don't 
> > think you'll have that problem when looking for the bigger-screen systems.
> > 
> > * Heather Stern * star@ many places...
> 
> Ah, I get it...the drive is taller to make room for the thicker
> platters. 

In the case of older drives, yes.

> I was thinking the higher capacity drives used thinner
> platters to make room for more in the same sized drive.
 
They've improved making them (and the corresponding drive heads)
thinner, but you can still cram a few more of the thin platters 
into a 12.5mm drive than a 9.5mm one.  For people who are eager for 
high capacity and mobility at the same time, this can make a big
difference in the pile of stuff you get to carry around;  spare
drives take up space, even more so if you want to defend them 
against being clunked, dropped or tossed around in luggage.
 
> thanks,
> jc

No problem. :)

* Heather Stern * star@ many places...


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Re: which laptop with these features?

[Jeff]

Heather Stern, 2002-Sep-18 12:21 -0700:
> > I'm not familiar with the 12.5mm vs. 9.5mm HDD.  What does this
> > describe?
> > 
> > thanks,
> > jc
> > 
> > --
> > Jeff CoppockSystems Engineer
> > Diggin' Debian  Admin and User
> 
> It's a taller drive.  Still has the tiny-size IDE interface normal on
> laptop disks, but the taller bay will allow for either older drive bays 
> (perhaps he intends to slide an already-debian drive into his new
> machine) or for larger capacities (you can only fit so many platters 
> on a 9.5mm drive).
> 
> Beware also that some manufacturers say 9mm and mean it; they can't take
> 9.5mm drives either, or they can with a -very- tight fit, and some
> danger of heating problems.  Mostly those are your pocket-tops; I don't 
> think you'll have that problem when looking for the bigger-screen systems.
> 
> * Heather Stern * star@ many places...

Ah, I get it...the drive is taller to make room for the thicker
platters.  I was thinking the higher capacity drives used thinner
platters to make room for more in the same sized drive.

thanks,
jc

--
Jeff CoppockSystems Engineer
Diggin' Debian  Admin and User

Re: which laptop with these features?

[Heather Stern]

> I'm not familiar with the 12.5mm vs. 9.5mm HDD.  What does this
> describe?
> 
> thanks,
> jc
> 
> --
> Jeff Coppock  Systems Engineer
> Diggin' DebianAdmin and User

It's a taller drive.  Still has the tiny-size IDE interface normal on
laptop disks, but the taller bay will allow for either older drive bays 
(perhaps he intends to slide an already-debian drive into his new
machine) or for larger capacities (you can only fit so many platters 
on a 9.5mm drive).

Beware also that some manufacturers say 9mm and mean it; they can't take
9.5mm drives either, or they can with a -very- tight fit, and some
danger of heating problems.  Mostly those are your pocket-tops; I don't 
think you'll have that problem when looking for the bigger-screen systems.

* Heather Stern * star@ many places...

Re: which laptop with these features?

[Jeff]

Heather Stern, 2002-Sep-18 12:21 -0700:
> > I'm not familiar with the 12.5mm vs. 9.5mm HDD.  What does this
> > describe?
> > 
> > thanks,
> > jc
> > 
> > --
> > Jeff CoppockSystems Engineer
> > Diggin' Debian  Admin and User
> 
> It's a taller drive.  Still has the tiny-size IDE interface normal on
> laptop disks, but the taller bay will allow for either older drive bays 
> (perhaps he intends to slide an already-debian drive into his new
> machine) or for larger capacities (you can only fit so many platters 
> on a 9.5mm drive).
> 
> Beware also that some manufacturers say 9mm and mean it; they can't take
> 9.5mm drives either, or they can with a -very- tight fit, and some
> danger of heating problems.  Mostly those are your pocket-tops; I don't 
> think you'll have that problem when looking for the bigger-screen systems.
> 
> * Heather Stern * star@ many places...

Ah, I get it...the drive is taller to make room for the thicker
platters.  I was thinking the higher capacity drives used thinner
platters to make room for more in the same sized drive.

thanks,
jc

--
Jeff CoppockSystems Engineer
Diggin' Debian  Admin and User


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Re: which laptop with these features?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

Jeff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
] I'm not familiar with the 12.5mm vs. 9.5mm HDD.  What does this
] describe?


It's the physical dimension of height of the device.  In the new
high-capacity laptop hard drives they use more platters in a taller stack.
I think the highest capacity 9.5mm hard disk is 40 GB, and the 12.5mm
disks go up to 60 GB.




Sebastian

Re: which laptop with these features?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

"Paul Ehrenreich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
] Also were you looking at the mobile Radeon for the 8200? didnt they give you
] an option for a M4 by chance?
] ITs been awhile since i looked at Dell's site and see what they have for the
] 8200 line


The 8200 comes with nVidia cards or the Mobility Radeon 9000 only.  And if
you want the ATI, you have to also shell out for a 2 GHz P4, 512 MB RAM,
and 40 GB disk.  I prefer to buy the least amount of hardware from Dell,
and upgrade with the cheaper add-ons from newegg.com or equivalent.


I'd happily buy an 8200 with an older ATI video card if they offered it,
but they dont.




Sebastian

Re: which laptop with these features?

[Jeff]

Sebastian Kuzminsky, 2002-Sep-18 09:55 -0700:
> Hi folks, i'm looking for a new laptop.  Can anyone recommend a good
> one with these features:
> 
> 14" or bigger screen, with better than 1024x768 resolution
> CD-RW/DVD drive (fixed or removable is ok)
> accepts a 12.5mm hard disk
> accepts two batteries
> video supported natively by XFree86 4.1 or 4.2 (not nVidia)
> audio supported by OSS in the 2.4 kernel
> price under $2,500
> 
> 
> I was pretty excited about the Dell Inspiron 4150 until i learned that
> it only accepts 9.5mm hard disks.  Then i was excited about the Inspiron
> 8200 until i learned that the ATI video card is only available if you
> configure it with a 2 GHz P4, 512 MB RAM, and a 40 GB disk.
> 
> 
> I've heard good things about the IBM Thinkpads but havent dont the
> research yet...
> 
> 
> Any info would be appreciated.

I'm not familiar with the 12.5mm vs. 9.5mm HDD.  What does this
describe?

thanks,
jc

--
Jeff CoppockSystems Engineer
Diggin' Debian  Admin and User

Re: which laptop with these features?

[Paul Ehrenreich]

I have an Inspiron 8000 currently running Debian -SID  and i havent had any
problems with it.

I have Xfree 4.2 w/ KDE 3 working good
the sound card is a maestro 3 which is supported in the newer kernels
8x sony CDRW in the fixed bay

Also were you looking at the mobile Radeon for the 8200? didnt they give you
an option for a M4 by chance?
ITs been awhile since i looked at Dell's site and see what they have for the
8200 line


- Original Message -
From: "Sebastian Kuzminsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:55 PM
Subject: which laptop with these features?


> Hi folks, i'm looking for a new laptop.  Can anyone recommend a good
> one with these features:
>
> 14" or bigger screen, with better than 1024x768 resolution
> CD-RW/DVD drive (fixed or removable is ok)
> accepts a 12.5mm hard disk
> accepts two batteries
> video supported natively by XFree86 4.1 or 4.2 (not nVidia)
> audio supported by OSS in the 2.4 kernel
> price under $2,500
>
>
> I was pretty excited about the Dell Inspiron 4150 until i learned that
> it only accepts 9.5mm hard disks.  Then i was excited about the Inspiron
> 8200 until i learned that the ATI video card is only available if you
> configure it with a 2 GHz P4, 512 MB RAM, and a 40 GB disk.
>
>
> I've heard good things about the IBM Thinkpads but havent dont the
> research yet...
>
>
> Any info would be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
> Sebastian
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: which laptop with these features?

[Richard Smedley]

Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> 
> Hi folks, i'm looking for a new laptop.  Can anyone recommend a good
> one with these features:


http://www.apple.com/powerbook/
is on my xmas list ;-)
 
> 14" or bigger screen, with better than 1024x768 resolution

15.2 inch 3:2 aspect 1280x854

> CD-RW/DVD drive (fixed or removable is ok)

yes

> accepts a 12.5mm hard disk
> accepts two batteries

A 55-watt-hour lithium-ion battery with integrated charge indicator
LEDs provides 5 hours of battery life.

> video supported natively by XFree86 4.1 or 4.2 (not nVidia)

 ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 graphics processor, 32MB of DDR SDRAM

> audio supported by OSS in the 2.4 kernel
> price under $2,500

Hmm, I don't know which country's dollars you could mean,
but 2499US dollars is the starting price.

It also comes with a a non-Free version of Unix which
can soon make way for Debian GNU/Linux :-)

http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/pmac
http://www.linux-france.org/macintosh/tibook.html
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ibook.html

- Richard


-- 

Richard Smedley
Production Editor, Linux Format

Join us at LinuxExpo UK - 9-10 October 2002 - Olympia2, 
   London - http://www.linuxexpouk.co.uk

Matter cannot be created or destroyed, nor can it be returned without a
receipt.


This email has been scanned for all viruses.

Re: which laptop with these features?

[Heather Stern]

> I'm not familiar with the 12.5mm vs. 9.5mm HDD.  What does this
> describe?
> 
> thanks,
> jc
> 
> --
> Jeff Coppock  Systems Engineer
> Diggin' DebianAdmin and User

It's a taller drive.  Still has the tiny-size IDE interface normal on
laptop disks, but the taller bay will allow for either older drive bays 
(perhaps he intends to slide an already-debian drive into his new
machine) or for larger capacities (you can only fit so many platters 
on a 9.5mm drive).

Beware also that some manufacturers say 9mm and mean it; they can't take
9.5mm drives either, or they can with a -very- tight fit, and some
danger of heating problems.  Mostly those are your pocket-tops; I don't 
think you'll have that problem when looking for the bigger-screen systems.

* Heather Stern * star@ many places...


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Re: which laptop with these features?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

Jeff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
] I'm not familiar with the 12.5mm vs. 9.5mm HDD.  What does this
] describe?


It's the physical dimension of height of the device.  In the new
high-capacity laptop hard drives they use more platters in a taller stack.
I think the highest capacity 9.5mm hard disk is 40 GB, and the 12.5mm
disks go up to 60 GB.




Sebastian


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Re: which laptop with these features?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

"Paul Ehrenreich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
] Also were you looking at the mobile Radeon for the 8200? didnt they give you
] an option for a M4 by chance?
] ITs been awhile since i looked at Dell's site and see what they have for the
] 8200 line


The 8200 comes with nVidia cards or the Mobility Radeon 9000 only.  And if
you want the ATI, you have to also shell out for a 2 GHz P4, 512 MB RAM,
and 40 GB disk.  I prefer to buy the least amount of hardware from Dell,
and upgrade with the cheaper add-ons from newegg.com or equivalent.


I'd happily buy an 8200 with an older ATI video card if they offered it,
but they dont.




Sebastian


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Re: which laptop with these features?

[Jeff]

Sebastian Kuzminsky, 2002-Sep-18 09:55 -0700:
> Hi folks, i'm looking for a new laptop.  Can anyone recommend a good
> one with these features:
> 
> 14" or bigger screen, with better than 1024x768 resolution
> CD-RW/DVD drive (fixed or removable is ok)
> accepts a 12.5mm hard disk
> accepts two batteries
> video supported natively by XFree86 4.1 or 4.2 (not nVidia)
> audio supported by OSS in the 2.4 kernel
> price under $2,500
> 
> 
> I was pretty excited about the Dell Inspiron 4150 until i learned that
> it only accepts 9.5mm hard disks.  Then i was excited about the Inspiron
> 8200 until i learned that the ATI video card is only available if you
> configure it with a 2 GHz P4, 512 MB RAM, and a 40 GB disk.
> 
> 
> I've heard good things about the IBM Thinkpads but havent dont the
> research yet...
> 
> 
> Any info would be appreciated.

I'm not familiar with the 12.5mm vs. 9.5mm HDD.  What does this
describe?

thanks,
jc

--
Jeff CoppockSystems Engineer
Diggin' Debian  Admin and User


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Re: which laptop with these features?

[Paul Ehrenreich]

I have an Inspiron 8000 currently running Debian -SID  and i havent had any
problems with it.

I have Xfree 4.2 w/ KDE 3 working good
the sound card is a maestro 3 which is supported in the newer kernels
8x sony CDRW in the fixed bay

Also were you looking at the mobile Radeon for the 8200? didnt they give you
an option for a M4 by chance?
ITs been awhile since i looked at Dell's site and see what they have for the
8200 line


- Original Message -
From: "Sebastian Kuzminsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:55 PM
Subject: which laptop with these features?


> Hi folks, i'm looking for a new laptop.  Can anyone recommend a good
> one with these features:
>
> 14" or bigger screen, with better than 1024x768 resolution
> CD-RW/DVD drive (fixed or removable is ok)
> accepts a 12.5mm hard disk
> accepts two batteries
> video supported natively by XFree86 4.1 or 4.2 (not nVidia)
> audio supported by OSS in the 2.4 kernel
> price under $2,500
>
>
> I was pretty excited about the Dell Inspiron 4150 until i learned that
> it only accepts 9.5mm hard disks.  Then i was excited about the Inspiron
> 8200 until i learned that the ATI video card is only available if you
> configure it with a 2 GHz P4, 512 MB RAM, and a 40 GB disk.
>
>
> I've heard good things about the IBM Thinkpads but havent dont the
> research yet...
>
>
> Any info would be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
> Sebastian
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: which laptop with these features?

[Richard Smedley]

Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> 
> Hi folks, i'm looking for a new laptop.  Can anyone recommend a good
> one with these features:


http://www.apple.com/powerbook/
is on my xmas list ;-)
 
> 14" or bigger screen, with better than 1024x768 resolution

15.2 inch 3:2 aspect 1280x854

> CD-RW/DVD drive (fixed or removable is ok)

yes

> accepts a 12.5mm hard disk
> accepts two batteries

A 55-watt-hour lithium-ion battery with integrated charge indicator
LEDs provides 5 hours of battery life.

> video supported natively by XFree86 4.1 or 4.2 (not nVidia)

 ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 graphics processor, 32MB of DDR SDRAM

> audio supported by OSS in the 2.4 kernel
> price under $2,500

Hmm, I don't know which country's dollars you could mean,
but 2499US dollars is the starting price.

It also comes with a a non-Free version of Unix which
can soon make way for Debian GNU/Linux :-)

http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/pmac
http://www.linux-france.org/macintosh/tibook.html
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ibook.html

- Richard


-- 

Richard Smedley
Production Editor, Linux Format

Join us at LinuxExpo UK - 9-10 October 2002 - Olympia2, 
   London - http://www.linuxexpouk.co.uk

Matter cannot be created or destroyed, nor can it be returned without a
receipt.


This email has been scanned for all viruses.


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Re: Which laptop tu buy.

[Helgi Örn]

On Sat, 2002-06-29 at 17:47, Jord Swart wrote:
> Check for the modem!!! Most laptops nowadays come with a nice winmodem,
> which is sometimes really not supported under Linux (sigh). I got a HP
> Omnibook 6000 with some 3com modem in it and I have found nothing to get
> that one to make a call. So I'm still dual booting for when I'm on the
> road :-(
> 
Hi!
I just purcased a HP Omnibook 6000 which I want to put Debian (Woody)
on, too bad to hear that the modem won't work though...:-(

Cheers,
Helgi Örn
 
-- 
  
~~ Gnupg signature ID 83AC4814 ~


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Re: Which laptop tu buy.

[Jord Swart]

Check for the modem!!! Most laptops nowadays come with a nice winmodem,
which is sometimes really not supported under Linux (sigh). I got a HP
Omnibook 6000 with some 3com modem in it and I have found nothing to get
that one to make a call. So I'm still dual booting for when I'm on the
road :-(

Jord


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Re: Which laptop tu buy.

[Helgi Örn]

On Sat, 2002-06-29 at 17:47, Jord Swart wrote:
> Check for the modem!!! Most laptops nowadays come with a nice winmodem,
> which is sometimes really not supported under Linux (sigh). I got a HP
> Omnibook 6000 with some 3com modem in it and I have found nothing to get
> that one to make a call. So I'm still dual booting for when I'm on the
> road :-(
> 
Hi!
I just purcased a HP Omnibook 6000 which I want to put Debian (Woody)
on, too bad to hear that the modem won't work though...:-(

Cheers,
Helgi Örn
 
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Re: Which laptop tu buy.

[Jord Swart]

Check for the modem!!! Most laptops nowadays come with a nice winmodem,
which is sometimes really not supported under Linux (sigh). I got a HP
Omnibook 6000 with some 3com modem in it and I have found nothing to get
that one to make a call. So I'm still dual booting for when I'm on the
road :-(

Jord


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