Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Frédéric Bothamy]

* Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-12-12 22:25] :
> 
> Hi,
> 
>   I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>   so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>   to make up one's mind.

Maybe I am a bit late ...

My Compaq Presario 711 EA works well: no problem with audio, video,
touchpad, network, USB. I had however to test various ACPI patches to get
one which would work OK, but latest are OK.

- Price: ~1500 euros (6 months ago)
- Weight: ~3kgs
- Autonomy: ~2h45 (at best, much less if heavily used)
- Correct linux support (despite bad DSDT tables from Compaq), Woody
  installs out-of-the-box
- Powerful enough for me (Duron 950 MHz)
- I usually am on debian-user-french (no, this one does not count ;-))

It is not available any more, but the new Presario 732 should be
fairly similar.

I do have to admit that the autonomy is less than what you want, that
I do not use suspend and that I have not tested Compaq's (and now HP)
support on this laptop. The only major drawback for me was to have to
pay for WinXP (I used it to check that everything was working).

I don't have any interest in Compaq/HP, I just use my laptop every
day.

Fred

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Frédéric Bothamy]

* Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-12-12 22:25] :
> 
> Hi,
> 
>   I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>   so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>   to make up one's mind.

Maybe I am a bit late ...

My Compaq Presario 711 EA works well: no problem with audio, video,
touchpad, network, USB. I had however to test various ACPI patches to get
one which would work OK, but latest are OK.

- Price: ~1500 euros (6 months ago)
- Weight: ~3kgs
- Autonomy: ~2h45 (at best, much less if heavily used)
- Correct linux support (despite bad DSDT tables from Compaq), Woody
  installs out-of-the-box
- Powerful enough for me (Duron 950 MHz)
- I usually am on debian-user-french (no, this one does not count ;-))

It is not available any more, but the new Presario 732 should be
fairly similar.

I do have to admit that the autonomy is less than what you want, that
I do not use suspend and that I have not tested Compaq's (and now HP)
support on this laptop. The only major drawback for me was to have to
pay for WinXP (I used it to check that everything was working).

I don't have any interest in Compaq/HP, I just use my laptop every
day.

Fred


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

Stefano Canepa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 
> :   Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
> : 
> I am going to by a Sony PCG-FX802 tomorrow. I search the Internet and
> found it has good support for everythink. It costs 1449 - 1700 euros here in
> Italy. I also read that Acer Aspire 1302XC/LC work fine but I personally
> do not like video cards with shared memory.

OK, thanks.

-- 
Jérôme Marant

http://marant.org

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

Stefano Canepa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 
> :   Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
> : 
> I am going to by a Sony PCG-FX802 tomorrow. I search the Internet and
> found it has good support for everythink. It costs 1449 - 1700 euros here in
> Italy. I also read that Acer Aspire 1302XC/LC work fine but I personally
> do not like video cards with shared memory.

OK, thanks.

-- 
Jérôme Marant

http://marant.org


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Stefano Canepa]

giovedì 12 dicembre 2002, alle 22:25, Jérôme Marant:
: 
: Hi,
: 
:   I know this is a common question on this list but there are
:   so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
:   to make up one's mind.
: 
:   Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
:   requirements:
:   - cheaper than 2500 euros
:   - lighter than 3 kg
:   - 3 hours autonomy
:   - good linux supported hardware
:   - can be used to replace my main computer
: 
:   So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
:   interesting.
:   I was also tempted by an Apple IBook but I managed to install
:   Debian on it at work and couldn't manage to make it work out of
:   the box (heavy use of unofficial resources on unofficial sites).
: 
:   Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
: 
I am going to by a Sony PCG-FX802 tomorrow. I search the Internet and
found it has good support for everythink. It costs 1449 - 1700 euros here in
Italy. I also read that Acer Aspire 1302XC/LC work fine but I personally
do not like video cards with shared memory.

Stefano

-- 
Stefano Canepa e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To follow the path: look at the master, follow the master, walk with the
master, see trough the master, become the master.
http://www.stefanocanepa.it - http://www.linux.it/~sc

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jacinto Calvo Sintes]

My oppinion might be different. My second Laptop has been an Apple 
Ibook2 12"screen g3-800MHz, 640MB RAM, airport & 30GB HD. The most 
difficult has been changing architecture options and new things at the 
kernel, but in 10 days time i've already got nearly averything working 
fine in Linux debian SID on it. I havn't tried FireWire yet & no 
transparencies yet on kde3.
It has cost mee 2000€, in diference from my first laptop, Dell Inspiron 
7500 (nearly 4000€!!), i've bought this ibook one becouse lightweight, 
only 2Kg in front of 3,5Kg inspirons. My shoulders are now agree. 
Battery in ibook is nearly 5 hours, and dell only 3hours in a battery.

Also ibook has all conections out like USB,iee1394,VGA ...
Anyway I wanted a Sony Vaio, nice small pretty thing, but i've been told 
not to do it. crusoe chip was not fine.
I see Laptops now are becomming like toasters, works fine for few time & 
then it gives such much problems that you prefer to by new one, that's 
wy there are so cheap now.

I still like my Inspiron but now i go out with the apple. :-)

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Stefano Canepa]

giovedì 12 dicembre 2002, alle 22:25, Jérôme Marant:
: 
: Hi,
: 
:   I know this is a common question on this list but there are
:   so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
:   to make up one's mind.
: 
:   Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
:   requirements:
:   - cheaper than 2500 euros
:   - lighter than 3 kg
:   - 3 hours autonomy
:   - good linux supported hardware
:   - can be used to replace my main computer
: 
:   So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
:   interesting.
:   I was also tempted by an Apple IBook but I managed to install
:   Debian on it at work and couldn't manage to make it work out of
:   the box (heavy use of unofficial resources on unofficial sites).
: 
:   Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
: 
I am going to by a Sony PCG-FX802 tomorrow. I search the Internet and
found it has good support for everythink. It costs 1449 - 1700 euros here in
Italy. I also read that Acer Aspire 1302XC/LC work fine but I personally
do not like video cards with shared memory.

Stefano

-- 
Stefano Canepa e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To follow the path: look at the master, follow the master, walk with the
master, see trough the master, become the master.
http://www.stefanocanepa.it - http://www.linux.it/~sc


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jacinto Calvo Sintes]

My oppinion might be different. My second Laptop has been an Apple 
Ibook2 12"screen g3-800MHz, 640MB RAM, airport & 30GB HD. The most 
difficult has been changing architecture options and new things at the 
kernel, but in 10 days time i've already got nearly averything working 
fine in Linux debian SID on it. I havn't tried FireWire yet & no 
transparencies yet on kde3.
It has cost mee 2000€, in diference from my first laptop, Dell Inspiron 
7500 (nearly 4000€!!), i've bought this ibook one becouse lightweight, 
only 2Kg in front of 3,5Kg inspirons. My shoulders are now agree. 
Battery in ibook is nearly 5 hours, and dell only 3hours in a battery.
Also ibook has all conections out like USB,iee1394,VGA ...
Anyway I wanted a Sony Vaio, nice small pretty thing, but i've been told 
not to do it. crusoe chip was not fine.
I see Laptops now are becomming like toasters, works fine for few time & 
then it gives such much problems that you prefer to by new one, that's 
wy there are so cheap now.
I still like my Inspiron but now i go out with the apple. :-)



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

Al Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> This is a biased opinion (I do work for HP), but I've
> been pretty happy with the Compaq Evo laptops.  I've
> got an n400c (running Debian testing) and a colleague
> has an n800v (running Debian unstable, I think).
>
> Even though these have a winmodem, it's at least a
> Lucent one so I can get a driver for it that does
> work.  With the wireless module attached, it's pretty
> handy and quite light weight.  I haven't tried all
> the hardware on it yet, but CD-RW, LAN, modem all
> seem to behave; I haven't messed with ACPI, and the
> IrDA port is something I'd like to play with sometime.
> Having 512MB RAM is pretty nice, too.

Thank you.

> I have no idea what the price will be.  I'm not even
> sure how much mine cost :-).

According to the French website, it is sold around
2400 euros :-)

Cheers,

-- 
Jérôme Marant

http://marant.org

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Yves Rutschle]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 05:14:03PM -, Mike Leone wrote:
> Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) had this to say on 12/13/02 at
> 12:01: 
> 
> > They gave me my money back and told me to keep the thing (which is
> > completely useless of course). :)
> 
> Not completely; sell it. Now you have more money than when you started
> (since they refunded your money); someone else has soem hardware they
> didn't
> have before, probably at a reduced price.
> 
> Sounds like a lot of wins to me. :-)

Indeed. And repeat the process:
* buy the thing
* complain it doesn't work
* get refund
* sell it

as many times as it takes to buy a bankrupt Dell :-)

/Y

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Al Stone]

This is a biased opinion (I do work for HP), but I've
been pretty happy with the Compaq Evo laptops.  I've
got an n400c (running Debian testing) and a colleague
has an n800v (running Debian unstable, I think).

Even though these have a winmodem, it's at least a
Lucent one so I can get a driver for it that does
work.  With the wireless module attached, it's pretty
handy and quite light weight.  I haven't tried all
the hardware on it yet, but CD-RW, LAN, modem all
seem to behave; I haven't messed with ACPI, and the
IrDA port is something I'd like to play with sometime.
Having 512MB RAM is pretty nice, too.

I have no idea what the price will be.  I'm not even
sure how much mine cost :-).

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dominik Woelfl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :



hi,

ever thought about an acer?
i am running a travelmate 610txv. it has nice dimensions (small) and weights
about 
2.5 kg with cd/dvd module.

debian is running very well except for the lucent amr winmodem (apm, etc works

nice).
it is also robust (magnesium protected) and i dropped it a few times without
harming 
the laptop.

i think it is cheaper than buying an ibm notebook, but i do not know how the new

series (630xxx, aspire, etc) work.



I'll have a look. Thanks!

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/






--
Ciao,
al

Al Stone
Linux & Open Source Lab
Hewlett-Packard Company
Phone:  970-898-0345
Telnet: 898-0345
Fax:970-898-3804
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

Al Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> This is a biased opinion (I do work for HP), but I've
> been pretty happy with the Compaq Evo laptops.  I've
> got an n400c (running Debian testing) and a colleague
> has an n800v (running Debian unstable, I think).
>
> Even though these have a winmodem, it's at least a
> Lucent one so I can get a driver for it that does
> work.  With the wireless module attached, it's pretty
> handy and quite light weight.  I haven't tried all
> the hardware on it yet, but CD-RW, LAN, modem all
> seem to behave; I haven't messed with ACPI, and the
> IrDA port is something I'd like to play with sometime.
> Having 512MB RAM is pretty nice, too.

Thank you.

> I have no idea what the price will be.  I'm not even
> sure how much mine cost :-).

According to the French website, it is sold around
2400 euros :-)

Cheers,

-- 
Jérôme Marant

http://marant.org


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Mike Leone]

Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) had this to say on 12/13/02 at 
12:01: 

> They gave me my money back and told me to keep the thing (which is
> completely useless of course). :)

Not completely; sell it. Now you have more money than when you started
(since they refunded your money); someone else has soem hardware they didn't
have before, probably at a reduced price.

Sounds like a lot of wins to me. :-)

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Public Key - 
Registered Linux user# 201348

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Description: PGP signature

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Yves Rutschle]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 05:14:03PM -, Mike Leone wrote:
> Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) had this to say on 12/13/02 at
> 12:01: 
> 
> > They gave me my money back and told me to keep the thing (which is
> > completely useless of course). :)
> 
> Not completely; sell it. Now you have more money than when you started
> (since they refunded your money); someone else has soem hardware they
> didn't
> have before, probably at a reduced price.
> 
> Sounds like a lot of wins to me. :-)

Indeed. And repeat the process:
* buy the thing
* complain it doesn't work
* get refund
* sell it

as many times as it takes to buy a bankrupt Dell :-)

/Y


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 04:49:58PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
> 
> 
> > Dell's technical support in Spain is the worst I've ever met!
> > They have no fscking idea of what the sell, and how it works,... They
> > are mostly French people with little knowledge of Spanish, sometimes is
> > impossible to know what they're trying to say!!
> > 
> > No, my next laptop won't be (probably) a Dell.
> 
> Heh. Why the hell don't hire Spanish people for
> technical support? :-)

Don't know. I'll ask next time I call them :)
Some of them are Spanish, so you have to piss off the ones that aren't
until they put you through with one of them.
Their offices for end users and small business are located in Toulouse
IIRC

But the real problem is not the language, I don't really care about
that. The problem is the don't know what hardware they have, and which
pieces are valid for your computer and which aren't. For example, I've
got an external modular bay (to use the CDROM/floppy outside the laptop)
on my table that does not work with my laptop. But the sold it to me and
took a long 30 minutes call to convince some 3 or 4 people that it
wasn't valid for my laptop!
They gave me my money back and told me to keep the thing (which is
completely useless of course). :)


-- 
Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta   | They that give up essential liberty
agi@(agi.as|debian.org)| to obtain a little temporary safety
Encrypted mail preferred   | deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Key fingerprint = 9782 04E7 2B75 405C F5E9  0C81 C514 AF8E 4BA4 01C3

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Al Stone]

This is a biased opinion (I do work for HP), but I've
been pretty happy with the Compaq Evo laptops.  I've
got an n400c (running Debian testing) and a colleague
has an n800v (running Debian unstable, I think).

Even though these have a winmodem, it's at least a
Lucent one so I can get a driver for it that does
work.  With the wireless module attached, it's pretty
handy and quite light weight.  I haven't tried all
the hardware on it yet, but CD-RW, LAN, modem all
seem to behave; I haven't messed with ACPI, and the
IrDA port is something I'd like to play with sometime.
Having 512MB RAM is pretty nice, too.

I have no idea what the price will be.  I'm not even
sure how much mine cost :-).

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dominik Woelfl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :



hi,

ever thought about an acer?
i am running a travelmate 610txv. it has nice dimensions (small) and weights
about 
2.5 kg with cd/dvd module.
debian is running very well except for the lucent amr winmodem (apm, etc works

nice).
it is also robust (magnesium protected) and i dropped it a few times without
harming 
the laptop.
i think it is cheaper than buying an ibm notebook, but i do not know how the new

series (630xxx, aspire, etc) work.


I'll have a look. Thanks!

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/






--
Ciao,
al

Al Stone
Linux & Open Source Lab
Hewlett-Packard Company
Phone:  970-898-0345
Telnet: 898-0345
Fax:970-898-3804
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Mike Leone]

Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) had this to say on 12/13/02 at 12:01: 

> They gave me my money back and told me to keep the thing (which is
> completely useless of course). :)

Not completely; sell it. Now you have more money than when you started
(since they refunded your money); someone else has soem hardware they didn't
have before, probably at a reduced price.

Sounds like a lot of wins to me. :-)

-- 
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Member, LEAF Project AIM: MikeLeone
Public Key - 
Registered Linux user# 201348

Boom diddy diddy, Boom diddy do
Queen



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Description: PGP signature

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :


> Dell's technical support in Spain is the worst I've ever met!
> They have no fscking idea of what the sell, and how it works,... They
> are mostly French people with little knowledge of Spanish, sometimes is
> impossible to know what they're trying to say!!
> 
> No, my next laptop won't be (probably) a Dell.

Heh. Why the hell don't hire Spanish people for
technical support? :-)

Cheers,


___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 11:31:32AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Calum Mackay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.13.1107 +0100]:
> > Out of interest, why not?
> > 
> > I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have 
> > worked very well with unstable.
> 
> Because Dell is really dropping in Quality. I've had Dells all my life
> and noticed this trend. While the CPi-A from four years ago was a cool
> laptop, my current C610, the C800, and the Inspiron 4000 are pathetic.
> ACPI is not implemented at all, the things are very loud because APM
> is not standards-compliant (it works with windoze) only, and the Dell
> service is pissing me off!
> 
> It's just apparent that Dell is Windoze-only and doing as much as
> they can to make it harder and harder for users of other OSs. Plus the
> fact that I am forced to feel neglected, because even though I own
> like 11 Dells, I am only a small-scale user and thus unimportant.
> 
> Also, the laptops break a lot. That never happened to me with IBMs.

I completely agree with martin.

My old CPi-A is a great laptop (now working like a charm with FreeBSD), 
rock solid. I've disassembled it a couple of times to fix some things and
it shows it's well done.

My new 3,XXX EUROS (lots) C840 is much more fragile. In the first two
months the LCD broke without any reason. The AC charger is not able to
charge both batteries while docked (it gets *so* hot, it turns itself
off before becoming a nice fireplace). The plastic pieces look (and
probably are) weaker that the CPi-A ones and than the ones on IBM's.

Dell's technical support in Spain is the worst I've ever met!
They have no fscking idea of what the sell, and how it works,... They
are mostly French people with little knowledge of Spanish, sometimes is
impossible to know what they're trying to say!!

No, my next laptop won't be (probably) a Dell.

-- 
Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta   | They that give up essential liberty
agi@(agi.as|debian.org)| to obtain a little temporary safety
Encrypted mail preferred   | deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Key fingerprint = 9782 04E7 2B75 405C F5E9  0C81 C514 AF8E 4BA4 01C3

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 04:49:58PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
> 
> 
> > Dell's technical support in Spain is the worst I've ever met!
> > They have no fscking idea of what the sell, and how it works,... They
> > are mostly French people with little knowledge of Spanish, sometimes is
> > impossible to know what they're trying to say!!
> > 
> > No, my next laptop won't be (probably) a Dell.
> 
> Heh. Why the hell don't hire Spanish people for
> technical support? :-)

Don't know. I'll ask next time I call them :)
Some of them are Spanish, so you have to piss off the ones that aren't
until they put you through with one of them.
Their offices for end users and small business are located in Toulouse
IIRC

But the real problem is not the language, I don't really care about
that. The problem is the don't know what hardware they have, and which
pieces are valid for your computer and which aren't. For example, I've
got an external modular bay (to use the CDROM/floppy outside the laptop)
on my table that does not work with my laptop. But the sold it to me and
took a long 30 minutes call to convince some 3 or 4 people that it
wasn't valid for my laptop!
They gave me my money back and told me to keep the thing (which is
completely useless of course). :)


-- 
Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta   | They that give up essential liberty
agi@(agi.as|debian.org)| to obtain a little temporary safety
Encrypted mail preferred   | deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Key fingerprint = 9782 04E7 2B75 405C F5E9  0C81 C514 AF8E 4BA4 01C3


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Dominik Woelfl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> hi,
> 
> ever thought about an acer?
> i am running a travelmate 610txv. it has nice dimensions (small) and weights
> about 
> 2.5 kg with cd/dvd module.
> debian is running very well except for the lucent amr winmodem (apm, etc works
> 
> nice).
> it is also robust (magnesium protected) and i dropped it a few times without
> harming 
> the laptop.
> i think it is cheaper than buying an ibm notebook, but i do not know how the 
> new
> 
> series (630xxx, aspire, etc) work.

I'll have a look. Thanks!

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :


> Dell's technical support in Spain is the worst I've ever met!
> They have no fscking idea of what the sell, and how it works,... They
> are mostly French people with little knowledge of Spanish, sometimes is
> impossible to know what they're trying to say!!
> 
> No, my next laptop won't be (probably) a Dell.

Heh. Why the hell don't hire Spanish people for
technical support? :-)

Cheers,


___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 11:31:32AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Calum Mackay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.13.1107 +0100]:
> > Out of interest, why not?
> > 
> > I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have 
> > worked very well with unstable.
> 
> Because Dell is really dropping in Quality. I've had Dells all my life
> and noticed this trend. While the CPi-A from four years ago was a cool
> laptop, my current C610, the C800, and the Inspiron 4000 are pathetic.
> ACPI is not implemented at all, the things are very loud because APM
> is not standards-compliant (it works with windoze) only, and the Dell
> service is pissing me off!
> 
> It's just apparent that Dell is Windoze-only and doing as much as
> they can to make it harder and harder for users of other OSs. Plus the
> fact that I am forced to feel neglected, because even though I own
> like 11 Dells, I am only a small-scale user and thus unimportant.
> 
> Also, the laptops break a lot. That never happened to me with IBMs.

I completely agree with martin.

My old CPi-A is a great laptop (now working like a charm with FreeBSD), 
rock solid. I've disassembled it a couple of times to fix some things and
it shows it's well done.

My new 3,XXX EUROS (lots) C840 is much more fragile. In the first two
months the LCD broke without any reason. The AC charger is not able to
charge both batteries while docked (it gets *so* hot, it turns itself
off before becoming a nice fireplace). The plastic pieces look (and
probably are) weaker that the CPi-A ones and than the ones on IBM's.

Dell's technical support in Spain is the worst I've ever met!
They have no fscking idea of what the sell, and how it works,... They
are mostly French people with little knowledge of Spanish, sometimes is
impossible to know what they're trying to say!!

No, my next laptop won't be (probably) a Dell.

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agi@(agi.as|debian.org)| to obtain a little temporary safety
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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[martin f krafft]

also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.13.1153 +0100]:
> I won't go for Dell then :-)

For your own good. Just today, I condemned Dell's service again. They
are very very stupid and not realizing that they are shooting
themselves in the foot.

-- 
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 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[dominik woelfl]

hi,

ever thought about an acer?
i am running a travelmate 610txv. it has nice dimensions (small) and weights 
about 
2.5 kg with cd/dvd module.
debian is running very well except for the lucent amr winmodem (apm, etc works 
nice).
it is also robust (magnesium protected) and i dropped it a few times without 
harming 
the laptop.
i think it is cheaper than buying an ibm notebook, but i do not know how the 
new 
series (630xxx, aspire, etc) work.

g
dominik

ps: for configuration help, etc ... feel free to contact me

12.12.2002 22:25:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jérôme Marant) wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>  I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>  so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>  to make up one's mind.
>
>  Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
>  requirements:
>  - cheaper than 2500 euros
>  - lighter than 3 kg
>  - 3 hours autonomy
>  - good linux supported hardware
>  - can be used to replace my main computer
>
>  So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
>  interesting.
>  I was also tempted by an Apple IBook but I managed to install
>  Debian on it at work and couldn't manage to make it work out of
>  the box (heavy use of unofficial resources on unofficial sites).
>
>  Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  PS: please CC me on reply
>
>-- 
>Jérôme Marant
>
>http://marant.org
>  
>
>
>-- 
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[dominik woelfl]

hi,

ever thought about an acer?
i am running a travelmate 610txv. it has nice dimensions (small) and weights 
about 
2.5 kg with cd/dvd module.
debian is running very well except for the lucent amr winmodem (apm, etc works 
nice).
it is also robust (magnesium protected) and i dropped it a few times without 
harming 
the laptop.
i think it is cheaper than buying an ibm notebook, but i do not know how the 
new 
series (630xxx, aspire, etc) work.

g
dominik

ps: for configuration help, etc ... feel free to contact me

12.12.2002 22:25:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jérôme Marant) wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>  I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>  so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>  to make up one's mind.
>
>  Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
>  requirements:
>  - cheaper than 2500 euros
>  - lighter than 3 kg
>  - 3 hours autonomy
>  - good linux supported hardware
>  - can be used to replace my main computer
>
>  So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
>  interesting.
>  I was also tempted by an Apple IBook but I managed to install
>  Debian on it at work and couldn't manage to make it work out of
>  the box (heavy use of unofficial resources on unofficial sites).
>
>  Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  PS: please CC me on reply
>
>-- 
>Jérôme Marant
>
>http://marant.org
>  
>
>
>-- 
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Dominik Woelfl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> hi,
> 
> ever thought about an acer?
> i am running a travelmate 610txv. it has nice dimensions (small) and weights
> about 
> 2.5 kg with cd/dvd module.
> debian is running very well except for the lucent amr winmodem (apm, etc works
> 
> nice).
> it is also robust (magnesium protected) and i dropped it a few times without
> harming 
> the laptop.
> i think it is cheaper than buying an ibm notebook, but i do not know how the new
> 
> series (630xxx, aspire, etc) work.

I'll have a look. Thanks!

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[martin f krafft]

also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.13.1153 +0100]:
> I won't go for Dell then :-)

For your own good. Just today, I condemned Dell's service again. They
are very very stupid and not realizing that they are shooting
themselves in the foot.

-- 
Please do not CC me! Get a proper mailer instead: www.mutt.org
 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc



msg10111/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[dominik woelfl]

hi,

ever thought about an acer?
i am running a travelmate 610txv. it has nice dimensions (small) and weights about 
2.5 kg with cd/dvd module.
debian is running very well except for the lucent amr winmodem (apm, etc works 
nice).
it is also robust (magnesium protected) and i dropped it a few times without harming 
the laptop.
i think it is cheaper than buying an ibm notebook, but i do not know how the new 
series (630xxx, aspire, etc) work.

g
dominik

ps: for configuration help, etc ... feel free to contact me

12.12.2002 22:25:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jérôme Marant) wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>  I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>  so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>  to make up one's mind.
>
>  Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
>  requirements:
>  - cheaper than 2500 euros
>  - lighter than 3 kg
>  - 3 hours autonomy
>  - good linux supported hardware
>  - can be used to replace my main computer
>
>  So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
>  interesting.
>  I was also tempted by an Apple IBook but I managed to install
>  Debian on it at work and couldn't manage to make it work out of
>  the box (heavy use of unofficial resources on unofficial sites).
>
>  Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  PS: please CC me on reply
>
>-- 
>Jérôme Marant
>
>http://marant.org
>  
>
>
>-- 
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>






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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[dominik woelfl]

hi,

ever thought about an acer?
i am running a travelmate 610txv. it has nice dimensions (small) and weights about 
2.5 kg with cd/dvd module.
debian is running very well except for the lucent amr winmodem (apm, etc works 
nice).
it is also robust (magnesium protected) and i dropped it a few times without harming 
the laptop.
i think it is cheaper than buying an ibm notebook, but i do not know how the new 
series (630xxx, aspire, etc) work.

g
dominik

ps: for configuration help, etc ... feel free to contact me

12.12.2002 22:25:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jérôme Marant) wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>  I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>  so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>  to make up one's mind.
>
>  Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
>  requirements:
>  - cheaper than 2500 euros
>  - lighter than 3 kg
>  - 3 hours autonomy
>  - good linux supported hardware
>  - can be used to replace my main computer
>
>  So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
>  interesting.
>  I was also tempted by an Apple IBook but I managed to install
>  Debian on it at work and couldn't manage to make it work out of
>  the box (heavy use of unofficial resources on unofficial sites).
>
>  Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  PS: please CC me on reply
>
>-- 
>Jérôme Marant
>
>http://marant.org
>  
>
>
>-- 
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>




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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Martin F Krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> also sprach Calum Mackay &lang=fr">[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [2002.12.13.1107 +0100]:
> > Out of interest, why not?
> > 
> > I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have 
> > worked very well with unstable.
> 
> Because Dell is really dropping in Quality. I've had Dells all my life
> and noticed this trend. While the CPi-A from four years ago was a cool
> laptop, my current C610, the C800, and the Inspiron 4000 are pathetic.
> ACPI is not implemented at all, the things are very loud because APM
> is not standards-compliant (it works with windoze) only, and the Dell
> service is pissing me off!
> 
> It's just apparent that Dell is Windoze-only and doing as much as
> they can to make it harder and harder for users of other OSs. Plus the
> fact that I am forced to feel neglected, because even though I own
> like 11 Dells, I am only a small-scale user and thus unimportant.
> 
> Also, the laptops break a lot. That never happened to me with IBMs.

I won't go for Dell then :-)

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Walter Hofmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Jérôme Marant wrote:
> 
> > > The ibm X series is great, s small!! esp the X30 with integrated
> > > wifi and bluetooth [both supported in linux] maybe not so good as
> > > desktop replacement but still gorgeous!
> > 
> > You are right, but it is at least 2900 euros (here in France) and it only
> > provides DVD/CD drives optionaly.
> 
> nofost.de has it for 2148 euro (students only).

I'm no longer a student :-)

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Calum Mackay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.13.1107 +0100]:
> Out of interest, why not?
> 
> I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have 
> worked very well with unstable.

Because Dell is really dropping in Quality. I've had Dells all my life
and noticed this trend. While the CPi-A from four years ago was a cool
laptop, my current C610, the C800, and the Inspiron 4000 are pathetic.
ACPI is not implemented at all, the things are very loud because APM
is not standards-compliant (it works with windoze) only, and the Dell
service is pissing me off!

It's just apparent that Dell is Windoze-only and doing as much as
they can to make it harder and harder for users of other OSs. Plus the
fact that I am forced to feel neglected, because even though I own
like 11 Dells, I am only a small-scale user and thus unimportant.

Also, the laptops break a lot. That never happened to me with IBMs.

-- 
Please do not CC me! Get a proper mailer instead: www.mutt.org
 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


pgpUTEBrLjf67.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Axel C. Voigt]

Hi,

I´ve got a Dell 8200 Inspiron, working very well with debian. The only
problem is wireless, were no drivers for linux are available (1180
Truemobile).

CU

-Original Message-
From: Calum Mackay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 11:08 AM
To: martin f krafft
Cc: debian-laptop@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question


martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.12.2225 +0100]:
>
>>  Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
>
> I vote for IBM or Toshiba. Just don't buy a Dell!

Out of interest, why not?

I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have
worked very well with unstable.

cheers,
c.


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Calum Mackay]

martin f krafft wrote:

also sprach Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.12.2225 +0100]:


 Could anyone give me opinions and advices?


I vote for IBM or Toshiba. Just don't buy a Dell!


Out of interest, why not?

I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have 
worked very well with unstable.


cheers,
c.

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Walter Hofmann]

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Jérôme Marant wrote:

> > The ibm X series is great, s small!! esp the X30 with integrated
> > wifi and bluetooth [both supported in linux] maybe not so good as
> > desktop replacement but still gorgeous!
> 
> You are right, but it is at least 2900 euros (here in France) and it only
> provides DVD/CD drives optionaly.

nofost.de has it for 2148 euro (students only).

Walter

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Martin F Krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> also sprach Jérôme Marant &lang=fr">[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [2002.12.12.2225 +0100]:
> >   Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
> 
> I vote for IBM or Toshiba. Just don't buy a Dell!

Toshiba seems to be more expencive than IBM and they
use NVidia graphic cards.

> 
> >   PS: please CC me on reply
> 
> Why don't you set the right Mail-Followup-To header? That would
> automate this...

You are right. I'm not used to it, thanks for pointing this out.

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Glen Mehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :


> >I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20, A22, and
> R31 models, and all three work just fine with Debian.  The R31 required XFree
> 4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.  
> >
> 
> if you add:
> #faster XFree86 development
> deb http://people.debian.org/~blade/woody/i386/ ./
> 
> to /etc/apt/sources.list, that'll give you 4.2 woody debs. Which work 
> perfectly (for me) YMMV, etc.

I do use unstable for debian development anyway :-)

Thanks to both.

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.12.2225 +0100]:
>   Could anyone give me opinions and advices?

I vote for IBM or Toshiba. Just don't buy a Dell!

>   PS: please CC me on reply

Why don't you set the right Mail-Followup-To header? That would
automate this...

-- 
Please do not CC me! Get a proper mailer instead: www.mutt.org
 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Martin F Krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> also sprach Calum Mackay &lang=fr">[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [2002.12.13.1107 +0100]:
> > Out of interest, why not?
> > 
> > I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have 
> > worked very well with unstable.
> 
> Because Dell is really dropping in Quality. I've had Dells all my life
> and noticed this trend. While the CPi-A from four years ago was a cool
> laptop, my current C610, the C800, and the Inspiron 4000 are pathetic.
> ACPI is not implemented at all, the things are very loud because APM
> is not standards-compliant (it works with windoze) only, and the Dell
> service is pissing me off!
> 
> It's just apparent that Dell is Windoze-only and doing as much as
> they can to make it harder and harder for users of other OSs. Plus the
> fact that I am forced to feel neglected, because even though I own
> like 11 Dells, I am only a small-scale user and thus unimportant.
> 
> Also, the laptops break a lot. That never happened to me with IBMs.

I won't go for Dell then :-)

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Walter Hofmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Jérôme Marant wrote:
> 
> > > The ibm X series is great, s small!! esp the X30 with integrated
> > > wifi and bluetooth [both supported in linux] maybe not so good as
> > > desktop replacement but still gorgeous!
> > 
> > You are right, but it is at least 2900 euros (here in France) and it only
> > provides DVD/CD drives optionaly.
> 
> nofost.de has it for 2148 euro (students only).

I'm no longer a student :-)

Cheers,

___
Webmail Nerim, http://www.nerim.net/



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Thomas_Kroener]

Hi folks...

Glen Mehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeremy Turner wrote:
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Glen Mehn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:16 PM
>>>To: Jérôme Marant
>>>Cc: debian-laptop@lists.debian.org
>>>Subject: Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question
>>>go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built like
>>>rocks.
>>>(i.e., strong, not just sitting around)
>>>Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
>>>pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2 kg.
>>>I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC it's a
>>>lot cheaper...
>>I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20, A22,
and R31 models, and all three work just >fine with Debian.  The R31
required XFree 4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.
>if you add:
>#faster XFree86 development
>deb http://people.debian.org/~blade/woody/i386/ ./
>to /etc/apt/sources.list, that'll give you 4.2 woody debs. Which work
>perfectly (for me) YMMV, etc.

First of all I have to apologize. I did not follow this thread from the
beginning, so my suggestion
might already be OT. Sorry for that.

I always would recommend IBM ThinkPads! The are robust, extremely good
supported under Linux and
even the older ones still have a very good resale value (if you would ever
dare to sell it).

I recommend the A-Series ThinkPads. They are very complete, the T-Series
often only have
either Floppy or CD-Rom/DVD.

My ThinkPad A21m has everything I need already inside: Sound, Modem,
Ethernet, DVD, Floppy,
2x PCMCIA, 1x Parallel, 1x Serial, 1x USB, 1x PS/2, 1x VGA. I only upgraded
to 256 MB RAM.
No more modifications.

I am not familiar with the R-Series so far, but from the first impression
they are just
too heavy. Maybe I am wrong.

My woody runs perfectly on my A21m. So if you need help feel free to ask.

bye Thomas

--

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards

   Thomas Kroener



SVA System Vertrieb Alexander GmbH
Thomas Kroener
Unter den Eichen 7
65195 Wiesbaden
Germany

Tel.: +49 (0) 611 - 18 135 - 42
Fax: +49  (0) 611 - 18 135 - 78

Microsoft isn't the answer,
Microsoft is the question.
And the answer is NO!

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Calum Mackay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.13.1107 +0100]:
> Out of interest, why not?
> 
> I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have 
> worked very well with unstable.

Because Dell is really dropping in Quality. I've had Dells all my life
and noticed this trend. While the CPi-A from four years ago was a cool
laptop, my current C610, the C800, and the Inspiron 4000 are pathetic.
ACPI is not implemented at all, the things are very loud because APM
is not standards-compliant (it works with windoze) only, and the Dell
service is pissing me off!

It's just apparent that Dell is Windoze-only and doing as much as
they can to make it harder and harder for users of other OSs. Plus the
fact that I am forced to feel neglected, because even though I own
like 11 Dells, I am only a small-scale user and thus unimportant.

Also, the laptops break a lot. That never happened to me with IBMs.

-- 
Please do not CC me! Get a proper mailer instead: www.mutt.org
 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc



msg10106/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Glen Mehn]

Jeremy Turner wrote:


-Original Message-
From: Glen Mehn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:16 PM
To: Jérôme Marant
Cc: debian-laptop@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built like
rocks.

(i.e., strong, not just sitting around)

Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2 kg.
I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC it's a
lot cheaper...
   



I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20, A22, and R31 models, and all three work just fine with Debian.  The R31 required XFree 4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.  



if you add:
#faster XFree86 development
deb http://people.debian.org/~blade/woody/i386/ ./

to /etc/apt/sources.list, that'll give you 4.2 woody debs. Which work 
perfectly (for me) YMMV, etc.

RE: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Axel C. Voigt]

Hi,

I´ve got a Dell 8200 Inspiron, working very well with debian. The only
problem is wireless, were no drivers for linux are available (1180
Truemobile).

CU

-Original Message-
From: Calum Mackay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 11:08 AM
To: martin f krafft
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question


martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.12.2225 +0100]:
>
>>  Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
>
> I vote for IBM or Toshiba. Just don't buy a Dell!

Out of interest, why not?

I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have
worked very well with unstable.

cheers,
c.


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Calum Mackay]

martin f krafft wrote:

also sprach Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.12.2225 +0100]:


 Could anyone give me opinions and advices?


I vote for IBM or Toshiba. Just don't buy a Dell!


Out of interest, why not?

I've had an Inspiron 7500, and now have a Latitude C400. Both have 
worked very well with unstable.

cheers,
c.


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Walter Hofmann]

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Jérôme Marant wrote:

> > The ibm X series is great, s small!! esp the X30 with integrated
> > wifi and bluetooth [both supported in linux] maybe not so good as
> > desktop replacement but still gorgeous!
> 
> You are right, but it is at least 2900 euros (here in France) and it only
> provides DVD/CD drives optionaly.

nofost.de has it for 2148 euro (students only).

Walter


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Martin F Krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> also sprach Jérôme Marant &lang=fr">[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [2002.12.12.2225 +0100]:
> >   Could anyone give me opinions and advices?
> 
> I vote for IBM or Toshiba. Just don't buy a Dell!

Toshiba seems to be more expencive than IBM and they
use NVidia graphic cards.

> 
> >   PS: please CC me on reply
> 
> Why don't you set the right Mail-Followup-To header? That would
> automate this...

You are right. I'm not used to it, thanks for pointing this out.

Cheers,

___
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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[jmarant]

Glen Mehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :


> >I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20, A22, and
> R31 models, and all three work just fine with Debian.  The R31 required XFree
> 4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.  
> >
> 
> if you add:
> #faster XFree86 development
> deb http://people.debian.org/~blade/woody/i386/ ./
> 
> to /etc/apt/sources.list, that'll give you 4.2 woody debs. Which work 
> perfectly (for me) YMMV, etc.

I do use unstable for debian development anyway :-)

Thanks to both.

Cheers,

___
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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.12.12.2225 +0100]:
>   Could anyone give me opinions and advices?

I vote for IBM or Toshiba. Just don't buy a Dell!

>   PS: please CC me on reply

Why don't you set the right Mail-Followup-To header? That would
automate this...

-- 
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 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
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Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

Glen Mehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built
> like rocks.
>
> (i.e., strong, not just sitting around)
>
> Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
> pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2
> kg. I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC
> it's a lot cheaper...

  Sorry, thanks Glen (not Glenn) :-)

-- 
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http://marant.org

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

"Jeremy Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20,
> A22, and R31 models, and all three work just fine with Debian.  The
> R31 required XFree 4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.
> With the R31, I got strange mouse movements which I believe are
> related to apm.  All of the sudden, the mouse freaks out and starts
> moving and clicking everywhere.  I mainly use my R31 in WinXP, but I
> hope to be fully moved over to Sid by the first of next year.

  I'm running Debian unstable all the time :-)

> If you have any Debian-specific questions to configurations on the
> R31, let me know.  I still have working configs.  They might help
> you if you got an R32, etc.

  OK. Thanks Jeremy.

-- 
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http://marant.org

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Thomas_Kroener]

Hi folks...

Glen Mehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeremy Turner wrote:
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Glen Mehn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>>Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:16 PM
>>>To: Jérôme Marant
>>>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Subject: Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question
>>>go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built like
>>>rocks.
>>>(i.e., strong, not just sitting around)
>>>Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
>>>pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2 kg.
>>>I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC it's a
>>>lot cheaper...
>>I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20, A22,
and R31 models, and all three work just >fine with Debian.  The R31
required XFree 4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.
>if you add:
>#faster XFree86 development
>deb http://people.debian.org/~blade/woody/i386/ ./
>to /etc/apt/sources.list, that'll give you 4.2 woody debs. Which work
>perfectly (for me) YMMV, etc.

First of all I have to apologize. I did not follow this thread from the
beginning, so my suggestion
might already be OT. Sorry for that.

I always would recommend IBM ThinkPads! The are robust, extremely good
supported under Linux and
even the older ones still have a very good resale value (if you would ever
dare to sell it).

I recommend the A-Series ThinkPads. They are very complete, the T-Series
often only have
either Floppy or CD-Rom/DVD.

My ThinkPad A21m has everything I need already inside: Sound, Modem,
Ethernet, DVD, Floppy,
2x PCMCIA, 1x Parallel, 1x Serial, 1x USB, 1x PS/2, 1x VGA. I only upgraded
to 256 MB RAM.
No more modifications.

I am not familiar with the R-Series so far, but from the first impression
they are just
too heavy. Maybe I am wrong.

My woody runs perfectly on my A21m. So if you need help feel free to ask.

bye Thomas

--

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards

   Thomas Kroener



SVA System Vertrieb Alexander GmbH
Thomas Kroener
Unter den Eichen 7
65195 Wiesbaden
Germany

Tel.: +49 (0) 611 - 18 135 - 42
Fax: +49  (0) 611 - 18 135 - 78

Microsoft isn't the answer,
Microsoft is the question.
And the answer is NO!



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

Glen Mehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built
> like rocks.
>
> (i.e., strong, not just sitting around)
>
> Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
> pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2
> kg. I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC
> it's a lot cheaper...

  Thanks a lot Glenn!

-- 
Jérôme Marant

http://marant.org

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hugh Saunders) writes:

> On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 10:25:14PM +0100, Jérôme Marant wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>   I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>>   so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>>   to make up one's mind.
>> 
>>   Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
>>   requirements:
>>   - cheaper than 2500 euros
>>   - lighter than 3 kg
>>   - 3 hours autonomy
>>   - good linux supported hardware
>>   - can be used to replace my main computer
>> 
>>   So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
>>   interesting.
> The ibm X series is great, s small!! esp the X30 with integrated
> wifi and bluetooth [both supported in linux] maybe not so good as
> desktop replacement but still gorgeous!

You are right, but it is at least 2900 euros (here in France) and it only
provides DVD/CD drives optionaly.

> Havent really  looked at the R series.
>
> I use an IBM T23 which is running Debian v Nicely, the only thing i
> havent got working yet is the IrDa, everything else, including
> hibernation and even the *ugh* winmodem works!

Ah? They still provide a winmodem?

> Is also powerfull enough to run XP in a vritual machine should I be forced
> to use it for something.

I do not intend to install XP, really :-)

> Would recomend the T23, is a good mix between power and portability. 
> although when i am wondering around with it in one hand, typing with the
> other, my arm does get sore after about 10 minutes!
>
> +not that it makes any differnce... but it has a little light built into
> the top of the screen so you can see they keys in the dark! [with proper
> typing, this shouldnt be necessary but it amused me for a few minutes
> fiddling]
>
> happy reseach!

  Thanks a lot Hugh !

-- 
Jérôme Marant

http://marant.org

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Glen Mehn]

Jeremy Turner wrote:


-Original Message-
From: Glen Mehn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:16 PM
To: Jérôme Marant
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built like
rocks.

(i.e., strong, not just sitting around)

Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2 kg.
I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC it's a
lot cheaper...
   


I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20, A22, and R31 models, and all three work just fine with Debian.  The R31 required XFree 4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.  


if you add:
#faster XFree86 development
deb http://people.debian.org/~blade/woody/i386/ ./

to /etc/apt/sources.list, that'll give you 4.2 woody debs. Which work 
perfectly (for me) YMMV, etc.



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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

Glen Mehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built
> like rocks.
>
> (i.e., strong, not just sitting around)
>
> Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
> pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2
> kg. I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC
> it's a lot cheaper...

  Sorry, thanks Glen (not Glenn) :-)

-- 
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http://marant.org


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

"Jeremy Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20,
> A22, and R31 models, and all three work just fine with Debian.  The
> R31 required XFree 4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.
> With the R31, I got strange mouse movements which I believe are
> related to apm.  All of the sudden, the mouse freaks out and starts
> moving and clicking everywhere.  I mainly use my R31 in WinXP, but I
> hope to be fully moved over to Sid by the first of next year.

  I'm running Debian unstable all the time :-)

> If you have any Debian-specific questions to configurations on the
> R31, let me know.  I still have working configs.  They might help
> you if you got an R32, etc.

  OK. Thanks Jeremy.

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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

Glen Mehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built
> like rocks.
>
> (i.e., strong, not just sitting around)
>
> Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
> pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2
> kg. I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC
> it's a lot cheaper...

  Thanks a lot Glenn!

-- 
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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jérôme Marant]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hugh Saunders) writes:

> On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 10:25:14PM +0100, Jérôme Marant wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>   I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>>   so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>>   to make up one's mind.
>> 
>>   Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
>>   requirements:
>>   - cheaper than 2500 euros
>>   - lighter than 3 kg
>>   - 3 hours autonomy
>>   - good linux supported hardware
>>   - can be used to replace my main computer
>> 
>>   So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
>>   interesting.
> The ibm X series is great, s small!! esp the X30 with integrated
> wifi and bluetooth [both supported in linux] maybe not so good as
> desktop replacement but still gorgeous!

You are right, but it is at least 2900 euros (here in France) and it only
provides DVD/CD drives optionaly.

> Havent really  looked at the R series.
>
> I use an IBM T23 which is running Debian v Nicely, the only thing i
> havent got working yet is the IrDa, everything else, including
> hibernation and even the *ugh* winmodem works!

Ah? They still provide a winmodem?

> Is also powerfull enough to run XP in a vritual machine should I be forced
> to use it for something.

I do not intend to install XP, really :-)

> Would recomend the T23, is a good mix between power and portability. 
> although when i am wondering around with it in one hand, typing with the
> other, my arm does get sore after about 10 minutes!
>
> +not that it makes any differnce... but it has a little light built into
> the top of the screen so you can see they keys in the dark! [with proper
> typing, this shouldnt be necessary but it amused me for a few minutes
> fiddling]
>
> happy reseach!

  Thanks a lot Hugh !

-- 
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http://marant.org


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RE: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jeremy Turner]

> -Original Message-
> From: Glen Mehn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:16 PM
> To: Jérôme Marant
> Cc: debian-laptop@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question
> 
> go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built like
> rocks.
> 
> (i.e., strong, not just sitting around)
> 
> Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
> pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2 kg.
> I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC it's a
> lot cheaper...

I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20, A22, and 
R31 models, and all three work just fine with Debian.  The R31 required XFree 
4.2, which I don't think is available in Woody.  With the R31, I got strange 
mouse movements which I believe are related to apm.  All of the sudden, the 
mouse freaks out and starts moving and clicking everywhere.  I mainly use my 
R31 in WinXP, but I hope to be fully moved over to Sid by the first of next 
year.

If you have any Debian-specific questions to configurations on the R31, let me 
know.  I still have working configs.  They might help you if you got an R32, 
etc.

Jeremy

RE: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Jeremy Turner]

> -Original Message-
> From: Glen Mehn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:16 PM
> To: Jérôme Marant
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question
> 
> go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built like
> rocks.
> 
> (i.e., strong, not just sitting around)
> 
> Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're
> pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2 kg.
> I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC it's a
> lot cheaper...

I second (or third) the call for the Thinkpad.  I have used the T20, A22, and R31 
models, and all three work just fine with Debian.  The R31 required XFree 4.2, which I 
don't think is available in Woody.  With the R31, I got strange mouse movements which 
I believe are related to apm.  All of the sudden, the mouse freaks out and starts 
moving and clicking everywhere.  I mainly use my R31 in WinXP, but I hope to be fully 
moved over to Sid by the first of next year.

If you have any Debian-specific questions to configurations on the R31, let me know.  
I still have working configs.  They might help you if you got an R32, etc.

Jeremy


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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Glen Mehn]

go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built like 
rocks.


(i.e., strong, not just sitting around)

Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're 
pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2 kg. 
I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC it's a 
lot cheaper...


-g

Jérôme Marant wrote:


Hi,

 I know this is a common question on this list but there are
 so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
 to make up one's mind.

 Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
 requirements:
 - cheaper than 2500 euros
 - lighter than 3 kg
 - 3 hours autonomy
 - good linux supported hardware
 - can be used to replace my main computer

 So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
 interesting.
 I was also tempted by an Apple IBook but I managed to install
 Debian on it at work and couldn't manage to make it work out of
 the box (heavy use of unofficial resources on unofficial sites).

 Could anyone give me opinions and advices?

 Thanks in advance.

 Cheers,

 PS: please CC me on reply

 

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Glen Mehn]

go for the thinkpad. They're heavily linux-supported, and are built like 
rocks.

(i.e., strong, not just sitting around)

Although I think that the R series are the heavier models, they're 
pretty nice. IMO the T23 is the best power/portability-- about 2 1/2 kg. 
I think that the R series may break your '3 kg' rule, but IIRC it's a 
lot cheaper...

-g

Jérôme Marant wrote:

Hi,

 I know this is a common question on this list but there are
 so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
 to make up one's mind.

 Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
 requirements:
 - cheaper than 2500 euros
 - lighter than 3 kg
 - 3 hours autonomy
 - good linux supported hardware
 - can be used to replace my main computer

 So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
 interesting.
 I was also tempted by an Apple IBook but I managed to install
 Debian on it at work and couldn't manage to make it work out of
 the box (heavy use of unofficial resources on unofficial sites).

 Could anyone give me opinions and advices?

 Thanks in advance.

 Cheers,

 PS: please CC me on reply

 




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Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Hugh Saunders]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 10:25:14PM +0100, Jérôme Marant wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>   I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>   so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>   to make up one's mind.
> 
>   Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
>   requirements:
>   - cheaper than 2500 euros
>   - lighter than 3 kg
>   - 3 hours autonomy
>   - good linux supported hardware
>   - can be used to replace my main computer
> 
>   So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
>   interesting.
The ibm X series is great, s small!! esp the X30 with integrated
wifi and bluetooth [both supported in linux] maybe not so good as
desktop replacement but still gorgeous!

Havent really  looked at the R series.

I use an IBM T23 which is running Debian v Nicely, the only thing i
havent got working yet is the IrDa, everything else, including
hibernation and even the *ugh* winmodem works!

Is also powerfull enough to run XP in a vritual machine should I be forced
to use it for something.

Would recomend the T23, is a good mix between power and portability. 
although when i am wondering around with it in one hand, typing with the
other, my arm does get sore after about 10 minutes!

+not that it makes any differnce... but it has a little light built into
the top of the screen so you can see they keys in the dark! [with proper
typing, this shouldnt be necessary but it amused me for a few minutes
fiddling]

happy reseach!

hugh

Re: Yet another "what laptop should I buy?" question

[Hugh Saunders]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 10:25:14PM +0100, Jérôme Marant wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>   I know this is a common question on this list but there are
>   so many laptops available in the world that it is pretty hard
>   to make up one's mind.
> 
>   Basically, I'm interested in buying a laptop with the following
>   requirements:
>   - cheaper than 2500 euros
>   - lighter than 3 kg
>   - 3 hours autonomy
>   - good linux supported hardware
>   - can be used to replace my main computer
> 
>   So far, Compaq Presario 28xx and IBM Thinkpad R series look
>   interesting.
The ibm X series is great, s small!! esp the X30 with integrated
wifi and bluetooth [both supported in linux] maybe not so good as
desktop replacement but still gorgeous!

Havent really  looked at the R series.

I use an IBM T23 which is running Debian v Nicely, the only thing i
havent got working yet is the IrDa, everything else, including
hibernation and even the *ugh* winmodem works!

Is also powerfull enough to run XP in a vritual machine should I be forced
to use it for something.

Would recomend the T23, is a good mix between power and portability. 
although when i am wondering around with it in one hand, typing with the
other, my arm does get sore after about 10 minutes!

+not that it makes any differnce... but it has a little light built into
the top of the screen so you can see they keys in the dark! [with proper
typing, this shouldnt be necessary but it amused me for a few minutes
fiddling]

happy reseach!

hugh


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