GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Wesley W. Terpstra
Good evening! I'm developing an error-correcting code library which works on a lot of data at once. Since the API is quite simple and the cost of process creation relatively insignificant, I would like to provide a command-line API. I feel this has several engineering advantages: 1) it's easier

Re: Fwd: figlet license change from Artistic to Clarified Artistic or Artistic 2.0?

2004-11-02 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 05:59:42PM -0400, John Cowan wrote: Sublicensing means that you are still bound by the original licence, but you can offer any licence in the specified range to those you distribute to. Quite so, and I should have clarified that point. If Alice licenses a work

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le mardi 02 novembre 2004 à 21:53 +0100, Wesley W. Terpstra a écrit : Mr. John Wontshare writes a streaming multicast client. To deal with packet loss, he uses my error-correcting library. Without my library, Mr. Wontshare's client can't work at all. Mr. Wontshare's client represents only a

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Måns Rullgård
Wesley W. Terpstra [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Good evening! I'm developing an error-correcting code library which works on a lot of data at once. Since the API is quite simple and the cost of process creation relatively insignificant, I would like to provide a command-line API. I feel this

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Tollef Fog Heen
* Wesley W. Terpstra | What can I do to prevent the above scenario from happening? I don't think you can, at least not while keeping the library DFSG free. (I guess it would be fairly trivial to write up a similar application which would not be affected by your license for the application,

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Måns Rullgård
Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Le mardi 02 novembre 2004 à 21:53 +0100, Wesley W. Terpstra a écrit : Mr. John Wontshare writes a streaming multicast client. To deal with packet loss, he uses my error-correcting library. Without my library, Mr. Wontshare's client can't work at all.

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 09:53:21PM +0100, Wesley W. Terpstra wrote: What I am concerned about is the following scenario: Mr. John Wontshare writes a streaming multicast client. To deal with packet loss, he uses my error-correcting library. Without my library, Mr. Wontshare's client can't

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 11:00:54PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le mardi 02 novembre 2004 à 21:53 +0100, Wesley W. Terpstra a écrit : Mr. John Wontshare writes a streaming multicast client. To deal with packet loss, he uses my error-correcting library. Without my library, Mr. Wontshare's

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Wesley W. Terpstra
On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 05:30:36PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: Given that Mr. Wontshare's client represents only a small investment of effort, refuses to port doesn't sound like much of a problem. I meant to say relatively small investment; sorry. Even simple applications can be hard to rewrite

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Wesley W. Terpstra
On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 11:12:11PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: If Mr Wontshare's client doesn't work without your software, this is what I call a derivative work. Whether it is linked to it using ELF or not is irrelevant. Mr. Wontshare's program *uses* the GPL program, but isn't derived

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Måns Rullgård
Wesley W. Terpstra [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 11:12:11PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: If Mr Wontshare's client doesn't work without your software, this is what I call a derivative work. Whether it is linked to it using ELF or not is irrelevant. Mr. Wontshare's

Re: GPL and command-line libraries

2004-11-02 Thread Wesley W. Terpstra
On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 12:18:32AM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Or else, his is a derivative work of whichever one he makes use of. If he ships with one of them, his intention seems to be clear. I don't see how that is logically inconsistent. It's all about causality. Consider two

[jcowan@reutershealth.com: Re: Fwd: figlet license change from Artistic to Clarified Artistic or Artistic 2.0?]

2004-11-02 Thread Glenn Maynard
You can post to d-legal even if you're not subscribed. (reply separate) -- Glenn Maynard ---BeginMessage--- (Please forward to debian-legal; I don't seem to be able to sign up for it successfully.) Glenn Maynard scripsit: This also implies that, for example, Licensor hereby agrees to provide

Re: Fwd: figlet license change from Artistic to Clarified Artistic or Artistic 2.0?

2004-11-02 Thread John Cowan
Glenn Maynard scripsit: This also implies that, for example, Licensor hereby agrees to provide a machine-readable copy of the Source Code of the Original Work ... means if you distribute this, you're the licensor, so *you* agree to provide This clause reads as if it says the original

Re: Fwd: figlet license change from Artistic to Clarified Artistic or Artistic 2.0?

2004-11-02 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 06:30:42PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: but I can distribute it under the X11 license, so the person I send it to is no longer forced to include source (or to grant patent licenses, and so on). Just so. AFL original and derivative works may be redistributed under any

Re: Fwd: figlet license change from Artistic to Clarified Artistic or Artistic 2.0?

2004-11-02 Thread John Cowan
Glenn Maynard scripsit: Watch out: it only says if you sue me for patent infringement, you lose your license, not you can't sue me for patent infringement. Of course. I was oversimplifying. General (but not unanimous) feeling on d-legal is that choice of venue is not free. (This is

Re: Fwd: figlet license change from Artistic to Clarified Artistic or Artistic 2.0?

2004-11-02 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 08:03:49PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: The AFL's restrictions are intended to protect the licensor and his original licensees. Other persons (including said licensees if they choose to become licensors as well) can undertake whatever obligations they wish to. It seems

Re: Fwd: figlet license change from Artistic to Clarified Artistic or Artistic 2.0?

2004-11-02 Thread John Cowan
Glenn Maynard scripsit: It seems that this license is actually doing two fundamentally distinct things: granting a license to people to do stuff, and making promises from the distributor/licensor. Correct. I think this combination is what makes it so confusing: it looks like it requires

Re: Fwd: figlet license change from Artistic to Clarified Artistic or Artistic 2.0?

2004-11-02 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 10:24:29PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: Could you give an example of something that would contradict the AFL, that isn't allowed? (If I'm allowed to distribute the work under the X11 license, then it seems like anything is allowed, except for obvious things like