Using debian extended xterminal (dext) as name for a project.

2004-12-29 Thread Juergen Lueters
Hello folks, since some time we are developing a set of shell scripts in order to set up a environment for xterminals and diskless workstations. We provide the following capabilities - install a chroot environment with debootstrap - create a proper initrd - create a custom kernel - create a

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Matthew Garrett
Brian Thomas Sniffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lots of people cannot write or modify C code, but we accept as free many programs that include C code. The user being inexpert in some technique does not render a thing non-free. But something being *not

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The relevant distinction is whether whether or not we consider there to be an adequate abstraction barrier between the two pieces of code. Other distinctions don't really matter. Then why you keep talking about where firmware is stored? Drivers for firmware, where the

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Raul Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The relevant distinction is whether whether or not we consider there to be an adequate abstraction barrier between the two pieces of code. Other distinctions don't really matter. Then why you keep talking about where firmware is stored? Huh? On Wed, Dec 29, 2004 at

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Brian Thomas Sniffen
Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brian Thomas Sniffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lots of people cannot write or modify C code, but we accept as free many programs that include C code. The user being inexpert in some technique does not render a

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Michael Poole
Brian Thomas Sniffen writes: Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brian Thomas Sniffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lots of people cannot write or modify C code, but we accept as free many programs that include C code. The user being inexpert

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Måns Rullgård
Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A BIOS is normally stored in binary form as executable or interpretable code plus associated data. Most people would call executable code in binary form software; Debian uses a broader definition than that. The real question is why you think that

Re: GPL, OpenSSL and Non-Free

2004-12-29 Thread Florian Weimer
* Paul Hampson: As I understand it, the issue is that anything in the Debian archive is considered to be distributed with Debian, and so the GPL's exception for libraries that come with the OS doesn't apply since the application also comes with the OS. (In GPL's terms, the OS comes with the

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Matthew Garrett
Brian Thomas Sniffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: will happily present you with a copy of your system firmware (assuming you're on x86). If you run ndisasm over it, you'll find it's x86 machine code. You can even extract bits of it and run them. It looks

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Matthew Garrett
Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Dec 29, 2004 at 03:38:34PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: Drivers for firmware, where the driver would typically be non-functional if we didn't ship some non-free software image, we've been treating as depending on non-free

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-29 Thread Matthew Garrett
Brian Thomas Sniffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: /why/ those freedoms are no longer necessary. What is it about that code that makes the ability to modify and distribute modified varients less interesting? It's not that it's a less interesting

Re: GPL, OpenSSL and Non-Free

2004-12-29 Thread Raul Miller
On Thu, Dec 30, 2004 at 02:21:24AM +1100, Paul Hampson wrote: However, non-free is not part of Debian (as per the social contract) so it would be OK to put GPL'd programs that depend on OpenSSL into non-free? The GPL special exception doesn't care about part of vs. not part of. What matters

mozilla thunderbird trademark restrictions / still dfsg free ?

2004-12-29 Thread Alexander Sack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, mozilla _wants_ us to make some changes to the thunderbird package in order to not infringe their trademarks. So what do they basically want? They basically want us to comply to the community editions terms as described in [1]. This implies

Re: GPL, OpenSSL and Non-Free

2004-12-29 Thread Don Armstrong
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Paul Hampson wrote: As I understand it, the issue is that anything in the Debian archive is considered to be distributed with Debian, and so the GPL's exception for libraries that come with the OS doesn't apply since the application also comes with the OS. (In GPL's

Re: mozilla thunderbird trademark restrictions / still dfsg free ?

2004-12-29 Thread Matthew Garrett
Alexander Sack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Cc:ed because I've no idea if you read the list) People distributing works derived from the default Debian package of Thunderbird will have to also comply with the mozilla.org trademark policies, or remove the trademarks entirely from the package.

Re: mozilla thunderbird trademark restrictions / still dfsg free ?

2004-12-29 Thread Don Armstrong
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Alexander Sack wrote: Hi, mozilla _wants_ us to make some changes to the thunderbird package in order to not infringe their trademarks. So what do they basically want? They basically want us to comply to the community editions terms as described in [1]. This implies

Re: GPL, OpenSSL and Non-Free

2004-12-29 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Dec 29, 2004 at 04:47:06PM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Paul Hampson wrote: As I understand it, the issue is that anything in the Debian archive is considered to be distributed with Debian, and so the GPL's exception for libraries that come with the OS doesn't