Re: GFDL and cover texts
Le mardi 07 août 2007 à 10:48 -0500, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso a écrit : But we can't modify the COPYING file in a source tarball, and that's ok. Why isn't a cover text like a GNU manual also acceptable? IIRC, we also accepted invariant stuff in code comments. Cover texts are *functional* invariants. They restrict what you can do with the documentation. The reference card issue should be enough in itself to demonstrate this has real implications. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Skype license
I got a request from a Skype employee who was eager to distribute Skype with Debian. I replied that the current license probably is not compatible with DFSG and promised to ask debian-legal what has to be done with Skype's license to make it distributable. In it's current form, I don't think Skype is suitable even for non-free. So the primary question is What has to change in Skype's license to make it distributable in non-free?, with the secondary question being the same for main. I posted a question about the Skype license back in 2004 (http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2004/07/msg00570.html), but the text has changed since then. http://www.skype.com/company/legal/ is a list of links to pages about Skype terms and policies. The two important ones are the EULA (http://www.skype.com/company/legal/eula/) and the distribution terms (http://www.skype.com/company/legal/promote/distributionterms.html) Cheers, Øystein Gisnås Skype End User License Agreement IMPORTANT â PLEASE READ CAREFULLY Before reading the articles below, please note the following preliminary terms, which use some of the definitions specified in Article 1 below: No Emergency Calls: by entering into this Agreement You acknowledge and agree that the Skype Software does not and does not intend to support or carry emergency calls. Please also see article 7 below. Entering into this Agreement:This End User License Agreement constitutes a valid and binding agreement between Skype Software S.a.r.l and You, as a user, for the use of the Skype Software. You must enter into this Agreement by clicking on the ACCEPT button in order to install and use the Skype Software. You hereby agree and acknowledge that this Agreement covers all Your use of Skype Software, whether it be from this installation or from any other terminals where Skype Software has been installed, by You or by third parties. Furthermore, by installing and continuing to use the Skype Software You agree to be bound by the terms of this Agreement and any new versions hereof. Electronic Signatures and Agreement(s): You acknowledge and agree that by clicking on the ACCEPT button or similar buttons or links as may be designated by Skype to show Your approval of any foregoing texts and/or to download and install the Skype Software, You are entering into a legally binding contract. You hereby agree to the use of electronic communication in order to enter into contracts, place orders and create other records and to the electronic delivery of notices, policies and records of transactions initiated or completed through the Skype Software. Furthermore, You hereby waive any rights or requirements under any laws or regulations in any jurisdiction which require an original (non-electronic) signature or delivery or retention of non-electronic records, to the extent permitted under applicable mandatory law. Jurisdictionâs Restrictions: if You are residing in a jurisdiction which restricts the use of internet-based applications according to age, or which restricts the ability to enter into agreements such as this agreement according to age and You are under such a jurisdiction and under such age limit, You may not enter into this Agreement and download, install or use the Skype Software. Furthermore, if You are residing in a jurisdiction where it is forbidden by law to offer or use software for internet communication, You may not enter into this Agreement and You may not download, install or use the Skype Software. By entering into this Agreement You explicitly state that You have verified in Your own jurisdiction if Your use of the Skype Software is allowed. Article 1 Definitions In this Agreement the following capitalized definitions are being used, singular as well as plural. 1.1 Affiliate: any corporation, company or other entity that directly or indirectly controls, is controlled by, or is under common control with, Skype. For the purpose of this definition, the word control shall mean the direct or indirect ownership of more than fifty percent (50%) of the outstanding voting stock of the corporation, company, or other entity. 1.2 Agreement: this End User License Agreement, as may be renewed, modified and/or amended from time to time. 1.3 Emergency Services: means services that connect a user to emergency services personnel or public safety answering points pursuant to applicable local and or national regulatory requirements. 1.4 Documentation: any online or otherwise enclosed documentation provided by Skype. 1.5 Effective Date: the date on which this Agreement is entered into by clicking on the ACCEPT button as stated above. 1.6 IP Rights: any and all intellectual property rights, including but not limited to copyrights, trademarks and patents, as well as know how and trade secrets contained in or relating to the Skype Software, the Documentation, the Skype Website or the Skype Promotional Materials. 1.7 Password: refers to a code
Re: Skype license
On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 10:53:42PM +0200, Øystein Gisnås wrote: I got a request from a Skype employee who was eager to distribute Skype with Debian. I replied that the current license probably is not compatible with DFSG Are you joking? http://www.skype.com/help/faq/technical.html: Is the source code for Skype available? Can I have a copy? No. Skype is proprietary and closed-source software. Hell no, it's not compatible with the DFSG. and promised to ask debian-legal what has to be done with Skype's license to make it distributable. In it's current form, I don't think Skype is suitable even for non-free. So the primary question is What has to change in Skype's license to make it distributable in non-free?, with the secondary question being the same for main. Why is this second question even worth asking? As for suitability for non-free: I think it would be a net loss for us to distribute this software at all, because by its nature VoIP benefits strongly from network effects and Skype is not a model that's compatible with the goals of software freedom, so making it more readily available to Debian users works against having a usable open VoIP standard. I don't think we should lightly agree to serve as a distribution channel for software that's so very bad for us. But, if someone really insists on trying to include it in non-free, here are the issues: 1.3 You will not distribute other products or services together with Skype Software, unless You are a publisher of computer magazines for end users and distribute the Skype Software with Your magazine(s) for free. We distribute lots of things together in non-free. This clause is broad enough that it's not clear whether non-free fails it. 1.4 You will not distribute Skype Software through other media than CD-ROM or DVD, unless approved by Skype in an explicit written communication to You. The *primary* means of distribution of non-free is via ftp/http, not via CD-ROM or DVD; there is (or has been in the past) software in non-free whose license prohibited inclusion on CDs. 1.5 You will acknowledge that the provisions of the Agreement must be agreed to by all end users who install the Skype Software that You distribute. Onerous requirement that we somehow enforce Skype's EULA on their behalf. 1.6 You will not undertake, cause, permit or authorize the modification, creation of derivative works, translation, reverse engineering, decompiling, disassembling or hacking of the Skype Software or any part thereof. Further, You will not make any indications about Skype???s intellectual property rights illegible. Permit again implies we're expected to enforce their license for them. Pass. Furthermore, reverse-engineering is a protected right in many jurisdictions. Debian should not agree to such terms as a condition of distributing this software, and we shouldn't leave our mirror sites in a situation where they're implicitly agreeing to this either. 1.7 You will not harm, misuse or bring into disrepute Skype, the Skype Software and the services of Skype, on the contrary, You will maintain the value and reputation thereof to the best of Your abilities. Reading this makes me want to post a manifesto on Skype so that Debian *can't* distribute it under the terms of this license... 1.8 You will constantly monitor the Skype Website in order to ensure that You are distributing the latest stable version of the Skype Software as well as that You are aware of any changes in the applicable legal documents. In the event that You cannot agree on any changes in any applicable legal document You will immediate cease any and all distribution of the Skype Software and, where applicable, any and all use of the Skype Software. Makes it unsuitable for inclusion in a stable release; otherwise nothing that would prevent inclusion in non-free, annoying though it is. Summary: we should spend our time encouraging VoIP solutions built around open protocols and open standards, instead of engaging in legalistic wanking for the privilege of distributing software prepared by our proprietary overlords. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Skype license
On 11109 March 1977, Øystein Gisnås wrote: I got a request from a Skype employee who was eager to distribute Skype with Debian. I replied that the current license probably is not compatible with DFSG and promised to ask debian-legal what has to be done with Skype's license to make it distributable. Erase it and take a sensible one. With the current one it wont ever get near to the archive as it fails in just too many points, even for non-free. -- bye Joerg mhy Ganneff airlines: departing from a window near you pgp9FJoLe298v.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Skype license
This one time, at band camp, Øystein Gisnås said: I got a request from a Skype employee who was eager to distribute Skype with Debian. I replied that the current license probably is not compatible with DFSG and promised to ask debian-legal what has to be done with Skype's license to make it distributable. In it's current form, I don't think Skype is suitable even for non-free. So the primary question is What has to change in Skype's license to make it distributable in non-free?, with the secondary question being the same for main. Even if Skype's license terms weren't so onerous that distribution in non-free was an option, I want to say that I think it's a bad idea to try to include it in any part of Debian. The point of non-free, in my mind, is that there are certain areas of interest where free software just has not caught up or cannot compete with non-free software at the moment (particular examples used to be Netscape, and are probably currently things like flash; other areas might be things like CAD software, should someone find one that is redistributable). VoIP is well supported by free software. Debian is really not well served by promoting a company so uninterested in giving back to the community. We are much better served by promoting the adoption of the currently exiting open standards and protocols that already exist in this area. If there are interoperability, stability, or functionality problems in the free frameworks, I urge you to work on those rather than expending effort on promoting non-free alternatives. Thanks for reading so far, -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Skype license
Joerg Jaspert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 11109 March 1977, Øystein Gisnås wrote: I got a request from a Skype employee who was eager to distribute Skype with Debian. I replied that the current license probably is not compatible with DFSG and promised to ask debian-legal what has to be done with Skype's license to make it distributable. Erase it and take a sensible one. This is really the best they can expect. It's not the job of a volunteer mailing list to write a better non-free license for a proprietary software corporation dealing in non-standard, proprietary network protocols that undermine the free, open protocols. -- \ I'm beginning to think that life is just one long Yoko Ono | `\ album; no rhyme or reason, just a lot of incoherent shrieks and | _o__) then it's over. -- Ian Wolff | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
