Re: Defining 'preferred form for making modifications'

2003-06-24 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 13:29 US/Eastern, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Anthony DeRobertis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think an interpretation of the GPL that says I wrote this code in C. Forever is C must it stay! is correct. Right. All I'm saying is you must distribute the C

Re: Defining 'preferred form for making modifications'

2003-06-24 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 13:30 US/Eastern, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you mean by that that if I use an editor that does not have a save format that losslessly reproduces all of its internal state, then I can only distribute the output

Re: Defining 'preferred form for making modifications'

2003-06-24 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 16:37 US/Eastern, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Yes, there might be such a case, but I would say that a few edits isn't such a case. And that the usual scenario isn't this at all; it's people who simply throw away the xcf or outright refuse to distribute it.

Re: Defining 'preferred form for making modifications'

2003-06-24 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 16:36 US/Eastern, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Why would C stay the preferred form for modifying a work for eternity, even when the current work bares hardly a resemblence to its C original? It is *PART* of the source. Not the whole source, but part of it.

Re: Defining 'preferred form for making modifications'

2003-06-23 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sunday, Jun 22, 2003, at 08:11 US/Eastern, Henning Makholm wrote: But if they are not the preferred form, it is illegal to edit them (at least, it it illegal to distribute the edited gifs). So what's the point of being *able* to do so? If you merge the layers of an image, then edit

Re: Defining 'preferred form for making modifications'

2003-06-23 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Monday, Jun 23, 2003, at 02:44 US/Eastern, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: The reason is quite clear: because otherwise one could very trivially escape the GPL's requirements entirely, by making some little modification directly to the binary for some program, and then claiming that the binary

Re: [RFC] Modification history as a source code

2003-06-18 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, Jun 17, 2003, at 07:03 US/Eastern, Dmitry Borodaenko wrote: The issue of storage is more controversial, all I can give is my personal opinion that it is fair to expect that creators keep track of at least their own work, I don't think its reasonable to expect me to keep track of

Re: Defining 'preferred form for making modifications'

2003-06-16 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Monday, Jun 16, 2003, at 10:10 US/Eastern, Thomas Hood wrote: In general if you possess both a non-indent(1)ed version of the program you are distributing and version of the program that you have run through indent(1), then I want the non-indent(1) ed version. Generally, one doesn't run

Re: A single unified license

2003-06-15 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Saturday, Jun 14, 2003, at 07:03 US/Eastern, Richard Braakman That's a lot easier than Here's a Debian CD. And here's my solemn promise to provide source CDs for this Debian version to anyone who asks for the next three years. Please wait while I go buy a CD burner. (Note that 2(c) is

Re: Proposed: Debian's Five Freedoms for Free Works

2003-06-15 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sunday, Jun 15, 2003, at 12:45 US/Eastern, Nathanael Nerode wrote: Deliberately obfusticated or encrypted forms and program-generated forms are *not* preferred forms for making modifications. Program-generated forms can become the preferred form. Its certainly possible to use

Re: A single unified license

2003-06-14 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Fri, 2003-06-13 at 22:02, Walter Landry wrote: d) Accompany it with information as to how to obtain, for a charge no more than the cost of physically performing source distribution, corresponding source. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution)

Re: Proposed: Debian's Five Freedoms for Free Works

2003-06-13 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thursday, Jun 12, 2003, at 20:10 US/Eastern, Andrew Suffield wrote: I contemplated a few ways to rephrase it, but whenever I tried, I found myself arriving back at the first sentence again[1]. As such, I think it'd be best to remove the second one outright; the freedom is already adequetely

Re: Proposed: Debian's Five Freedoms for Free Works

2003-06-13 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thursday, Jun 12, 2003, at 22:01 US/Eastern, Joachim Breitner wrote: Not sure: Technically, for example, you can modify a program in any possible way just by having access to the assembler code that the compiler generates out of the closed sources, but this would be far too difficult to be

Re: Proposed: Debian's Five Freedoms for Free Works [humor]

2003-06-13 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Friday, Jun 13, 2003, at 04:57 US/Eastern, Joachim Breitner wrote: Unrestricted access to all not-common elements to produce the final product is a precondition for this. [...] Humans (non-common: the order of the 4 bases on the DNA string) :-) Hmmm... sounds like you're required to

Re: Habeas Email Filter License

2003-06-13 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Friday, Jun 13, 2003, at 21:07 US/Eastern, Daniel Quinlan wrote: a) cause SpamAssassin fail to meet the DFSG (or OSD) Yep, certainly does. And, in principle Habeas must not be free to stand a chance of working. [ For example, they'd fall afoul of at least the discrimination on fields

Re: The debate on Invariant sections (long)

2003-06-11 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wednesday, Jun 11, 2003, at 09:08 US/Eastern, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: I already asked the question here and it seems there is a consensus on that mailing list that a GFDL document without Invariant Sections and Cover Texts is 100 % free. It was a while ago until people noticed the

Re: Packages with non-original copyrighted sounds

2003-06-07 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sat, 2003-06-07 at 14:32, Roberto Gordo Saez wrote: Are public domain files (true public domain, copyright declined by the author) also restricted by default? Public domain means there is no copyright protection of the work. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message

Re: Source Code of Music (was: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL)

2003-06-03 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 22:56, Thomas Uwe Gruettmueller wrote: Somewhere on this planet, bandwith must be really cheap... 21715 Filigree Court, VA is one such place. Now if only power and space there were really cheap :-( signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: The debate on Invariant sections (long)

2003-06-03 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 16:37, Barak Pearlmutter wrote: Sure, and it's also perfectly plausible that RMS is a secret employee of Microsoft and Chinese double agent plotting the use of free software to assassinate the Dalai Lama. But this is debian-legal not debian-wacko-conspiracy-theory. The

Re: Open Software License

2003-06-03 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 16:16, Joey Hess wrote: c) to distribute copies of the Original Work and Derivative Works to the public, with the proviso that copies of Original Work or Derivative Works that You distribute shall be licensed under the Open Software License; ... 3) Grant of

Re: Joint Authorship Re: More fun with Title 17 USC

2003-06-02 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 22:04, James Miller wrote: To date, I'm not aware of any FOSS related cases, but perhaps SCO, Novell and IBM will provide something for us in this area? Personally, I doubt much of interest will come out of SCO vs. IBM.

Re: The debate on Invariant sections (long)

2003-06-02 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sun, 2003-06-01 at 14:58, Barak Pearlmutter wrote: And even the FSF will be bitten by it again, should someone add some text to the GDB manual which the FSF incorporates back into its master copy, and then the FSF decides to modify the that document's invariant parts. No, the FSF will

Re: The debate on Invariant sections (long)

2003-06-02 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 11:37, Barak Pearlmutter wrote: My understanding is that the FSF requires copyright assignments in order to give themselves the ability to most effectively defend the community against poachers and legal attacks. It would be a drastic misunderstanding to think they do it

Re: The debate on Invariant sections (long)

2003-05-29 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 19:57 US/Eastern, Richard Stallman wrote: In a nightmare one can imagine large numbers of cover texts in one manual, but it isn't likely to happen. Where the BSD advertising clause produced a mountain, the GFDL produces a molehill. At least one situation comes

Re: Bug #189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-29 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 23:21 US/Eastern, Steve Langasek wrote: Not all: the terms of section 3 talk about covered source code in very broad terms of all modules [the work] contains. Can you expand on your understanding of this phrase? Section 3 reads, in part: You may copy and

Re: More fun with Title 17 USC

2003-05-29 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 07:54, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think one coowner would be able to change the license terms of the work as a whole without the consent of the other coowners. He can. That's one of the things it being a joint work instead of a collective work means. Any author of

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-29 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 20:00, Jakob Bohm wrote: However the main point of my post was not that. My main point was that in Borland vs. Lotus, the issue placed before the court was the right to *re-implement* a compatible interface, not the right to implement things that *use* the interface.

Re: Incomplete licence - what to do?

2003-05-29 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 19:26, Artur R. Czechowski wrote: I will contact upstream to fix this licence but first I would like to know your opinion: what should I propose to the author as the new licence? MIT/X11: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php (new) BSD:

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-28 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 15:20 US/Eastern, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: Anthony DeRobertis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK, then I take it you're in favor filing seriouss bug against ftp.debian.org asking for the removal of apache-ssl and *many* more packages like it. Not quite -- I'd prefer

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-28 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 15:19 US/Eastern, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: All of those -- TCP, HTTP, and DEB -- are generic formats. .deb isn't. There is, AFAIK, only one implementation. At the very least, alien and dpkg deal with it; I believe there are others. If I remember correctly,

Re: Bug #189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-28 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 14:25 US/Eastern, Steve Langasek wrote: This assumes that the FSF's interpretation depends on the claim that dynamic linking creates a derived work. Well, from carefully reading the GPL, this appears to be what it says. A quote: a work based on the

Re: Bug #189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-28 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 12:22 US/Eastern, Nathanael Nerode wrote: First, any interface which could be used by humans is a method of operation. This is essentially all interfaces. That's a good question. I think the decision only covers interfaces that humans need to use to use the

Re: OpenLDAP Licenseing issues

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 10:26 PM, Howard Chu wrote: I used to have an additional clause in my freeware licenses - A copy of all modifications must be sent back to the author. Please be aware that clause fails the DFSG. Its OK to request that, of course.

Re: Packages with non-original copyrighted sounds

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 05:21 AM, Roberto Gordo Saez wrote: That make me suspect that the sounds are under a different license or, at least, requires a different copyright citation or author acknowlegde than the game itself when used individually. Probably. - xboing: Years ago i

Re: PHP-Nuke License Conclusion?

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 01:35 AM, Branden Robinson wrote: On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 06:21:59PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote: The branden dodges your magical sigh. The branden attacks you with a slew of words! The branden misses! Ridicule does nothing to help your argument. Of all the

Re: Removal of non-free (was Re: The debate on Invariant sections (long))

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Saturday, May 24, 2003, at 06:54 AM, MJ Ray wrote: Anthony DeRobertis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No. Wait until the voting GR is over. Then propose the get rid of non-free GR. Is proposing a GR your only version of reconsider? In general, no. In this specific case, since it requires

Re: The debate on Invariant sections (long)

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 04:38 PM, Dylan Thurston wrote: Actually, I'm a little unclear on the latter point. Yes, it is at least DFSG 3 that I and many others believe invariant sections violate. To what extent are non-functional restrictions OK for Debian? For instance, the GPL's

Re: Bug #189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used byGPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Saturday, May 24, 2003, at 03:51 PM, Nathanael Nerode wrote: Anthony DeRobertis then said: At some point, we've got to draw a line where it's de-clawed. After all, I think we all agree that if a shell script calls GNU grep[0], it isn't required to be under the GPL. This does not affect

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-25 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 03:30 PM, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: but given their authors licensed them in ways that forbid linking with non-GPL-compatible software, such as OpenSSL, that sounds reasonable Well, at least you're consistent ;-) Wait. Isn't dpkg under the GPL? Now everything

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-25 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Saturday, May 24, 2003, at 10:02 PM, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: Anthony DeRobertis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 01:45 PM, Stephen Ryan wrote: On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 09:52, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: The other option, of course, is that the kernel exec() function

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-23 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 01:45 PM, Stephen Ryan wrote: On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 09:52, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: The other option, of course, is that the kernel exec() function *is* a barrier, Debian *can* be used for real work and not just an exercise in ivory-tower masturbation. Well, I

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-23 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 09:52 AM, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: Let's take a concrete example: apache-ssl. In particular, it's postint. It uses adduser, which is under the GPL. It also uses update-rc.d, also under the GPL. So, as above, we have to say the postinst is available under the GPL.

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-22 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-05-21 at 11:59, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: I don't. If it makes use of features specific to the GNU version, it should either use the normally part of your OS exception, or if distributed with GNU grep be itself available under the GNU GPL. So every script that Debian distributes

Re: Removal of non-free (was Re: The debate on Invariant sections (long))

2003-05-22 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 00:04, Simon Law wrote: Is it an appropriate time to reconsider its mention in Section 4 of our Social Contract? No. Wait until the voting GR is over. Then propose the get rid of non-free GR.

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-21 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tue, 2003-05-20 at 05:15, Branden Robinson wrote: I am uncomfortable with some of the ramifications but I am also uncomfortable with totally declawing the GNU GPL by adopting and interpretation of it that would let people wrapper and language-bind their way out of the copyleft commons. At

Re: PHP-Nuke License Conclusion?

2003-05-17 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tue, 2003-05-13 at 08:35, Henning Makholm wrote: Your only point seems to be that *sometimes* the description of such almost-but-not-quite-GPL licensing terms is phrased in unclear and possibly inconsistent ways. This in no way entails that *every* set of almost-but-not-quite-GPL

Re: DFSG analysis of default LDP license

2003-05-17 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tue, 2003-05-13 at 02:41, Branden Robinson wrote: Colin Watson helpfully provided this information in a recent mail: 4. The location of the original unmodified document be identified. I feel that this clause might be problematic in a way that clauses 1, 2, and 3

Re: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL

2003-05-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-05-07 at 02:14, Branden Robinson wrote: Another good argument against the GNU FDL. Not to mention that publishing known false statements, like claiming it is a GNU Manual or that the FSF publishes copies, is of dubious legality. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-05-07 at 19:11, Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: P is not a derived work of GPLLib, but P+GPLLib is likely to be a derived work of GPLLib, in which case it is not allowed to distribute them together. In [EMAIL PROTECTED], I posted the legal definition of a derivative work in the

Re: LPPL and non-discrimination

2003-05-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tue, 2003-05-06 at 13:38, Jonathan Fine wrote: Suppose ABC Software takes a DFL and from it creates a new license (call it ABC-DFL) by adding the clause: If the licensee is ABC Software Inc then the licensee may freely incorporate this work into its proprietary software. My

Re: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL

2003-05-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-08 at 03:36, Anthony Towns wrote: We're not talking about music; we're talking about *sound recordings*. Actually, we're just talking about embedding sound in a GNU FDL document. Music, in case you hadn't noticed, is one form sound takes. That's right. You seem to keep

Re: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL

2003-05-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
Just noticed another problem: A Transparent copy of the Document means a machine-readable copy, represented in a format ... that is suitable for input to text formatters or for automatic translation to a variety of formats suitable for input to text formatters. ... A copy that

Re: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL

2003-05-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
I'm going to try again... I think somehow, we got off on a tangent of sheet music which blurs the issue. Ignoring my previous message about not being able to have sound be a transparent copy at all: I hope we can agree that: 1) Transparent copies of a document are required for

Re: GFDL Freeness and Cover Texts

2003-05-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-08 at 20:17, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: They are also not enforceable in the US. Can you please provide a citation for this? I've never been able to come up with one. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL

2003-05-07 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 10:03 AM, Anthony Towns wrote: you should be able to do a text representation of a FFT or something, I would've thought. Long, and ugly, but editable as text, That's no better than a hex dump of the PCM data. It's not any more editable in a text editor (possibly,

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-05-07 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 01:50 AM, Branden Robinson wrote: Or are you wanting to restrict the problem domain to cases where an interface innovated in a GPLed library hasn't been cloned yet? Given: 1) Library GPLLib is under the GPL 2) Perl module Iface provides an

Re: Bug#191717: automake1.6: install-sh licensing nightmare?

2003-05-07 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 03:53 AM, Branden Robinson wrote: Is your argument that because of the nature of GNU automake, it might be causing our users to inadvertently infringe MIT's copyright? Yes, that's the argument. See the first paragraph under the quoted material, which reads in

Re: GFDL Freeness and Cover Texts

2003-05-06 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sun, 2003-05-04 at 17:29, MJ Ray wrote: Does the advertising clause restrict your ability to modify the original work more than copyright law? No, it restricts my ability to modify _other_ works, which, IMO, is far worse. Personally, I don't think the DFSG allows it, except by

Re: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL

2003-05-05 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Fri, 2003-05-02 at 16:48, Anthony Towns wrote: No, you wouldn't. There seem to me to be plenty of ways to have an XML format for music that would be plausibly editable. Think scores and things. Works great for some types of music, but other types is routinely put through a lot of filters,

Re: GFDL Freeness and Cover Texts

2003-05-05 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sat, 2003-05-03 at 21:28, Michael D. Crawford wrote: But what if it isn't? Must we only have the black-and-white distinction that invariant sections or cover texts are never allowed, or could we allow them if they are truthful? The cause is the non-freeness; one symptom of the

Re: GFDL Freeness and Cover Texts

2003-05-05 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sun, 2003-05-04 at 01:22, Michael D. Crawford wrote: It's not just that I want to ensure I be personally be given proper credit for writing the articles, but that I ensure that future readers are always told that they can look to http://linuxquality.sunsite.dk/ for the originals or

Re: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL

2003-05-02 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Fri, 2003-05-02 at 02:43, Anthony Towns wrote: On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 10:19:24PM -0400, Anthony DeRobertis wrote: What's stopping you from doing all your music in some XML format, anyway? [...] Forcing you to convert mp3s to XML I'd assume: A 'Transparent' copy of the Document

Re: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL

2003-05-01 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 09:52, Anthony Towns wrote: I can't see how that's even meaningful. How do you make a soundfile part of a text document? It'd no longer be a plain-text document. To take a random example, you could create a HyperCard stack (ignoring that HyperCard isn't free, for a moment

Re: various opinions on Debian vs the GFDL

2003-05-01 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 22:15, Joey Hess wrote: I was amused the other day to find abiword, when I asked it to save a document as html, offering to inline the images in the document in base64 encoding. OK, I'll dig it up... RFC2397: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2397.txt I'm not sure what

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 18:58, Steve Langasek wrote: Any chance you'd care to comment on the underlying question of whether Debian should or should not accede to the FSF's claim that GPL modules for interpreted languages demand GPL scripts? I think he's too busy taking over the world to do

Re: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tue, 2003-04-29 at 15:22, Brian M. Carlson wrote: ^^^ Uhh, I didn't know that the IETF issued RFCs in the future. Perhaps you meant April 2003? Might have something to do with [EMAIL PROTECTED], or the effect of that on me :-D signature.asc Description: This is a

Re: query from Georg Greve of GNU about Debian's opinion of the FDL

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sun, 2003-04-27 at 18:59, Nathanael Nerode wrote: This appears to represent a consensus view of Debian: * Some people believe that immutable sections are not acceptable in a free document, Aye. but a majority of Debian seems to think that immutable sections are free provided they

Re: query from Georg Greve of GNU about Debian's opinion of the FDL

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sun, 2003-04-27 at 23:47, Nathanael Nerode wrote: As a final note, 'moral rights' are *not* 'copyrights', and a copyright license should not attempt to have anything to do with them, any more than it should have anything to do with patent rights, design rights, or trademarks! You are

Re: [OT] Droit d'auteur vs. free software? (Was: query from Georg Greve of GNU about Debian's opinion of the FDL

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-04-30 at 12:37, Henning Makholm wrote: sub 2. The work must not be changed or made available to the public in a way or in a context that violates the author's literary or artistic reputation or character. So, I assume that if a work which has artistic or literary

Re: Legal questions about some GNU Emacs files

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 18:58, Alex Romosan wrote: in no way, shape, or form do i think anybody should have the right to edit somebody else's political statement. Why? I can certainly see why they shouldn't be able to edit someone else's political statement without clearly noting they have done

Re: Legal questions about some GNU Emacs files

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 20:09, Alex Romosan wrote: wow, what can i say?! everything is software!? an infinite number of monkeys, at an infinite number of keyboards will eventually define all that is software... So? That's true of any set of works composed of a finite set of elements. Sit them

Re: Legal questions about some GNU Emacs files

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 19:34, Alex Romosan wrote: i've read the DFSG now a million times and all i can see is references to software and source code. it doesn't say anything about documentation, Nor does the Social Contract. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Legal questions about some GNU Emacs files

2003-04-30 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
so if it isn't code, and it isn't used to generate code, or doesn't affect the build and run-time of a program, then it ain't software. OK, now define code. Let's try an example. PostScript is a programming language. It is Turing-complete (w/ the exception of finite resources in

Re: Incremental revisions (Was: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL

2003-04-28 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 06:45, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: Therefore, the IETF is insane often :-) No argument there.

Re: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL

2003-04-27 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 03:12, Henning Makholm wrote: The current status of the preamble goes much farther than that. It says that I must not reuse the wordings in the preamble for composing a text that expresses *my* views on licensing (and makes clear that they are mine, not the FSF's).

Re: LPPL and non-discrimination

2003-04-27 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 05:08, Jonathan Fine wrote: Now to the problem. Debian guideline 5 states The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons. That guideline is intended to disallow things like If you're French, you may not use this package. The license must be

Re: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL

2003-04-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
What About Unmodifiable Software Licenses Like the GNU GPL? Strike that text! It's not true. Noting http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#ModifyGPL, let me try: start new answer The Free Software Foundation clarifies what it means by ...but changing [the GPL] is not allowed in

Re: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL

2003-04-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Fri, 2003-04-25 at 11:26, Jeremy Hankins wrote: On one hand, the benefits to be gained from a free-software-like approach to purely artistic/aesthetic (i.e., non-functional) works aren't as obvious. A rather ironic statement in a Bazaar-type development of the wording of a position

Re: Is documentation different from software [Re: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL]

2003-04-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Fri, 2003-04-25 at 22:27, Matthew Palmer wrote: Except that it's typically a lot easier to work out where a program has been incompatibly modified (oops, compile error, damn, the API changed) than a standard has been modified. The use of 'diff' notwithstanding. Well, when you modify a

Re: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL

2003-04-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Fri, 2003-04-25 at 22:33, Matthew Palmer wrote: RFC authors do it all the time, by issuing updates to existing RFC documents. They say Do it like this, except for this, this, and this. No, that's generally only done for tiny changes: Adding a bit here or there, etc. For large changes, the

Re: Proposed statement wrt GNU FDL

2003-04-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thu, 2003-04-24 at 12:34, Henning Makholm wrote: Of course both of these limits are judgement calls, and each particular Invariant-But-Removable section will have to be considered on a case-by-case basis. [Hmmm.. so I think at least, but I'm not sure that this is a

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-04-26 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 01:17, Steve Langasek wrote: I am not arguing that dynamic linking creates a derivative work, and I'm not sure the FSF is, either. I *am* arguing that it is within the purview of the GPL to impose restrictions on redistribution of dependent works whether or not these

Re: Bug#189164: libdbd-mysql-perl uses GPL lib, may be used by GPL-incompatible apps

2003-04-20 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-04-16 at 19:19, Steve Langasek wrote: My question is, how is a package that depends on DBD::mysql materially different from a compiled program that links dynamically against libmysqlclient? A ''derivative work'' is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as

Re: query from Georg Greve of GNU about Debian's opinion of the FDL

2003-04-19 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 15:24, Anthony Towns wrote: [1] http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2001-October/000624.html The rule is that the invariant section can contain anything as long as it is not the subject matter of the article. In particular, the invariant section can

Re: Non-free source package with downloadable parts

2003-04-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
3(d) Any direct or indirect distribution of any Bundled Products by you shall be under the terms of a license agreement containing terms that: (i) prohibit any modifications to the Derivative Works or any part thereof, Ouch. Depending on what constitutes a

Re: Dissident versus ASP

2003-03-25 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-03-19 at 17:24, Mark Rafn wrote: The written offer option stinks. Ok, that's a pretty weak counterargument, I'll think more about this. I'm pretty confident that if 3(a) were not part of the GPL (leaving only the written offer option), that the license would not meat the DFSG.

Re: the FSF's definition of Free Software and its value for Debian

2003-03-25 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-03-19 at 19:51, Jakob Bohm wrote: I don't know, but if there are not, and a lot of people start using such licenses, the big media companies are likely to get their supporters in government to enact an amendment stating that just because the copyright holders of *some* works

Re: MPL 1.0?

2003-03-25 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 12:01, John Goerzen wrote: My understanding, at least with Mozilla, was that it was dual-licensed as MPL/GPL because of some problems with the MPL. Actually, it's tri-licensed as MPL/LGPL/GPL, or at least that's the goal. http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/ and

Re: OSD DFSG - different purposes - constructive suggestion!

2003-03-14 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 05:05 AM, Anthony Towns wrote: Giving away CDs at tradeshows that don't include source comes under 3(b). I suppose you could arrange to give everyone both binary and source CDs, then ask them to give the latter back to you. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-

Re: Bug#180798: ITP: multisync -- A program to syncronize PIM data

2003-03-08 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-03-05 at 15:51, Branden Robinson wrote: Got shot in the face when answering your door? You should have answered the door in body armor, wearing an iron helmet and wielding an AK-47, or not answered the door at all. Almost, except you forgot the right wing's love of the death

Re: Bug#180798: ITP: multisync -- A program to syncronize PIM data

2003-02-14 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 04:30 PM, Henning Makholm wrote: Just a random thought: There used to be an informal rule saying, never write a false statement on the blackboard. Some student is bound to mindlessly copy it down and take it for truth. I used to insert well-placed

Re: Bug#180798: ITP: multisync -- A program to syncronize PIM data

2003-02-13 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 22:21, Don Armstrong wrote: What is the currently recommended method for adding a linking exception (say with OpenSSL) to a program licensed under the GPL? http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WritingFSWithNFLibs Scroll down a little to the line reading: In

Re: license for patch?

2003-02-12 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 03:34 PM, Henning Makholm wrote: author to explicitly disclaim copyright (i.e. make it public domain). A possible statement would be ... | royalty-free, non-exclusive, world-wide license to any copyright on That's not public domain, that's just a very

Re: Two large groups of non-free fonts in main.

2002-12-24 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 20:36, Terry Hancock wrote: Do you mean by this that the US Copyright office does not recognize bitmap fonts as copyrightable work? (If so, this would be good to know). The copyright office does not recognize fonts, period, as a copyrightable work. However, it does

Re: Two large groups of non-free fonts in main.

2002-12-23 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 03:53, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: Note, while this is filed against xfonts-75dpi, Aren't those bitmap fonts? If so, there is no copyright in the US at least.

Re: EULA with GPL??

2002-12-17 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 02:01 AM, Terry Hancock wrote: Does the GPL as written (Vers. 2) allow a distributor of a modified software to impose a *use* restriction on users? At first, I thought, No way!, but I see the other guy's point ... Iff the law were to allow such

Re: EULA with GPL??

2002-12-17 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 02:56 AM, Glenn Maynard wrote: The GPL doesn't remove my right to sign a contract promising not to do something, and I believe this is a commonplace and legitimate--if annoying--practice that the GPL supports: companies can have employees sign NDAs, preventing

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-14 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 20:57, Richard Braakman wrote: And section 3 specifically says distribute under the terms of Sections 1 and 2, so it can't be more permissive than those sections. In fact, it imposes an extra requirement. That's not quite correct. Section 1 covers distributing the

Re: the Free Art License and the DFSG

2002-12-14 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sat, 2002-12-14 at 02:29, David B Harris wrote: I don't believe part 7 is saying anything additional to what copyright law already says; the original author still holds the copyright, even if you got the data from friend who got the data from a sister who got the data from an aunt who got

Re: question about leaving lzw and unknown-license code in source

2002-11-11 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Monday, November 11, 2002, at 11:59 AM, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: Nope. We cannot distribute software that doesn't have a proper license (the Siemens stuff) or is affected by patents (the lzw stuff). Fortunately, the lzw patent expires this coming June.

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