Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: [A] These would have to be factual inaccuracies in a secondary section (which rather limits the scope of any such inaccuracy). On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 08:13:05AM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: It could also be Cover Texts. The documentation currently distributed by the

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: Raul Miller wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 09:44:27AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: Unless the derived document falls under section 7, AGGREGATION WITH INDEPENDENT WORKS (which requires that more than half of the document consists of independent work not derived from the

Re: Draft Debian-legal summary of the LGPL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Humberto Massa wrote: snip Yeah, but if they require forced co-distribution, I understand that they are considered generally non-DFSG-free. You can require that the source be distributed to the person to whom you are distributing the binary. You can't require that it be distributed to anyone

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 02:57:51PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: Your copy of the DFSG must be missing clause 3. | 3. Derived Works | | The license must allow modifications and derived works, and must | allow them to be distributed under the same terms as the license of

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Anthony DeRobertis wrote: On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 10:07:10AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 09:18:00AM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: Oh. Well, the GFDL with Invariant Sections requires bloat in distributed binaries. Where the GFDL is used to license programs, it's

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: So, in essence, you think that the DFSG says we must disallow the distribution of gcc if its license prevents you distributing copies which have been functionally modified to better integrate with microsoft's palladium? On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 05:22:11PM +0100,

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 02:16:35PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: These are three non-solutions with respect to the freedom to make arbitrary functional modifications to the work - which lies that the very core of the DFSG. Given that arbitrary functional modifications

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: snip Making copies of the derived work is *not* forbidden by the GPL. You mean because it's outside the scope of the GPL? No, because clause (2b) only applies to distribution. Copying of modified versions in source form is allowed provided the conditions in (2a), (2c),

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 05:23:21PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: Nothing prevents them from doing so. That, however, does not affect the *fact* that, for whatever reasons, they do not *actually* do so. Hence a claim that they do is *factually incorrect*. I'm very dubious

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 05:44:05PM -0600, Joe Moore wrote: keep intact does not mean the same as unmodified. But we're still talking about a case where not all derived works are allowed. Duh! We have stated that certain restrictions on derived works are OK. But only a

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 09:35:02PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote: snip With the exception of a very narrow set of restrictions related to copyright acknowledgement and warranty disclaimers, the nature of changes to the code is not restricted by the GPL. Eh? He means what

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 05:37:51PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: This is allowed by the GPL and required to be allowed by the DFSG, of course, as long as the resulting gcc binary can be distributed under the terms of the GPL. The GPL doesn't care what kinds of changes you

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 09:33:52AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: snip Being unmodifiable violates the usual fully general interpretation of the DFSG. Unfortunately, that interpetation isn't really fully general (and, if carried to the limit, would only allow us to distribute

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: So, in essence, you think that the DFSG says we must disallow the distribution of gcc if its license prevents you distributing copies which have been functionally modified to better integrate with microsoft's palladium? On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 09:13:13AM -0700, Josh

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: Sure, it's all programs except ___ or not everything. That's pretty much my point. Yeah, we accept that certain *very limited* restrictions on modification are Free. So why do you keep going on about this stuff? There's a short list of OK restrictions we've already

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 04:18:22PM -0400, Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: as the GFDL. The parenthetical is false. The GPL does not require that it be included in the distributed work, merely with the distributed work. I don't think this is a very meaningful distinction,

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 09:57:41AM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: Now, again, some restrictions on creating derived works are generally considered acceptable. But required inclusion of arbitrary lumps of text in a particular manner certainly isn't one of them (even

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: snip On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 04:32:36PM -0400, Anthony DeRobertis wrote: WTF? Have you read the GFDL? Yes. A 'Secondary Section' is a named appendix or a front-matter section of the Document that deals exclusively with the relationship of the publishers or authors of

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Sun, May 09, 2004 at 05:30:28AM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: Well, making a copy in RAM is making a copy, legally; this is apparently the caselaw in the US. I'm sorry that I don't have the reference. Loading a register might also also constitute copying

Re: copyrightable vs. copyrighted (was Re: databases not copyrightable in the USA)

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Andrew Suffield wrote: On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 02:36:14PM +0200, Martin Dickopp wrote: snip The proper terms for what you describe here are copyright does not subsist in this work, where the verb is subsist (alternatively copyright protection does not subsist, but even lawyers don't usually

Re: Theoretical Library License

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Humberto Massa wrote: @ 10/05/2004 16:44 : wrote Benjamin Cutler : Humberto Massa wrote: @ 10/05/2004 16:26 : wrote Benjamin Cutler : **The library itself would be GPL.** See below :-) I just added some additional freedoms/terms for people who want to make

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Glenn Maynard wrote: On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 05:13:41PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: volumes Are you having a spooling problem? Eighteen (and counting?) mails just Maybe I am, actually. arrived in rapid succession, mostly to messages that are several days old. If you're really

Re: sendmail X license (fwd)

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Richard A Nelson wrote: I've been asked to run this by a larger audience... They honestly want feedback, so I'll collect any thoughts/gripes/whathaveyou and send them back. Use, modification and redistribution (including distribution of any modified or derived work) of the Software in

Re: Should ipw2100-source be in contrib?

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Josh Triplett wrote: Guido Trotter wrote: The code for ipw2100 is free software. To load the driver you'll need a firmware which is non-free and subject to an EULA (for details see http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net/firmware.php?fid=2). Debian cannot thus distribute this thing (the firmware),

Re: DFSG#3 (was Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL)

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: What it actually says isn't enough for our purposes -- you could say it's too tolerant of licensing problems. On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 05:59:25PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: OK. I would interpret it as meaning must allow most modifications and derived works

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 04:18:22PM -0400, Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: as the GFDL. The parenthetical is false. The GPL does not require that it be included in the distributed work, merely with the distributed work. I don't

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 08:55:21PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: I really don't see where you are getting at. Can you explain in little words and with lots of intermediate results why you think that a GCC modified for you hypothetical environment would be non-distributable?

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: On May 10, 2004, at 07:16, Raul Miller wrote: Note that content under a patches only license will give you much worse problems when incorporating it (perhaps as examples, or perhaps pulling documentation from a help menu item) into other documentation. On Mon, May 10,

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: Given that arbitrary functional modifications would include illegal activities On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 02:59:14PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: It does. A license that tries to incorporate you must follow the law clauses is non-free. That is a longstanding and clear

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: snip On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 09:18:28PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: Why not? Because palladium is a proprietary work, and it's more than just an OS. I'll grant that if the changes were limited to what was required to get the OS to support it, that would probably be

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-16 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * allow requirements which prohibit things which would be illegal even if the original work were in the public domain The summary is overall excellent, but I disagree with this one point. In general, choice-of-law

Re: sendmail X license (fwd)

2004-05-17 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Walter Landry wrote: Rather, they would file in California court, because that is where California law is decided. The whole point of choice of law clauses is to force everything to happen in a particular place. No; to my knowledge, this is simply wrong. California law can be decided in

Re: IBM Public License (again)

2004-05-17 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Walter Landry wrote: But the venue doesn't necessarily favor one party over the other. Both sides waiving the right to a jury trial? Yes, it doesn't necessarily favor one party over the other. (Neither does choice of venue, which we also Don't Like.) I still think it's non-free; I mean, gee,

Re: copyrightable vs. copyrighted (was Re: databases not copyrightable in the USA)

2004-05-17 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Andrew Suffield wrote: I don't see what's so interesting about the group of things in which copyright would subsist if the world were different. Perhaps you've missed the point. I'll try more detail: Whether there exists a valid copyright on a work depends on * aspects intrinsic to the work *

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-20 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Henning Makholm wrote: Scripsit Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have allowed clauses of the fairly narrow form You must not do thing X with this work if it is illegal to do so in your jurisdiction before, though I don't care for such stupid clauses. If we have, we shouldn't have

Re: IBM documentation license

2004-05-20 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Eduard Bloch wrote: Hello, I have problems interpreting the following copyright statement which covers the documenting of the ICU library from IBM (which itself is free). IMHO it is non-free, however it is full of juristical english and may be acceptable for main if one can extract the

Re: A radical approach to rewriting the DFSG

2004-05-30 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Henning Makholm wrote: I have been toying with the possibility of rewriting the DFSG such that it enumerates which things a free license *can* do, rather than just give examples of things it *cannot*. Well, I like the approach a lot. I think that such a revision could get the guidelines to

Re: libkrb53 - odd license term

2004-06-02 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Glenn Maynard wrote: OpenVision also retains copyright to derivative works of the Source Code, whether created by OpenVision or by a third party. This sounds completely unacceptable, if it means what it says. It's also probably invalid in the US. Copyright assignments must be signed and

Re: A radical approach to rewriting the DFSG

2004-06-02 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Scripsit Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would be quite comfortable allowing patent retaliation restrictions, but only if they were very carefully tailored. Specifically, license rights must terminate only if the work is alleged to constitute patent infringement (no action based

Re: A radical approach to rewriting the DFSG

2004-06-02 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Glenn Maynard wrote: As a brief observation unrelated to this subthread: this also implicitly deals with the GPL#8 problem, by not requiring any special casing for the GPL at all. On Tue, Jun 01, 2004 at 12:00:03AM +0100, Andrew Suffield wrote: I'd like to append something like the

Re: ipw2100 firmware distributable?

2004-06-02 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Sebastian Ley wrote: Hello legal wizards, I need some advice about a license, my legal-english is not enough to determine whether the ipw2100 (popular wifi chipset) firmware by Intel is distributable in non-free. The license can be found here:

Re: A radical approach to rewriting the DFSG

2004-06-02 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Glenn Maynard wrote: On Wed, Jun 02, 2004 at 08:12:28PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: It's been allowed mostly because they don't really enforce it. For instance, Debian's modified version of Apache, which is a derived work, has apache in its name. Furthermore, they've stated

Re: libkrb53 - odd license term

2004-06-02 Thread Nathanael Nerode
MJ Ray wrote: On 2004-06-03 02:19:55 +0100 Walter Landry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they really meant to steal the work, then the whole license may be invalid. In which case, Debian has no permission to distribute at all. So I think a clarification is definitely in order. Why? What

Re: Bug#251983: libcwd: QPL license is non-free; package should not be in main

2004-06-05 Thread Nathanael Nerode
posted mailed Carlo Wood wrote: On Thu, Jun 03, 2004 at 10:15:26PM -0400, Walter Landry wrote: As for 6c, I am convinced by the arguments in http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/03/msg00626.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/03/msg00626.html which render its

Re: Which license for a documentation?

2004-06-05 Thread Nathanael Nerode
MJ Ray wrote: On 2004-06-04 11:43:45 +0100 Matthieu Delahaye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I just want to know if there is a list of common license for documentation that are definitively known to be DFSG free. I'm not sure about definitive, but generally most DFSG-free licences

Re: Which license for a documentation?

2004-06-05 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Måns Rullgård wrote: MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 2004-06-04 11:43:45 +0100 Matthieu Delahaye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I just want to know if there is a list of common license for documentation that are definitively known to be DFSG free. I'm not sure about definitive,

Re: Which license for a documentation?

2004-06-05 Thread Nathanael Nerode
posted mailed Matthieu Delahaye wrote: Hi, I'm currently working on a correct debianisation of uC++ [1] with their author. They already provide debian packages but they are not 100% respecting Debian policies. The author wrote a consistent manual for this software [2]. Currently the

Re: Which license for a documentation?

2004-06-05 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Josh Triplett wrote: MJ Ray wrote: Related, is the following licence DFSG-free: I grant permission to you to do any act with my work. Please ask me to link to mirrors. Please link to this site and credit the contributors. No warranty offered and no liability accepted. Please link to

Re: Creative Commons Attribution license element

2004-06-08 Thread Nathanael Nerode
posted mailed Evan Prodromou wrote: snip Making our organization's ideas known to Creative Commons could have meant a better suite of licenses for the 2.0 release. Instead, the opportunity was missed. As far as I know, the above-mentioned analysis wasn't forwarded to Creative Commons before

Re: Mozilla Public License is non-free: stipulates court venue ?

2004-06-08 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Jim Marhaus wrote: Hi all - With the recent discussion about choice of venue, I was wondering about the Mozilla license. Specifically, the Mozilla Public License v. 1.1 [1] seems to contain a choice of venue clause in section 11: | With respect to disputes in which at least one party

Re: license change for POSIX manpages

2004-06-08 Thread Nathanael Nerode
posted mailed Andre Lehovich wrote: (Please cc: me on replies) The upstream source for the manpages has received permission from IEEE to include text from the POSIX documentation in Linux manual pages. Debian has not distributed the POSIX man pages because until recently the license

Re: Creative Commons Attribution license element

2004-06-08 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Evan Prodroumou wrote: On the Creative Commons side, I'd wonder what opportunity there is to get Debian's very tardy comments and critiques applied to new versions of the CC licenses. Perhaps if they read their own mailing list?... The trademark issue appears to be an issue solely with the web

Re: Draft Summary: MPL is not DFSG free

2004-06-11 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: Jim Marhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED]: snip | With respect to disputes in which at least one party is a citizen | of, or an entity chartered or registered to do business in the | United States of America, any litigation relating to this License |

Re: license change for POSIX manpages

2004-06-11 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Florian Weimer wrote: * Josh Triplett: Agreed. In the text could imply right next to where you differ from the standard, which would probably be unreasonable enough to be non-free. Without the in the text, modifiers could simply add a blanket notice somewhere in the distributed work

Re: Draft Summary: MPL is not DFSG free

2004-06-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Matthew Palmer wrote: I'm pretty sure though, that absent a decision from a higher court, a court can choose to hear any case it wants to -- if that court decides to hear your case, either you appear or you're toast.  Different courts just have different rules about what constitutes a valid

Re: Creative Commons Attribution license element

2004-06-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
posted mailed Evan Prodromou wrote: NN == Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: NN Actually, I think most of clause 4b is fine; it's only one NN little bit of it which is troublesome. Thanks for your close attention. This is really helpful. 4b to the extent

Re: Creative Commons Attribution license element

2004-06-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Evan Prodromou wrote: AS == Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Me One thing that bothers me, though, is how this becomes 'barely Me free'. AS Freedom is a binary test; a work is either free, or it is AS not. There is no partially free or semi-free. So barely

Re: Draft Summary: MPL is not DFSG free

2004-06-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Lex Spoon wrote: Brian Thomas Sniffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *snip* Almost all free licenses are not contracts. I cannot think of any Free license which *is* a contract, but there might, I suppose, be one out there. Given American law requires an exchange, I can't see how. What do you

Re: Unfortunate Licence Mix

2004-06-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
posted mailed Joachim Breitner wrote: Hi, I was just about to package psybnc[1], a popular irc bouncer. A closer look into the src/ dir revealed that the author seems to have followed the Free Software spirit by not re-inventing a lot of wheels, but didn't pay close attention to legal

Re: license change for POSIX manpages

2004-06-14 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Francesco Poli wrote: Moreover, the GPL requires that *source code* be accompanied or offered. This POSIX license requires that *nroff source* be included. What if I created a derivative work by step 0) converting it from nroff to some other typesetting language (e.g. DocBook XML,

How aggressively should non-distributability bugs be dealt with?

2004-06-15 Thread Nathanael Nerode
I ask because of #242895. In the Linux kernel, drivers/usb/misc/emi26_fw.h has a specific proprietary rights statement which does not give permission to distribute. The previous kernel maintainer merged it with other bugs (IMO incorrectly) and proceeded to ignore it for at least four uploads.

Re: Summary Update: MPL inconclusive, clarifications needed

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
to defend themselves. This doesn't seem to be a stock choice of venue clause, though. It only applies when there is a US party and some have claimed that the choice of venue clause would not necessarily prevent a US defendant being heard in their local court, such as Nathanael Nerode in http

Re: Summary Update: MPL inconclusive, clarifications needed

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Mahesh T. Pai wrote: MJ Ray said on Wed, Jun 23, 2004 at 05:18:22PM +0100,: If there are no active patents covering the software, Patent owners' policies may change. Patents are patents, actively enforced or not. If the license does not grant a patent license in respect of

Re: Draft Summary: MPL is not DFSG free

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Lex Spoon wrote: Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean? In order to gain the licenses GPL grants you, you must comply with all of the terms. Some of those terms require that you perform in some way, e.g. by distributing source code. Actually, as far as I can tell

Re: Free Linux Kernel

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
posted mailed .jareeN. wrote: Sorry if this is a really silly/of_topic question. It's not. I am a LFS user and I want to use free Linux kernel for my GNU/Linux system, by free I mean which is free from binaries and non-free code. Does such a kernel exists ? I mean some kind of patch.

Re: scummvm dependent games: non-free?

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Joachim Breitner wrote: Hi, Am Fr, den 25.06.2004 schrieb Gerfried Fuchs um 12:11: 3) You may not charge a fee for the game itself. This includes reselling the game as an individual item. Doesn't this violate point 1 of the DFSG? AFAIK it is ok, as long as it is allowed to

Re: Bug#254596: jftpgw: Several license problems

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Romain Francoise wrote: Package: jftpgw Version: 0.13.5-1 Severity: serious The jftpgw package currently distributed in Debian has two license problems: 1. The source contains a file named snprintf.c that doesn't contain any copyright notice or license header. It appears to be

Re: How long is it acceptable to leave *undistributable* files in the kernel package?

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Michael Poole wrote: Brian Thomas Sniffen writes: snip It's a unilateral license. It can't mean anything but what he intends it to mean. Reference, please? That is Alice in Wonderland logic (Words mean exactly what I want them to mean, neither more nor less.). I hope that a license

Re: gens License Check - Non-free

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Michael Poole wrote: Raul Miller writes: Because the linux kernel does not represent mere aggregation of one part of the kernel with some other part on some storage volume. It's not a coincidence that the parts of the kernel are there together. The usual contention is that having some

Re: RFC: moving from BSD to GPL

2004-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Francesco P. Lovergine wrote: Is it possible for an upstream to change license from a BSD-old to GPL? Consider the hypothesis that the product is a derivative work with a few old contributors. I see no reasons to do not relicense after adding a credits note as required in the BSD license.

appropriate trademark licensing (was Re: GUADEC report)

2004-07-11 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Josh Triplett wrote: I believe the issue is that unlike patents and copyrights, unenforced trademarks become diluted and no longer enforcable. Terminology confusion here; dilution is a separate concept from enforcability. Look up trademark infrignment and trademark dilution. Indeed, an

Re: DRAFT: debian-legal summary of the QPL

2004-07-11 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Josh Triplett wrote: Here is a proposed summary of the QPL 1.0, based on the relevant threads on debian-legal. Suggestions are welcome, as well as statements of whether or not this DRAFT summary accurately represents your position. Please note that until other debian-legal participants

Re: DRAFT: debian-legal summary of the QPL

2004-07-11 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Josh Triplett wrote: MJ Ray wrote: Josh, Good summary. I think you've taken recent discussions about them into account a bit. I've a few comments... Thanks. You had mentioned that it would be better to word summaries in terms of software covered by the license, rather than the license

Re: DRAFT: debian-legal summary of the QPL

2004-07-11 Thread Nathanael Nerode
MJ Ray wrote: snip Unfortunately, FSF is mostly a black box to outsiders like me. To almost everyone. I have asked them questions sometimes, but the answers so far have been slow, incomplete and/or cautious first-line responses, rather than involving any words from the decision-makers.

Re: DRAFT: debian-legal summary of the QPL

2004-07-11 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Glenn Maynard wrote: On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 11:35:58AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: That should be mentioned, yes. It should also be noted in such a suggestion that this alternative would be GPL-incompatible. Also, such a license takes advantage of the deprecated DFSG 4, which may or may

Re: DRAFT: debian-legal summary of the QPL

2004-07-11 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Mahesh T. Pai wrote: MJ Ray said on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 10:24:26AM +0100,: Personally, I'm not sure that is as much of a problem as the requirement to distribute unpublished mods to a central authority on request. I'd be interested to know whether this aspect of the tests is

Re: DRAFT: debian-legal summary of the QPL

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Raul Miller wrote: Likewise, if the change author is on a desert island, I don't see how the change author can receive any requests. Via a message dropped from a passing airplane. Duh! -- There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Re: Licening ibwebadmin and JSRS

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Remco Seesink wrote: Hello, Licening issues resolved! Thanks all. Cheers, Remco. Begin forwarded message: Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 15:39:00 -0400 From: Brent Ashley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Remco Seesink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Licening ibwebadmin and JSRS Thank

Re: RE-PROPOSED: The Dictator Test

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: Josh Triplett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Good point about warranty disclaimers, though. Assuming you acquired the software lawfully, then you would have the right to use the software, and the right to sue the author if it didn't work, so this test as written would

Re: RE-PROPOSED: The Dictator Test

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Branden Robinson wrote: Reaction to my earlier proposal[1] appears to be basically positive. Not everyone thought I picked the best name for it, though. Nevertheless, I'd like to move forward, and propose the addition of the following to the DFSG FAQ[2]. The Dictator Test: A

Re: RE-PROPOSED: The Dictator Test

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Andrew Suffield wrote: On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 08:36:12PM +0100, Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: Josh Triplett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Good point about warranty disclaimers, though. Assuming you acquired the software lawfully, then you would have the right to use the software, and the right to

Re: License of Debian-specific parts in packages, generally and in particular

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Frank Küster wrote: Hi, in particular, tetex-base has a woeful copyright file (#218105), and while I'm trying to resolve this, I came across the fact that some of the Debian-specific code (maintainer scripts, templates,...) does not have a license statement. The maintainer scripts don't

Re: Apple's APSL 2.0 Debian Free Software Guidelines-compliant?

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Josh Triplett wrote: Nathanael Nerode wrote: Ryan Rasmussen wrote: 10. Trademarks. This License does not grant any rights to use the trademarks or trade names Apple, Apple Computer, Mac, Mac OS, QuickTime, QuickTime Streaming Server or any other trademarks, service marks, logos or trade names

Re: CC-based proposal (was FDL: no news?)

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Evan Prodromou wrote: On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 19:08, MJ Ray wrote: Numerous people have tried many angles. More are welcome, as we clearly haven't found the correct approach yet. So, I'd like to write a draft summary for the 6 Creative Commons 2.0 licenses:

Re: CC-based proposal (was FDL: no news?)

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
posted mailed Thibaut VARENE wrote: First, let me try to define what I'm calling non-software: Stop. Call it non-programs. Here, when we say software, we mean it ain't hardware. snip Now, the whole idea of applying the same freeness criteria to what I call non-software content, looks like

Re: RE-PROPOSED: The Dictator Test

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Branden Robinson wrote: Forwarding with permission of author, who accidentally replied privately. - Forwarded message from Juergen Weigert [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: Juergen Weigert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE-PROPOSED: The Dictator

Re: xinetd license possibly violates DFSG #4

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Sam Hartman wrote: snip I think I'll probably end up agreeing with you if I consider this long enough. However it would make things much simpler if you could think of a case where this limitation would affect our users' freedom in some important way. For example, how is this different

Re: xinetd license possibly violates DFSG #4

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Andreas Metzler wrote: On Mon, Jun 14, 2004 at 10:24:44AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: [...] 1. The version number will be modified as follows: a. The first 3 components of the version number (i.e number.number.number) will remain unchanged. b. A new component will

Re: historical question about fceu in contrib

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Evan Prodromou wrote: snip It's probably not a good idea to take every discussion on debian-legal as an argument. My theory at the time was that the old PC emulators' dependence on non-free system OS ROMs (like the atari800 package) had been fossilized into a policy that _all_ emulators

Re: scummvm dependent games: non-free?

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Branden Robinson wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:40:44AM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: This is basically a trick of wording. If the license lets you ship it with the one-character shell script containing the letter 'w' and charge for that, then that's good enough. I continue to assert

Re: Visualboy Advance question.

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I put xtrs in contrib because without the ROM (or a DFSG-free OS for the TRS-80 Model 4P, which doesn't exist or at the very least isn't packaged), the only thing it will do is display an error message that no ROM was found.

Re: Visualboy Advance question.

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Francesco Poli wrote: On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:50:35 +1000 Matthew Palmer wrote: snip Let me ask you this: if there was an image viewer, which only viewed one format of images, and there were no images out there in that format, would you want to see that in Debian? What if there were images

Re: Visualboy Advance question.

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Lewis Jardine wrote: snip Emulators work perfectly correctly without software to emulate. NO$GMB does the same thing with no image loaded that my gameboy does with no cartridge in the slot. It has 'no significant functionality'. Pacifist (I assume) does the same thing with no BIOS that a

Re: Visualboy Advance question.

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Evan Prodromou wrote: On Tue, 2004-06-22 at 19:02, Josh Triplett wrote: While I agree that it is not necessarily required that a Free package Depend on some piece of Free data for it to operate on, I do believe that if there is _no_ Free data for the package to run with, and that data is

Re: Bug#258104: libphp-jpgraph: new uptream version (1.13)

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Pierre HABOUZIT wrote: On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 10:57:57AM +0200, Christian BAYLE wrote: As far as I know QPL is considered an non DFSG compatible Restrictions, such as giving the author your changes if they ask, are not DFSG-free. found on debian-legal

Re: PROPOSED: the Dictator Test (was: Contractual requirements [was: request-tracker3: license shadiness])

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Zenaan Harkness wrote: snip Can we generalize and say something like any license which attempts to restrict beyond the lowest common denominator of copyright laws that exist today? Or is the Autocrat Test simply a jurisdictional test? Neither. What I think it's about is precisely this

Re: DRAFT: debian-legal summary of the QPL

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Glenn Maynard wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 11:44:57PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote: Likewise, if the change author is on a desert island, I don't see how the change author can receive any requests. Via a message dropped from a passing airplane. Duh! Three people have already replied

Re: Contracts and licenses

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: Humberto Massa [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyway, it depends on your jurisdiction. Here in Brasil, *every* software license is a contract, and is ruled, aside from the dispositions in Copyright Law (9.610/98) and Computer Programs Law

Re: Contracts and licenses

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: snip * A consideration: if the license document specifies consideration to the licensor, the license can't be free. I think this is the crux of the matter. But -just thinking aloud here- what if the consideration is you promise to

Re: Contracts and licenses

2004-07-12 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Lex Spoon wrote: * A consideration: if the license document specifies consideration to the licensor, the license can't be free. Certainly it's a problem if the consideration is sending $1000 to the author. However, DFSG1 says merely that you cannot charge a royalty or fee; it does not

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