Re: A possible GFDL comporomise: a proposal
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Nathanael Nerode wrote: Fedor Zuev wrote: First, try to answer to several simply questions. FYI, these are *my* answers, not necessarily everyone's answers. 0) Is printed Emacs Manual in bookstore a software or hardware? The lump of paper and ink is hardware. Including the various splotchesof ink resulting from printing press problems. But the 'text of the manual',that abstract entity embodied in the manual, is software. 1) Is Emacs Manual recorded on CD-Audio a software or hardware? The bits are software, the lump of plastic is hardware. 2) Is Debian/main printed as book a software or hardware? The hunk of paper is hardware, the 'text' in it is software. 3) Why? What differs from 0,1? Nothing. 4) Is Debian/main printed into punch-cards a software or hardware? The physical punch cards are hardware, the data on them is software. 5) Why? What differs from 0,1,2? Nothing. 6) Is Debian/main written on CD-ROM a software or hardware? The lump of plastic is hardware. The data on it is software. 7) Why? What differs from 0, 1,2,4? Nothing. 8)Is Debian logo written on [cover of] the same CD-ROM software or hardware? Neither, really, but... The printed cover with its actual copy of the logo,possibly with some dirt, etc., is hardware. The logo as a copyrightable entity embodied on the cover is software. BTW, there you mentioned the important factor: copyright status. But you completely abandoned this subject below. 9) Why? What differs from 0, 1, 2, 4, 6? Nothing. 10) Is Debian installation, hardcoded into embedded system software or hardware? This is usually called firmware. Again, the lump of silicon and metalcircuits is hardware, and the data hardcoded into it is software. 11) Why? What differs from 0, 1, 2, 4, 6, 8? Nothing. To answer a question you didn't ask, the *design spec* for a piece of hardware is software. The hardware itself isn't.Get the picture? Yes, this is a good question. But I have also another good questions. Especially for you (see below). This is the extremely useful definition of software I use.(Software is a more useful term for discrete/digital data than for continuous/analog data, because continuous/analog data can't be reproduced without data loss, making the software inseperable from the hardware to some degree.) So, according to your defintion software is synonym to digital information. Right? Song written on CDDA is a software, whereas the song written on a analog magnetic tape (exactly the same object from the copyright|licensing perspective) is not a software. Right? Speech, transmissed over digital telephone line is a software, whereas speech, transmissed over analog telephone line (you even do not know, which is the case) is not software. Right? Picture, printed by good printer is a software, whereas picture printed by broken printer (too many ink) is not software. Right? Do you really believe that DFSG was designed to make such subtle (and strange) differences?
Re: A possible GFDL comporomise: a proposal
On 2003-09-29, Fedor Zuev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Nathanael Nerode wrote: Fedor Zuev wrote: First, try to answer to several simply questions. FYI, these are *my* answers, not necessarily everyone's answers. 0) Is printed Emacs Manual in bookstore a software or hardware? The lump of paper and ink is hardware. Including the various splotchesof ink resulting from printing press problems. But the 'text of the manual',that abstract entity embodied in the manual, is software. 1) Is Emacs Manual recorded on CD-Audio a software or hardware? The bits are software, the lump of plastic is hardware. ... 8)Is Debian logo written on [cover of] the same CD-ROM software or hardware? Neither, really, but... The printed cover with its actual copy of the logo,possibly with some dirt, etc., is hardware. The logo as a copyrightable entity embodied on the cover is software. ... Song written on CDDA is a software, whereas the song written on a analog magnetic tape (exactly the same object from the copyright|licensing perspective) is not a software. Right? I'm not sure how you're deriving this distinction between information-stored-digitally and information-stored-analogly from Nathanael Nerode's answers: to me, his answers seem consistent with the interpretation that all information is software, independent of its physical manifestation. Perhaps you're mistaking his answers for those in another post? Peace, Dylan
Re: A possible GFDL comporomise: a proposal
Fedor Zuev [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, according to your defintion software is synonym to digital information. Right? Wrong. Software is synonymous with information. Song written on CDDA is a software, whereas the song written on a analog magnetic tape (exactly the same object from the copyright|licensing perspective) is not a software. Right? Wrong. Speech, transmissed over digital telephone line is a software, whereas speech, transmissed over analog telephone line (you even do not know, which is the case) is not software. Right? Wrong. Picture, printed by good printer is a software, whereas picture printed by broken printer (too many ink) is not software. Right? Wrong. Thomas
Re: A possible GFDL comporomise: a proposal
Fedor Zuev wrote: First, try to answer to several simply questions. FYI, these are *my* answers, not necessarily everyone's answers. 0) Is printed Emacs Manual in bookstore a software or hardware? The lump of paper and ink is hardware. Including the various splotches of ink resulting from printing press problems. But the 'text of the manual', that abstract entity embodied in the manual, is software. 1) Is Emacs Manual recorded on CD-Audio a software or hardware? The bits are software, the lump of plastic is hardware. 2) Is Debian/main printed as book a software or hardware? The hunk of paper is hardware, the 'text' in it is software. 3) Why? What differs from 0,1? Nothing. 4) Is Debian/main printed into punch-cards a software or hardware? The physical punch cards are hardware, the data on them is software. 5) Why? What differs from 0,1,2? Nothing. 6) Is Debian/main written on CD-ROM a software or hardware? The lump of plastic is hardware. The data on it is software. 7) Why? What differs from 0, 1,2,4? Nothing. 8)Is Debian logo written on [cover of] the same CD-ROM software or hardware? Neither, really, but... The printed cover with its actual copy of the logo, possibly with some dirt, etc., is hardware. The logo as a copyrightable entity embodied on the cover is software. 9) Why? What differs from 0, 1, 2, 4, 6? Nothing. 10) Is Debian installation, hardcoded into embedded system software or hardware? This is usually called firmware. Again, the lump of silicon and metal circuits is hardware, and the data hardcoded into it is software. 11) Why? What differs from 0, 1, 2, 4, 6, 8? Nothing. To answer a question you didn't ask, the *design spec* for a piece of hardware is software. The hardware itself isn't. Get the picture? This is the extremely useful definition of software I use. (Software is a more useful term for discrete/digital data than for continuous/analog data, because continuous/analog data can't be reproduced without data loss, making the software inseperable from the hardware to some degree.) -- Nathanael Nerode neroden at gcc.gnu.org http://home.twcny.rr.com/nerode/neroden/fdl.html
