Re: License query for mrouted
> Christoph writes:
> > As I understand it, they permit distribution of devired works, but they
> > do not speak about REdestribution of the original. I think, they take
> > this as granted.
>
> They may take it for granted, but we can't. We can only do what they have
> given us permission to do.
> --
> John Hasler
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
> Dancing Horse Hill
> Elmwood, WI
> (Sent to debian-legal, Cc to package maintainer)
>
> I found this package in Incoming. I'm not sure if we can distribute
> it; clause 4 is a bit funny. Also, it seems to permit distribution of
> derived works BUT NOT verbatim copies ("nontransferable license"),
> which is weird.
>
>
>
Earlier, Richard Braakman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> had written;
> The mrouted program is covered by the following license. Use of the
> mrouted program represents acceptance of these terms and conditions.
>
> 1. STANFORD grants to LICENSEE a nonexclusive and nontransferable license
> to use, copy and modify the computer software ``mrouted'' (hereinafter
> called the ``Program''), upon the terms and conditions hereinafter set
> out and until Licensee discontinues use of the Licensed Program.
...
> 3. LICENSEE may copy the Program and may sublicense others to use object
> code copies of the Program or any derivative version of the Program.
> All copies must contain all copyright and other proprietary notices found
> in the Program as provided by STANFORD. Title to copyright to the
> Program remains with STANFORD.
>
> 4. LICENSEE may create derivative versions of the Program. LICENSEE
> hereby grants STANFORD a royalty-free license to use, copy, modify,
> distribute and sublicense any such derivative works. At the time
> LICENSEE provides a copy of a derivative version of the Program to a
> third party, LICENSEE shall provide STANFORD with one copy of the source
> code of the derivative version at no charge to STANFORD.
Paragraph 1 lets us use, copy and modify the Program, but it doesn't
let us distribute it. Paragraph 3 is what allows us to distribute the
program. So "nontransferable" means that our right to use, copy and
modify is not something we are allowed to transfer to someone else,
although we may, pursuant to paragraph 3, sublicense others to use
object code copies of the Program or derivative versions. Anyone who
gets the Program from us has a sublicense from us, not a direct
license with Stanford.
Unfortunately, paragraph 3 only lets us sublicense others to use
object code copies of the Program; it does not allow us to let others
modify, distribute, or copy the program. As I understand it, rights
not explicitly granted to a licensee are reserved by the grantor, so
people who get any version of the Program from Debian are only allowed to
use it, not to make their own derivative versions even if they were
to send the modifications to Stanford. As a practical matter, it seems
highly unlikely that Stanford is going to care whether someone got the
program from Debian or from someone else, so long as they comply with
the license as if they got it directly from Stanford, but that's not
what the license says.
As a further consequence of this two level scheme, Debian is allowed
to distribute the Program at all only if we get the program directly
from Stanford (or from someone who got the program with a more liberal
license than this one). If we get the program from someone second
hand under this license then we are that person's sublicensee, granted
only the right to "use object code copies" of the Program or a
modified version, not to make further modifications or to distribute
it.
As someone else pointed out, paragraph 4 is a little odd. I think it's
ambiguous as to whether or not we are supposed to provide a copy of a
derivative version to Stanford each time we distribute it, even after
giving Stanford that identical source code. The fact that paragraph 4
explicitly says that the licensee shall provide "one" copy of the
source code would seem to indicate that it's not necessary to provide
an additional copy the next time that we distribute an identical
derivative version. Moreover, I think that any court would apply a
reasonableness standard here to say that we do not need to provide
multiple copies of the same thing since that would not serve the
purpose outlined in this license (see paragraph 2 of the license). [To
say that a court would rule x is to say that the law is x, so this is
also my opinion of the law on the matter.]
Now the interesting question here is whether this is, or should be,
free for the purposes of Debian's purposes. Let's assume for the
moment that the weird two level scheme were eliminated so anyone could
distribute and modify the program as if they had gotten it directly
from Stanford and that it were made clear that it was only necessary
to send a copy of the modified software to Stanford the first time you
distributed a new modified version. Would that be an onero
Re: License query for mrouted
Christoph writes: > If I make some modifications, they want to have a copy from me, but > not from all the users. I'm sure that is what they intended, but it isn't what they say in the license. Do you have this in writing from them? It's still postcardware. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
Re: License query for mrouted
Christoph writes: > As I understand it, they permit distribution of devired works, but they > do not speak about REdestribution of the original. I think, they take > this as granted. They may take it for granted, but we can't. We can only do what they have given us permission to do. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
Re: License query for mrouted
Richard Braakman writes:
> Also, it seems to permit distribution of derived works BUT NOT verbatim
> copies ("nontransferable license"), which is weird.
It certainly is weird.
And quotes:
> 1. STANFORD grants to LICENSEE a nonexclusive and nontransferable license
> to use, copy and modify the computer software ``mrouted'' (hereinafter
> called the ``Program''),...
I don't understand the point in declaring the license "nontransferable".
That only makes sense if you are selling licenses.
> ...upon the terms and conditions hereinafter set out and until Licensee
> discontinues use of the Licensed Program.
This would seem to say that you can only have a license if you are *using*
the program. Thus Debian would not be allowed to distribute mrouted unless
we installed the thing on our servers. Non-free.
> LICENSEE may copy the Program and may sublicense others to use object
> code copies of the Program or any derivative version of the Program.
So we would be allowed to distribute binaries built from unmodified or
unmodified source, but not the source itself. Non-free.
> At the time LICENSEE provides a copy of a derivative version of the
> Program to a third party, LICENSEE shall provide STANFORD with one copy
> of the source code of the derivative version at no charge to STANFORD.
This would appear to say that every single time someone downloads the .deb
from ftp.debian.org, we must send off another copy of the source to
Stanford. Non-free.
This not the most well drafted license I have seen. I doubt that it says
what Stanford meant it to say.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Re: License query for mrouted
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Richard Braakman writes:
> (Sent to debian-legal, Cc to package maintainer)
>
> I found this package in Incoming. I'm not sure if we can distribute
> it; clause 4 is a bit funny. Also, it seems to permit distribution of
> derived works BUT NOT verbatim copies ("nontransferable license"),
> which is weird.
>
As I understand it, they permit distribution of devired works, but
they do not speak about REdestribution of the original. I think, they
take this as granted.
Christoph
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Re: License query for mrouted
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho writes: > On Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 01:37:25PM +0100, Richard Braakman wrote: > > At the time > > LICENSEE provides a copy of a derivative version of the Program to a > > third party, LICENSEE shall provide STANFORD with one copy of the source > > code of the derivative version at no charge to STANFORD. > > This looks like a kind of postcardware. Are we really obligated to send > Stanford thousands of copies of the source? If yes, then we cannot > distribute the program. If I make some modifications, they want to have a copy from me, but not from all the users. Christoph -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.1, an Emacs/PGP interface Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNt/fjG4/9k35XC9tAQG6lwf8Cc/5TNcHL4gJi+OHPmmbV/60WYleqbpH cWGFQ9iuEeR+n5hJywF8U+GTzLpeGu383L7icNd84r/NhYXMICUzN2IAFarVDyDp qAT09AlMXk854lyXYH108ySF86NFKMY4t+CzQ+9B58/vAOuyqGpSWfcN7qCbZwa/ 3gHM6Ft+h5fTGNjlE9O6jMgi4ppggOBafqCYU99Qjzy/cTlyow1rsxAuwL+9fANm i4ykkbKkkPLjWVlMmmIx4Y+LDB9/PUJc1tvWYZ9VAGzmNpFD2Qifpbz/0B3Wcl+g Vr6h/8VgE5pPhRXInvYlEHxNf9ZLQGzA9BHpvbhdyRrDFPed64tPvw== =wwH8 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: License query for mrouted
On Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 01:37:25PM +0100, Richard Braakman wrote: > At the time > LICENSEE provides a copy of a derivative version of the Program to a > third party, LICENSEE shall provide STANFORD with one copy of the source > code of the derivative version at no charge to STANFORD. This looks like a kind of postcardware. Are we really obligated to send Stanford thousands of copies of the source? If yes, then we cannot distribute the program. -- Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho A7 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ** http://www.iki.fi/gaia/> ** The FAQ is your friend. Trust the FAQ.
License query for mrouted
(Sent to debian-legal, Cc to package maintainer)
I found this package in Incoming. I'm not sure if we can distribute
it; clause 4 is a bit funny. Also, it seems to permit distribution of
derived works BUT NOT verbatim copies ("nontransferable license"),
which is weird.
The mrouted program is covered by the following license. Use of the
mrouted program represents acceptance of these terms and conditions.
1. STANFORD grants to LICENSEE a nonexclusive and nontransferable license
to use, copy and modify the computer software ``mrouted'' (hereinafter
called the ``Program''), upon the terms and conditions hereinafter set
out and until Licensee discontinues use of the Licensed Program.
2. LICENSEE acknowledges that the Program is a research tool still in
the development state, that it is being supplied ``as is,'' without any
accompanying services from STANFORD, and that this license is entered
into in order to encourage scientific collaboration aimed at further
development and application of the Program.
3. LICENSEE may copy the Program and may sublicense others to use object
code copies of the Program or any derivative version of the Program.
All copies must contain all copyright and other proprietary notices found
in the Program as provided by STANFORD. Title to copyright to the
Program remains with STANFORD.
4. LICENSEE may create derivative versions of the Program. LICENSEE
hereby grants STANFORD a royalty-free license to use, copy, modify,
distribute and sublicense any such derivative works. At the time
LICENSEE provides a copy of a derivative version of the Program to a
third party, LICENSEE shall provide STANFORD with one copy of the source
code of the derivative version at no charge to STANFORD.
5. STANFORD MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED.
By way of example, but not limitation, STANFORD MAKES NO REPRESENTATION
OR WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR
THAT THE USE OF THE LICENSED PROGRAM WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY PATENTS,
COPYRIGHTS, TRADEMARKS OR OTHER RIGHTS. STANFORD shall not be held liable
for any liability nor for any direct, indirect or consequential damages
with respect to any claim by LICENSEE or any third party on account of or
arising from this Agreement or use of the Program.
6. This agreement shall be construed, interpreted and applied in
accordance with the State of California and any legal action arising
out of this Agreement or use of the Program shall be filed in a court
in the State of California.
7. Nothing in this Agreement shall be construed as conferring rights to
use in advertising, publicity or otherwise any trademark or the name
of ``Stanford''.
The mrouted program is COPYRIGHT 1989 by The Board of Trustees of
Leland Stanford Junior University.
