Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
Hello, Le jeudi 13 novembre 2014 à 01:07:52, Christian Kastner a écrit : On 2014-11-13 12:43, Stéphane Aulery wrote: I'm sorry my English is poor and I can hardly do better. I wanted to summarize the main ideas of the second paragraph on page [1] which I find very good. The maintainer should know the first glance by reading the description if it can offer the bug without having to read another page. Another formulation: entry-point This bug has a known solution but the maintainer thinks it is an ideal task for new contributors who wish to get involved in Debian, or who wish to improve their skills. This gateway is a complement more accessible to mentors.debian.net. The maintainer is committed to providing assistance to new contributors and been able to upload an updated package in a timely manner. Bugs of any difficulty can be offered. I like this version the much! Don has already changed with yours. We do not say what you wanted in the end. We also need to add the tag newcomer to https://www.debian.org/Bugs/server-control#tag Regards, -- Stéphane Aulery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115113355.ga7...@free.fr
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 03:54:05PM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: Excellent; thanks. I'm going to make these gender-neutral, and then I'll commit them. This is the last chance for someone to object to entry-point as the tag name. If I hear no objections, I'll put this in place on Friday, around 18:00 UTC. I'm fine with entry-point. However, about its description: On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 07:42:33PM +0100, Stéphane Aulery wrote: entry-point The maintainer can easily solve this bug by himself, but he wants to take it to new contributors who wish to get involved in Debian. Bugs of any difficulty can be offered in order to attract and increase skill. I don't think we should include the initial part about maintainer can easily solve..., as it does seems a bit patronizing (that's easy for me, but I won't do it because...). My take: just include the part about being a good entry point (hence the name) for new contributors and scrap the rest. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o Former Debian Project Leader . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o . « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club » signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
On 2014-11-13 09:42, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 07:42:33PM +0100, Stéphane Aulery wrote: entry-point The maintainer can easily solve this bug by himself, but he wants to take it to new contributors who wish to get involved in Debian. Bugs of any difficulty can be offered in order to attract and increase skill. I don't think we should include the initial part about maintainer can easily solve..., as it does seems a bit patronizing (that's easy for me, but I won't do it because...). My take: just include the part about being a good entry point (hence the name) for new contributors and scrap the rest. Perhaps the choice of words could be improved, but I always understood the easy part as this issue has a more or less clear solution (and it's just a question of who will put resources into it), as opposed to an RFH bug, for which a solution is beyond the capabilities of the maintainer. Mentees might find this distinction helpful -- tasks can be less intimidating when a correct solution is known. What do you think of the following? entry-point -The maintainer can easily solve this bug by himself, but he -wants to take it to new contributors who wish to get involved -in Debian. Bugs of any difficulty can be offered in order to -attract and increase skill. +This bug has a known solution but the maintainer requests +someone else implement it. This is an ideal task for new +contributors who wish to get involved in Debian, or who +wish to improve their skills. The maintainer is committed to providing assistance to new contributors. This gateway is a complement more accessible to mentors.debian.net. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1624917a9dcf44b56d5641b80c2bc...@kvr.at
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
Le jeudi 13 novembre 2014 à 11:51:51, Christian Kastner a écrit : On 2014-11-13 09:42, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: I don't think we should include the initial part about maintainer can easily solve..., as it does seems a bit patronizing (that's easy for me, but I won't do it because...). My take: just include the part about being a good entry point (hence the name) for new contributors and scrap the rest. Perhaps the choice of words could be improved, but I always understood the easy part as this issue has a more or less clear solution (and it's just a question of who will put resources into it), as opposed to an RFH bug, for which a solution is beyond the capabilities of the maintainer. Mentees might find this distinction helpful -- tasks can be less intimidating when a correct solution is known. What do you think of the following? I'm sorry my English is poor and I can hardly do better. I wanted to summarize the main ideas of the second paragraph on page [1] which I find very good. The maintainer should know the first glance by reading the description if it can offer the bug without having to read another page. Another formulation: entry-point This bug has a known solution but the maintainer thinks it is an ideal task for new contributors who wish to get involved in Debian, or who wish to improve their skills. This gateway is a complement more accessible to mentors.debian.net. The maintainer is committed to providing assistance to new contributors and been able to upload an updated package in a timely manner. Bugs of any difficulty can be offered. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/GiftTag -- Stéphane Aulery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141113114310.ga2...@free.fr
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
On 2014-11-13 12:43, Stéphane Aulery wrote: I'm sorry my English is poor and I can hardly do better. I wanted to summarize the main ideas of the second paragraph on page [1] which I find very good. The maintainer should know the first glance by reading the description if it can offer the bug without having to read another page. Another formulation: entry-point This bug has a known solution but the maintainer thinks it is an ideal task for new contributors who wish to get involved in Debian, or who wish to improve their skills. This gateway is a complement more accessible to mentors.debian.net. The maintainer is committed to providing assistance to new contributors and been able to upload an updated package in a timely manner. Bugs of any difficulty can be offered. I like this version the much! [1] https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/GiftTag -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/c0ecb2a52d989b5b5c453de36e3fa...@kvr.at
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
Le mercredi 12 novembre 2014 à 03:54:05, Don Armstrong a écrit : This is the last chance for someone to object to entry-point as the tag name. If I hear no objections, I'll put this in place on Friday, around 18:00 UTC. I am looking for an idea in a nutshell. I'm not English so it's hard for me: apprenticeship gateway initiation mentoring mentee-task traineeship participate field-taking practice newcomers stepping launching-pad Better ideas? -- Stéphane Aulery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141113135932.ga2...@free.fr
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, Don Armstrong wrote: The existing help tag is really for bugs for which the maintainer needs or wants help; these are basically a superset of entry-point, and bugs which are more difficult than it would be reasonable for a new contributor to help. I suppose it would be reasonable for bugs which are tagged entry-point to also be tagged help, but I'm not going to mandate that. In fact, I believe they should be mostly disjoint. As a maintainer, I welcome help on all bugs. When I tag a bug help it's because I believe that I don't have the skills to fix it by myself and that external help is really needed to make some progress. On the contrary, a bug tagged entry-point is a bug that I can perfectly fix by myself but that I don't handle immediately because I believe that it would be a good task for a new contributor to jump in (and possibly also because I have other more pressing things to do). So we should possibly update the descriptions of the tags accordingly. What do you think? Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer Support Debian LTS: http://www.freexian.com/services/debian-lts.html Learn to master Debian: http://debian-handbook.info/get/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141112101223.gi27...@home.ouaza.com
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
Le mardi 11 novembre 2014 à 03:54:50, Don Armstrong a écrit : On Wed, 12 Nov 2014, Stéphane Aulery wrote: Le mardi 11 novembre 2014 à 03:07:31, Don Armstrong a écrit : The existing help tag is really for bugs for which the maintainer needs or wants help; these are basically a superset of entry-point, and bugs which are more difficult than it would be reasonable for a new contributor to help. Thanks. It will be good to mention in the documentation of BTS. Please suggest a clearer wording if it's not clear enough. Here is a proposal: entry-point The maintainer can easily solve this bug by himself, but he wants to take it to new contributors who wish to get involved in Debian. Bugs of any difficulty can be offered in order to attract and increase skill. The maintainer is committed to providing assistance to new contributors. This gateway is a complement more accessible to mentors.debian.net. help The maintainer is requesting help with dealing with this bug. Either he does not have the skills and wishes collaboration, or is overloaded and wants to delegate to someone who will treat alone. For newcomers see entry-point. -- Stéphane Aulery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141112184233.ga5...@free.fr
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014, Stéphane Aulery wrote: Le mardi 11 novembre 2014 à 03:54:50, Don Armstrong a écrit : On Wed, 12 Nov 2014, Stéphane Aulery wrote: Le mardi 11 novembre 2014 à 03:07:31, Don Armstrong a écrit : The existing help tag is really for bugs for which the maintainer needs or wants help; these are basically a superset of entry-point, and bugs which are more difficult than it would be reasonable for a new contributor to help. Thanks. It will be good to mention in the documentation of BTS. Please suggest a clearer wording if it's not clear enough. Here is a proposal: Excellent; thanks. I'm going to make these gender-neutral, and then I'll commit them. This is the last chance for someone to object to entry-point as the tag name. If I hear no objections, I'll put this in place on Friday, around 18:00 UTC. -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com Who is thinking this? I am. -- Greg Egan _Diaspora_ p38 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141112235405.ga32...@teltox.donarmstrong.com
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
Raphael Hertzog hert...@debian.org writes: In fact, I believe they should be mostly disjoint. As a maintainer, I welcome help on all bugs. When I tag a bug help it's because I believe that I don't have the skills to fix it by myself and that external help is really needed to make some progress. +1. I use help as a sort of variant of wontfix. It means that I'm not opposed to a fix for that bug, but I'm not going to work on it, either because I don't have the time or I don't have the necessary skills. Therefore, unless someone else works on it, it's not going to get fixed. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/878ujflkv6@hope.eyrie.org
Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: I am totally in favor of turning it into a real tag. There has been discussions about renaming the tag (see thread starting at https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/09/msg00096.html ; my personal preference is entry-point (https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/09/msg00108.html) for the geeky factor). We should rename it at the same time. I think entry-point encapsulates the idea, and isn't condescending. Unless someone has a serious objection to it, lets just roll with that. On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: As the person responsible for adding +gift support to devscripts back in the days, I've always regretted not having pushed for a full-fledged BTS tag at the time. We should definitely do that, but also think at backward compatibility. For instance, how to guarantee that existing queries like [1] above do not break? This would be a bit of a hack, but I think I can just redirect that one URL to the pkgreport.cgi?tag=entry-point. People who still needed to just see the gift tags could use something like pkgreport.cgi?tag=gift;tag=faketag;user=debian...@lists.debian.org We can also just make sure that bugs which have the gift tag get the entry-point tag too. [And we should probably do the opposite as well.] This would be a bit hacky, but it's totally possible to do in a pretty quick cronjob until at least a release cycle with the new interface. -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com He was wrong. Nature abhors dimensional abnormalities, and seals them neatly away so that they don't upset people. Nature, in fact, abhors a lot of things, including vacuums, ships called the Marie Celeste, and the chuck keys for electric drills. -- Terry Pratchet _Pyramids_ p166 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2014224526.gx4...@rzlab.ucr.edu
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
Le mardi 11 novembre 2014 à 02:45:26, Don Armstrong a écrit : On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: I am totally in favor of turning it into a real tag. There has been discussions about renaming the tag (see thread starting at https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/09/msg00096.html ; my personal preference is entry-point (https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/09/msg00108.html) for the geeky factor). We should rename it at the same time. I think entry-point encapsulates the idea, and isn't condescending. Unless someone has a serious objection to it, lets just roll with that. And existing help tag? What is it now? -- Stéphane Aulery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2014225600.ga18...@free.fr
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, Stéphane Aulery wrote: Le mardi 11 novembre 2014 à 02:45:26, Don Armstrong a écrit : On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: I am totally in favor of turning it into a real tag. There has been discussions about renaming the tag (see thread starting at https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/09/msg00096.html ; my personal preference is entry-point (https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/09/msg00108.html) for the geeky factor). We should rename it at the same time. I think entry-point encapsulates the idea, and isn't condescending. Unless someone has a serious objection to it, lets just roll with that. And existing help tag? What is it now? The existing help tag is really for bugs for which the maintainer needs or wants help; these are basically a superset of entry-point, and bugs which are more difficult than it would be reasonable for a new contributor to help. I suppose it would be reasonable for bugs which are tagged entry-point to also be tagged help, but I'm not going to mandate that. -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com The game of science is, in principle, without end. He who decides one day that scientific statements do not call for any further test, and that they can be regarded as finally verified, retires from the game. -- Sir Karl Popper _The Logic of Scientific Discovery_ §11 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2014230729.gy4...@rzlab.ucr.edu
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
Le mardi 11 novembre 2014 à 03:07:31, Don Armstrong a écrit : The existing help tag is really for bugs for which the maintainer needs or wants help; these are basically a superset of entry-point, and bugs which are more difficult than it would be reasonable for a new contributor to help. Thanks. It will be good to mention in the documentation of BTS. -- Stéphane Aulery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2014232258.ga18...@free.fr
Re: Making entry-point nee gift a real BTS tag [Re: Facilitating contributions by newcomers]
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014, Stéphane Aulery wrote: Le mardi 11 novembre 2014 à 03:07:31, Don Armstrong a écrit : The existing help tag is really for bugs for which the maintainer needs or wants help; these are basically a superset of entry-point, and bugs which are more difficult than it would be reasonable for a new contributor to help. Thanks. It will be good to mention in the documentation of BTS. The current documentation of help[1] is: help The maintainer is requesting help with dealing with this bug. Please suggest a clearer wording if it's not clear enough. 1: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer#tags -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com UF: What's your favorite coffee blend? PD: Dark Crude with heavy water. You are understandink? If geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is just not thick. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2014235449.gz4...@rzlab.ucr.edu
