List of Policy delegates

2009-04-30 Thread Adeodato Simó
+ Colin Watson (Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:51:55 +0100):

Hey,

 I've committed a fix to our git repository, of course

Oh, I see RT#1138 now, though I can't seem to find a mail mentioning
these delegations/incorporations, but that could just be me not keeping
up with may mail.

Anyway, I wrote to ask if somebody could please submit a bug against
www.debian.org providing a list of the list of current Policy delegates,
so that http://www.debian.org/intro/organization can be updated.

Thanks!

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Re: does /var/games have to be deleted on purge? (if it's empty..)

2009-04-08 Thread Adeodato Simó
+ Russ Allbery (Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:33:41 -0700):

 I don't see much real benefit in going out of our way to remove /var/games
 and it looks like it would be a bit annoying (at the least, require adding
 purge code to all games that put files in /var/games that would usually
 never be triggered).  My inclination would be to say that this behavior is
 fine and perhaps we should officially bless it somewhere.

I agree with this. We’re trying to move away (eg. with triggers) from
stuff that has to be propagated to every maintainer scripts, and I
really don’t see how removing an empty /var/games is such a big benefit
that would make it worth our time to enforce rmdir’s everywhere.

Additionally, what happens if package A and B both ship an empty
/var/games (they both write their score files directly there, rather
than a subdirectory), get both installed, then B gets purged and its
postinst removes /var/games, and then A runs and tries to write to
/var/games a score file, but the directory does no longer exist nor has
the game write permission to create it. Is there or is there going to be
a policy mandating that packages should not ship /var/games without
shipping /var/games/name?

Thanks,

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Bug#522776: debian-policy: mandate existence of a standardised UTF-8 locale

2009-04-07 Thread Adeodato Simó
+ Thorsten Glaser (Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:54:59 +):

 Except the ton which sets LC_ALL=C to get sane (parsable,
 dependable, historically compatible) output.

 These would then unset all other LC_* and LANG and LANGUAGE,
 and only set LC_CTYPE to C.UTF-8 to get old behaviour but
 with UTF-8 (and mbrtowc and iswctype and and and) available.

Isn’t setting LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 going to be about the same and less work?
I’m genuinely interested if that would behave any different to what you
said (unsetting all, setting LC_CTYPE).

Cheers,

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Bug#522776: debian-policy: mandate existence of a standardised UTF-8 locale

2009-04-07 Thread Adeodato Simó
+ Steve Langasek (Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:09:17 -0700):

 On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 05:33:35PM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
   If you need a specific locale (as seems from mksh, not
   sure if it is a bug in that program), you need to set it.

  You can only set a locale on a glibc-based system if it’s
  installed beforehand, which root needs to do.

 You can build-depend on the locales package and generate the locales you
 want locally, using LOCPATH to reference them.  There's no need for Debian
 to guarantee the presence of a particular locale ahead of time -

It is my impression that more packages than mksh could use an UTF-8
locale at build time (I’m afraid I don’t have pointers, but I’m sure
I’ve come across at least a couple).

Wouldn’t it be just better to change Debian’s default to make an UTF-8
locale available by default, rather than to force all those packages to
play tricks with LOCPATH?

I would go as far as suggesting that some package like libc6 itself
ships the locale, both as a way of ensuring it’ll always be there, and
of not forcing the locales package on every system (not sure if this was
part of your concerns).

Unfortunately, and from my limited knowledge and recent poking of this,
it seems the supported locales for a running system are kept in a single
file (/usr/lib/locale/locale-archive), so I’m unsure how the above could
work out, if at all.

 particularly one that isn't actually useful to end users, as C.UTF-8 would
 be.

Is that point really important? It is useful for building some packages,
plus I’m sure we have pedant enough users that would prefer C.UTF-8 over
en_US.UTF-8. :-P

Finally, this stuff that Roger proposes about making “C” be UTF-8, and
create some C.ASCII for people needing that, sounds shocking at the same
time as appealing.

Cheers,

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Bug#519941: 10.2 Libraries recommends use of /etc/ld.so.conf instead of /etc/ld.so.conf.d

2009-03-16 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Steve Langasek [Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:52:10 -0700]:

 On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 11:40:36AM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
  Debian policy 10.2 Libraries says:

  | Packages containing shared libraries that may be linked to by other
  | packages' binaries, but which for some compelling reason can not be
  | installed in /usr/lib directory, may install the shared library files
  | in subdirectories of the /usr/lib directory, in which case they should
  | arrange to add that directory in /etc/ld.so.conf in the package's
  | post-installation script, and remove it in the package's post-removal
  | script.

  I believe this should be changed to dropping a file into
  /etc/ld.so.conf.d instead. Giving a policy for the filename might be a
  good idea too so there won't be conflicts. How about
  /etc/ld.so.conf/package.conf?

 This recommendation needs to be elminated entirely.  It is *not* ok for
 packages that provide libraries to stick extra linker paths in the global
 configuration, whether by modifying ld.so.conf or by adding to
 /etc/ld.so.conf.d.  Either the libraries provided by the packages are meant
 to be public, in which case they should be installed to the standard library
 path instead of needlessly adding another directory that's going to be
 globally visible anyway; or they should not, and the cooperating packages
 should use rpath instead.

 Use of rpath should still be discouraged, but if someone is bound and
 determined to violate the FHS with their library paths in order to have
 private libraries, they should make them really private with rpath instead
 of using this compromise solution that takes the worst of each approach.

+1

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Bug#446712: [PATCH] Allow comments in debian/control (bug#446712)

2009-03-01 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Russ Allbery [Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:07:36 -0800]:

 It occurred to me to check behavior with multiline fields as well.  Here's
 a slightly modified version documenting that.  Does this still look good
 to you?  (And also requesting seconds from others.)

 --- a/policy.sgml
 +++ b/policy.sgml
 @@ -2450,6 +2450,14 @@ Package: libc6
   See ref id=substvars for details.
 /p

 +   p
 + In addition to the control file syntax described qref
 + id=controlsyntaxabove/qref, this file may also contain
 + comment lines starting with tt#/tt.  All such lines are
 + ignored, even in the middle of continuation lines for a
 + multiline field, and do not end a multiline field.
 +   /p
 +
/sect

Seconded, with or without:

 + comment lines starting with tt#/tt
preceded by no whitespace.

Or some wording to that effect. The rationale is that it's very common
for files that accept #-style comments to accept them if # is preceded
by whitespace, but this is not the case in control files.

Cheers,

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Bug#473439: pick consistent terminology for category/component/area

2009-01-25 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Russ Allbery [Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:37:37 -0800]:

  I think Policy should not attempt to make up its own terminology here,
  so I'd like to change it to match either dak or the Social Contract.
  After thinking about it for a bit, I favor going to the terminology of
  the Social Contract with a minor modification (distribution areas
  instead of just areas) in part because of Ian's point and in part
  because I think it's meaningful to suppose that component refers to a
  technical capability of dak whereas distribution area refers to a
  concept within Debian as a project.

 The above was written in July of last year.  The only reaction that I got
 to this proposal is a comment from Giacomo that didn't object but
 suggested standardizing more of the terminology while we're at it.  But I
 don't think there's been much progress on that front.

 As mentioned, I'm not sure we need to match the terminology in dak as long
 as we're not confusing about it.  dak is referring to technical
 capabilities which are used to implement certain features.  I still think
 distribution area is a good name for this, better than categories.

 However, there doesn't appear to be any consensus on this right now.  So
 this is a ping to see if we do have consensus and people just haven't
 said, or if we don't.  If we don't have consensus, my inclination is to
 close this bug and continue using categories, since I don't think anything
 else uses category in a confusing way.  I don't want to just leave the bug
 open; it doesn't seem likely that anything fundamental is going to change
 about this bug report in the future.

Although I slightly favour component over area, I think your
reasoning above is sound, and I'll happily take distribution area
over category, particularly if the term component is mentioned
in a footnote, as your patch does.

Thanks,

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Re: Debian version numbers and strcmp()

2009-01-23 Thread Adeodato Simó
Thanks everybody for their responses. I'll learn to live with this
(small) unhappiness.

Cheers,

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Debian version numbers and strcmp()

2009-01-22 Thread Adeodato Simó
Hello,

I'd like to hear from members of this list what they think about the
following issue: I just noticed that to determine whether two Debian
versions are equal, one can't use strcmp() or similar, and must
implement the full comparison algorithm. For example, 0.9 and 0.09 are
the same version according to Policy.

I'm tempted to say this is rather unfortunate: I always believed our
version numbers to be comparable for *equality* using standard tools,
and that the Policy algorithm was there just to sort different version
strings. I think this is a reasonable expectation, too. (I realize
Policy talks about comparison.)

Is there a reason for it to be this way? Is there a reason that would
advise against changing it?

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- I don't love you that much.
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Bug#509935: decide whether Uploaders is parsed per RFC 5322

2009-01-19 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Russ Allbery [Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:10:55 -0800]:

 Bill Allombert bill.allomb...@math.u-bordeaux1.fr writes:

  While I can only agree on the technical ground of this proposal, I have
  quite a number of scripts (including popcon) that depend on the ability
  to extract the maintainer name from the Maintainer/Uploaders field. I
  suspect others developers and debian-qa might have others.

  Adding quotes around the maintainer name break the interface somehow.

  Using the full Maintainer field is often problematic because:
  1) we might not want to display the email address.
  2) we might want to merge entries from the same maintainer using
  different email adresses for different packages. (popcon go farther
  and check for different capitalization).

  So I would suggest we keep the format 'Name email' and forbid dot and
  commas. Developers that need them could use UTF-8 variants of those.

 Well, I really don't want to prohibit dots.  We allow dots now and they
 don't pose any problems, other than the note in Policy that you need to
 put quotes around the name if you use it in an e-mail To: field (which
 presumably all of our software already deals with).

I think dots should be allowed, yes, and be allowed unquoted.

 Your point about not wanting to change software that parses the name is
 well-taken.  I think, though, that if we say that you may only put
 double-quotes around the name if there is a comma in the name and
 otherwise the quotes should be omitted, that would minimize the problem.
 Only a handful of existing maintainers would be affected (namely those
 maintainers who are having trouble right now), so updating software
 wouldn't be that urgent.

I think we should *consider* do without commas at all, if losing them is
something we could live with. I realize that would be annoying for
people that have a comma in their name, so I'm not right away saying we
should forbid them. But I really think we should consider it, because
even if commas have to be quoted, you've already lost the ability to
parse the Uploaders field with split /\s*,\s*/, which I think would be a
loss, since that works for all other fields.

(Oh, and if we do without commas, we should do without quoting as well
IMHO.)

Just my 2¢,

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Re: directory for icons

2007-09-06 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Thomas Lange [Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:57:49 +0200]:

 Hi

 my package fai-server will include a command faimond-gui which needs
 some icons. Were should I put those icons?

 /usr/share/packagename/icons or
 /usr/share/commandname/icons or
 /usr/share/icons/packagename

 or a different location? I could not find anything in the policy,
 developers-reference or FHS concerning this.

I think that if it's a 32x32 .xpm file, the standard location is
/usr/share/pixmaps. You probably want that.

PNG icons get normally shipped somewhere under /usr/share/icons, but it
seems each desktop has its own policies about exactly where.

HTH,

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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

2006-07-30 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Hubert Chan [Mon, 31 Jul 2006 00:09:26 -0400]:

 Not having used the DELAYED queue before, is it possible for the
 maintainer to reject an upload without making their own upload?

 e.g. if the NMU is broken, but it will take me more than a week to test
 a proper fix.  Or if I decide that the package shouldn't be changed
 after all.  etc.

No, there is not. If the NMU is horribly broken, telling that to the
NMUer should get them into doing something (withdrawing it, or fixing
it). If not, and it's really important that the upload does not make
into the archive, you can e.g. just reupload the current version (e.g.
1.2-3 as 1.2-4, which is bigger than 1.2-3.1).

Cheers,

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Bug#378386: [PROPOSAL] Include the GFDL in the set shipped in /usr/share/common-licenses

2006-07-15 Thread Adeodato Simó
Package: debian-policy
Version: 3.7.2.1
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

Hello.

In [1], Joerg Jaspert initiated discussion about including more licenses
in the set of licenses shipped in /usr/share/common-licensed. As part of
the discussion I inquired in [2] about the possibility of adding the GFDL
to that set, given the number of packages that ship some contents under
this license.

Since at least one of the Policy editors, namely Manoj Srivastava,
agreed in [3] that the GFDL passes the criteria for inclusion, I'm now
transforming the mentioned informal discussion into a formal request.

  [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2006/06/msg00100.html
  [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2006/06/msg00109.html
  [3] http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2006/06/msg00206.html

Attached is a patch with the possible wording for the change.

Also, if somebody wonders as for why the change is not first commited in
the base-files package, and let Policy catch up on reality later: as per
/usr/share/doc/base-files/FAQ, the base-files has delegated that decision
to the Policy editors.

I will submit a bug against base-files after an updated debian-policy is
uploaded, or this bug marked by pending by one of the editors.

Thanks!

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We learned that the Linux load average rolls over at 1024. And we
actually found this out empirically.
-- H. Peter Anvin from kernel.org
--- ./policy.sgml~  2006-07-16 00:14:47.0 +0200
+++ ./policy.sgml   2006-07-16 00:17:56.0 +0200
@@ -8618,8 +8618,8 @@
 
p
  Packages distributed under the UCB BSD license, the Artistic
- license, the GNU GPL, and the GNU LGPL should refer to the
- corresponding files
+ license, the GNU GPL, and the GNU LGPL, or ship documentation
+ under the GFDL, should refer to the corresponding files
  underfile/usr/share/common-licenses/file,footnote
 p
   For example, 
@@ -8627,6 +8627,7 @@
   file/usr/share/common-licenses/BSD/file,
   file/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL/file,
   file/usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL/file,
+  file/usr/share/common-licenses/GFDL/file,
   file/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2/file, and
   file/usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL-2.1/file, and so on.
 /p


Re: Including more licenses in 12.5

2006-06-19 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Manoj Srivastava [Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:59:23 -0500]:

I'll give the numbers on my system so as to affirm that the proportions
are quite similar:

 __ grep-status -s Source '.' | sort -u | wc -l
1149
442
 __ find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright | wc -l
3615
1448
 __ find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright | \
  xargs egrep -l 'GNU.+General' |
915
2154
 __ find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright | \
  xargs egrep -l Artistic | wc -l
 504
177
 __ find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright | \
  xargs egrep -l 'GNU.+Lesser' | wc -l
 252
181
 __ find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright | \
  xargs egrep -l 'GNU.+Library' | wc -l
 174
117
 __ find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright | \
  xargs egrep -l 'Berkeley' | wc -l
  82
46
 __ find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright | \
  xargs egrep -l 'Python.+Software' | wc -l
17
  19
 __ find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright | \
  xargs egrep -l 'Zope' | wc -l
  15
13

And now, I will give an extra command:

% find /usr/share/doc -type f -name copyright |  \
  xargs egrep -l 'GNU.+Documentation' | wc -l
168

(On my laptop this number is 268.)

This is because one and each of the binary packages coming from kde.org
(of which there are around 500) ships a copy of the GFDL. I would
certainly like to see this license shipped as a common license.

Cheers,

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outdated changelog timestamps (was Re: Date and Upsteam-URL fields)

2006-06-11 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Goswin von Brederlow [Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:49:50 +0200]:

 David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 10:04:48PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote:

 Sometimes, the changelog will tell you the package was last changed 3
 month ago while actually it was changed yesterday and build and uploaded
 today. This can lead you to go on a wild-goose chase if you do not know
 about the problem.

[snip]

 Sure but adding entries to the changelog does not magically update the
 date.

  Then I suggest you start using dch.

 Or an editor mode/plugin/whatever that updates the time on save in
 changelogs. Very usefull.

And hateful (IMHO) when this results in every commit you do in your
debian packaging in changes in the timestamp of the changelog (and for
co-maintained packages, the name as well).

I've thought about this several times, and I think what'd make me happy
would be, instead of this dist=UNRELEASED stuff to mark work in progress
in VCS, something like:

  package (1.1) unstable; urgency=low

[ Joe Random ]
* Foo.

  -- UNRELEASED

And then, dch -r would be run by the person uploading, placing their
name and current timestamp in the final changelog, optionally removing
the [Joe Random] bit iff there is no other name tag, and Joe Random is
the one uploading.

Pity that dpkg-parsechangelog would choke on that, and also, I haven't
heard anybody express discontent about this, so maybe I'm too picky,
which makes me think that everybody is happy with using dist=UNRELEASED
and updating the timestamp with each commit (or not doing, and risk
forgetting to do so the last time before uploading).

Cheers,

(I guess followups should go to -devel and not -policy.)

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Re: Date and Upsteam-URL fields

2006-06-09 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Margarita Manterola [Thu, 08 Jun 2006 23:35:54 -0300]:

 So, in any case, I'd encourage you to patch dpkg to handle a new
 Homepage field, and submit the patch.  Once this is being used by a
 big number of packages, you might bring this up again.

 I'd really like to have the Homepage field in dpkg, although I doubt
 it would enter policy.

You can start without patching dpkg:

  Package: foo
  ...
  XB-Homepage: http://www.foo.org

That will make a Homepage field end in the binary control information,
and thus in the Packages file.

I've recently added a X-VCS-Bzr header to a couple packages of mine (in
the .dsc, though, not in the binaries, so it's only in the Sources file).

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Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] ttf-lang-* virtual packages

2006-03-20 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Adrian von Bidder [Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:37:15 +0100]:

 Yo over there on d-policy!

 Explanation: we're discussing how to better organize fonts in Debian.  One 
 idea is to use virtual packages to have fonts specify their supported 
 charsets and/or languages in a ttf-lang-* and/or ttf-charset-* virtual 
 package name space.  Amongst others, the ability of input methods to 
 recommend (or depend?) on proper fonts was mentioned as an advantage of 
 this.

 On Sunday 19 March 2006 09:06, Christian Perrier wrote:
  We request for the creation of virtual packages named
  ttf-lang-langname so that all font packages that are targeted for
  the supprot of a given language can add a Provides on the relevant
  virtual package(s).

  The only drawback here is that virtual packages creation is a process
  that is quite precisely defined in
  http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/virtual-package-names-list.tx
 t and we would need to request for the creation of *a lot* of virtual
  packages...:-)

 Well,  I guess we need input from the policy gods here ;-)

  Depending on your use case, formally requesting such virtual packages
  may not be needed. From Policy 3.6:

 All packages should use virtual package names where appropriate, and
 arrange to create new ones if necessary.  They should not use virtual
 package names (except privately, amongst a cooperating group of
 packages) unless they have been agreed upon and appear in the list of
 virtual package names.  (See also Section 7.4, `Virtual packages -
 `Provides'')

  So if the set of packages that would need to depend or recommend a
  ttf-lang-foo (or whatever name is finally picked) is reduced and
  somehow related, this can probably be considered cooperation.

  Just for reference, here are some statistics (generated with the
  attached script):

Number of virtual packages defined in Policy: 73
Number virtual packages provided in the archive (i386): 1611
Number of v.p. defined in Policy and provided in the archive: 62
Number of v.p. defined in Policy but not provided in the archive: 11
Number of v.p. NOT defined in Policy but provided in the archive: 1549

  HTH,

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Description: Bourne shell script


Re: Autobuilding and the build-arch target, again

2006-01-25 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Wouter Verhelst [Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:14:26 +0100]:

 Yes, but only if packages who declare build-depends-indep without having
 build-arch exist. Anyone feel like finding that out? ;-)
  
  Simon run a test through the archive prior to sending his mail, to
  find out.

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Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
A lie can go round the world before the truth has got its boots on.
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Bug#345619: debian-policy: 4.8. binary-{arch, indep} should fail with error code 2 - must

2006-01-05 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Kari Pahula [Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:37:46 +0200]:

 The reason why I got to think about this policy change was because I
 noticed that every arch's buildd was calling my build-indep and having
 doxygen generate 30 MBs of docs.  I was suggested on IRC to either
 generate the docs in binary-indep or ask for a policy change.

  Or move doxygen from Build-Depends to Build-Depends-Indep, and
  gracefully ignore its absence in the build target, if possible.

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
Y sobre todo, tienes mucho de gilipollas.
-- B.C.S. addressing P.G.i.Q in b8g



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Bug#329762: Relaxation and documentation of the -fPIC constraint

2005-10-03 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Loïc Minier [Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:59:05 +0200]:

  - permit building of static libraries with -fPIC (I don't think this
has any reason to be forbidden, does it?)

  Then, I'd say it should be mentioned that such libraries are expected
  (must?) be named like this: libfoo_pic.a.

  Cheers,

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Adeodato Simó
EM: asp16 [ykwim] alu.ua.es | PK: DA6AE621
 
Old men are fond of giving good advice to console themselves for their
inability to set a bad example.
-- La Rochefoucauld, Maxims



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Re: Procedure to add sub-policies

2005-07-27 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Manoj Srivastava [Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:10:26 -0500]:

 When the policy is deemed to be sufficiently mature, and when
  most packages in question are following it anyway, the new sub-policy
  can be submitted for inclusion into the main policy as a normal
  proposal (and usually these sub-policies can be integrated pretty
  rapidly, since the kinks have already been worked out

  And once it's been integrated, does it have to follow the procedures
  that apply to the main Policy document in order to be updated? Or does
  the control of this document remain more or less in the hands of those
  domain experts?

  At first sight, I think the second option makes more sense, since the
  changes are usually discussed and agreed upon in their own list.
  Though they could nevertheless be posted to -policy for a quick
  review.

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Adeodato Simó
EM: asp16 [ykwim] alu.ua.es | PK: DA6AE621
 
A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.


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Re: Bug#291026: debhelper uses which

2005-05-13 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Thomas Hood [Fri, 13 May 2005 23:54:52 +0200]:
 (Is there a way to browse debian-policy in CVS?)

  If I understood correctly, http://cvs.debian.org/?cvsroot=debian-policy
  may be what you want.

-- 
Adeodato Simó
EM: asp16 [ykwim] alu.ua.es | PK: DA6AE621
 
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.


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