Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-10 Thread Thomas Goirand
On 4/9/21 11:48 PM, Adrian Bunk wrote: > On Fri, Apr 09, 2021 at 02:11:11PM -0400, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote: >> [...] > > [...] > > cu > Adrian I was about to reply, but Adrian and Iustin more or less wrote what I would have (and I don't want to repeat in a different manner). On 4/10/21

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-10 Thread tomas
On Fri, Apr 09, 2021 at 03:14:56PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > We just had a week of this on debian-vote. Can we please not have another > week of it on debian-project? [...] Thanks, Russ. A couple of folks shouting their strong opinions and not listening isn't going anywhere constructive.

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Russ Allbery
We just had a week of this on debian-vote. Can we please not have another week of it on debian-project? It's one thing to debate larger issues about the project's stance on politics more generally, but at this point we're just rearguing the GR in progress, which has already gone through a

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Steve Langasek
On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 12:48:30AM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: > On Fri, Apr 09, 2021 at 02:11:11PM -0400, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote: > > Please, let's first agree that it's not (only) about his 'personal view on > > some > > topics'. Most people defending RMS on this list seem to have suddenly >

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Adrian Bunk
On Fri, Apr 09, 2021 at 02:11:11PM -0400, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote: >... > Please, let's first agree that it's not (only) about his 'personal view on > some > topics'. Most people defending RMS on this list seem to have suddenly > s/actions/views/g in their spell checker. So, just to put words

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Iustin Pop
On 2021-04-09 17:27:30, Thomas Goirand wrote: > The DFSG and social contract are there so that there's one thing we must > agree on. I haven't signed up for one side of the political spectrum. > Please respect this. > > Though as time passes, I'm seeing all of these lines increasingly > blurred.

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Iustin Pop
On 2021-04-09 14:11:11, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote: > On Fri, Apr 09, 2021 at 05:27:30PM +0200, Thomas Goirand wrote: > [...] > > I've joined Debian because of its technical excellence, and I'm staying > > because I believe in software freedom. I am trying to force myself to > > not have too many

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Tiago Bortoletto Vaz
Hi Thomas, I'm avoiding this debate, still I'm writing this one because (1) I know you listen :-) and (2) one of your statements has been repeated many times already and it kind of bothers me: On Fri, Apr 09, 2021 at 05:27:30PM +0200, Thomas Goirand wrote: [...] > It's been said that RMS current

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Russ Allbery
Thomas Goirand writes: > The point is: is there some restrictions on political views that the > Debian community/project would like to enforce? I could be wrong, but I think you're making an implicit assumption here that I would disagree with, namely that having the project issue a political

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Felix Lechner
Hi Thomas, On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 8:38 AM Thomas Goirand wrote: > > I'm sure I'm not the only person with this opinion. Please let me know > I'm not alone. You are not alone. I am intimidated by the crude treatment of fellow project members, and by the wanton disregard for the values of

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Jonas Smedegaard
Quoting Pierre-Elliott Bécue (2021-04-09 18:05:57) > Le vendredi 09 avril 2021 � 17:27:30+0200, Thomas Goirand a �crit�: > > The point is: is there some restrictions on political views that the > > Debian community/project would like to enforce? I've heard someone > > complaining that the Debian

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Roger Shimizu
Dear Thomas, On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 12:38 AM Thomas Goirand wrote: > > I'm sure I'm not the only person with this opinion. Please let me know > I'm not alone. I stand with your side. If you have a chance to come to Tokyo, let's have sake and umeshu together. Cheers, -- Roger Shimizu, GMT +9

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Pierre-Elliott Bécue
Le vendredi 09 avril 2021 à 17:27:30+0200, Thomas Goirand a écrit : > On 4/7/21 7:27 PM, Sam Hartman wrote: > > > > I wasn't thrilled with Steve's message; I sent him what I hope are some > > constructive comments privately. > > Bringing up nazis is rarely going to calm things down or promote >

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Gilles Filippini
Thomas Goirand a écrit le 09/04/2021 à 17:27 : Please let me know I'm not alone. You're not. Thx, _g.

Re: Debian should not engage in politics and stay neutral [was: This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other]

2021-04-09 Thread Thomas Goirand
On 4/7/21 7:27 PM, Sam Hartman wrote: > > I wasn't thrilled with Steve's message; I sent him what I hope are some > constructive comments privately. > Bringing up nazis is rarely going to calm things down or promote > constructive discussion. > And yes, he did that. > > But Adrian! You really

This is not the direction that will lead to hearing each other

2021-04-07 Thread Sam Hartman
I wasn't thrilled with Steve's message; I sent him what I hope are some constructive comments privately. Bringing up nazis is rarely going to calm things down or promote constructive discussion. And yes, he did that. But Adrian! You really doubled down on the tension. I appreciate that you