Re: debian image questions

[Pirate Praveen]

On ഞാ, ഓഗ 6 2023 at 08:42:21 രാവിലെ -04:00:00 
-04:00:00, Bill Miller  wrote:

Just like that;

When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything. 
I go to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install a new 
OS. it warns me that all my stuff will be lost if i change my OS. It 
will then ask me for my password. Once i put in my password, up comes 
a box reading "wait" and in about 20 to 90 minutes later the device 
resets and comes back on and the new OS is on, up and, running. No 
downloading, no cd, no usb drive. I dont need to know anything about 
tech or computers to go from one old OS to another new OS.


Many companies provide you Debian pre installed laptopns 
https://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed just like how you buy a 
macbook from apple store, you can order one from them.


In case of Windows and Mac, someone else installed it for you and there 
are people who will do that for you in case of Debian too.


We provide an option to directly install Debian on Windows 
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Loader


You don't need any CD or USB drive for this option, you can download 
the exe file, run it directly in Windows.



On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 11:35 PM Marc Haber 
> wrote:

Hello Bill,

 thanks for your Interest in Debian and also for your ramblings, 
which I

 don't quote for brevity.

 On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:40:51PM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:
 > I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and 
USB
 > drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital 
cloud? i
 > dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital 
software?


 Kindly educate us. What is the "modern" way to install an operating
 system on hardware if using an USB stick or some other boot medium
 is unwanted 1990ies technology?

 Please give detailed instructions how installing an operating system
 from "a digital cloud" would work?

 Best regards
 Marc Haber

 --
 
-
 Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse 
im Header
 Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 
1600402
 Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 
1600421

Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events

[Pirate Praveen]

On തി, ജൂൺ 27 2022 at 05:34:48 വൈകു +02:00:00 
+02:00:00, Jonathan Carter  wrote:

Furthermore, visa requirements tend to affect people from less
privileged countries the most. If we're serious about diversity, I 
think

that we should include covering the visa fee if we offer
travel+accommodation by default, and that this should be the default 
for

DebConf going forward, and ideally for all Debian events.


+1 Thanks for this proposal.


I realise I have some bias here, I myself come from a country where I
need a visa nearly everywhere I want to travel to, but I do think that
including visa fees by default will help making Debian easier to
contribute to for people who come from such countries, and ultimately
have a small role in helping us expand to more areas and improve our
diversity.


I think that is a benefit of diversity rather than bias. Having people 
in influencial position with diverse backgrounds makes it easy to 
understand others needs and requirements.




I don't think this needs to be a GR per sé, but I'd like to hear the
views of others on this, and I hope that we can garner enough 
consensus

so that we can just go ahead and implement this in our future bursary
policies.

-Jonathan

Re: History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes

[Pirate Praveen]

2022, ഫെബ്രുവരി 22 11:39:48 PM IST, Andrey Rahmatullin ൽ എഴുതി
>On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 12:29:53PM -0500, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
>> Allow me, if you will, to talk a bit about something that's been on my mind
>> a bit over the last handful of years in Debian. 
>I've heard a "we will discuss it and let you know in 5 years" joke about
>Debian before I've even started using or contributing to Debian, 10+ years
>ago.
>I don't know if this was ever different.
>The argument I've heard several times goes "yes, we discussed this and
>nothing came out of that discussion because nobody did the work, what did
>you expect?" or "we have a lot of ideas but not a lot of people willing to
>implement them".
>
There are also many cases where people are there to do the work, but some 
people holding authority simply block any change or just don't officially 
respond, even if specifically asked. Something we have been doing for many 
years is reason enough to keep doing the same.
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Debian and fingerprint readers

[Pirate Praveen]

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:57 am, Philip Hands  wrote:

Wouter Verhelst  writes:


 On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 05:57:15PM -0500, Sam Hartman wrote:
 The parts of Debian that are trying to do that are some of the 
desktop
 environments.  So, I'd approach the maintainers of Gnome and KDE 
and

 see if they are interested in recommending this functionality.


 It could also be added to the laptop task, which would mean it 
would be
 installed by default on all laptops that are installed with 
debian-installer


 Alternatively, d-i has some hardware detection functionality, to 
install
 the correct drivers for hardware that is found. One could add 
entries
 for supported fingerprint readers to the hardware detection in d-i, 
and

 then install the necessary packages.

 The hard part, however, is configuring all this so it works 
correctly

 out of the box, also for users who don't want to use it.


For users that don't want to use it, I'd suggest that the only correct
answer is for them to never have had the software on their computer at
any point, given that it's security sensitive software, and any bugs 
may

well have the potential to hurt.

I presume if one installs this software, that even when the screen is
locked, when someone swipes a finger (or a specifically crafted toxic
pattern for that matter) on the reader, that something will be 
provoked

to run that would not have been run if it were not installed.

That seems like an increase in attack surface to me, that we should 
not
lightly inflict on unsuspecting users just because *shiny finger 
scanner*.


I'd expect that people that want their fingerprint scanners to be in 
use

are mostly aware of that fact, so as long as we make the optional
packages easily installable, that seems completely sufficient to me.


From an earlier reply of Mark,
"It's just a case of needing the libfprint and fprintd packages 
installed

and then under settings->user you can start registering your prints."

So I think there is still a manual step required before this is active.

Re: Potential Summary: Keysigning in times of COVID-19

[Pirate Praveen]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 17:57, Adam Borowski  
wrote:
I don't get where people get the feeling that producing a passport 
would

require a TLA/nation state/organized crime/etc.  You can get one for
peanuts.

I've been offered one once, and I inquired about the details -- for 
just
~$25 (100PLN) the guy claimed it's done on original booklet, etc.  
That's
stuff for fooling actual government officials.  No need to sacrifice 
that
whole $25 to get a fake for Debian purposes, though -- no one among 
us can

tell apart one booklet/card with a badly-made photo from another.

Waving a passport or similar id offers laughable security.


I think the point about fake idenity documents is, it being a criminal 
activity and make one liable for prosecution. So it is not just about 
immediate cost of getting a fake id, but the is high risk if you are 
caught. Not all frauds get caught, but some do get caught and it 
probably serves as a deterrant or it sufficiently sets the bar very 
high (I think 3 letter agencies can still take the risk).

Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux

[Pirate Praveen]

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 9:13 am, Mark Pearson  
wrote:

Hi Pirate

On 6/5/2020 5:03 AM, Pirate Praveen wrote:






Hi Mark,

I also use a Thinkpad (X240) with Debian unstable, it mostly work 
except for some issues with touchpad and suspend (touchpad stops 
working after resuming from suspend, but I work around it using an 
external mouse).


OK - I'll see if I can find out about that. We previously had a 
similar issue on the X1C7 and that was fixed by a touchpad firmware 
update. I don't have a X240 myself but I'll see what I can find.




Thanks!

As someone who maintains a package that moves too fast for debian 
(gitlab which does not provide security updates to a release after 
3 months) and part of the team that maintains 
https://fasttrack.debian.net, I am happy to help you here.
That's really interesting - thanks for pointing it out. I can see 
that being really useful - though I have to get my head around a bit 
more how/when it is used.


We have offcial backports for packages that are already in testing 
(which will be in next stable release), but packages like gitlab which 
cannot be supported in the lifetime of a normal stable release cannot 
be in testing and consequently cannot be in official backports. So we 
created a new repository for packages like gitlab which changes too 
fast and connot be in stable or backports. It is still an unofficial 
project and based on how it gets acceptance in the community, it could 
become an official project later (backports was also started as an 
unofficial project initially).




I also mentor a lot of new contributors to Debian, so feel free to 
ask me about any Debian issues and processes. I'm not an expert in 
drivers and hardware, but I can definitely help with backporting 
part. We could use fasttrack to make things available sooner to 
stable users if regular backports are not possible.

Thank you - that is very much appreciated.
I haven't so far got as far as thinking about the backporting stage 
so I probably need more education there. My goal so far has been to 
get fixes from upstream into sid so that Debian users can pick them 
up from there.

But being able to backport them from there would be brilliant.


$ rmadison linux-image-amd64
[older releases skipped]
linux-image-amd64 | 4.19+105+deb10u4| stable   
| amd64
linux-image-amd64 | 5.5.17-1~bpo10+1| buster-backports 
| amd64
linux-image-amd64 | 5.6.14-1| testing  
| amd64
linux-image-amd64 | 5.6.14-1| unstable 
| amd64
linux-image-amd64 | 5.7~rc5-1~exp1  | experimental 
| amd64


As you can see buster-backports already has linux kernel 5.5, even 
though stable is still at 4.19. But as Ansgar pointed out here[1], it 
is still not very smooth experience and is fine for a server app like 
gitlab, but we need more polish for this to be usable to not very 
technical users or find other ways like he mentioned, add as extra 
package to normal update. But if your expectation is for people who can 
pick up from sid, I think picking from backports would be easier.


[1]https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/06/msg00019.html

RE: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux

[Pirate Praveen]

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:39 pm, Mark Pearson  
wrote:
From my point of view what I've been trying to do is to get more 
involved so I can contribute/backport fixes directly. I get good 
insight into what issues impact our platforms and when fixes land 
upstream. It seems the best way to make contribute and make a 
difference. Unfortunately I've still got a *lot* of learning to do 
and it's a really slow process because the loop between offering a 
fix, getting it reviewed to find out what you did wrong and 
contributing the update is crazy slow (for example I have kernel MR 
240 open for four weeks for an OLED brightness issue that a lot of 
users think is important).  My expectation is that as I make fewer 
mistakes and earn some trust that will help - but until that point 
(which I'm guessing will take years ) I have limited handles that 
I can pull on to make things happen.
My *impression* is there is limited desire to accelerate fixes for 
Lenovo platforms - I suspect mostly because people are just plenty 
busy with the things they care about instead and I understand that.


Hi Mark,

I also use a Thinkpad (X240) with Debian unstable, it mostly work 
except for some issues with touchpad and suspend (touchpad stops 
working after resuming from suspend, but I work around it using an 
external mouse).


As someone who maintains a package that moves too fast for debian 
(gitlab which does not provide security updates to a release after 3 
months) and part of the team that maintains 
https://fasttrack.debian.net, I am happy to help you here.


I also mentor a lot of new contributors to Debian, so feel free to ask 
me about any Debian issues and processes. I'm not an expert in drivers 
and hardware, but I can definitely help with backporting part. We could 
use fasttrack to make things available sooner to stable users if 
regular backports are not possible.


A shout out for Hector Martinez who has been helping me a whole 
bunch. Without his help I likely would have given up and wouldn't 
even be reading the threads on this forum. If there are more people 
like Hector (particularly in kernel, audio and graphics) let me know!


This email took me a long time to write - I'm *very* aware that I'm 
new to this and don't want to cause offence. Please take all of the 
above with the recognition that my viewpoint into Debian is still 
limited and if I've said anything dumb/wrong/offensive let me know so 
I can learn what I'm missing.


Mark

Re: alioth-lists and mailman3 (was Re: Discourse usability)

[Pirate Praveen]

On 2020, ഏപ്രിൽ 20 11:32:09 AM IST, Andrei POPESCU  
wrote:
>On Du, 19 apr 20, 18:55:10, Alex Muntada wrote:
>> Hi Andrei,
>> 
>> > On Vi, 17 apr 20, 00:42:49, Abhijith PA wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > I run a mailman3 instance with debian mailman3 package at
>> > > lists.fsci.org.in for FSCI[1]. If anyone interested to
>> > > try/test or need to run as lists.debian.net :) you are more
>> > > than welcome.
>> > 
>> > alioth-lists.debian.net might be interested / a good test
>> > candidate.
>> 
>> If I'm reading you correctly, you're suggesting that alioth-lists
>> might be run from lists.fsci.org.in mailman3.
>
>In my understanding Abhijith is offering help in case anyone would like
>
>to test Mailman 3 in Debian (e.g. on a debian.net domain and even for 
>lists.debian.org if there is interest), lists.fsci.org was mentioned as
>
>"previous experience".

It is public list hosting service (I'm also part of the team that runs these 
services, see https://fsci.in for all the services we run). If there an 
interest to try mailman 3, we can add lists.debian.net domain to the instance.

>Apologies if my understanding was wrong.
>
>Kind regards,
>Andrei

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian

[Pirate Praveen]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 6:39 pm, Tollef Fog Heen  wrote:

It's not clear to me why removing the -guest restriction has to happen
for sso.d.o to be using Salsa as an IdP, which seems to be your 
primary
goal?  That's my most immediate concern.  Switching to oauth2/OIDC 
seems

like a good idea, and assuming we can move to another broker somewhere
down the line, I have no problems with that happening.



This was already answered here,

https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/04/msg00031.html

On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 07:50:22PM +0800, Shengjing Zhu wrote:
> 1. Can you still keep the "-guest" enforcement, so it's still easy to
> recognize who is DD or not on salsa?

No.  The guest suffix was meant to avoid collisions with Debian
accounts.  And the tool used to enforce it is unmaintained.

Also the only place that can for sure answer if someone is DD is
nm.debian.org, not Salsa.

Re: Do we still value contributions?

[Pirate Praveen]

On വ്യാ, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:33, Jonas Smedegaard  
wrote:

Ninka, Licensecheck, and other related tools are tracked at
https://wiki.debian.org/CopyrightReviewTools


license-reconcile is my favorite from the list of tools mentioned 
there. Though it seems this tool is looking for maintainers. 
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=933126

Re: On a policy for non-debian foss content in a mini debconf

[Pirate Praveen]

On Monday 08 September 2014 08:47 AM, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
 Hi, Praveen and Shirish (and Indian Debian Users),
 Well, a DebConf is about Debian, and I mostly agree with Steve's
 answer: Not just any Linux conference should be called a DebConf or
 MiniDebConf. There has to be a Debian slant to the conference as a whole.

The slant here is that it is organized by the debian community, with the
intention of getting more participation in debian. The contention here
is giving the local community a chance to share their free software
contribution on this platform.

 In my opinion, it would be very good for you to hold a MiniDebConf
 with the clear goals of attracting people to Debian, getting them
 involved, getting more to become involved. Either technically or
 socially.
 
 But then again, I'm just one more random DD :) Talk among yourselves,
 talk with our DPL (Lucas Nussbaum), talk with the DebConf Chairs
 (Moray Allan, Tássia Camões, Martín Ferrari), and... Get the ball
 rolling :)

Thanks for your comments. But it seems some random DDs are more equal
than other random DDs.

It has already brought an active free software community in touch with
debian (they have joined debian lists to organize the event). But
keeping debconf brand pure seems to be of higher priority for some.

It beyond me how minidebconfs have been like this always has a higher
value than how do we bring more contributors to debian. It seems we
are allowed only to follow the same patterns and formula that has been
tried before. Any efforts to deviate would be strongly opposed.

That is also fine with me, if that is codified as an official policy.
I'm also fine about creating a new brand which will have a clear
definition it is an event to seek more contributions to debian by
reaching out to more people and it is organized by debian in
collaboration with a local free software community. We will share our
experience with debian and will listen to their work on free software.

I propose we call it Debian Utsav(am) (it is festival in many Indian
languages). Free Software festival by Debian.

Having a general free software conference and having a debian track
doesn't reflect this tilt correctly. I don't see, no one ever done this
before or it is silly because all debconfs have been this way, is a
valid justification to stopping us from trying this under debconf.

I am surprised fedora community is more open in this respect, I had
given a talk on diaspora at fudcon 2011, which was organized in Pune.
[1] You can see many free software talks not directly related to fedora
there [2]. Now if the argument is, we have always done debconf this way
and any change in content would be opposed tooth and nail, I rest my case.

I can clearly see the benefit to fedora in such a format and I believe
debian would also benefit from such a format.

The point of me bringing the discussion to -project is to have an
official policy on the issue, so we don't have to evaluate which random
DD is more equal.

I also would like to hear from the DPL and DebConf chairs on this issue.
A clear indication on this would help us make the correct choices soon
as the event date is coming very close (October 17th).

[1]
https://diaspune.onlinegroups.net/groups/dias_pune/messages/post/1iAbowJ35hqNpZmk1YuxtJ
[2] http://fudcon.in/program/fudcon_schedule

My choices in the order of preference,

1. Redefine mini debconf to allow free software talks if the local
organizers chooses so.
2. Create a new even like debian utsavam which will define the content
as a collaboration of debian with a local free software community.
3. Organize a general foss conference and have a debian track.



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Re: On a policy for non-debian foss content in a mini debconf

[Pirate Praveen]

On Monday 08 September 2014 05:13 PM, Pirate Praveen wrote:
 I'm also fine about creating a new brand which will have a clear
 definition it is an event to seek more contributions to debian by
 reaching out to more people and it is organized by debian in
 collaboration with a local free software community. We will share our
 experience with debian and will listen to their work on free software.
 
 I propose we call it Debian Utsav(am) (it is festival in many Indian
 languages). Free Software festival by Debian.

I have registered debutsav.in and we can use it for this event. This way
we can leave debconfs to its current avatar and continue the broader
free software event as planned.

Thanks
Praveen



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On a policy for non-debian foss content in a mini debconf

[Pirate Praveen]

Hi,

There was recent discussions on debian-dug-in list [1][2] on the content
of a mini debconf being planned in India during October 17 and 18.

The event is being organized in an engineering college with a good track
record of free software contributions [3]. I proposed a mini debconf in
the hope of getting more contributions to debian. Since we did not get
many debian contributors to attend the event and encouraging the student
who already contributed to give talks on their Free Software contributions.

But many in the community felt mini debconfs and debconfs have been
primarily about debian and having other talks would confuse attendees.
Some suggested 1/3 of the talks could be about debian as debconfs have a
debian day where local community can join.

I would like us to define the requirements of calling an event mini
debconf as a policy so we don't have to have this debate every time we
organize a mini debconf.

My suggestion would be to leave that to the local organizers based on
the strength of local communities to decide how much debian content
would qualify for calling it a debconf.

I'm also thinking about creating a new brand like debian utsav which
would mean a joint event of debian and local debian community to share
each others experiences.

Cheers
Praveen

[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-dug-in/2014/08/msg00090.html
[2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-dug-in/2014/09/msg00014.html
[3] http://amritafoss.in/



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