Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-25 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
Thank you, Andrey and Jeremy.

I didn't know these sites. I will try again.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 9:09 PM, Jeremy Stanley <fu...@yuggoth.org> wrote:

> On 2018-04-25 10:06:47 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> [...]
> > I spent much time to research on it, so that I can tell what
> > difference between 3.6.1 and 3.6.4 packaging.
> [...]
>
> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/p/
> python3.6/python3.6_3.6.5-3_changelog
>
> https://manpages.debian.org/debdiff
>
> http://snapshot.debian.org/package/python3.6/
>



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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 7:43 AM, Brian May <b...@debian.org> wrote:

> Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.q...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> If using pip to install packages is fine (which can result in compiling
> from source although increasing use of wheels helps), then I personally
> fail to see the problem with using something like pyenv.
>
>
​I use pip to install from pre-built wheel. I don't let pip to compile the
source on my embedded computer, because it also takes much time.​
​So in summary, I tried to avoid doing compilation job directly on my
embedded computer, either Python interpreter or Python C libraries.​

(Where I get wheel? I rent a bare-metal ARM server from Scaleway to build
the wheel there).


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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 3:16 AM, Matthew Woodcraft <matt...@woodcraft.me.uk>
wrote:

> Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
>
> You didn't say what dependency problem you're seeing. Is it python3.6
> depending on python3-distutils?
>

​Yes, and when I tried to backport python3-disutils, it depends on python
3.7 !!!​

​https://packages.debian.org/source/buster/python3-stdlib-extensions​

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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:58 AM, Jeremy Stanley <fu...@yuggoth.org> wrote:

> On 2018-04-24 23:42:30 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> [...]
> I completely understand the reason for using packages, but Debian is
> a volunteer project which does not exist solely to solve your
> problems so you can either do something you already know how to do
> (build Python 3.6 from source) and move on, or learn to make the
> packages you want (including fixing any backporting issues you find
> when doing so). Asking others to tell you how to do that is not the
> sort of self-directed research expected of participants in a
> volunteer project, it's at best begging and at worst disrespectful
> of those who have invested the time to learn the things you're not
> willing.
>
> https://backports.debian.org/Contribute/
>

​Sorry if you feel disrespectful. But don't you think that this issue is
not mine-only, it may be other users as well?
​I spent much time to research on it, so that I can tell what difference
between 3.6.1 and 3.6.4 packaging.​

My voice here may let the packager think again why they make package
scripts so different between minor versions of Python. Don't you think that
it is good?

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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Andrey Rahmatullin 
wrote:

>
> No, you are talking about the 3.6.4 packaging files while I'm suggesting
> to not use them.
>

Do you mean to use "
​​python3.6_3.6.1-1.debian.tar.xz" (of 3.6.1) and change its number to
"python3.6_3.6.4-4.debian.tar.xz" (of 3.6.4) and change its changelog
content?

Unfortunately, the .debian.tar.xz for 3.6.1 already disappear from Debian
repository!
Today, even the 3.6.4 disappears, only 3.6.5 stay and the dependencies
graph of 3.6.5 is the same as 3.6.4.

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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:05 AM, Andrey Rahmatullin 
wrote:

>
> How is this related to my suggestion?
>


​Your suggestion is:

​"
​
​Adapt it from the 3.6.1 one. Replacing the tarball and changing the
version in the changelog"

​And I'm proving that it is not enough.​

There are so many change between Debian's Python 3.6.1 & 3.6.4 packaging
script that I cannot do it myself and I have to request here. I don't
understand the packaging as well as the maintainers here.


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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 11:45 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin  wrote:

> > > Adapt it from the 3.6.1 one?
> > >
> >
> > ​Excuse me. What do​ ​you mean by "adapt"?
> Replacing the tarball and changing the version in the changelog, for a
> start.
>

As I told: "But there is difference in dependency hierarchy between Stretch
and Buster, so the found script produces *.deb files which are not
installable (due to missing dependencies)."

​Changing changelog file is not enough to make it works.

One example:
>From 3.6.4, the build script specifies that​ python3.6 depends on
python3-distutils, but python3-distutils doesn't exist on Debian stretch.
In 3.61, there is no this dependence relationship, so the deb is
installable on Debian stretch.

"python3-distutils" is just one of problems starting to appear from Python
3.6.4 packaging script.


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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 10:19 PM, Jeremy Stanley <fu...@yuggoth.org> wrote:

> On 2018-04-24 22:07:03 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> [...]
> > I don't need to "not disturb" system.
> > If have to use conda, pyenv, I would rather build Python3.6 from source
> > tarball, not to bring more overhead (conda body, pyenv body), and
> > "Python3.6 from source" still not disturb my system, because it is
> > installed to "/usr/local".
> >
> > But I don't want any method that requires to build Python from source
> > (tarball, pythonz, conda or alike), because I really need *pre-built
> > binaries*.
> [...]
>
> Unless I'm missing something, there's no substantial difference
> between building a package of Python3.6 and copying it to the
> system, or performing a `make altinstall` and copying the resulting
> files (via rsync, tar and scp, whatever) to the target system. If
> you're okay with the idea of building packages remotely, then why
> not build from source remotely?
>

​Then why Debian project invent *.deb file, not just pack binary as tar
file and let user to untar it?​
​I favor building deb file, rather than copying "make altinstall" result,
because of the same reason.​


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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 9:45 PM, Ludovic Gasc <gml...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> You can use pythonz, conda or pyenv to install the version of Python you
> want without to disturb your system.
>

​I don't need to "not disturb" system.
If have to use conda, pyenv, I would rather build Python3.6 from source
tarball, not to bring more overhead (conda body, pyenv body), and
"Python3.6 from source"​ still not disturb my system, because it is
installed to "/usr/local".

But I don't want any method that requires to build Python from source
(tarball, pythonz, conda or alike), because I really need *pre-built
binaries*.

As I told in the first email, I use Python in an embedded board (BeagleBone
Black), which is very limited in term of disk space and CPU.
Building Python is a very heavy job, taking nights to done, and I also want
to save flash space from storing Python source.


​So, I try to build Python as deb and use apt to install to my board. I was
successful to do so with Python 3.6.1, using the .dsc file found on Debian
buster repo. But since Python 3.6.4, the build script has changed
drastically that​ it cannot be use to build for Debian stretch.

Btw, what I need is just a build/packaging script. I don't need you to
build and publish Python3.6 to official repository.

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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 5:41 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin <w...@debian.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 05:27:08PM +0700, Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> > > It's not enough to backport the interpreter, all binary modules will
> need
> > > to be recompiled too.
> > ​Why?​
> To be able to be imported in Python3.6.
>

​Sorry? As I told, just leave the python3-xxx packages to be used with
python3.5 (default Python3 of Debian 9).
I don't need those to be used with Python3.6.
For whatever I need to use with Python3.6, I just install via "pip3.6".​
For Python3.6, you just need to provide python3.6 (+ its standard lib),
python3.6-dev.

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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 3:12 PM, W. Martin Borgert <deba...@debian.org>
wrote:

> This is interesting! Did you also compare Python 2.7 with 3.5/3.6?
>
>
​No, I'm not interested in Python 2. Every my project is started with
Python 3.​

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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 3:05 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin <w...@debian.org> wrote:

> It's not enough to backport the interpreter, all binary modules will need
> to be recompiled too.
>

​Why?​
Just leave Python3.6 exist in parallel to Python3.5. Don't touch Python3.5
package folder. Don't convert python3-xxx to be usable with Python3.6.


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Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
Python 3.6 has much better performance than Python 3.5, especially on
embedded computer (I tried and compared).
I also like new Python 3.6 features: f-string, improved type hint (Python
3.5 has it, but Python 3.6 improved).

On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 2:44 PM, W. Martin Borgert <deba...@debian.org>
wrote:

> Could you elaborate, why you need Python 3.6 instead of 3.5?
> Maybe there is a way to make your application work with 3.5?
> E.g. by backporting specific modules?
>

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Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

2018-04-24 Thread Nguyễn Hồng Quân
I'm using Debian 9 on an ARM board (BeagleBone), for our IoT project.
We write an application which needs Python 3.6. But we are struggling with
packaging Python 3.6 as deb packages for Debian 9. We found the dsc file
for Debian buster. But there is difference in dependency hierarchy between
Stretch and Buster, so the found script produces *.deb files which are not
installable (due to missing dependencies).

Could you please provide an official packaging script for Python 3.6 and
Debian 9?

Thank you.


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