Re: Bug#936604: FYI: Python 3 migration of distributuion

2020-12-11 Thread Osamu Aoki
Hi,

It's a fork with a new upstream with some issues.  (Not supported by
the old upstream)

Anyway, I switched out from getmail to other MUA.

No one seems to take over this package maintenance.

So please remove this package.  I am not going to package the new
getmail6.

Regards,

Osamu


On Wed, 2020-10-21 at 22:41 +0200, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 10:43:49PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 02:28:44PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 11:11:43AM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> > > > Osamu Aoki  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Currently, getmail is a candidate for removal from the
> > > > > upcoming Debian
> > > > > release if it is not updated to support python 3 by someone
> > > > > (not
> > > > > necessary by upstream).
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for the update, Osamu.  I have actually been playing
> > > > with a prototype
> > > > refactoring of getmail to not just support but require a recent
> > > > Python 3.x
> > > > version.  Such a project would give me the opportunity to
> > > > remove a lot of
> > > > historical cruft and backwards-compatibility code that getmail
> > > > has accumulated
> > > > over 20+ years.
> > > 
> > > That's great.  (I thought you rejected idea to move to 3.0.)
> > > 
> > > I tried to do it around getmail 5.5 days.  (I didn't finish it)
> > 
> > 
> > FYI: I found this repo
> > https://gitlab.com/dkg/getmail/commits/python3
> > I think this is better work than my local work.
> 
> Hi Osamu,
> given that a Py3-compatible version is now available as src:getmail6,
> let's go ahead and remove getmail?
> 
> Cheers,
>     Moritz    



Re: FYI: Python 3 migration of distributuion

2019-11-19 Thread Osamu Aoki
On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 02:28:44PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 11:11:43AM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> > Osamu Aoki  wrote:
> > >
> > > Currently, getmail is a candidate for removal from the upcoming Debian
> > > release if it is not updated to support python 3 by someone (not
> > > necessary by upstream).
> >
> > Thanks for the update, Osamu.  I have actually been playing with a prototype
> > refactoring of getmail to not just support but require a recent Python 3.x
> > version.  Such a project would give me the opportunity to remove a lot of
> > historical cruft and backwards-compatibility code that getmail has 
> > accumulated
> > over 20+ years.
>
> That's great.  (I thought you rejected idea to move to 3.0.)
>
> I tried to do it around getmail 5.5 days.  (I didn't finish it)


FYI: I found this repo
https://gitlab.com/dkg/getmail/commits/python3
I think this is better work than my local work.

Osamu



Re: FYI: Python 3 migration of distributuion

2019-11-16 Thread Osamu Aoki
Hi,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 11:11:43AM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Osamu Aoki  wrote:
> >
> > Currently, getmail is a candidate for removal from the upcoming Debian
> > release if it is not updated to support python 3 by someone (not
> > necessary by upstream).
>
> Thanks for the update, Osamu.  I have actually been playing with a prototype
> refactoring of getmail to not just support but require a recent Python 3.x
> version.  Such a project would give me the opportunity to remove a lot of
> historical cruft and backwards-compatibility code that getmail has accumulated
> over 20+ years.

That's great.  (I thought you rejected idea to move to 3.0.)

I tried to do it around getmail 5.5 days.  (I didn't finish it)

> Unfortunately, it's difficult to find the hours to devote to this task.  I
> don't know when, or even if, I could have a beta release ready.
>
> > If you convert python 2 code for 2.7 style, then we can support both
> > python 2 and 3.
>
> I'm not very interested in doing this, as it means not using a lot of 3.x
> features, or not using them in the most Pythonic way.  My thought was that
> this project would target at least Python 3.7; anyone who didn't want to run
> 3.7 could still run "legacy" getmail under Python 2.7.

I understand.  When I tried to convert this to Python3, the first thing
I did was clean out all backward compatibility codes, too.  It is too
much work to keep them.

Also if it is Python3 only, we don't need to add things like:

from __future__ import division
 from future import standard_library

If you have a public git repository, maybe some Debian developer may
help you.  If you want, I can set up one at salsa.debian.org (or
github.com) where ever you are comfortable.

At least, if we have a place to share work in progress, we don't
duplicate efforts.


Osamu



Re: Bug#936604: getmail: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye

2019-11-13 Thread Osamu Aoki
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 03:31:04PM +0100, Iustin Pop wrote:
> On 2019-11-13 15:06:54, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > On 11/12/19 4:37 PM, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> > > The related binary packages are available in 2 binary names (depending on 
> > > release)
> > >  getmail4 (version=4,5) popcon installed ~2000
> > >  getmail  (version=3,5) popcon installed ~1000
> > >
> > > https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=getmail%20getmail4_installed=on_legend=on_ticks=on_fmt=%25Y-%25m=1
> > >
> > > I think this qualifies for "py2keep".
> >
> > IMO, this qualifies for RM-RoM. getmail is an alternative to fetchmail,
> > which is still available in Debian (and with 4 times the number of
> > installed package in popcon...). So I see no reason to keep getmail
> > then. Maybe tell this to upstream, and they may think another time.
>
> Uh, no. Functionality-wise, they're quite different. getmail is (AFAIK)
> the only tool that works for gmail with ASPs disabled (i.e. with OAUTH).
>
> Heck, I'd be very willing to maintain Py3 patches myself, because I need
> this tool.

Please take over packaging from me then.  You are welcome.

Osamu



FYI: Python 3 migration of distributuion

2019-11-13 Thread Osamu Aoki
Hi,

This is just FYI on situation.

Currently, getmail is a candidate for removal from the upcoming Debian
release if it is not updated to support python 3 by someone (not
necessary by upstream).

Here is the background 

Debian and Ubuntu are pushing to remove python2 in next 2020 release.
  https://wiki.debian.org/Python/2Removal
  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-November/040842.html

You can see its progress for Debian at:
  http://sandrotosi.me/debian/py2removal/py2removal_progress.png
They converted packages to support python3 for almost the half of the
problematic python2 packages in 3 months.  With this pace, they think
they can remove python2.

Ubuntu also has list:
  https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/python2-rm.html

Some migration activities were implemented by Debian maintainers
patching the upstream package without upstream help.  So something like
that may happen on getmail if some other Debian developers take actions.
(I, for one, will not do this considering getmail being a security
sensitive mail application and needs upstream support of python3 code.)

Please also note Fedora seems to be doing the similar:
  https://pagure.io/releng/issue/8221
  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/F31_Mass_Python_2_Package_Removal

Please don't expect some major distros to be supporting python2 after 2020.

If you convert python 2 code for 2.7 style, then we can support both
python 2 and 3.  If some code needs to be made compatible with pre=2.7
version, may be making that section of code conditional to python
version may accommodate it without causing python 3 compatibility
problem.

If you update package to support python 3, I will upload it to Debian.

Regards,

Osamu



Re: Bug#936604: getmail: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye

2019-11-13 Thread Osamu Aoki
Hi,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 09:27:08AM +0100, Ondrej Novy wrote:
> Hi,
>
> út 12. 11. 2019 v 16:37 odesílatel Osamu Aoki  napsal:
>
> Upstream is active and prides to keep python 2.5 compatibility code in
> it ... (Not just 2.7).  I (Osamu Aoki ) and dkg even
> made some effort to support both 2 and 3 but the idea was rejected by
> upstream in 2018.
>
>
> that's odd :/
>
>
> I think this qualifies for "py2keep".
>
>
> i don't think so. Imho is better to support Py3 in Debian with our patches.

dkj: Do you?  (Not me)

> If Debian and Fedora demonstrate its python3 removal, I am sure the
> upstream may change his thought.  If you have some progress indicator,
> that can be used to convince getmail upstream.  I or dkg need a solid
> fact to restart conversation with the upstream.
>
>
> yes, we have! :)
>
> http://sandrotosi.me/debian/py2removal/py2removal_progress.png
>
> Almost half of work is done in ~ 3 months.

This is interesting.  I will inform upstream about this progress.

But how much od current ~1800 packages fall into high popcon and build
dependency category.   Are these all high pop conpackages?

Osamu



Re: Bug#936604: getmail: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye

2019-11-13 Thread Osamu Aoki
Hi,

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 04:57:17PM +0100, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 12:37:27AM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> > Upstream is active and prides to keep python 2.5 compatibility code in
> > it ... (Not just 2.7).  I (Osamu Aoki ) and dkg even
> > made some effort to support both 2 and 3 but the idea was rejected by
> > upstream in 2018.  (Then we both lost motivation since upstream will not
> > include such code in near future)
> >   https://marc.info/?l=getmail=151542515929707=2
> >
> > The upstream is somehow convinced that python2 will be there for some
> > time (Year ~2020 and later).
> >   https://marc.info/?l=getmail=151542154628352=2
>
> uh. meh.
>
> I haven't looked at the code, but if you made the effort, how improbable
> would it be for you to just keep the patches for py3 support yourself in
> the packaging for the time being?

Neither of us got to compete patches to be accepted by the upstream or
fully functioning code for all versions upstream wanted to support, if I
recall correctly.

Besides, patches applied were extensive.  Considering security
implication, not accepted by upstream was the killer.  The upstream
updates this package when security concerns are raised.

Anyway, if Debian compiles a transition statistics of python3 migration,
we can point upstream to it.

Do we have stat of number of packages:
 A) Packages using python3
 B) Packages using python2 but python3 version is also available.
 C) Packages using python2 but python3 version is not available and
it is required by standard package building
 D) Packages using python2 but python3 version is not available and
it is not required by standard package building,
but it has high popcon over 1000.

If "C" portion is getting less than 1% and "D" portion is getting 1% of
"A" portion, I guess upstream may change mind.

If we know how Fedora has done, that may help convince upstream.

Regards,

Osamu



getmail: Python2 removal in sid/bullseye

2019-11-12 Thread Osamu Aoki
Hi,

It seems I need to discuss here before adding followings.

| Package: src:getmail
| Version: 5.13-1
| Severity: normal
| Tags: sid bullseye
| User: debian-python@lists.debian.org
| Usertags: py2keep

Upstream is active and prides to keep python 2.5 compatibility code in
it ... (Not just 2.7).  I (Osamu Aoki ) and dkg even
made some effort to support both 2 and 3 but the idea was rejected by
upstream in 2018.  (Then we both lost motivation since upstream will not
include such code in near future)
  https://marc.info/?l=getmail=151542515929707=2

The upstream is somehow convinced that python2 will be there for some
time (Year ~2020 and later).
  https://marc.info/?l=getmail=151542154628352=2
| > Python2 will be EOL after 2020.
| [...]
| > But, if getmail stays as python2 code, many distros have no choice but
| > to drop getmail sometime after 2020.
| 
| Uh, no, they won't.  Python 2 may stop *development*, but it doesn't magically
| stop working in 2020.  I fully expect distros will keep shipping Python 2 for
| years after that, and undoubtedly there will still be lots of Python 2 code
| in the world running in 2030 and later.

The related binary packages are available in 2 binary names (depending on 
release)
 getmail4 (version=4,5) popcon installed ~2000
 getmail  (version=3,5) popcon installed ~1000

https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=getmail%20getmail4_installed=on_legend=on_ticks=on_fmt=%25Y-%25m=1

I think this qualifies for "py2keep".

The next upload of new upstream 5.14 should update dependency etc to
python2 instead of bare python.

If Debian and Fedora demonstrate its python3 removal, I am sure the
upstream may change his thought.  If you have some progress indicator,
that can be used to convince getmail upstream.  I or dkg need a solid
fact to restart conversation with the upstream.

Regards,

Osamu