Re: Is using experimental distribution for shelter during freeze useful?
Hi, On 27-11-18 12:38, Hideki Yamane wrote: > Well, we use experimental as "shelter" during freeze, but it's not good > in my point of view. > > - During freeze, it is just ignored by most of the users since they >wouldn't know there's a newer package in there (and they also afraid >because it's in "experimental" ;). It means "not tested" if they were >in Debian repository for a long time period > - Re-uploading to unstable is just boring, and no values are added by it > - unstable users wants new valued packages constantly. After release, >"package flood" to unstable is not good. > > So, I guess putting fixed packages into "testing-proposed-updates" and > to continue to upload packages to unstable during freeze period is better. > > Pros) > - unstable distribution stays newest > - No "unintended" changes will be introduced into testing during freeze > > Cons) > - Maybe you should do cherry-picking changes from unstable to >testing-proposed-updates, not just ask "unblock" to Release Managers. > - Harder to get users for test with testing-proposed-updates repository > > Your thoughts? I am not a member of the release team, but I am involved in recent changes to some of the tools used for migration from unstable to testing. Since the previous release, those tools and the QA they rely on have moved in the opposite direction of what you want and have made the request stronger to not upload disruptive changes to unstable during the freeze. Also see the release team's statement on this topic [1]: "It is usually better to revert the changes in unstable and upload the fix there.". If you want to make this an option for bullseye (I believe it is too late to properly implement and test this all now), I propose to help improve the QA and workflow via testing-proposed-updates, as I have the impression that the people currently involved in the QA and workflow (including me) are not interested to work towards your solution themselves. So to answer your question: yes, using experimental during the freeze for uploads not intended to be included in the next stable release is useful. Paul [1] https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html (under "Changes which can be considered") signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Is using experimental distribution for shelter during freeze useful?
On 11/27/18 12:38 PM, Hideki Yamane wrote: > Hi, > > Well, we use experimental as "shelter" during freeze, but it's not good > in my point of view. > > - During freeze, it is just ignored by most of the users since they >wouldn't know there's a newer package in there (and they also afraid >because it's in "experimental" ;). It means "not tested" if they were >in Debian repository for a long time period > - Re-uploading to unstable is just boring, and no values are added by it > - unstable users wants new valued packages constantly. After release, >"package flood" to unstable is not good. > > So, I guess putting fixed packages into "testing-proposed-updates" and > to continue to upload packages to unstable during freeze period is better. > > Pros) > - unstable distribution stays newest > - No "unintended" changes will be introduced into testing during freeze > > Cons) > - Maybe you should do cherry-picking changes from unstable to >testing-proposed-updates, not just ask "unblock" to Release Managers. The process would stay the same, just instead of uploading to unstable during the freeze, we would upload to t-p-u. > - Harder to get users for test with testing-proposed-updates repository Nothing would prevent one from uploading to both t-p-u and sid. I very much support this proposal, but we're probably too close from the freeze already, and this would probably also need some work on the release team and/or FTP master side. If you want this to happen, maybe you should get in touch with both teams directly and do the work *after* buster is released? Anyway, they would tell... Cheers, Thomas Goirand (zigo)
Re: Is using experimental distribution for shelter during freeze useful?
Hello, On Tue 27 Nov 2018 at 08:38PM +0900, Hideki Yamane wrote: > Cons) > - Maybe you should do cherry-picking changes from unstable to >testing-proposed-updates, not just ask "unblock" to Release Managers. > - Harder to get users for test with testing-proposed-updates repository - Additional work for the release team as the testing-proposed-updates mechanism is more work to approve changes, AIUI. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Is using experimental distribution for shelter during freeze useful?
> Your thoughts? sid is not a rolling release for the public, it is a development area. Some users use it as a rolling release to get bleeding edge software, but in fact they become a developer that way (not meaning DD). If you think regular development prevents you from staying up to date during the freeze, install the packages you need from experimental. You are a developer, after all. -nik signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Is using experimental distribution for shelter during freeze useful?
Quoting Hideki Yamane (2018-11-27 12:38:46) > Hi, > > Well, we use experimental as "shelter" during freeze, but it's not good > in my point of view. > > - During freeze, it is just ignored by most of the users since they >wouldn't know there's a newer package in there (and they also afraid >because it's in "experimental" ;). It means "not tested" if they were >in Debian repository for a long time period > - Re-uploading to unstable is just boring, and no values are added by it > - unstable users wants new valued packages constantly. After release, >"package flood" to unstable is not good. > > So, I guess putting fixed packages into "testing-proposed-updates" and > to continue to upload packages to unstable during freeze period is better. > > Pros) > - unstable distribution stays newest > - No "unintended" changes will be introduced into testing during freeze > > Cons) > - Maybe you should do cherry-picking changes from unstable to >testing-proposed-updates, not just ask "unblock" to Release Managers. > - Harder to get users for test with testing-proposed-updates repository > > Your thoughts? Let's not make freeze more comfortable. Let's make freeze more efficient - and uncomfortable to ignore. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
