Re: Emoji fonts in Debian [WAS:] Re: How to NOT automatically mount a specific partition of an external device?
On Wed, Dec 01, 2021 at 09:31:43PM -0600, David Wright wrote: As for the firefox version, it manages to combine them, but throws the emphasis onto the face, and just looks like a mischievous kid's cartoon character. That's exactly what I look like ;) -- Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list. Jonathan Dowland ✎j...@debian.org https://jmtd.net
Re: using intel i5 freqency governors
On 12/1/21 9:08 PM, Lee wrote: Hi, On 12/1/21, David Christensen wrote: On 12/1/21 8:58 AM, Lee wrote: The short story is that I have an Intel i3 windows 10 desktop with cygwin installed and an Intel i5 debian desktop. One of my scripts takes about 10 minutes to run on the windows/i3 and 15 minutes on the debian/i5! ick if i do $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance then it takes about 10 minutes to run the script on the i5, **but** the cpu frequency never drops down to power-saving mode when the machine is idle - eg $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | grep 'call to kernel' current CPU frequency: 3.99 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.95 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 4.01 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.91 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.96 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 4.00 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) That is expected. Performance runs the CPU at maximum frequency all of the time. and more annoying, setting the frequency governor back to powersave doesn't seem to drop the frequency all that much $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g powersave Setting cpu: 0 Setting cpu: 1 Setting cpu: 2 Setting cpu: 3 Setting cpu: 4 Setting cpu: 5 $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | egrep 'call to kernel|The governor' The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.85 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.58 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 4.01 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.55 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.66 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.57 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) That is a problem. How do I get the intel cpu "turbo boost" fully engaged when I'm running my script and go back into power save mode when the machine is idle? I leave my governor at the default value (powersave) all of the time. Which i3? Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-7100 CPU @ 3.90GHz That should run a single-threaded program at 3.90 GHz. i5? Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-9400 CPU @ 2.90GHz That should run a single-threaded program at 4.10 GHz. There's an 'Operating frequency' graph at https://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/414/Intel_Core_i3_i3-7100_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-9400.html comparing the i3 to the i5. It looks like they should be roughly even .. which they seem to be if I do the sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance before running the script. Sites like that typically use benchmarks that use all available cores. I looked at the Intel site to get the single-threaded numbers, above: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?productIds=134898,97455 Debian? Linux? Debian 11 .. which is linux - yes? Linux is the kernel. 'uname -a' (below) gives that information. I assume your script is single-threaded (?). You assume correctly :) I am unfamiliar with 'cpupower'. I use cpufreq-set(1) to set the governor and the Xfce panel applet "CPU Frequency Monitor" to monitor the CPU frequency and/or governor. The CPU Frequency Monitor applet seems to work only if you're root :( It is unwise to run a graphical desktop as root. CPU Frequency Monitor works correctly with my normal account on Debian 9 and 10. I have not tried 11. I added it to my xfce panel and it just says 0.80Ghz -- Right click on it, choose Properties, and set Display CPU to "max". Then run some CPU intensive programs and watch if the frequency displayed changes. I've got the XFCE panel applet CPU Graph that never shows much of any cpu usage. and the cli program top which will show 99.9% cpu busy when I'm running meld on a pair of 500K line files (which seems very excessive unless meld is multi-threaded). That means meld is using one core 99.9%. A parallel program should show the program on several lines with CPU utilization anywhere between 0 and 100%. My compute-bound single-threaded scripts cause the CPU frequency to increase to maximum on my quad-core i7: 2021-12-01 17:48:27 root@tinkywinky ~ # cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; cpufreq-info -p 9.13 Linux tinkywinky 4.9.0-16-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.272-2 (2021-07-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux 80 330 powersave Mine says: # cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; cpufreq-info -p 11.1 Linux spot 5.10.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.70-1 (2021-09-30) x86_64 GNU/Linux 80 410 powersave
Re: using intel i5 freqency governors
How do I get the intel cpu "turbo boost" fully engaged when I'm running my script and go back into power save mode when the machine is idle? >> >> That should be the default behavior (i.e. if you don't touch any cpu >> power configuration). > > Unfortunately, it clearly is _not_ the behavior I get. .. and I > hadn't touched any power config until I was trying things to get my > 900 second execution time down around the 600 seconds it takes on the > windows/cygwin machine. You might want to try and figure out why you get `powersave` as default governor, but until you've figured it out, you might like to force the use of the `schedutil` governor instead which should give you the same kind of speed as the `performance` governor under load while reverting to low-power state afterwards. Stefan
Re: why i can't download debian-live-10.11.0-i386-gnome.iso?
Thank Keith and David! Sorry, i've not been able to receive replies from both of you on time because of mail service problem
Re: using intel i5 freqency governors
On 12/2/21, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> The short story is that I have an Intel i3 windows 10 desktop with >>> cygwin installed and an Intel i5 debian desktop. > > [ Side note: terms like `i3` and `i5` are basically marketing names > equivalent to "cheap" and "average price". They do not correspond to > any specific set of features nor any specific performance level, so > they're of no technical relevance other than saying something like "an > intel CPU from ≥2009 with an amd64 instruction set". ] I found this site that compares the two cpus I have https://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/414/Intel_Core_i3_i3-7100_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-9400.html >>> How do I get the intel cpu "turbo boost" fully engaged when I'm >>> running my script and go back into power save mode when the machine is >>> idle? > > That should be the default behavior (i.e. if you don't touch any cpu > power configuration). Unfortunately, it clearly is _not_ the behavior I get. .. and I hadn't touched any power config until I was trying things to get my 900 second execution time down around the 600 seconds it takes on the windows/cygwin machine. > In that case, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor > should usually say `schedutil` nowadays AFAIK (which has replaced the > previous default of `ondemand`). hrmm... I get $ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor powersave $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance Setting cpu: 0 Setting cpu: 1 Setting cpu: 2 Setting cpu: 3 Setting cpu: 4 Setting cpu: 5 $ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor performance Lee
Re: why i can't download debian-live-10.11.0-i386-gnome.iso?
Thank Dan and Stefan! file system is ext3, it has no 2G limit IMO i've installed curl, it doesn't have such bug
Re: using intel i5 freqency governors
Hi, On 12/1/21, David Christensen wrote: > On 12/1/21 8:58 AM, Lee wrote: >> The short story is that I have an Intel i3 windows 10 desktop with >> cygwin installed and an Intel i5 debian desktop. One of my scripts >> takes about 10 minutes to run on the windows/i3 and 15 minutes on the >> debian/i5! ick >> >> if i do >> $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance >> >> then it takes about 10 minutes to run the script on the i5, **but** >> the cpu frequency never drops down to power-saving mode when the >> machine is idle - eg >> $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | grep 'call to kernel' >>current CPU frequency: 3.99 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>current CPU frequency: 3.95 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>current CPU frequency: 4.01 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>current CPU frequency: 3.91 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>current CPU frequency: 3.96 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>current CPU frequency: 4.00 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >> >> and more annoying, setting the frequency governor back to powersave >> doesn't seem to drop the frequency all that much >> >> $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g powersave >> Setting cpu: 0 >> Setting cpu: 1 >> Setting cpu: 2 >> Setting cpu: 3 >> Setting cpu: 4 >> Setting cpu: 5 >> >> $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | egrep 'call to kernel|The >> governor' >>The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use >>current CPU frequency: 3.85 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use >>current CPU frequency: 3.58 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use >>current CPU frequency: 4.01 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use >>current CPU frequency: 3.55 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use >>current CPU frequency: 3.66 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >>The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use >>current CPU frequency: 3.57 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) >> >> >> How do I get the intel cpu "turbo boost" fully engaged when I'm >> running my script and go back into power save mode when the machine is >> idle? >> >> Thanks >> Lee > > > Which i3? Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-7100 CPU @ 3.90GHz > i5? Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-9400 CPU @ 2.90GHz There's an 'Operating frequency' graph at https://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/414/Intel_Core_i3_i3-7100_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-9400.html comparing the i3 to the i5. It looks like they should be roughly even .. which they seem to be if I do the sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance before running the script. But then I do sudo cpupower frequency-set -g powersave after the script completes and the machine doesn't drop down to much of a lower frequency when it's idle:( I had to reboot to get the cpu frequency down around 800Mhz again. > Debian? Linux? Debian 11 .. which is linux - yes? > I assume your script is single-threaded (?). You assume correctly :) > I am unfamiliar with 'cpupower'. I use cpufreq-set(1) to set the > governor and the Xfce panel applet "CPU Frequency Monitor" to monitor > the CPU frequency and/or governor. The CPU Frequency Monitor applet seems to work only if you're root :( I added it to my xfce panel and it just says 0.80Ghz -- which matches what I get running cpupower as a lowly user: $ cpupower -c all frequency-info | grep 'call to kernel' current CPU frequency: 800 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 800 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 800 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 800 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 800 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 800 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) lee@spot ~ $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | grep 'call to kernel' [sudo] password for lee: current CPU frequency: 3.50 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 810 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 947 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.13 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 1.52 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 992 MHz (asserted by call to kernel) I've got the XFCE panel applet CPU Graph that never shows much of any cpu usage. and the cli program top which will show 99.9% cpu busy when I'm running meld on a pair of 500K line files (which seems very excessive unless meld is multi-threaded). > My compute-bound single-threaded scripts cause the CPU frequency to > increase to maximum on my quad-core i7: > > 2021-12-01 17:48:27 root@tinkywinky ~ > # cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; cpufreq-info -p > 9.13 > Linux tinkywinky 4.9.0-16-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.272-2
Re: using intel i5 freqency governors
On Wed, Dec 1, 2021, 8:06 PM David Christensen wrote: > . > But, the best answer is to rewrite your script as a parallel program. > The challenge is: what programming language? Shells can do simple > parallelism via background tasks, if you can break up your script > suitably. I have been beating my head against multi-threaded Perl for > several years, but I do not recommend it. If you want a recent > programming language designed for parallel programming, an obvious > choice is Go. Erlang is older, very robust, and adds distributed You can save yourself some trouble by using a parallel or distributed shell. The two that come to mind are pdksh and IBM's distributed shell dsh. Then you can write shell scripts in more familiar ways that are concurrent without learning a new language or environment. > David > >
Re: Emoji fonts in Debian [WAS:] Re: How to NOT automatically mount a specific partition of an external device?
On Tue 30 Nov 2021 at 10:47:07 (+), Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 11:54:16AM -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > eagerly leaving behind the originally all-text form of e-mail > > Unicode *is* text, as far as I'm concerned. I don't see the point in > limiting what I write to a 7-bit namespace from the 1960s, even if I am > fortunate enough that my chosen names are representable in it. I agree. It's almost as important that people read, or can switch to, a fixed width font when reading technical lists like this one. > > in favour of graphics that are gleefully being used to highlight them. > > My signature includes an emoji which is configured to be a reasonable > approximation of my appearance. … bearing in mind that what we see depends on the fonts we have installed. Until Sunday, your emoji had the bouffant/flip of Mary Tyler Moore, but then she got older and lost the flip. If I reverse the colours of the latter, it becomes more like a mop with a parting, say John Lennon before he grew it long. As for the firefox version, it manages to combine them, but throws the emphasis onto the face, and just looks like a mischievous kid's cartoon character. Cheers, David.
Re: why i can't download debian-live-10.11.0-i386-gnome.iso?
On Wed 01 Dec 2021 at 20:26:19 (-0500), lou wrote: > http://ftp.sunet.se/cdimage/archive/10.11.0-live/i386/iso-hybrid/ > > i use wget to download, length is 2G though ftp.sunet.se shows 2.6G > > ftp.funet.fi has same problem, live gnome image is more than 2G, i > can't get it with wget > > http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/Linux/mirrors/debian-cdimage/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/ Are you downloading to a FAT16 filesystem, maximum file size 2GB. Cheers, David.
Re: why i can't download debian-live-10.11.0-i386-gnome.iso?
lou wrote: > http://ftp.sunet.se/cdimage/archive/10.11.0-live/i386/iso-hybrid/ > > i use wget to download, length is 2G though ftp.sunet.se shows 2.6G > > ftp.funet.fi has same problem, live gnome image is more than 2G, i can't get > it with wget > > http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/Linux/mirrors/debian-cdimage/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/ What filesystem are you downloading this image to? Is it a filesystem with a maximum file size of 2GB? -dsr-
Re: why i can't download debian-live-10.11.0-i386-gnome.iso?
On 2/12/21 12:26, lou wrote: http://ftp.sunet.se/cdimage/archive/10.11.0-live/i386/iso-hybrid/ i use wget to download, length is 2G though ftp.sunet.se shows 2.6G ftp.funet.fi has same problem, live gnome image is more than 2G, i can't get it with wget http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/Linux/mirrors/debian-cdimage/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/ Good afternoon lou I often download files larger than 2G with wget Have you tried the debian download site? All the best Keith Bainbridge kkeithrbaugro...@gmail.com
Re: stability level of testing
On 11/30/21 11:28 PM, daggs wrote: Greetings, I'm thinking of migrating my main server to Debian, I need stability and recent version of small number of pkgs. in addition I need to recompile with a out of tree patch. I had Debian stable before but replaced it because upgrade broke the system and the versions used for the mentioned above set of pkgs were too old for what I need. I know that Testing has more recent pkgs version but I don't know how stable is it. any info will be appreciate. Thanks, Dagg. On 12/1/21 12:55 PM, daggs wrote: > there will be 2 main facing the Internet connection, server's upgrade and the router vm. > the rest is internal What version of Debian are you running? What Debian packages? What hypervisor? Is the service in a VM? Are all of the other services in VM's? What service? What are you recompiling? What is the patch? What router software? David
Re: using intel i5 freqency governors
On 12/1/21 8:58 AM, Lee wrote: The short story is that I have an Intel i3 windows 10 desktop with cygwin installed and an Intel i5 debian desktop. One of my scripts takes about 10 minutes to run on the windows/i3 and 15 minutes on the debian/i5! ick if i do $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance then it takes about 10 minutes to run the script on the i5, **but** the cpu frequency never drops down to power-saving mode when the machine is idle - eg $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | grep 'call to kernel' current CPU frequency: 3.99 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.95 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 4.01 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.91 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.96 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 4.00 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) and more annoying, setting the frequency governor back to powersave doesn't seem to drop the frequency all that much $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g powersave Setting cpu: 0 Setting cpu: 1 Setting cpu: 2 Setting cpu: 3 Setting cpu: 4 Setting cpu: 5 $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | egrep 'call to kernel|The governor' The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.85 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.58 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 4.01 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.55 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.66 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.57 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) How do I get the intel cpu "turbo boost" fully engaged when I'm running my script and go back into power save mode when the machine is idle? Thanks Lee Which i3? i5? Debian? Linux? I assume your script is single-threaded (?). I am unfamiliar with 'cpupower'. I use cpufreq-set(1) to set the governor and the Xfce panel applet "CPU Frequency Monitor" to monitor the CPU frequency and/or governor. The latter tool lets me choose a specific core, minimum, average, or maximum frequency. My compute-bound single-threaded scripts cause the CPU frequency to increase to maximum on my quad-core i7: 2021-12-01 17:48:27 root@tinkywinky ~ # cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; cpufreq-info -p 9.13 Linux tinkywinky 4.9.0-16-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.272-2 (2021-07-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux 80 330 powersave Perhaps your governor is somehow broken? But, the best answer is to rewrite your script as a parallel program. The challenge is: what programming language? Shells can do simple parallelism via background tasks, if you can break up your script suitably. I have been beating my head against multi-threaded Perl for several years, but I do not recommend it. If you want a recent programming language designed for parallel programming, an obvious choice is Go. Erlang is older, very robust, and adds distributed programming, but the syntax is very different (Prolog based). I attempted Clojure, but never got off the ground. There are other choices. David
why i can't download debian-live-10.11.0-i386-gnome.iso?
http://ftp.sunet.se/cdimage/archive/10.11.0-live/i386/iso-hybrid/ i use wget to download, length is 2G though ftp.sunet.se shows 2.6G ftp.funet.fi has same problem, live gnome image is more than 2G, i can't get it with wget http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/Linux/mirrors/debian-cdimage/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/
Re: using intel i5 freqency governors
those powermanagement things are always broken.
Re: stability level of testing
On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 22:51:08 +0100
Christian Britz wrote:
> Current Debian stable 11 ("Bullseye") has not so old software and good
> security support, consider using it for a server. You can search for
> software versions using packages.debian.org
Also, should you find you need more a recent version of something than
the Bullseye version, you might find it in backports.
And you can, Murphy help you, go from stable (Bullseye) to Testing. But
I suggest that only as a last, desperate, resort.
--
Does anybody read signatures any more?
https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: stability level of testing
On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:28:16 +0100 daggs wrote: > in addition I need to recompile with a out of tree patch. You need to recompile what with an out-of-tree patch? -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode
Joe wrote: > measure. If grub is installed correctly, both OSes should appear on its > menu. IIRC, you have to install package os-prober to achieve that.
Re: stability level of testing
Hello daggs,
daggs wrote:
> there will be 2 main facing the Internet connection, server's upgrade and the
> router vm.
> the rest is internal
Routing other computers to the internet, firewalling and so on? I
personally would not do this with the testing distribution, remember, it
has no timely security support.
Current Debian stable 11 ("Bullseye") has not so old software and good
security support, consider using it for a server. You can search for
software versions using packages.debian.org
Good luck,
Christian
Re: Emoji fonts in Debian [WAS:] Re: How to NOT automatically mount a specific partition of an external device?
On 2021-12-01, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > Speaking of colour, I work at Red Hat and I have had (U+1F3A9 TOP > HAT) as the shell prompt character for the main RHEL virtual machine I > use for work. At that time, my terminal did not support colour glyphs, > and the font that was used to render that happened to use the Fedora > fedora for that glyph, and I coloured it red using terminal colour > escape codes. Later, IBM bought Red Hat. And at a similar time, I > updated my (Debian) system and gained the ability to display coloured > glyphs. The chosen font to supply that glyph was changed, and my > red-coloured monochrome hat became a blue one. Spooky. For what it's worth, I read this list in slrn via Usenet (linux.debian.user). The "top hat" glyph you include above shows up as a two-character-wide box with tiny hex numbers in it, like this: .---. |01F| |3A9| `---' I'm running Buster on a Lenovo T410. My primary interest in UTF-8 is to display characters with various diacritical marks, which it handles quite well. On the other hand, while composing this reply in Thunderbird, the top hat showed up. BTW at the start of your signature lines I see the following: .---. |01F|01F| |471|3FB| `---' (pencil) .---. |01F| |517| `---' Note: those hex characters are _really_ tiny - even with a magnifying glass I might have misread some of them. In Thunderbird they come out as a blond-haired smiley face with light-coloured skin, a pencil, and a couple of links of chain. I guess Thunderbird's UTF-8 support is quite good. > (This whole thing reminded me of a sub-project I have on the > backburner to map the Debian swirl to a spare unicode code-point; > or, to U+F000 in the private use area, where Apple systems display > the Apple logo. I got as far as importing the swirl graphic into a > OTF format font. I should pick it up!) Fun. >> Again, my apologies. > > No problem. Thank you, Glad I could smooth the waters. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse. \ /| It can be beautiful - X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't. / \ if you read it the right way. |-- Lily Tomlin
Re: stability level of testing
Greetings Christian, > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2021 at 10:00 AM > From: "Christian Britz" > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: stability level of testing > > daggs wrote: > > I'm thinking of migrating my main server to Debian, I need stability and > > recent version of small number of pkgs. > > in addition I need to recompile with a out of tree patch. > > I had Debian stable before but replaced it because upgrade broke the system > > and the versions used for the mentioned above set of pkgs were too old for > > what I need. > > I know that Testing has more recent pkgs version but I don't know how > > stable is it. > > Don't do it for a server facing the Internet. Testing does not have > timely security support by concept. > > Also by concept, it is of course not stable in the sense of Debian > stable distribution, it is more like a rolling release distribution. > > On my desktop, I currently use the testing distribution, but I install > Internet facing applications like browser and mail directly from the > vendor, not from Debian's repository. For example, Firefox and Chromium > often get security patches very late in Debian testing. > > there will be 2 main facing the Internet connection, server's upgrade and the router vm. the rest is internal Dagg.
Re: Thunderbird en firefox-esr
mj schreef: > Ik had het idee dat interlink gebaseerd was op een snapshot-in-time van > thunderbird, en dat die snapshot verder ontwikkeld wordt. Klopt dat? Zo goed ben ik niet op de hoogte. Ik kwam Interlink tegen toen ik zocht op 'thunderbird alternatives linux'.
Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode
Hi, fran...@libero.it wrote: > > Now looking at it with Gparted the HD is divided as follows: > > ... > > dev / sda5 grub2 core.img 1.00 MiB Joe wrote: > I've never seen a 'grub2 core.img' before. Maybe someone else knows > what this is. Probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS_boot_partition Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode
On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 18:18:48 +0100 (CET) fran...@libero.it wrote: > I have installed Debian 11 on a Dell T1650 Desktop PC (i7 & 24 GB > RAM). > > I resized the 1GB HD leaving 300MB on which I installed Debian. 1TB? 300GB? > > At the request of the installation of Grub I indicated the HD. > > Now looking at it with Gparted the HD is divided as follows: > dev / sda1 EFI system partition (fat32) 100 MiB > dev / sda2 Microsoft reserved Partition (unknown) 16MiB > dev / sda3 Basic data partition (ntfs)629.28 GiB > dev / sda5 grub2 core.img 1.00 MiB > dev / sda6 ext4 > 27.94 GiB dev / sda7 linux-swap > 977.00 MiB dev / sda8 ext4 > 272.71 GiB dev / sda4 ntfs > 520.00 MiB not allocated not allocated > 1.71 MiB What would be better to do to get Grub > up and running? I've never seen a 'grub2 core.img' before. Maybe someone else knows what this is. I would expect the grub loader to have installed in the /dev/sda bootloader area, with the main part in /boot. > > Can I do something to be able to boot on 2 OS (Windows 10 & Debian 11) Not sure. It is certainly possible to dual-boot Win10 with Debian, I have a recent sid installation which does that with no problems. Whether you can get there from where you are, and how correct the Dell UEFI implementation is, we don't know yet. > > Or do I have to make use of rEFInd? Shouldn't need to. At the very worst, you should be able to boot either from the computer firmware boot menu, but that should only need to be a temporary measure. If grub is installed correctly, both OSes should appear on its menu. > > The boot is in UEFI mode. Stretch could install in a Win10 dual-boot in UEFI mode fine, so that shouldn't be a problem today. It Just Worked. > > What happens when you boot now? Do you get a grub menu? Does the computer boot straight into Windows? Does it not boot at all? UEFI complicates things, since I have two computers using it and neither of the implementations is correct, in both cases my choice of default UEFI boot drive gets overridden by the firmware. But that shouldn't stop grub dual-booting properly. -- Joe
Re: need help on setup netgear adapter
On Wed, Dec 01, 2021 at 10:35:49AM +, Long Wind wrote: > Thank Andy! i've just installed bullseye again, and can't get it to work with > netgear wn111. its problem is same as fresh install of buster. actually i've > complained this before: if wifi adapter isn't set up by installer, then i'm > unable to get it to work after installation > > i always use same procedure to get connected: edit /etc/network/interfaces, > then run ifup/ifdown to take effect, i'm not aware of network manager > > allow-hotplug wlxe091f5061648 > iface wlxe091f5061648 inet dhcp > wpa-ssid mice > wpa-key-mgmt NONE > > my old bullseye works, ifup looks like this: > > Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client 4.4.1 > Copyright 2004-2018 Internet Systems Consortium. > All rights reserved. > For info, please visit https://www.isc.org/software/dhcp/ > > Listening on LPF/wlxe091f5061648/e0:91:f5:06:16:48 > Sending on LPF/wlxe091f5061648/e0:91:f5:06:16:48 > Sending on Socket/fallback > DHCPDISCOVER on wlxe091f5061648 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 5 > DHCPDISCOVER on wlxe091f5061648 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 5 > DHCPOFFER of 192.168.41.52 from 192.168.41.1 > DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.41.52 on wlxe091f5061648 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 > DHCPACK of 192.168.41.52 from 192.168.41.1 > bound to 192.168.41.52 -- renewal in 676 seconds. > Are you using the unofficial non-free including firmware .iso to install from? I'd suggest starting there: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso If you can install via Ethernet before using the wireless interface, I would suggest that you do so. I would also suggest installing the network manager package to configure the network interface. I find that nmtui is very useful. All the very best, as ever, Andy Cater > > > >
Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode
Whats the exact problem? GRUB does not show up and Windows boots directly? You could try the rescue mode of the installer to reinstall GRUB, reFind is normally not needed on a PC system to dual boot with Windows. Once you get GRUB up and running, you should consider installing the package os-prober. update-grub will then add the Windows system to the GRUB menu. Even in Windows 10 days, updates can overwrite GRUB from time to time, so you should keep a copy of the Debian installer media for fixing this when needed.
Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode
I have installed Debian 11 on a Dell T1650 Desktop PC (i7 & 24 GB RAM). I resized the 1GB HD leaving 300MB on which I installed Debian. At the request of the installation of Grub I indicated the HD. Now looking at it with Gparted the HD is divided as follows: dev / sda1 EFI system partition (fat32) 100 MiB dev / sda2 Microsoft reserved Partition (unknown) 16MiB dev / sda3 Basic data partition (ntfs)629.28 GiB dev / sda5 grub2 core.img 1.00 MiB dev / sda6 ext4 27.94 GiB dev / sda7 linux-swap 977.00 MiB dev / sda8 ext4 272.71 GiB dev / sda4 ntfs520.00 MiB not allocated not allocated 1.71 MiB What would be better to do to get Grub up and running? Can I do something to be able to boot on 2 OS (Windows 10 & Debian 11) Or do I have to make use of rEFInd? The boot is in UEFI mode. Thanks for help Francesco
using intel i5 freqency governors
The short story is that I have an Intel i3 windows 10 desktop with cygwin installed and an Intel i5 debian desktop. One of my scripts takes about 10 minutes to run on the windows/i3 and 15 minutes on the debian/i5! ick if i do $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance then it takes about 10 minutes to run the script on the i5, **but** the cpu frequency never drops down to power-saving mode when the machine is idle - eg $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | grep 'call to kernel' current CPU frequency: 3.99 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.95 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 4.01 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.91 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 3.96 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) current CPU frequency: 4.00 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) and more annoying, setting the frequency governor back to powersave doesn't seem to drop the frequency all that much $ sudo cpupower frequency-set -g powersave Setting cpu: 0 Setting cpu: 1 Setting cpu: 2 Setting cpu: 3 Setting cpu: 4 Setting cpu: 5 $ sudo cpupower -c all frequency-info | egrep 'call to kernel|The governor' The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.85 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.58 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 4.01 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.55 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.66 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use current CPU frequency: 3.57 GHz (asserted by call to kernel) How do I get the intel cpu "turbo boost" fully engaged when I'm running my script and go back into power save mode when the machine is idle? Thanks Lee
Re: Avoid rebooting server to gain back RS232 connection
On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 07:10:49 -0700
Charles Curley wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 09:14:11 +0100
> john doe wrote:
>
> > I'm using a RS232 cable to connect to a server everything is
> > properly set up and works fine.
> > For some reasons I lost the connection to my server that is I can
> > not control the server using serial console.
>
> ...
>
> >
> > In other words, how can I reconnect when the cable has been
> > disconnected
>
> The first thing I would do is find out why your cable is being
> disconnected, and see to it that it does not happen again.
>
> But why RS-232? Why not SSH over Internet Protocol (IP)? If it's a
> server, it should have some sort of networking.
>
>
Original information is indeed scarce. The OP mentions using a serial
console, but that may have been for troubleshooting, and we do not know
if the console is the usual client.
Many proper servers have at least an option of an RS-232 connection
into the BIOS or equivalent, allowing remote control of BIOS parameters
and rebooting when necessary. It's an unfitted option on my HP
microserver. Many UPS devices have an RS-232 connection to a server to
notify of loss of mains, low battery etc. SSH would not normally be an
alternative for these functions.
Serial may be ancient, but it still has its uses, particularly with
PIC/Arduino-level home-made peripherals. Not every job requires a
Raspberry Pi. As it happens, one of the functions of my home server is
to record outside temperatures from a radio link. That's done with
RS-232 (more accurately, RS-485 simplex, there is little genuine 25-pin
RS-232/V24 hardware around now) because that's what the radio module
provides, and indeed, what the original temperature sensor produces.
I'd agree, the ideal solution would be to fix the disconnections, but
troubleshooting the occasional drop of a serial link is not a trivial
matter. One assumes the receiver is resetting for some reason, as
asynchronous serial ('RS-232') doesn't actually have the concept of
'connection', and if the signal is lost or temporarily corrupted, will
just pick up again when valid signals resume and the receiver can
re-sync. It should be possible to literally pull the plug out of an
async serial stream, replug it and have the stream recover after a
couple of failed re-syncs. This is clearly not happening here.
--
Joe
Re: Avoid rebooting server to gain back RS232 connection
On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 09:14:11 +0100 john doe wrote: > I'm using a RS232 cable to connect to a server everything is properly > set up and works fine. > For some reasons I lost the connection to my server that is I can not > control the server using serial console. ... > > In other words, how can I reconnect when the cable has been > disconnected The first thing I would do is find out why your cable is being disconnected, and see to it that it does not happen again. But why RS-232? Why not SSH over Internet Protocol (IP)? If it's a server, it should have some sort of networking. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Thunderbird en firefox-esr
Hoi, Op 01-12-2021 om 12:30 schreef Sjoerd Hiemstra: Ik ken Interlink. Dat is gebaseerd op een oudere versie van Thunderbird (versie 52) met een aantal toegevoegde verbeteringen. https://binaryoutcast.com/projects/interlink/ Add-ons, die het in de huidige Thunderbird niet meer doen, zoals de Dorando keyconfig, doen het hier nog wel. (Ook dit bericht verstuurd met Interlink.) Ik heb daar ooit ook over gelezen ja. Ik had het idee dat interlink gebaseerd was op een snapshot-in-time van thunderbird, en dat die snapshot verder ontwikkeld wordt. Klopt dat? Ik nam aan dat daardoor nieuwe ontwikkelingen in thunderbird niet in interlink terecht komen. Dat is dan wel weer jammr... Ik vind thunderbird qua GUI de laatste tijd gelukkig wel weer een beetje in beweging. Pluspunt is dat daardoor oude addons het in interlink natuurlijk wel gewoon bijven doen.
Re: Thunderbird en firefox-esr
mj schreef: > Het grote voordeel dat wij zien aan thunderbird is dat het > cross-platform en open source is. Als je een alternatief vindt met > diezelfde eigenschappen, hou ons [ = de lijst] dan vooral op de hoogte. > > Ik heb regelmatig gezocht, maar vind eigenlijk niet echt een goed > alternatief. Ik ken Interlink. Dat is gebaseerd op een oudere versie van Thunderbird (versie 52) met een aantal toegevoegde verbeteringen. https://binaryoutcast.com/projects/interlink/ Add-ons, die het in de huidige Thunderbird niet meer doen, zoals de Dorando keyconfig, doen het hier nog wel. (Ook dit bericht verstuurd met Interlink.)
Re: Thunderbird en firefox-esr
Op 01-12-2021 om 09:27 schreef mj: Op 30-11-2021 om 11:28 schreef Paul van der Vlis: Zelf vind ik Thunderbird toch prettiger, vooral omdat ik er aan gewend ben. Maar ik heb wat stabiliteitsproblemen met Thunderbird die ik maar niet opgelost krijg, vandaar dat ik alternatieven goed in de gaten hou. En misschien zelfs ga overstappen. Het grote voordeel dat wij zien aan thunderbird is dat het cross-platform en open source is. Als je een alternatief vindt met diezelfde eigenschappen, hou ons [ = de lijst] dan vooral op de hoogte. Ik heb regelmatig gezocht, maar vind eigenlijk niet echt een goed alternatief. Ik heb overigens geen stabiliteitsproblemen met thunderbird. Mijn klanten en bekenden ook niet. Alleen ikzelf heb dit probleem. Richard hoorde ik ook weleens over instabiliteit. Wat ik ervaar is dat Thunderbird regelmatig voor enkele seconden bevriest. Ik heb alles al eens opnieuw geïnstalleerd, veel werk. Maar ik moet het misschien nog maar een keer gaan doen. Als ik Thunderbird laat loggen zie ik steeds deze melding na het ontwaken uit bevroren toestand: - console.log: Calendar: [CalSleepMonitor] Sleep cycle detected, notifying observers. - En dat doet hij ook zonder agenda. Je zou onderdelen willen kunnen uitschakelen, zoals toen de agenda nog een plugin was. Je zou preciezer willen weten wat hij op de achtergrond doet. Groet, Paul -- Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen https://www.vandervlis.nl/
Re: Avoid rebooting server to gain back RS232 connection
john doe wrote: > I'm using a RS232 cable to connect to a server everything is properly > set up and works fine. > For some reasons I lost the connection to my server that is I can not > control the server using serial console. > If I reboot that server I can once again manage that server using serial > console. > > Is there a way to get back the connection without having to reboot the > server? > > In other words, how can I reconnect when the cable has been disconnected Above you say for some reason and now you say cable was disconnected. If it is a straight forward RS232 on the mainboard of the server and you are using something like minicom, you just need to reconnect to the device (after attaching the cable). If you have an issue with that, you need to debug what is going on. IF you have the rs232 serial as module, you can try SSH to the server and rmmod/insmod or modprobe ... but if you could SSH why would you RS232 to the server? Anyway ... based on the scare information, this is the only thing that came into my mind. BR -- FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
Re: need help on setup netgear adapter
On Wed, Dec 01, 2021 at 05:20:02AM +, Long Wind wrote: > Thank Andrew! > i've been able to get stretch and bullseye to work with netgear wn111 > both have installed other wifi adapter with non-freeware before > but i can't get fresh install of buster to work > buster has /lib/firmware/carl9170-1.fw > i run ifup wlx... : > > Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client 4.4.1 > Copyright 2004-2018 Internet Systems Consortium. > All rights reserved. > For info, please visit https://www.isc.org/software/dhcp/ > > Listening on LPF/wlxe091f5061648/e0:91:f5:06:16:48 > Sending on LPF/wlxe091f5061648/e0:91:f5:06:16:48 > Sending on Socket/fallback > DHCPDISCOVER on wlxe091f5061648 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 4 > DHCPDISCOVER on wlxe091f5061648 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 11 > DHCPDISCOVER on wlxe091f5061648 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 21 > DHCPDISCOVER on wlxe091f5061648 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 15 > DHCPDISCOVER on wlxe091f5061648 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 10 > No DHCPOFFERS received. > No working leases in persistent database - sleeping. > > Unless you absolutely postitively have to use buster at this point: if you have it working under Bullseye - Debian 11 - use bullseye on this system. This is an _old_ adapter 2013-2015, I think? and may not be as capable as newer hardware, but in this case I think there is soemthing else? If you plug it into a bullseye machine and do the same, what do you see? In any event, use the most up to date software that works. All the very best, as ever, Andy Cater > >
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Re: How to NOT automatically mount a specific partition of an external device?
Le 01-12-2021, à 09:26:00 +0100, l0f...@tuta.io a écrit : Hi, Hi, nice to see someone not hijacking my thread :) It seems like /etc/fstab in not read when plugging in the device. I know you've solved your issue with another way but, just out of curiosity, could the following command help your system to read your modified /etc/fstab file? systemctl daemon-reload Honestly I don't know, I think I issued that command before finding the solution, but I'm not sure. I think I rebooted the system so that command most probably was executed without effect.
Re: Thunderbird en firefox-esr
Op 30-11-2021 om 11:28 schreef Paul van der Vlis: Zelf vind ik Thunderbird toch prettiger, vooral omdat ik er aan gewend ben. Maar ik heb wat stabiliteitsproblemen met Thunderbird die ik maar niet opgelost krijg, vandaar dat ik alternatieven goed in de gaten hou. En misschien zelfs ga overstappen. Het grote voordeel dat wij zien aan thunderbird is dat het cross-platform en open source is. Als je een alternatief vindt met diezelfde eigenschappen, hou ons [ = de lijst] dan vooral op de hoogte. Ik heb regelmatig gezocht, maar vind eigenlijk niet echt een goed alternatief. Ik heb overigens geen stabiliteitsproblemen met thunderbird. MJ
Re: Non-working CPU cores showing up
hey, you're right! free upgrade :) K On Tuesday, November 30, 2021, Dirk Neumann wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 08:52:59 -0800 > Ken Cunningham wrote: > > > > > > Some software, like ninja etc, use that information to decide how many > parallel jobs to set up. On my systems (2 processors, 6 CPUs on each, each > with two threads per core = 12 parallel build processes) that works out > well it seems. > > I would have expected 24 parallel build processes on your machine > > >
Re: How to NOT automatically mount a specific partition of an external device?
Hi, 25 nov. 2021, 09:28 de dl...@bluewin.ch: > Le 24-11-2021, à 20:29:19 +1100, Keith Bainbridge a écrit : > >> I use a line in /etc/fstab like this for just this purpose: >> >> UUID= /mount/point/you/want ext4defaults,noexec,noauto 0 >> 2 >> > > Well, the partition still mounts to /media/steve/Samsung_T5 when plugged in. > I put this in /etc/fstab: > > UUID="ACDE12A6DE1268BA" /media/win_ext vfat defaults,noexec,noauto 0 2 > > The logs say: > > Nov 25 09:20:30 box ntfs-3g[1133900]: Version 2017.3.23AR.3 integrated FUSE 28 > Nov 25 09:20:30 box ntfs-3g[1133900]: Mounted /dev/sda1 (Read-Write, label > "Samsung_T5", NTFS 3.1) > Nov 25 09:20:30 box udisksd[1098]: Mounted /dev/sda1 at > /media/steve/Samsung_T5 on behalf of uid 1000 > Nov 25 09:20:30 box ntfs-3g[1133900]: Cmdline options: > rw,nodev,nosuid,uid=1000,gid=1000,windows_names,uhelper=udisks2 > Nov 25 09:20:30 box ntfs-3g[1133900]: Mount options: > nodev,nosuid,uhelper=udisks2,allow_other,nonempty,relatime,rw,default_permissions,fsname=/dev/sda1,blkdev,blksize=4096 > Nov 25 09:20:30 box ntfs-3g[1133900]: Global ownership and permissions > enforced, configuration type 7 > > It seems like /etc/fstab in not read when plugging in the device. > I know you've solved your issue with another way but, just out of curiosity, could the following command help your system to read your modified /etc/fstab file? systemctl daemon-reload Sources: * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/477794/how-to-force-os-reload-of-fstab/577321 * https://www.systutorials.com/how-to-force-systemd-to-refresh-or-reloaded-a-changed-fstab-on-linux/ * https://www.suse.com/support/kb/doc/?id=18576 l0f4r0
Re: Emoji fonts in Debian [WAS:] Re: How to NOT automatically mount a specific partition of an external device?
On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 09:49:15PM -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote: My signature includes an emoji which is configured to be a reasonable approximation of my appearance. That does sound like fun, even though curmudgeons like me might consider it frivolous. I doubt I'll have a hardware/software combination that's capable of displaying all of it anytime soon - I still see tofu on my flip phone - but I'm not trying to stop anyone else from having harmless fun with it. I was a little surprised when this side-thread popped up, and I'd mentally filtered out my signature when reading my own mails. FWIW, the pencil and anchor render fine for me in my usual mail environment (mutt in a terminal), but the emoji person and the skin colour swatch are not combined. They are both individually rendered and in colour, so there's that. Perhaps one day I'll find that something has changed in the software stack and they become so! It does render properly via Firefox in the mailing list archives. Speaking of colour, I work at Red Hat and I have had (U+1F3A9 TOP HAT) as the shell prompt character for the main RHEL virtual machine I use for work. At that time, my terminal did not support colour glyphs, and the font that was used to render that happened to use the Fedora fedora for that glyph, and I coloured it red using terminal colour escape codes. Later, IBM bought Red Hat. And at a similar time, I updated my (Debian) system and gained the ability to display coloured glyphs. The chosen font to supply that glyph was changed, and my red-coloured monochrome hat became a blue one. Spooky. (This whole thing reminded me of a sub-project I have on the backburner to map the Debian swirl to a spare unicode code-point; or, to U+F000 in the private use area, where Apple systems display the Apple logo. I got as far as importing the swirl graphic into a OTF format font. I should pick it up!) Again, my apologies. No problem. Thank you, -- Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list. Jonathan Dowland ✎j...@debian.org https://jmtd.net
Avoid rebooting server to gain back RS232 connection
Debians, I'm using a RS232 cable to connect to a server everything is properly set up and works fine. For some reasons I lost the connection to my server that is I can not control the server using serial console. If I reboot that server I can once again manage that server using serial console. Is there a way to get back the connection without having to reboot the server? In other words, how can I reconnect when the cable has been disconnected Any feedback is welcome.. -- John Doe
Re: le changement de stable a oldstable bloque les mises a jour automatiques
Bonjour, 1 déc. 2021, 01:39 de hams...@suna.fdn.fr: > Le 29/11/2021 à 20:32, benoit szczygiel Z.Elec a écrit : > >> apt-get update --allow-releaseinfo-change >> > > Merci pour l'astuce : en effet, ca marche. > > Mais ca demande quand meme de taper la commande quand y'a un > "releaseinfo-change" et tant que cette commande n'est pas tapée, les mises a > jour de sécurité ne se font pas. > L'élément de configuration suivant ne peut-il pas aider ? Acquire::AllowReleaseInfoChange::Suite "true"; l0f4r0
Re: stability level of testing
daggs wrote: > I'm thinking of migrating my main server to Debian, I need stability and > recent version of small number of pkgs. > in addition I need to recompile with a out of tree patch. > I had Debian stable before but replaced it because upgrade broke the system > and the versions used for the mentioned above set of pkgs were too old for > what I need. > I know that Testing has more recent pkgs version but I don't know how stable > is it. Don't do it for a server facing the Internet. Testing does not have timely security support by concept. Also by concept, it is of course not stable in the sense of Debian stable distribution, it is more like a rolling release distribution. On my desktop, I currently use the testing distribution, but I install Internet facing applications like browser and mail directly from the vendor, not from Debian's repository. For example, Firefox and Chromium often get security patches very late in Debian testing.
