Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-12 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 12 April 2018 10:50:07 songbird wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > ... > > > Lots of other stuff that would be TL;DR for most here. > > i'm actually facinated by this level of knowledge and > wish i had such toys around for milling some rocks into > carvings so i wouldn't have to do it

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-12 Thread songbird
Gene Heskett wrote: ... > Lots of other stuff that would be TL;DR for most here. i'm actually facinated by this level of knowledge and wish i had such toys around for milling some rocks into carvings so i wouldn't have to do it by hand... good fodder for daydreaming. :) songbird

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-12 Thread rhkramer
Thanks! On Thursday, April 12, 2018 08:43:50 AM Gene Heskett wrote: > On Thursday 12 April 2018 07:44:39 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > On 2nd reading, I think the answer is yes, i.e., if I have a midi > > program making use of the / a real time kernel, it will have total > > control of the

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-12 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 12 April 2018 07:44:39 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 03:27:48 AM Gene Heskett wrote: > > What seems to be lost on you folks not running realtime patched > > kernels, is that when linuxcnc is running, it has total control over > > the hardware, and that linux

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-12 Thread rhkramer
On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 03:27:48 AM Gene Heskett wrote: > What seems to be lost on you folks not running realtime patched kernels, > is that when linuxcnc is running, it has total control over the > hardware, and that linux becomes a client of the realtime system, > getting what cpu time is

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-11 Thread David Christensen
On 04/11/18 00:27, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 10 April 2018 22:24:39 David Christensen wrote: Can you reproduce the bugs on a machine with straight-up Debian (e.g. no linuxcnc)? That to me would be rather pointless. The only places where I be doing wholesale edits would be for linuxcnc

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-11 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 10 April 2018 22:24:39 David Christensen wrote: > On 04/09/18 20:58, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday 09 April 2018 21:25:34 David Christensen wrote: > >> On 04/09/18 07:30, Gene Heskett wrote: > >>> On Monday 09 April 2018 09:51:37 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread David Christensen
On 04/09/18 20:58, Gene Heskett wrote: On Monday 09 April 2018 21:25:34 David Christensen wrote: On 04/09/18 07:30, Gene Heskett wrote: On Monday 09 April 2018 09:51:37 Greg Wooledge wrote: On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 09:46:07AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: To your original problem, have

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread Celejar
On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 05:53:18 -0400 Gene Heskett wrote: ... > What else is a good editor? And lets not start yet another vim vs emacs > war. kwrite and kate come to mind. I'm running Trinity Desktop, maybe I > should check them out. Whatever, needs to be able to have

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread Thomas Schmitt
Hi, Stefan Monnier wrote: > I see no indication *at all* from Gene's description that the problem > could have anything to do with the OS or the hardware. I don't think so either. But since the discussion began to cycle, i thought that it would be nice to have some tangible proof. If the script

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread Stefan Monnier
> Following is a bash script which challenges the disk's fidelity in > respect to small writes on a relatively small file over a long time. I see no indication *at all* from Gene's description that the problem could have anything to do with the OS or the hardware. My guess is rather that his

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread Thomas Schmitt
Hi, re-reading the original mail of Gene https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/04/msg00237.html i think it is time to collect some evidence. Following is a bash script which challenges the disk's fidelity in respect to small writes on a relatively small file over a long time. Gene, please

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread tomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 08:10:07AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Tuesday 10 April 2018 07:08:03 to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 06:49:54AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: [...] > No such clues were evident. Then I'd look for

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 10 April 2018 07:08:03 to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 06:49:54AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Tuesday 10 April 2018 03:52:55 to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > [...] > > > > The most typical symptom [of a failed write due to storage > > > failure] would be that the

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread tomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 06:49:54AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Tuesday 10 April 2018 03:52:55 to...@tuxteam.de wrote: [...] > > The most typical symptom [of a failed write due to storage > > failure] would be that the file system gets remounted

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 10 April 2018 03:52:55 to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 06:25:34PM -0700, David Christensen wrote: > > [...] > > > One editor failing would also make me suspect the editor. > > > > > > But two failing editors would make me suspect some common factor, > > such as a

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-10 Thread tomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 06:25:34PM -0700, David Christensen wrote: [...] > One editor failing would also make me suspect the editor. > > > But two failing editors would make me suspect some common factor, > such as a shared library and/or the

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Gene Heskett
On Monday 09 April 2018 21:25:34 David Christensen wrote: > On 04/09/18 07:30, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday 09 April 2018 09:51:37 Greg Wooledge wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 09:46:07AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com > >> > >> wrote: > >>> To your original problem, have you tried going to a

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread David Christensen
On 04/09/18 07:30, Gene Heskett wrote: On Monday 09 April 2018 09:51:37 Greg Wooledge wrote: On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 09:46:07AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: To your original problem, have you tried going to a command line and throwing in a couple =sync=s? I would try that, maybe after

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread songbird
Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 09 April 2018 06:18:18 songbird wrote: >> Gene Heskett wrote: >> > Greetings folks; >> > >> > Updodate Wheezy, realtime kernel because machine is running >> > linuxcnc. >> > >> > Editor is geany and file is left open in the editor, and reloaded >> > into linuxcnc as

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread tomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 10:13:21AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 09 April 2018 09:46:07 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: [...] > > To your original problem, have you tried going to a command line and > > throwing in a couple =sync=s? I would try

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Greg Wooledge
On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 10:30:58AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 09 April 2018 09:51:37 Greg Wooledge wrote: > > As others have explained, the OS (Linux) keeps a cache of file > > contents that have been written by applications, but not yet committed > > to permanent storage. If you

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Gene Heskett
On Monday 09 April 2018 09:51:37 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 09:46:07AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > To your original problem, have you tried going to a command line and > > throwing in a couple =sync=s? I would try that, maybe after saving > > in your editor, and

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Stefan Monnier
>> A big, rapidly blinking BLOCK cursor would help these old eyes find >> it a lot easier. But in 20 years thats fallen out of style, dammit. 100% idle state is important to reduce power consumption, so blinking while otherwise idle is to be avoided in general, yes. But it's OK to blink when

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Gene Heskett
On Monday 09 April 2018 09:46:07 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Monday, April 09, 2018 05:53:18 AM Gene Heskett wrote: > > What else is a good editor? And lets not start yet another vim vs > > emacs war. kwrite and kate come to mind. I'm running Trinity > > Desktop, maybe I should check them out.

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Gene Heskett
On Monday 09 April 2018 06:18:18 songbird wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > > Greetings folks; > > > > Updodate Wheezy, realtime kernel because machine is running > > linuxcnc. > > > > Editor is geany and file is left open in the editor, and reloaded > > into linuxcnc as changes are made to the

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Greg Wooledge
On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 09:46:07AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > To your original problem, have you tried going to a command line and throwing > in a couple =sync=s? I would try that, maybe after saving in your editor, > and > again maybe after open and / or saving in the cnc program. As

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread rhkramer
On Monday, April 09, 2018 05:53:18 AM Gene Heskett wrote: > What else is a good editor? And lets not start yet another vim vs emacs > war. kwrite and kate come to mind. I'm running Trinity Desktop, maybe I > should check them out. Whatever, needs to be able to have several files > open so I can

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Greg Wooledge
On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 09:32:14AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > A big, rapidly blinking > BLOCK cursor would help these old eyes find it a lot easier. But in 20 > years thats fallen out of style, dammit. The cursor is a function of the terminal, not of the text editor running inside the

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Gene Heskett
On Monday 09 April 2018 09:02:55 Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> So the actual disk isn't to blame (cat'ing a file that was just > >> saved won't look at the disk anyway). > > > > Whats it look at 5+ minutes later? > > Same difference: if `cat` can't see it, then the change hasn't been > received by

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Stefan Monnier
>> So the actual disk isn't to blame (cat'ing a file that was just saved >> won't look at the disk anyway). > Whats it look at 5+ minutes later? Same difference: if `cat` can't see it, then the change hasn't been received by the OS at all (even less so by the underlying disk). > The file had not

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread songbird
Gene Heskett wrote: > Greetings folks; > > Updodate Wheezy, realtime kernel because machine is running linuxcnc. > > Editor is geany and file is left open in the editor, and reloaded into > linuxcnc as changes are made to the file, and saved but not closed. > > And eventually the updates made to

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread tomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 05:53:18AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Sunday 08 April 2018 23:13:28 Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > >> > And eventually the updates made to the file are not actually > > >> > saved, > > >> > > >> Can you be more precise than

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-09 Thread Gene Heskett
On Sunday 08 April 2018 23:13:28 Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> > And eventually the updates made to the file are not actually > >> > saved, > >> > >> Can you be more precise than "eventually"? > > > > Probably 100+ edits and saves over 4 or 5 hours. > > > >> More importantly: what makes you think

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-08 Thread Stefan Monnier
>> > And eventually the updates made to the file are not actually saved, >> Can you be more precise than "eventually"? > Probably 100+ edits and saves over 4 or 5 hours. >> More importantly: what makes you think they're not actually saved? > Going to another shell and cat'ing the file shows the

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-08 Thread Gene Heskett
On Sunday 08 April 2018 22:17:33 Stefan Monnier wrote: > > And eventually the updates made to the file are not actually saved, > > Can you be more precise than "eventually"? Probably 100+ edits and saves over 4 or 5 hours. > More importantly: what makes you think they're not actually saved? > >

Re: SSD's and many edits of a single file

2018-04-08 Thread Stefan Monnier
> And eventually the updates made to the file are not actually saved, Can you be more precise than "eventually"? More importantly: what makes you think they're not actually saved? Stefan