Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-10-12 Thread Don Armstrong
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Kurt, my inclination was to consider this change as falling under Constitution §A.1.3 as a change that does not alter the meaning of the proposal. Since you don't actually need seconders under §4.2.1, and you are the proposer of the original

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-19 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 09:36:50AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote: Even better, now with attachments! There is yet another pronoun I have missed. Please find a patch attached. Applied (wording / punctuation fix), thanks! New current text is attached. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-19 Thread Secretary - Kurt Roeckx
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:40:07AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: I'm hereby introducing two changes: a) dropping the name Debian Contributor (attachment 0001-remove-the-term-Debian-Contributor.patch) b) fixing punctuation as suggested by Kumar Appaiah [1], thanks! (attachment

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-19 Thread Kumar Appaiah
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:07:04AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: Toni Mueller t...@debian.org writes: I am uncomfortable with this wording: * Active contributors of non-packaging work, which share Debian values s/which/who/, imho. Are any native speakers around? My opinion as a NSoE

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-19 Thread Lars Wirzenius
On su, 2010-09-19 at 11:33 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 09:36:50AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote: Even better, now with attachments! There is yet another pronoun I have missed. Please find a patch attached. Applied (wording / punctuation fix), thanks! New

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-19 Thread Alexander Reichle-Schmehl
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi! Am 19.09.2010 17:06, schrieb Lars Wirzenius: On su, 2010-09-19 at 11:33 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 09:36:50AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote: Even better, now with attachments! There is yet another pronoun I have

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-19 Thread Damien Raude-Morvan
Le dimanche 19 septembre 2010 11:33:24, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 09:36:50AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote: Even better, now with attachments! There is yet another pronoun I have missed. Please find a patch attached. Applied (wording / punctuation fix),

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-19 Thread Kumar Appaiah
Hi! On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 11:33:24AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end, the project benefits from various types of contributions, including, but not limited to: package maintenance, translations, infrastructure

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-19 Thread Enrico Zini
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 11:33:24AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end, the project benefits from various types of contributions, including, but not limited to: package maintenance, translations, infrastructure and

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-18 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 06:42:18PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: Kurt, my inclination was to consider this change as falling under Constitution §A.1.3 as a change that does not alter the meaning of the proposal. That would be A.1.6? Yes, totally, sorry for the typo. My question was basicly

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-18 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:40:07AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: I'm hereby introducing two changes: Even better, now with attachments! -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Quando

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-18 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:40:07AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: My question was basicly if you wanted to make that change at that time. My interpretation is that you didn't propose to change it at that time, but that you would do it at some later time. The question was which part

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-18 Thread Kumar Appaiah
Dear Zack, On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:56:32AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:40:07AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: I'm hereby introducing two changes: Even better, now with attachments! There is yet another pronoun I have missed. Please find a patch

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-18 Thread Toni Mueller
Hi, On Tue, 14.09.2010 at 17:53:46 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org wrote: in recent events I've attended as DPL, the topic of welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members has been a recurring one. Since it was also part of my platform and since DPL terms don't last

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-18 Thread Emilio Pozuelo Monfort
Hi, On 18/09/10 16:43, Toni Mueller wrote: On Tue, 14.09.2010 at 17:53:46 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org wrote: in recent events I've attended as DPL, the topic of welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members has been a recurring one. Since it was also part of my

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-18 Thread Toni Mueller
Hi, On Tue, 14.09.2010 at 17:53:46 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org wrote: in recent events I've attended as DPL, the topic of welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members has been a recurring one. Since it was also part of my platform and since DPL terms don't last

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-18 Thread Ben Finney
Toni Mueller t...@debian.org writes: I am uncomfortable with this wording: * Active contributors of non-packaging work, which share Debian values s/which/who/, imho. Are any native speakers around? My opinion as a NSoE matches yours on this point. -- \“Telling pious lies to

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-17 Thread Simon Richter
Hi, On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 06:52:02PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: In case these changes are regarded as more than editorial (which is your call, but I feel they are), the new proposal requires new seconds I'm not sure why you think the proposal requires seconds if it replaces an older

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-16 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:40:09PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: I'll let the patch linger for a couple of days -- actually, I'll be away for most part of tomorrow -- and then I'll apply it, posting a new complete draft here shortly thereafter. So I'm not considering this currently as an

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-16 Thread Simon Richter
Hi, On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:48:02PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: I like that a lot more than the other wording, thus seconded. Please don't go and make this more confusing for me. As far as I can tell this wasn't meant to be amendment yet. He will probably accept this or something

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-16 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 02:03:01PM +0100, Matthew Johnson a écrit : OTOH, if we pass a GR that looks like we'll give them upload rights (because it just says they are DDs) and then they aren't given upload rights some people might feel upset that they voted for it. Just because it's not

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-16 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:51:51PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: Stefano's DPL platform is actually quite clear on the subject: snip After seeing the results of this choice, it will always be possible to change the procedure, especially if a later DPL is elected with a platform that goes more

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-16 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 04:08:50PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:40:09PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: I'll let the patch linger for a couple of days -- actually, I'll be away for most part of tomorrow -- and then I'll apply it, posting a new complete draft here

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-16 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:45:52AM +0200, Simon Richter wrote: Hi, On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:48:02PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: I like that a lot more than the other wording, thus seconded. Please don't go and make this more confusing for me. As far as I can tell this wasn't meant

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-16 Thread Florian Weimer
* Charles Plessy: I wonder why not simply inviting the Debian Account Managers to accept the long term contributors as DDs, even if they to not maintain packages? Would an amendement be welcome? Seems reasonable. (I'm among those who believe that voting rights are more fundamental than

Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
On 15/09/10 at 12:08 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Naming (raised by at least Luca and Lars [8,9]) == Ah, what a mess! Until a few minutes before posting the GR proposal, the text contained a s/Debian Members/non-uploading Debian Developers/ and before that

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Lars Wirzenius
On ke, 2010-09-15 at 09:26 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: If we go for DDs without upload rights, I think that we should be extremely careful about not transforming this new kind of DDs into second-class members of the project. A way to do that is to avoid giving them a name, and emphasize the

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-15 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Tue, Sep 14, 2010 mat 06:29:24PM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit : Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes: after seeing the torrent of seconds, I am still puzzled if this GR is a progress or a regression: is the take home message that Debian should be more open, or that some members must

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Xavier Oswald
On 09:26 Wed 15 Sep , Lucas Nussbaum wrote: If we go for DDs without upload rights, I think that we should be extremely careful about not transforming this new kind of DDs into second-class members of the project. A way to do that is to avoid giving them a name, and emphasize the fact

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Steve McIntyre
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:26:59AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: If we go for DDs without upload rights, I think that we should be extremely careful about not transforming this new kind of DDs into second-class members of the project. A way to do that is to avoid giving them a name, and emphasize

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:26:59AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: If we go for DDs without upload rights, I think that we should be extremely careful about not transforming this new kind of DDs into second-class members of the project. A way to do that is to avoid giving them a name, and

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Simon Richter
Hi, On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:00:32PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but not limited to: package maintenance, translations, infrastructure

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:00:32PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : The Debian project therefore invites the Debian Account Managers to: * Endorse the idea that contributors of non-packaging work might become Debian Developers, albeit without upload access to the Debian archive. *

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 02:13:12PM +0200, Simon Richter wrote: I like that a lot more than the other wording, thus seconded. Thanks for your appreciation, but wait! :-) There are no need of seconds for this change (unless some of the previous seconders considers it unfaithful with respect to the

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-15 Thread Kumar Appaiah
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 12:20:54PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 04:04:24PM +0100, Philip Hands wrote: * Active contributors of non-packaging work, which share Debian values and are ready to uphold Debian Foundation Documents, deserve the opportunity for

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
On 15/09/10 at 21:00 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Attached you can find a tentative wording of a proposal which remove the term Debian Contributors, pretty similar to the version I had before posting (shame on me for changing that!), but maybe a bit better in that it doesn't the horrible

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:16:00PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: It seems to me that, if “albeit without upload access to the Debian archive” were removed, it would not close the possibility for the people in charge to difference of status. snip Would such a change be a happy end for everybody

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-15 Thread Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt
Hi, Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org writes: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but not limited to:

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:01:47PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:16:00PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: It seems to me that, if “albeit without upload access to the Debian archive” were removed, it would not close the possibility for the people in charge to

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-15 Thread Joey Hess
Paul Wise wrote: Stefano you seem to be 5 years too late with this GR, fjp's AM report looks like he was accepted primarily for his work on documentation and translations: http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2005/02/msg00017.html Not really. From my original advocation of Frans: |

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:00:32PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:26:59AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: If we go for DDs without upload rights, I think that we should be extremely careful about not transforming this new kind of DDs into second-class members of

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 02:13:12PM +0200, Simon Richter wrote: Hi, On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:00:32PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Bernd Zeimetz
On 09/15/2010 02:16 PM, Charles Plessy wrote: Le Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:00:32PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : The Debian project therefore invites the Debian Account Managers to: * Endorse the idea that contributors of non-packaging work might become Debian Developers, albeit

Re: Naming of non-uploading DDs (Was: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members)

2010-09-15 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:02:34PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz a écrit : On 09/15/2010 02:16 PM, Charles Plessy wrote: Le Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:00:32PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : The Debian project therefore invites the Debian Account Managers to: * Endorse the idea that

GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
[ Draft GR text below, look for -. M-F-T set to -vote. ] Dear Debian project, in recent events I've attended as DPL, the topic of welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members has been a recurring one. Since it was also part of my platform and since DPL terms don't last forever,

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Christoph Berg
--- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but not limited to: package maintenance, translations, infrastructure

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Giacomo A. Catenazzi
On 14.09.10 10:53, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Of all those topics, one topic *might* have consensus already: accepting as DDs contributors which have contributed a lot to Debian doing non-packaging work, which intend to continue doing so, and which are ready to uphold our Foundation Documents.

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Sylvestre Ledru
Le mardi 14 septembre 2010 à 17:53 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Sylvestre Ledru
Le mardi 14 septembre 2010 à 17:53 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 05:53:46PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : Of all those topics, one topic *might* have consensus already: accepting as DDs contributors which have contributed a lot to Debian doing non-packaging work, which intend to continue doing so, and which are ready to

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Manuel Prinz
Am Dienstag, den 14.09.2010, 17:53 +0900 schrieb Stefano Zacchiroli: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Luca Bruno
Stefano Zacchiroli scrisse: The Debian project therefore invites the Debian Account Managers to: * Endorse the idea that contributors of non-packaging work might become Debian Developers without upload rights to the Debian archive. These new developers shall be recognized as Debian

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Christoph Berg
Re: Giacomo A. Catenazzi 2010-09-14 4c8f40be.9050...@debian.org I don't understand the procedure. You are already empowered to do it: 8.1 The Project Leader's Delegates: 1. [...] 2. may make certain decisions which the Leader may not make directly, including approving or expelling

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread MJ Ray
Giacomo A. Catenazzi c...@debian.org So you are already free to do it by delegating. A GR would be used to overrule your decision, but, as you already noted, there is already a general consensus on the issue. Equally, the DPL is empowered to start a GR to do this. I'm very happy to see a DPL

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Christoph Berg
Re: Luca Bruno 2010-09-14 20100914120120.c0d3f45b.lu...@debian.org As we still remember the big on terminology thread[0] and we don't want here to create more confusion nor to start the big renaming race, I think it will be better to leave terminology out of this GR, as this will introduce

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Enrico Zini
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 05:53:46PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Lars Wirzenius
On ti, 2010-09-14 at 17:53 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: The Debian project therefore invites the Debian Account Managers to: * Endorse the idea that contributors of non-packaging work might become Debian Developers without upload rights to the Debian archive. These new developers

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Christoph Berg
Re: Lars Wirzenius 2010-09-14 1284461384.2573.26.ca...@havelock I do not like the introduction of yet another class of person developing Debian. I propose we call everyone with voting rights in Debian a Debian Developer (development not being restricted to coding and packaging). We are

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Ferdinand Thommes
Am Dienstag 14 September 2010, 10:53:46 schrieb Stefano Zacchiroli: [ Draft GR text below, look for -. M-F-T set to -vote. ] Dear Debian project, in recent events I've attended as DPL, the topic of welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members has been a recurring one.

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Kumar Appaiah
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 05:53:46PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: [ Draft GR text below, look for -. M-F-T set to -vote. ] Dear Debian project, in recent events I've attended as DPL, the topic of welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members has been a recurring one.

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Lars Wirzenius
On ti, 2010-09-14 at 13:14 +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: Re: Lars Wirzenius 2010-09-14 1284461384.2573.26.ca...@havelock I do not like the introduction of yet another class of person developing Debian. I propose we call everyone with voting rights in Debian a Debian Developer (development

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Gerfried Fuchs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi! * Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org [2010-09-14 10:53:46 CEST]: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Bernd Zeimetz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 09/14/2010 10:53 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Philip Hands
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 17:53:46 +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org wrote: ... * Active contributors of non-packaging work, which share Debian values and are ready to uphold Debian Foundation Documents, deserve the opportunity for becoming Debian project members.

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Xavier Oswald
On 17:53 Tue 14 Sep , Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but not limited to:

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Joerg Jaspert
On 12238 March 1977, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but not limited to:

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Gunnar Wolf
Stefano Zacchiroli dijo [Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 05:53:46PM +0900]: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but not

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
Hi, While I support welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members, I am concerned that we are creating the concept of second-class DDs (or at least, that it will be communicated like that). I see two different ways to avoid that: [A] Avoid giving DDs without upload rights any special

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Gunnar Wolf
MJ Ray dijo [Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:26:01AM +0100]: Giacomo A. Catenazzi c...@debian.org So you are already free to do it by delegating. A GR would be used to overrule your decision, but, as you already noted, there is already a general consensus on the issue. Equally, the DPL is

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Gunnar Wolf
Christoph Berg dijo [Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:30:57PM +0200]: As we still remember the big on terminology thread[0] and we don't want here to create more confusion nor to start the big renaming race, I think it will be better to leave terminology out of this GR, as this will introduce even

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Faidon Liambotis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but not limited to: package maintenance, translations, infrastructure

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Gunnar Wolf
Lars Wirzenius dijo [Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:41:24PM +0100]: We are calling everyone Debian Developer (cf. the constitution). DCs are a subset of DDs. We realize that we probably need a handy expression for DD with upload rights [1], but we don't have one yet. (Ideas?) Could we please

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Jakub Wilk
* Lucas Nussbaum lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net, 2010-09-14, 18:56: While I support welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members, I am concerned that we are creating the concept of second-class DDs (or at least, that it will be communicated like that). I see two different ways to avoid

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Ralf Treinen
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 05:53:46PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including but

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Damien Raude-Morvan
Hi, Le mardi 14 septembre 2010 10:53:46, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Jakub Wilk
* Jakub Wilk jw...@debian.org, 2010-09-14, 19:18: * Lucas Nussbaum lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net, 2010-09-14, 18:56: My own preference is [B] [A] [original GR proposal]. But I'd like to hear some other opinions before working on a draft amendment for either [A] or [B]. Same here. Just to

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Christoph Egger
Jakub Wilk jw...@debian.org writes: * Lucas Nussbaum lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net, 2010-09-14, 18:56: [B] Give everybody upload rights anyway. If we trust them to influence the project's decisions through voting, we should probably trust them to do the right thing and not upload packages when they

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Christoph Berg
Re: Gunnar Wolf 2010-09-14 20100914170611.ge26...@gwolf.org Yes, the naming clearly stems from when we were a flatter, simpler project with all-or-nothing participation. But we now have Debian developers which are not DDs, Debian maintainers which are not DM, and will surely have Debian

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 01:04:32PM +0200, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: Wholeheartly seconed, for all the longstanding website translators. This isn't signed with a key in the keyring. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble?

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 07:42:58PM +0200, Damien Raude-Morvan wrote: I second this proposal. This message was signed with a key not in the keyring. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Damien Raude-Morvan
Hi, Le mardi 14 septembre 2010 10:53:46, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : --- The Debian project aims at producing the best free operating system. To that end the project benefits from various types of contributions, including

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Lars Wirzenius
On ti, 2010-09-14 at 18:56 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: My own preference is [B] [A] [original GR proposal]. But I'd like to hear some other opinions before working on a draft amendment for either [A] or [B]. I'd prefer [A] == [B] [original GR proposal] [NOTA]. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Gerfried Fuchs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi! This time with the key that's still in the keyring, only noticed after sending that I haven't got it replaced in the keyring yet. * Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org [2010-09-14 10:53:46 CEST]:

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Gilles Filippini
Hi, Lucas Nussbaum a écrit , Le 14/09/2010 18:56: While I support welcoming non-packaging contributors as project members, I am concerned that we are creating the concept of second-class DDs (or at least, that it will be communicated like that). I see two different ways to avoid that:

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Russ Allbery
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes: I agree with the above, accepting as DDs contributors who do not maintain packages, but your proposal is different: it establishes a new class of project members, who differ by not having upload rights. I suppose that the goal is to avoid disruptive

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Russ Allbery
Christoph Berg m...@debian.org writes: Re: Luca Bruno 2010-09-14 20100914120120.c0d3f45b.lu...@debian.org I'd thus propose not to call them Debian Contributors (DC) now, and let NM/DAM team pick an appropriate name when reforming the procedures. The idea was discussed, and that's the name we

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 06:56:01PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum a écrit : My own preference is [B] [A] [original GR proposal]. But I'd like to hear some other opinions before working on a draft amendment for either [A] or [B]. Hi Lucas and everybody, after seeing the torrent of seconds, I am

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Paul Wise
Stefano you seem to be 5 years too late with this GR, fjp's AM report looks like he was accepted primarily for his work on documentation and translations: http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2005/02/msg00017.html In addition, as cate pointed out, the constitution already allows DAM/FD to

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Russ Allbery
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes: after seeing the torrent of seconds, I am still puzzled if this GR is a progress or a regression: is the take home message that Debian should be more open, or that some members must not have upload rights ? When a member does not have upload rights, is

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Kumar Appaiah
Dear Paul, On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:25:09AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: Stefano you seem to be 5 years too late with this GR, fjp's AM report looks like he was accepted primarily for his work on documentation and translations: http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2005/02/msg00017.html

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Paul Wise
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Kumar Appaiah a.ku...@alumni.iitm.ac.in wrote: The word Debian Developer seems to have become synonymous with those who package or write software for Debian. Whether that was intentional or unintentional is not known to me, but this aspect is what several

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 05:53:46PM +0900, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: [ Draft GR text below, look for -. M-F-T set to -vote. ] [ Disclaimer: I'm attending an academic conference this week and I'll be at the Italian mini-DebConf in the week-end. That's why I'll be sluggish in participating

Re: GR: welcome non-packaging contributors as Debian project members

2010-09-14 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 04:04:24PM +0100, Philip Hands wrote: * Active contributors of non-packaging work, which share Debian values and are ready to uphold Debian Foundation Documents, deserve the opportunity for becoming Debian project members.