On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 08:59:22AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> (Folks, please change the subject line when we're talking about Debian
> legal structure instead of the original topic.)
Please also note that this is still -vote@
--
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(Folks, please change the subject line when we're talking about Debian
legal structure instead of the original topic.)
tytso writes:
> Until 1970, the New York Stock Exchange was the oldest unincorporated
> association, so there have been some very old, well understood
> organizations that have
On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:24:55AM +0200, Gard Spreemann wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 01:35:14PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> >> Debian does not exist, legally :-)
> >
> > and that's a feature, not a bug.
>
> Could you elaborate on this? We've heard arguments for why it might be a
> bug –
> Regarding the Russian law: It's a scare-mongering tactic, don't
> give in to it. There is no rule of law in Russia anyway, it's just
> a scam.
I have a feeling that it's somewhat hypocritical to ask Russians to go
in the streets and protest their government risking their lives while
sitting in
Holger Levsen writes:
> On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 01:35:14PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>> Debian does not exist, legally :-)
>
> and that's a feature, not a bug.
Could you elaborate on this? We've heard arguments for why it might be a
bug – and we can have a discussion about whether that's true
On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 01:09:13PM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
Over the last decade that has changed a lot, and DebConf is now as
much part of the Debian project as any other Debian sub-project. We
now mostly use the same Debian TOs (unless there's a good reason to
add a temporary one for a
Holger Levsen writes:
> the CCC e.V. association OTOH was formed as a legal entity to protect
> individuals.
To be clear, this sort of outcome may well be the correct outcome of "give
Debian legal existence." In other words, the goal doesn't need to be to
form a non-profit with the name
On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 10:19:27PM +, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 01:35:14PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> > Debian does not exist, legally :-)
I'm repeating others, but I think it's important to repeat:
This may not be true. At least in the US, existence is a matter of
On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 01:35:14PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Debian does not exist, legally :-)
and that's a feature, not a bug.
the CCC e.V. association OTOH was formed as a legal entity to protect
individuals.
it's possible to go both ways to achieve some of the same goals, but the
current
Jonas Smedegaard dijo [Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 12:52:31PM +0200]:
> > Hmm, debconf.org says "Copyright Software in the Public Interest,
> > Inc", but there is no imprint or anything. DebConf as such is not
> > listed as a separate project on https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/; of
> > course it
Hi Jonathan
On 2022/04/08 11:44, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Debconf is not formally a part of Debian,
and so cannot be bound by the outcome of a GR anyway.
Due to how DebConf started and how it evolved, and the pace that they
had to move on to get things done, they
Quoting Ansgar (2022-04-08 12:46:59)
> On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 10:44 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 08:21:39PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > If a Debconf location is also considered a political statement as
> > > you imply then we have to choose Debconf locations by
On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 10:44 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 08:21:39PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > If a Debconf location is also considered a political statement as
> > you
> > imply then we have to choose Debconf locations by means of GR,
> > starting
> > with a GR
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 04:17:42PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
Half the people on this planet are living in countries that did not
approve the "Aggression against Ukraine" UN resolution, including
many Debian contributors.
The proposed GR text makes no reference to that UN resolution, so I
don't
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 08:21:39PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
If a Debconf location is also considered a political statement as you
imply then we have to choose Debconf locations by means of GR, starting
with a GR right now whether Debian wants to consider Kosovo a
self-determined sovereign
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 12:31:18PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
>
> This is a proposal for Debian to issue a statement on an
> issue of the day as given as an
On 3/31/22 12:31, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
This is a proposal for Debian to issue a statement on an
issue of the day as given as an example, the recent invasion
of
Steve Langasek wrote:
> "Our priorities are our users and Free Software" means that, in our decision
making and our governance we should be oriented FIRST towards users and do
what is good for the people who are using our software; and that our SECOND
priority, only when not in conflict in the
Quoting Russ Allbery (2022-04-06 01:44:43)
> Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> > Quoting Steve Langasek (2022-04-05 22:36:02)
> >> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 02:39:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
> >>> No we don't - we care about our users, and our users include those
> >>> who do evil.
>
> >> I
On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 13:36:02 -0700
Steve Langasek wrote:
> It is
> unrealistic to stop evil people from using Debian (or to stop Debian users
> from doing evil). But that doesn't mean people doing evil should somehow
> get a free pass from us because they are Debian users.
Exactly.
--
Hideki
Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> Quoting Steve Langasek (2022-04-05 22:36:02)
>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 02:39:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>>> No we don't - we care about our users, and our users include those
>>> who do evil.
>> I think this thread has largely petered out, with many people
Quoting Steve Langasek (2022-04-05 22:36:02)
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 02:39:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Julian Andres Klode (2022-03-31 12:31:18)
> > > Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are
> > > the body who has the power to issue nontechnical
On 2022-04-05 17:02, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 05, 2022 at 01:36:02PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
>> I think this thread has largely petered out, with many people having laid
>> out the reasons why Debian taking a public position on this is not
>> necessarily a good idea.
>>
>> But I
On Tue, Apr 05, 2022 at 01:36:02PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> I think this thread has largely petered out, with many people having laid
> out the reasons why Debian taking a public position on this is not
> necessarily a good idea.
>
> But I don't think it should go unadddressed that it's
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 02:39:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Julian Andres Klode (2022-03-31 12:31:18)
> > Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> > body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
> > This is a proposal for Debian to issue a
On Fri, Apr 01, 2022 at 04:17:49PM -0400, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote:
> I'm glad to see that secret votes as we have now didn't seem to encourage
> 'opinions about non-technical issues outside the social contract'. So far,
> such
> GR proposal reached zero support,
Debatable, as the archive
On Fri, Apr 01, 2022 at 07:22:32PM +, Bill Allombert wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 12:31:18PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> > body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
> >
> > This is a proposal
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 12:31:18PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
>
> This is a proposal for Debian to issue a statement on an
> issue of the day as given as an
Julian Andres Klode writes:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 03:46:46PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 04:17:42PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 12:31:18PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
>> > > Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way
Hi,
On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 12:31:18 +0200
Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
I disagree with it. I want to define the Debian Project as people who
do Free and Open Source
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 3:33 AM Julian Andres Klode wrote:
>
> nontechnical statements.
"Life is like a flute. It may have many holes and emptiness but if you
work on it carefully, it can play magical melodies."
First comment here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5qhNRmMilI
Kind
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 06:57:06PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
>...
> At least for Taiwan and Kosovo, I think that by holding DebConfs in
> those places and engaging with their self-determined governments we
> have de-facto accepted them as self-determined sovereign nations.
I think that
Julian Andres Klode dijo [Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 06:57:06PM +0200]:
> > I think this is a good position, especially in this case.
> >
> > We have Debian developers and users in Ukraine and Russia: hostilities
> > continue.
> > If the project were to endorse this, you might put people in a
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 03:46:46PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 04:17:42PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 12:31:18PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > > Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> > > body who has
Julian Andres Klode writes:
> Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
> This is a proposal for Debian to issue a statement on an
> issue of the day as given as an example, the recent invasion
> of Ukraine.
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 04:17:42PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 12:31:18PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> > body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
> >
> > This is a proposal for
On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 12:31:18PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
>
> This is a proposal for Debian to issue a statement on an
> issue of the day as given as an
Quoting Julian Andres Klode (2022-03-31 12:31:18)
> Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the
> body who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
>
> This is a proposal for Debian to issue a statement on an
> issue of the day as given as an example, the recent
On 16454 March 1977, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
While that war is idiotic and entirely stupid - what is the gain for
Debian issuing such a statement? What is the goal here?
Oh, and why now, not for all of those other wars and the misery coming
out of them, all over the world, in the last years?
On 16454 March 1977, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
The Debian project strongly condemns the invasion of Ukraine by
Russia. The Debian projects affirms that Ukrain is a souvereign
nation which includes the Donbas regions of Luhansk, as well as
Crimea, which has already been illegaly annexed by
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