Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-14 Thread Jo Shields
*TRIGGER WARNING* in case it wasn't painfully obvious for this thread by now. On 14/03/14 02:21, Nils Dagsson Moskopp wrote: Gunnar Wolf gw...@gwolf.org writes: Jo Shields dijo [Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:34:59PM +]: Let's be very, very, very clear then. This is a game where you play a

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-14 Thread Miriam Ruiz
2014-03-14 9:59 GMT+01:00 Jo Shields direct...@apebox.org: *TRIGGER WARNING* in case it wasn't painfully obvious for this thread by now. Thanks for the warning. Just for the record, I can confirm that there has been people already triggered by all this situation. We can't forget that, as the

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-14 Thread 'lesleyb'
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:07:20AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: 2014-03-14 9:59 GMT+01:00 Jo Shields direct...@apebox.org: *TRIGGER WARNING* in case it wasn't painfully obvious for this thread by now. Thanks for the warning. Just for the record, I can confirm that there has been people

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-14 Thread Steve Langasek
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 03:30:38AM -0700, Vincent Cheng wrote: Due to the above, I'm going to be watching the progress of Unteralterbach's packaging very closely in the coming months, as well as opposing this every step of the way. If this actually makes it into the NEW queue, I have no

Re: Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-13 Thread Gunnar Wolf
Jo Shields dijo [Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:34:59PM +]: Let's be very, very, very clear then. This is a game where you play a paedophile. The aim is to rape local little girls, whilst evading the authorities. Success is rewarded with graphic scenes of sex with children, failure with being

Re: Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-13 Thread Nils Dagsson Moskopp
Gunnar Wolf gw...@gwolf.org writes: Jo Shields dijo [Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:34:59PM +]: Let's be very, very, very clear then. This is a game where you play a paedophile. The aim is to rape local little girls, whilst evading the authorities. Success is rewarded with graphic scenes of

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-12 Thread 'lesleyb'
On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 05:39:33AM +0100, Bas Wijnen wrote: As far as I understand, we're all defining our position 2nd hand on Bas' analysis. Agreed. And given the responses, my analysis obviously needs some explanation. Thanks. This game is technically very well done. It is a visual

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-12 Thread Charles Vinchon
Le Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:32:29 +, 'lesleyb' lesl...@herlug.org.uk a écrit : I think they're illegal in the UK regardless. These pictures (as they are described) are illegal under french laws. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe.

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Paul Tagliamonte
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 01:47:22AM -0500, Joseph Neal wrote: Hey, all I hate to stir up shit, but that's exactly what I'm doing. :( The tone on that thread has been really respectful up until now; if anyone does want to voice concern, please do maintain a very polite tone. This is way too

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Miriam Ruiz
2014-03-11 14:55 GMT+01:00 Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org: The tone on that thread has been really respectful up until now; if anyone does want to voice concern, please do maintain a very polite tone. This is way too easy to get upset about (also, trigger warning on the game and game

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Daniel Pocock
On 11/03/14 14:55, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 01:47:22AM -0500, Joseph Neal wrote: Hey, all I hate to stir up shit, but that's exactly what I'm doing. :( The tone on that thread has been really respectful up until now; if anyone does want to voice concern, please do

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Sam Kuper
On 11/03/2014, Joseph Neal vlvtel...@speakeasy.net wrote: I hate to stir up shit, but that's exactly what I'm doing. If you hate to do it, then please don't do it. Several people have already objected but I hope there will be such a resounding rejection that nobody considers submitting

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Miriam Ruiz
2014-03-11 17:39 GMT+01:00 Mateusz Jończyk mat.jonc...@o2.pl: There is a danger, if the Debian project falls prey to a moral panic, that it will self-censor to the extent of producing a chilling effect upon itself. This is not a moral panic. A real harm is being done. According to statistics

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Mateusz Jończyk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 W dniu 11.03.2014 15:52, Sam Kuper pisze: On 11/03/2014, Joseph Neal vlvtel...@speakeasy.net wrote: I hate to stir up shit, but that's exactly what I'm doing. If you hate to do it, then please don't do it. Several people have already objected

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Sam Kuper
On 11/03/2014, Mateusz Jończyk mat.jonc...@o2.pl wrote: W dniu 11.03.2014 15:52, Sam Kuper pisze: On 11/03/2014, Joseph Neal vlvtel...@speakeasy.net wrote: According to statistics [2] One in 20 children (4.8%) have experienced contact sexual abuse. This has probably a devastating effect on

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Tobias Hansen
Am 11.03.2014 17:54, schrieb Miriam Ruiz: Right now there is no need to make any decision at all, it is in the hands of the FTP Masters, and we as a project trust them. As far as I am aware there is not even the need for the FTP masters to decide because there is no Debian developer who is

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Thibaut Paumard
Le 11/03/2014 20:10, Sam Kuper a écrit : My point was that if legal (in some jurisdictions) and literary discussions of abuse are completely excluded from Debian, then an act of censorship has been performed, which may itself be viewed as a real - though different - harm. No. Deciding to not

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Sam Kuper
On 11/03/2014, Thibaut Paumard thib...@debian.org wrote: Le 11/03/2014 20:10, Sam Kuper a écrit : My point was that if legal (in some jurisdictions) and literary discussions of abuse are completely excluded from Debian, then an act of censorship has been performed, which may itself be viewed

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Sam Kuper
On 11/03/2014, Daniel Pocock dan...@pocock.com.au wrote: Many people wouldn't want to touch this with a ten foot pole. The consequences of even showing sympathy for this type of package could well have personal consequences for some people well into the future, here is a typical example:

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Daniel Pocock
On 11/03/14 22:23, Sam Kuper wrote: On 11/03/2014, Daniel Pocock dan...@pocock.com.au wrote: Many people wouldn't want to touch this with a ten foot pole. The consequences of even showing sympathy for this type of package could well have personal consequences for some people well into the

Re: Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Jo Shields
I honestly believe that almost none of those of us discusing the game has even tried it (I haven't at least) and I don't think anyone who hasn't even tested it can have a solid opinion. As far as I understand, we're all defining our position 2nd hand on Bas' analysis. Let's be very, very,

Re: Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Miriam Ruiz
2014-03-11 23:34 GMT+01:00 Jo Shields direct...@apebox.org: I honestly believe that almost none of those of us discusing the game has even tried it (I haven't at least) and I don't think anyone who hasn't even tested it can have a solid opinion. As far as I understand, we're all defining our

Re: Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Nils Dagsson Moskopp
Jo Shields direct...@apebox.org writes: I honestly believe that almost none of those of us discusing the game has even tried it (I haven't at least) and I don't think anyone who hasn't even tested it can have a solid opinion. As far as I understand, we're all defining our position 2nd hand on

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Nils Dagsson Moskopp
Tobias Hansen than...@debian.org writes: Am 11.03.2014 17:54, schrieb Miriam Ruiz: Right now there is no need to make any decision at all, it is in the hands of the FTP Masters, and we as a project trust them. As far as I am aware there is not even the need for the FTP masters to decide

Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of erotic interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

2014-03-11 Thread Bas Wijnen
As far as I understand, we're all defining our position 2nd hand on Bas' analysis. And given the responses, my analysis obviously needs some explanation. This game is technically very well done. It is a visual novel, which like a regular novel is intended to make the reader/player think