Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Banks (and Ebay) Phising Filters

Could you post your config since the Declude page uses clamscan. What is the difference. Jeff TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 643-2023 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Spam leak?

Yes I recived it also. Jeff Kratka On 1/13/2006, Dave Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ummm... Did anybody else get a piece of spam this morning with subject SPAMSPCE: that seems to have been relayed through Declude.com? -Dave Doherty Skywaves, Inc. --- [This E-mail was scanned

[Declude.JunkMail] Alive?

Hi, Was just wondering if the list is up. I had a power outage last night and everything seems to me working. Just checking Jeff Kratka -- TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 643-2023 - [EMAIL

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] OT: IMail vs. Merak

ASSP (it's like Spam Assassin but easier to setup) but would really like to get my Declude set-up working with it. Just a suggestion. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 643-2023 - [EMAIL

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] OT: IMail vs. Merak

I'm not sure. The easiest thing to do would be to go to the site and ask in the forum. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 643-2023 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

[Declude.JunkMail] Diag issue

I have been attempting to run the diag for declude but every time I do I received the following message C:\IMaildecludeproc -diag Invalid command line parameter: -install Install Declude -diagPrint diagnostics What am I doing wrong. Jeff Kratka

[Declude.JunkMail] update to Declude 3.0.5.5

I just updated to Declude 3.0.5.5 and was wondering about a something's. Decon will not work anymore. Is there a new version for the updated version of Declude. I do have Hijack, AV and Junkmail and the consol is very useful. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] update to Declude 3.0.5.5

Thanks all. I must have missed that post. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 643-2023 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] How they deal w/ Spammers in Russia

Oops,. bummer. Sucks to be him Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From

[Declude.JunkMail] Admin Web for Declude

Hello, Quite some time ago, there was mention about an Admin Web for Declude, is this available or does anyone have something to share? Thank You. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 839

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Admin Web for Declude

Mostly what I remember from some time ago was something to let the end user modify their settings. Sorry Admin Web was the incorrect wording. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 839-6027

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Admin Web for Declude

That's what I thought. Sandy, are you still here? Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] DNSReport and DNSStuff websites

I can say for a fact that the MRE's are better than Spam John... :) Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Problem with subject line in version 2.0

I had the same problem today while installing v2.0. All Declude functions stopped. I called them and went back to the old version and everything works perfect, just like before. I'm glad to see it wasn't just me. Jeff Kratka -- Original Message -- From

[Declude.JunkMail] Outgoing mail

To prevent Declude JM from scanning outbound mail I know I can whitelist IP ranges. Can they be anywhere in the global.cfg or do they need to be at the top. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Off-Topic

Now that is just plain WRONG !! Now I can't stand Mushrooms and Badgers... !!! Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

[Declude.JunkMail] habeas

Has anyone had better luck with habeas lately. I turned things off since the spammers jumped on. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

[Declude.JunkMail] Copy To

I would like to monitor both incoming and outgoing mail from 1 particular e-mail address on my domain. What would be the easiest/simplest way of doing it without the persons knowledge. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] OT: iMail 6.06 vulnerabilities

I'm still running v6.06 (mostly due to cost). One thing I found was moving the spool directory to a completely different location and using Kiwi for my syslog it helped alot. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] OT: iMail 6.06 vulnerabilities

Here you go... http://www.kiwisyslog.com/ Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message

[Declude.JunkMail] Declude is now gone.

I just moved my Imail spool directory to a different drive (which did help with performance) and now everything in my Declude directory is gone. I did not remove anything from there. What did I do wrong. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude is now gone.

Yep, all of the files in the Declude directory were gone. I was able to restore them from a back-up so it seems to work now. Sorry that I jumped the gun, but that was just to weird. It's been mostly that type of day. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] DNSstuff Website

Vacation? What's that Same here Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From

[Declude.JunkMail] OT - decon

Scott, I terminal serve into my Imail box often and was wondering if it is possible to run the Declude Consol from Term Serve. Jeff Kratka TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Test

Yep same here. It's a never ending battle. Jeff Kratka -- Original Message -- From: Jeff Maze - Hostmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:39:20 -0400 Ok.. Got it back.. I guess just not a lot going on.. But have

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Habeas Porn

That's why I stopped using it. To much junk coming in with the Habeas headers that were spam. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

[Declude.JunkMail] Spammer on board

be done to the spammer? Just wondering. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * --- [This E-mail

[Declude.JunkMail] TCP/UDP ports

suggestions? Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses

[Declude.JunkMail] Help with a Spammer

down? Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Help with a Spammer

No I have Imail 6.06 (Yeah I know..) Declude Junk Mail and Virus. I have been thinking about Hijack but right now funds are thin. I'm mostly trying to track them down. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Help with a Spammer

to track down on my system so I am very new at it. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Help with a Spammer

Thank you, I just installed Declude Hijack and it is helping already. Being that it is showing the IP address of the outgoing mail and the amount I can check into this more. I think it will help me with this issue. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] How do they do it?

For a firewall, would the regular version of Blackice work ok or is the Server version needed. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] How do they do it?

Are there others suggestion for firewall software for the server. Does Zonealarm have a server version and if so does it work as well as Black Ice. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax

[Declude.JunkMail] Mydoom.b

couple of hours. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses

[Declude.JunkMail] Junk Mail Stats

Pardon my ignorance but what are people using to get the stats from junk mail? Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

[Declude.JunkMail] Happy Holidays

I would like to wish everyone a Safe and Happy Holiday. EVERYONE that has helped over the past year (and I've needed it) a big THANK YOU. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Public DJM Config Files

I would also be interested in this. Is it possible to get these? Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

[Declude.JunkMail] HELP PLEASE !

Today my mail server crashed and I have been trying to get things back up and running. I have Imail v6.06 with Declude 1.75. When I run the smtp32.exe it seems to be passing mail. When I have it call declude.exe it fails. Any ideas.. Jeff Kratka

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] HELP PLEASE !

For You -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Kratka Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 9:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] HELP PLEASE ! Today my mail server crashed and I have been trying to get

[Declude.JunkMail] Spammer wanting servers?

I received this over the weekend and thought others may be interested. This guy wants to get servers so he can spam.. Below is the headers and the message. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel

[Declude.JunkMail] Off topic .. maybe

-Ogboi Investments International Ltd., 129, Okota Road, Block E, Suite 1, Okota-Isolo, Lagos, Nigeria. Tel: 234-1-8043993, 234-8042116061. Website: http://eoboi.itgo.com, http://owg.itgo.com E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeff Kratka

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] BYPASSWHITELIST

Thank you. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

[Declude.JunkMail] Whitelists

I know this has been brought up before but I have been having some problems with Whitelists. I have a test white_to which has a list of the users that want to be whitelisted. When some spam comes in and it happens to be addressed to one of these people in the list the spam will go thru and pass

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] What's wrong with SpamCop?

Over the last couple of weeks I have gotten a couple of messages from Spamcop about problems. Looking at logs and some other things nothing went out from my IP range. I will probably drop the weight on Spamcop for a while until things settle down. Jeff Kratka

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] www.declude.com down????

No problems here.. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Whitelisting

Scott, It was also mentioned to a blank user file with the per user config which would allow all tests to pass. Would this work also? I just wanted more options. The negative weight works. Jeff Kratka -- ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] tailing a log file

www.wintail.com Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

[Declude.JunkMail] Whitelisting

the one person is whitelisted. Am I doing something wrong or is there a way to prevent this. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 110 Ecklund St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Whitelisting

Thanks I'll try this out. Jeff Kratka -- Original Message -- From: DLAnalyzer Support [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:41:45 -0400 Jeff, This is similar to the issue of whitelisting the postmaster account

[Declude.JunkMail] User Interface

There was talk awhile ago about some people creating a web user interface for Declude. Did anyone come up with one? Jeff * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] New variation of PayPal Account retrieval

May be a dumb question but how are you setting up JM to block these. Jeff ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Declude.JunkMail] SUBJECTSPACES test

Scott, This has probably been mentioned but I just heard about it. The SUBJECTSPACES test, is it an undocumented test? Will it check spaced all in a row, ie: This MessageHere and the spaces between or does it also count the space between words. Jeff Kratka

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Report System

I would be interested. Jeff * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

[Declude.JunkMail] Spam Attack

] Every single e-mail was to the same address and from the same address and IP, there were a couple of thousand that attempted this. Just thought some others would like to know. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Spam Attack

2003 17:39:39 -0700 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Kratka Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 5:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Spam Attack Just to let everyone know so others don't get hit with it, I just had

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Log Analyzer - Comments Needed

Same here, I would be interested. Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message

[Declude.JunkMail] PostFixGate

Somehow I got listed on PostFixGate and have sent several e-mails and several of their unblock me notices and have never received any type of info. I am still listed, does anyone know how to get in touch with these guys so I can get removed. Jeff Kratka

[Declude.JunkMail] Whitelist per user

Is it possible to set-up a whitelist per user. I have it running per user but there are a couple of people that haven't received mail from friends so I have whitelisted in the global.cfg. I would rather whitelist for the particular user. Jeff Kratka

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Whitelist per user

John, Is it possible to try this out? Jeff Kratka * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] OT: MS update

is (was) this something that has been there for some time with Ipswitch, just like the hello message not being RFC compliant. (Sorry, venting) Jeff Kratka ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] OT: MS update

: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Smart Business Lists Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 2:06 PM To: Jeff Kratka Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] OT: MS update Tuesday, December 17, 2002 you wrote: JK Reading a message from last week, someone said this also effected the JK

[Declude.JunkMail] Habeas Test

Just as a curiosity, is anyone using the Habeas test and if so does it help? Jeff * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Listed in Spam databases

Hi Scott, Yes I did send to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2 different times. it just becomes annoying that you can be listed without being notified. Jeff * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 -

[Declude.JunkMail] listed on Postfix Gate

I just came in this morning and was doing a check on things and noticed my mail server is now listed on PostfixGate. It wasn't that way yesterday and nothing has changed. There shows no reason for this so I went to have my mail server removed from the list. I did have one person that sent spam

[Declude.JunkMail] five-ten

I have sent mail Five Ten to try to get my IP block removed from their list (All Sprint blocks are listed I guess) and mail keeps coming back unknown user. I have sent to info (the link off the web page) and carl(listed with Whois). Does anyone know where else I can send mail to? Jeff

RE: [Declude.JunkMail] five-ten

Sorry about being brain dead and not checking. The first two were rejected for being listed but I did send to blackhole and it showed that it went thru. The ol' brain isn't functioning to much today, my wife started going into labor and I haven't been thinking straight... Jeff

[Declude.JunkMail] Web Site ?

Is anyone else having difficulties with the Declude Web Site? Jeff * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *

[Declude.JunkMail] FYI

Just to let people know, I received this e-mail from a guy looking for a copy of Declude. I e-mailed him back that I was able to get the funds together and so can he. Jeff * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417

[Declude.JunkMail] Word filter

Hopefully a simple question. In the word filter will it pick up every word on the line of if it is set up as a phrase will it just do that. Do quotation marks make a difference? SUBJECT 20 CONTAINS Lowest Mortgage Rates Around - every word? SUBJECT 20 CONTAINS Lowest Mortgage Rates Around

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Sniffer

postmaster said their mail was bouncing. In both cases they were legitimate companies sending work-related things, but they both were listed in one of the open relay databases so the filters worked correctly. --Todd. - Original Message - From: Jeff Kratka [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED

[Declude.JunkMail] Declude and Sniffer

Just curious. How many people are using both Declude Junk Mail and the sniffer add-on and has it made a difference if yes. I have been completely pummeled with Spam and am looking for more options. Thanks. Jeff * TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] DORKZTL:DNS Report Down?

Everything's looking good on this end. Jeff Kratka ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] ORBZ - More info

You're right... made me feel better.. Jeff ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] **

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude console

Did the same exact thing here. Jeff ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** -

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Comparing Weight Configurations

Mike, Would it be possible for you to send me your global and your default files so I can compare them to mine. I do like that setup that you have and want to check on more. Jeff ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St.,

[Declude.JunkMail] Declude Virus

Scott, In Declude Virus, if you add in BANEXT .xxx will Declude treat the e-mail as a virus and move the e-mail to a quarantine area just like a virus. I have noticed since I have added a couple of these lines that directory has received more files but I have not been notified. Jeff

[Declude.JunkMail] Re:Declude Virus

] ** - Original Message - From: Jeff Kratka [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 5:07 PM Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude Virus Scott, In Declude Virus, if you add in BANEXT .xxx will Declude

[Declude.JunkMail] Tests

Forgive me Scott but I forgot this. What is the command line to check to see what tests Declude is running. Amount active etc.. Jeff ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 -

Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Product Info Questions

Excuse the ignorance here, but what is needed to set up this ADULT test. Jeff ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417 tel/fax: (541) 839-6027 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Declude.JunkMail] ByPassing IP's

Hello, This may be a stupid question but I can't figure it out. I would like Declude to bypass a certain amount of IP addresses. These are mostly feedbacks and e-mail forms coming from some web pages I host. When people receive the forms it fails the SPAMHEADERS test and gets a note. I

Re: REVDNS:[Declude.JunkMail] Declude.JunkMail

Thanks Scott, that seemed to do it. I am very pleased the way Declude Junkmail works. It has filtered out so much junk since I installed it. Thanks, Jeff ** TymeWyse Internet P.O.Box 84 - 583 N. Main St., Canyonville, OR 97417

REVDNS:[Declude.JunkMail] Declude.JunkMail

Hopefully a simple question. I just finished up-grading my mail server and took the old machine out of service. Imail v6.06 and Declude Junkmail. I moved all information from one machine to another and user the same IP addresses. Everything looks to be running correctly, mail flowing and Declude