RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
I installed autowhite. This product is not ready to be on the market and certainly should not be something someone pays good money to purchase. It has promise, but its not ready yet. Its advertised as working with Smartermail. To use it in a smartermail environment, you have to go into the registry on the server and enter a number of IMAIL registry keys. None of these required keys are currently documented in the installation docs. John said he is planning on updating the installation documentation. The main problem, however, is that there needs to be a registry key manually created for each smartermail email domain. These keys get created under an IMAIL parent key. So if you have a control panel, and resellers create new email domains, the autowhite registry key for that new email domain won't exist. Autowhite won't process for that domain. You would have to modify your control panel to create the registry key or manually create the keys. Autowhite also has a log option. But it won't log without a syslog daemon on the server. Autowhite needs to have an option to log to a text file -- I wouldn't install anything to support a utility being able to log. -Original Message- From: Kamran Razvan [mailto:kami.l...@clickandpledge.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:01 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Thanks Dave, Just to show you how it works: [AUTOWHITE.1] external1 M:\autowhite\autowhite.exe /LICENSE CODE /R5 /L1 %MAILFROM% %REALRECIPS% -500 [AUTOWHITE.2] external2 M:\autoWhite\autowhite.exe /LICENSE CODE /R5 /L1 %MAILFROM% %REALRECIPS% -100 0 In here if someone is sent an email to a person then the program tracks how many times that email has been emailed to. Next time when the person emails us the program looks at the sender's counter and we add -50 for 1 hit and -100 for 2 hits and more. Effectively if I email someone twice they are whitelisted. Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:48 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on The author is John Tolmachoff of http://www.eservicesforyou.com/products/autowhite.html -Original Message- From: Kamran Razvan [mailto:kami.l...@clickandpledge.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:41 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: FW: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Dave, This program is the exact behavior that autowhite had and one that we are using now. Unfortunately I don't remember who had written it. Anyone remembers? The program works beautifully. Every time I sent an email the person's email address is added a negative weight. We use it in a combo filter and whitelist the person in all future emails. I know the author decided not to work on it anymore but we have been using it for years. Regards, Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
This product is not ready to be on the market and certainly should not be something someone pays good money to purchase. It has promise, but its not ready yet. Your complaints have to do principally with SmarterMail -- certainly when the product was published and supported I don't recall anything about SmarterMail being advertised. That's an after-the-fact hack, but I don't knw what that has to do with on the market. Autowhite also has a log option. But it won't log without a syslog daemon on the server. IMail had a syslog daemon built-in. That's obviously why it was built to use that functionality. Autowhite needs to have an option to log to a text file -- I wouldn't install anything to support a utility being able to log. Do your firewalls log to text files on the device, then? Sounds like a lot of FUD over a dead product which actually did exactly what it was supposed to do, and with more flexibility than most command-line add-ons. I for one *wish* that everything logged to syslog. I don't want a text file on the local box being written to on every e-mail. SMTP is disk I/O bound already. -- S. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
Sanford, I'm not complaining. I'm saying that there is an opportunity for someone to write the utility I suggested. I'd write it except the languages I code wouldn't be a good choice for something like this. -Original Message- From: Sanford Whiteman [mailto:sa...@cypressintegrated.com] Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 12:00 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on This product is not ready to be on the market and certainly should not be something someone pays good money to purchase. It has promise, but its not ready yet. Your complaints have to do principally with SmarterMail -- certainly when the product was published and supported I don't recall anything about SmarterMail being advertised. That's an after-the-fact hack, but I don't knw what that has to do with on the market. Autowhite also has a log option. But it won't log without a syslog daemon on the server. IMail had a syslog daemon built-in. That's obviously why it was built to use that functionality. Autowhite needs to have an option to log to a text file -- I wouldn't install anything to support a utility being able to log. Do your firewalls log to text files on the device, then? Sounds like a lot of FUD over a dead product which actually did exactly what it was supposed to do, and with more flexibility than most command-line add-ons. I for one *wish* that everything logged to syslog. I don't want a text file on the local box being written to on every e-mail. SMTP is disk I/O bound already. -- S. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
Dave, it is sad to see you take a discussion we were having via email and turn it into an unwarranted attack on a product that has been in use as designed since 2003 and has been working great in its intended and designed use. QUOTE: This product is not ready to be on the market and certainly should not be something someone pays good money to purchase. It has promise, but its not ready yet. Your purchase was in 2003. BEFORE a version of Declude was created to work with Smartermail.John T eServices For You -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom db...@atving.com Sent 2/18/2011 9:46:15 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I installed autowhite. This product is not ready to be on the market and certainly should not be something someone pays good money to purchase. It has promise, but its not ready yet. Its advertised as working with Smartermail. To use it in a smartermail environment, you have to go into the registry on the server and enter a number of IMAIL registry keys. None of these required keys are currently documented in the installation docs. John said he is planning on updating the installation documentation. The main problem, however, is that there needs to be a registry key manuall y created for each smartermail email domain. These keys get created under an IMAIL parent key. So if you have a control panel, and resellers create new email domains, the autowhite registry key for that new email domain won't exist. Autowhite won't process for that domain. You would have to modify your control panel to create the registry key or manually create the keys. Autowhite also has a log option. But it won't log without a syslog daemon on the server. Autowhite needs to have an option to log to a text file -- I wouldn't install anything to support a utility being able to log. -Original Message- From: Kamran Razvan [mailto:kami.l...@clickandpledge.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:01 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Thanks Dave, Just to show you how it works: [AUTOWHITE.1] external1 M:\autowhite\autowhite.exe /LICENSE CODE /R5 /L1 %MAILFROM% %REALRECIPS% -500 [AUTOWHITE.2] external2 M:\autoWhite\autowhite.exe /LICENSE CODE /R5 /L1 %MAILFROM% %REALRECIPS% -100 0 In here if someone is sent an email to a person then the program tracks how many times that email has been emailed to. Next time when the person email s us the program looks at the sender's counter and we add -50 for 1 hit and -100 for 2 hits and more. Effectively if I email someone twice they are whitelisted. Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:48 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on The author is John Tolmachoff of http://www.eservicesforyou.com/products/autowhite.html -Original Message- From: Kamran Razvan [mailto:kami.l...@clickandpledge.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:41 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: FW: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Dave, This program is the exact behavior that autowhite had and one that we are using now. Unfortunately I don't remember who had written it. Anyone remembers? The program works beautifully. Every time I sent an email the person's email address is added a negative weight. We use it in a combo filter and whitelist the person in all future emails. I know the author decided not to work on it anymore but we have been using it for years. Regards, Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on woul d add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit o f minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
Hi John, I apologize. At the time I posted that, I didn't realize that autowhite is no longer being developed. It is what it is...which is a 3rd party utility that sounds like it works well with imail. Until a day or so ago...I didn't recall autowhite or that we had ever purchased it. Looked at the docs and saw it was supposed to work with smartermail... So I decided to give it a try. It was only after starting down that road, that I discovered the documentation was incomplete and the way it has to be implemented in a smartermail environment isn't very friendly or practical (in my opinion) So I stand by what I said that I would not recommend someone purchase autowhite -- but need to qualify that by saying unless you use imail. Even so..the tone of my email was overly harsh. I apologize for that, too. _ From: John T [mailto:johnl...@eservicesforyou.com] Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 1:04 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Dave, it is sad to see you take a discussion we were having via email and turn it into an unwarranted attack on a product that has been in use as designed since 2003 and has been working great in its intended and designed use. QUOTE: This product is not ready to be on the market and certainly should not be something someone pays good money to purchase. It has promise, but its not ready yet. Your purchase was in 2003. BEFORE a version of Declude was created to work with Smartermail. John T eServices For You -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom db...@atving.com Sent 2/18/2011 9:46:15 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I installed autowhite. This product is not ready to be on the market and certainly should not be something someone pays good money to purchase. It has promise, but its not ready yet. Its advertised as working with Smartermail. To use it in a smartermail environment, you have to go into the registry on the server and enter a number of IMAIL registry keys. None of these required keys are currently documented in the installation docs. John said he is planning on updating the installation documentation. The main problem, however, is that there needs to be a registry key manuall y created for each smartermail email domain. These keys get created under an IMAIL parent key. So if you have a control panel, and resellers create new email domains, the autowhite registry key for that new email domain won't exist. Autowhite won't process for that domain. You would have to modify your control panel to create the registry key or manually create the keys. Autowhite also has a log option. But it won't log without a syslog daemon on the server. Autowhite needs to have an option to log to a text file -- I wouldn't install anything to support a utility being able to log. -Original Message- From: Kamran Razvan [mailto:kami.l...@clickandpledge.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:01 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Thanks Dave, Just to show you how it works: [AUTOWHITE.1] external1 M:\autowhite\autowhite.exe /LICENSE CODE /R5 /L1 %MAILFROM% %REALRECIPS% -500 [AUTOWHITE.2] external2 M:\autoWhite\autowhite.exe /LICENSE CODE /R5 /L1 %MAILFROM% %REALRECIPS% -100 0 In here if someone is sent an email to a person then the program tracks how many times that email has been emailed to. Next time when the person email s us the program looks at the sender's counter and we add -50 for 1 hit and -100 for 2 hits and more. Effectively if I email someone twice they are whitelisted. Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:48 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on The author is John Tolmachoff of http://www.eservicesforyou.com/products/autowhite.html -Original Message- From: Kamran Razvan [mailto:kami.l...@clickandpledge.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:41 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: FW: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Dave, This program is the exact behavior that autowhite had and one that we are using now. Unfortunately I don't remember who had written it. Anyone remembers? The program works beautifully. Every time I sent an email the person's email address is added a negative weight. We use it in a combo filter and whitelist the person in all future emails. I know the author decided not to work on it anymore but we have been using it for years. Regards, Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea
[Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
I couldn't think of any specific instances where you would not want to whitelist a recipient's address. Obviously nobody should be emailing a spammer. I was tryng to cover the bases for those instances that exist but can't be foreseen yet. Pondering it a little more -- one type of an exclusion that would be needed is if you had a forum where users register and your server sends out a confirmation/activation email. Or you send an email as a result of someone submitting a contact form on your site. In those cases, the from address for your forum or from address from your submission form would be the excluder so that no recipient of email from those automated systems would be given any credit. -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
That actually was a feature already built by someone many moons ago. He was / is a Declude user. It used to be listed on the declude site. http://www.eservicesforyou.com/products/autowhite.html -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
FW: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
Dave, This program is the exact behavior that autowhite had and one that we are using now. Unfortunately I don't remember who had written it. Anyone remembers? The program works beautifully. Every time I sent an email the person's email address is added a negative weight. We use it in a combo filter and whitelist the person in all future emails. I know the author decided not to work on it anymore but we have been using it for years. Regards, Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
The author is John Tolmachoff of http://www.eservicesforyou.com/products/autowhite.html -Original Message- From: Kamran Razvan [mailto:kami.l...@clickandpledge.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:41 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: FW: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Dave, This program is the exact behavior that autowhite had and one that we are using now. Unfortunately I don't remember who had written it. Anyone remembers? The program works beautifully. Every time I sent an email the person's email address is added a negative weight. We use it in a combo filter and whitelist the person in all future emails. I know the author decided not to work on it anymore but we have been using it for years. Regards, Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
Thanks Dave, Just to show you how it works: [AUTOWHITE.1] external1 M:\autowhite\autowhite.exe /LICENSE CODE /R5 /L1 %MAILFROM% %REALRECIPS% -500 [AUTOWHITE.2] external2 M:\autoWhite\autowhite.exe /LICENSE CODE /R5 /L1 %MAILFROM% %REALRECIPS% -100 0 In here if someone is sent an email to a person then the program tracks how many times that email has been emailed to. Next time when the person emails us the program looks at the sender's counter and we add -50 for 1 hit and -100 for 2 hits and more. Effectively if I email someone twice they are whitelisted. Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:48 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on The author is John Tolmachoff of http://www.eservicesforyou.com/products/autowhite.html -Original Message- From: Kamran Razvan [mailto:kami.l...@clickandpledge.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:41 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: FW: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Dave, This program is the exact behavior that autowhite had and one that we are using now. Unfortunately I don't remember who had written it. Anyone remembers? The program works beautifully. Every time I sent an email the person's email address is added a negative weight. We use it in a combo filter and whitelist the person in all future emails. I know the author decided not to work on it anymore but we have been using it for years. Regards, Kami -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
Right on Andy. I agree with you this is why scoring negative weights for good emails rather than whitelisting is a safer option. -Original Message- From: Andy Schmidt [mailto:andy_schm...@hm-software.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 10:03 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I couldn't think of any specific instances where you would not want to whitelist a recipient's address. Obviously nobody should be emailing a spammer. In general, that's reasonable - but certainly not bullet-proof. Since spammers always use other people's email addresses (specially phishing, trojan and virus emails), these messages will now be white-listed instead of being caught. This is specially true when people's mailboxes or PC have been infiltrated (millions of them are) and the malware will send it's infected messages (or links to phishing site) to everyone in THAT person's address book - so that their friends trust the email was being from their friend/acquaintance. All these messages will now be trusted by Imail just because they CLAIM to come from the friend. So - it does open a potentially big garage door for malware link and infected emails to make it past Declude. -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:20 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I couldn't think of any specific instances where you would not want to whitelist a recipient's address. Obviously nobody should be emailing a spammer. I was tryng to cover the bases for those instances that exist but can't be foreseen yet. Pondering it a little more -- one type of an exclusion that would be needed is if you had a forum where users register and your server sends out a confirmation/activation email. Or you send an email as a result of someone submitting a contact form on your site. In those cases, the from address for your forum or from address from your submission form would be the excluder so that no recipient of email from those automated systems would be given any credit. -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
AutoWhite doesn't whitelist, it counterweights. Whether you counterweight enough to be tantamount to whitelisting is up to you and your setup. You should read the documentation for AW (if it is still available) before deciding that a base was not covered. -- Sandy --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on
I agree. We see forging attacks like this periodically. While not every day, there's usually one every week, and when they hit, they hit hard. If we whitelisted or even negative-weighted addresses people sent to, when these attacks hit we would let through a ton of spam. We would _never_ consider this technique, though admittedly our filters are doing well and our leak rate is less than 0.5%. In fact, one of our biggest problems is people who put their own address in the webmail address book and effectively whitelist their own email address, letting through anything that forges. Every time over the past 8 years a customer has complained about spam, that has been the cause. Darin. - Original Message - From: Andy Schmidt andy_schm...@hm-software.com To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 10:03 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I couldn't think of any specific instances where you would not want to whitelist a recipient's address. Obviously nobody should be emailing a spammer. In general, that's reasonable - but certainly not bullet-proof. Since spammers always use other people's email addresses (specially phishing, trojan and virus emails), these messages will now be white-listed instead of being caught. This is specially true when people's mailboxes or PC have been infiltrated (millions of them are) and the malware will send it's infected messages (or links to phishing site) to everyone in THAT person's address book - so that their friends trust the email was being from their friend/acquaintance. All these messages will now be trusted by Imail just because they CLAIM to come from the friend. So - it does open a potentially big garage door for malware link and infected emails to make it past Declude. -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:20 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I couldn't think of any specific instances where you would not want to whitelist a recipient's address. Obviously nobody should be emailing a spammer. I was tryng to cover the bases for those instances that exist but can't be foreseen yet. Pondering it a little more -- one type of an exclusion that would be needed is if you had a forum where users register and your server sends out a confirmation/activation email. Or you send an email as a result of someone submitting a contact form on your site. In those cases, the from address for your forum or from address from your submission form would be the excluder so that no recipient of email from those automated systems would be given any credit. -Original Message- From: David Barker [mailto:dbar...@declude.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:49 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on Great idea Dave thanks. Question. If a user emails a recipient in what scenario would we not want to whitelist the recipients address ? -Original Message- From: Dave Beckstrom [mailto:db...@atving.com] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:45 AM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Idea for new Declude add-on I have an idea for something I think would be a useful add-on for declude. Every time someone sends an outbound SMTP email to someone, the add-on would add an entry to a filter giving the recipient's to address a weight of minus one. Therefore, giving the recipient a credit. Any time the recipient sends an email to my server, minus one gets subtracted from the total score of their email. If a user on my server sends a second email to the same recipient, another minus one credit is added to the filter. Now that recipient has a credit of minus two. The add-on would be configurable to limit the maximum credit a single address could reach. It would also have an exclusion ability where you could enter a list of email addresses that would never receive any credit. The idea being that the more frequently you email someone, the less likely that email from them would be spam. I know some will argue that from addresses can be forged and that perhaps its not a good idea to give credit based on a from address. But its not very often at all I ever receive a spam that came from a friend's forged from address. I think something along the lines of this type of system could be useful. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http
