Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?

2011-06-06 Thread Stefan Mueller
"+1" on that one - Facebook pretty much has first pick on the best talent of
PHP developers worldwide. 

 

They are even actively contributing to the PHP code base and also released a
couple of their own projects under open source (like Apache
Cassandra/Hive/etc, see http://developers.facebook.com/opensource/ ) that
help with scaling. I don't like FB for taking liberties with sharing our
personal information with everyone, but as far as useful contribution to the
developer community goes one can't really complain much about them.

 

The average FB page contains a lot of personalized data - I think the main
reason for any of Rohits perceived fb slowness is that FB has to fetch up to
10-15 groups of data out of memcached/graph-database/mysql/etc and that
takes a bit of time (probably a multitude of what is spend on PHP to
assemble the HTML output).

 


Regards,
Stefan

 

 

From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Neven MacEwan
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 12:22 PM
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?

 

Rohit

I don't subscribe to your view re "rubbish programmers", slowness (or a
certain response speed) may be their target when your revenue is advertising
:-)

Here is one thing they have done with PHP, 

http://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/358/

Mind you I dont use FB

Neven




Neven,

are you implying that facebook uses some sort of compiled language.  As far
as I know it uses php.  Its slowness stems from them using rubbish
programmers.  Every time they make a change - their choices/decisions  makes
things even slower.


On 5/06/2011 10:37 p.m., Neven MacEwan wrote: 

John

Debugging PHP poor? Breakpoints, hover-over variable values, step into what
more do you need? I agree with the speed thing though, No need for compiled
code until you get to facebook  size.

I always thought the concept of a PHP VCL a little strange, The
statelessness of webservers and the limitations of browsers was always going
to make a rich delphi like application builder a hard ask, almost destined
to disappoint. Having said that I wouldn't suggest anyone starting a new
project go for a fat client unless heavy graphic requirement dictated it

Neven



I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely and
easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no matter what
language you use, for more advanced application you got to learn HTML, CSS
and JavaScript any way! 

Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast enough for
most applications (so why bother). I agree that the debugging side of PHP is
a bit poor, but that's all part of website development I suppose. 

I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but never
got to it (should I?).

John C

 

From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Rohit Gupta
Sent: Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m.
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development

 

I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to MS.
Its also very popular.  I started off with Delphi for PHP.  But the
investment in learning it was wasted.  The only thing I use it for is for
debugging now.   There is no vcl in sight.

Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS.  I think you have to , if you
want it efficient.  Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of users not
just hundreds.  It is my spare time project too.  Check it out if you want
7bfaces.com.   You have to signup to see it and note its work in progress.

On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: 

Thanks Berend,

 

I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home in my
spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a job since
about 2005.

 

My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that I'd
need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I make that
commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi successfully on good
advanced web projects - or something else. I know the C#.NET argument is a
pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm resisting that move.

Steve 

 

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer  wrote:

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Peacocke  writes:

   Steve> Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others
   Steve> use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to
   Steve> D2011 or something else?

I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how
many RoR jobs there are in NZ.

Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The
PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works.

But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever
the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit.

--
All the

Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?

2011-06-05 Thread Neven MacEwan

Rohit

I don't subscribe to your view re "rubbish programmers", slowness (or a 
certain response speed) may be their target when your revenue is 
advertising :-)


Here is one thing they have done with PHP,

http://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/358/

Mind you I dont use FB

Neven


Neven,

are you implying that facebook uses some sort of compiled language.  
As far as I know it uses php.  Its slowness stems from them using 
rubbish programmers.  Every time they make a change - their 
choices/decisions  makes things even slower.



On 5/06/2011 10:37 p.m., Neven MacEwan wrote:

John

Debugging PHP poor? Breakpoints, hover-over variable values, step 
into what more do you need? I agree with the speed thing though, No 
need for compiled code until you get to facebook  size.


I always thought the concept of a PHP VCL a little strange, The 
statelessness of webservers and the limitations of browsers was 
always going to make a rich delphi like application builder a hard 
ask, almost destined to disappoint. Having said that I wouldn't 
suggest anyone starting a new project go for a fat client unless 
heavy graphic requirement dictated it


Neven


I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely 
and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no 
matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got 
to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way!


Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast 
enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the 
debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website 
development I suppose.


I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, 
but never got to it (should I?).


John C

*From:*delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz 
[mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Rohit Gupta

*Sent:* Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m.
*To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
*Subject:* Re: [DUG] Web development

I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied 
to MS.  Its also very popular.  I started off with Delphi for PHP.  
But the investment in learning it was wasted.  The only thing I use 
it for is for debugging now.   There is no vcl in sight.


Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS.  I think you have to , if 
you want it efficient.  Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of 
users not just hundreds.  It is my spare time project too.  Check it 
out if you want7bfaces.com.   You have to signup to see it and 
note its work in progress.


On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote:

Thanks Berend,

I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at 
home in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not 
as a job since about 2005.


My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking 
that I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but 
before I make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi 
successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I 
know the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some 
reasons I'm resisting that move.


Steve

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer > wrote:


> "Steve" == Steve Peacocke > writes:


   Steve> Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others
   Steve> use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to
   Steve> D2011 or something else?

I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how
many RoR jobs there are in NZ.

Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The
PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works.

But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever
the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit.

--
All the best,

Berend de Boer


 --


ail and then delete this email and any attachments.


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Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?

2011-06-05 Thread Rohit Gupta

Neven,

are you implying that facebook uses some sort of compiled language.  As 
far as I know it uses php.  Its slowness stems from them using rubbish 
programmers.  Every time they make a change - their choices/decisions  
makes things even slower.



On 5/06/2011 10:37 p.m., Neven MacEwan wrote:

John

Debugging PHP poor? Breakpoints, hover-over variable values, step into 
what more do you need? I agree with the speed thing though, No need 
for compiled code until you get to facebook  size.


I always thought the concept of a PHP VCL a little strange, The 
statelessness of webservers and the limitations of browsers was always 
going to make a rich delphi like application builder a hard ask, 
almost destined to disappoint. Having said that I wouldn't suggest 
anyone starting a new project go for a fat client unless heavy graphic 
requirement dictated it


Neven


I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely 
and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no 
matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got 
to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way!


Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast 
enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the 
debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website 
development I suppose.


I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but 
never got to it (should I?).


John C

*From:*delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz 
[mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Rohit Gupta

*Sent:* Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m.
*To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
*Subject:* Re: [DUG] Web development

I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to 
MS.  Its also very popular.  I started off with Delphi for PHP.  But 
the investment in learning it was wasted.  The only thing I use it 
for is for debugging now.   There is no vcl in sight.


Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS.  I think you have to , if 
you want it efficient.  Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of 
users not just hundreds.  It is my spare time project too.  Check it 
out if you want7bfaces.com.   You have to signup to see it and 
note its work in progress.


On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote:

Thanks Berend,

I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at 
home in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not 
as a job since about 2005.


My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that 
I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I 
make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi 
successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I 
know the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some 
reasons I'm resisting that move.


Steve

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer > wrote:


> "Steve" == Steve Peacocke > writes:


   Steve> Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others
   Steve> use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to
   Steve> D2011 or something else?

I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how
many RoR jobs there are in NZ.

Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The
PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works.

But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever
the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit.

--
All the best,

Berend de Boer


 --


ail and then delete this email and any attachments.



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database 6182 (20110605) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?

2011-06-05 Thread Rohit Gupta

John,

I wouldnt go for Delphi 4 php - the vcl  is a pointless exercise.  
Debugging (when it works - it has a mind of its own) works really well - 
all the delphi debugging facilities.


If you want to go for Delphi for PHP, I would wait for the next version.

Or, my son says that eclipse should do the trick, but I havent tried it.

Rohit

On 5/06/2011 8:20 p.m., John C wrote:


I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely 
and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no 
matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got to 
learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way!


Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast 
enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the 
debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website 
development I suppose.


I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but 
never got to it (should I?).


John C

*From:*delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz 
[mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Rohit Gupta

*Sent:* Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m.
*To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
*Subject:* Re: [DUG] Web development

I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to 
MS.  Its also very popular.  I started off with Delphi for PHP.  But 
the investment in learning it was wasted.  The only thing I use it for 
is for debugging now.   There is no vcl in sight.


Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS.  I think you have to , if 
you want it efficient.  Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of 
users not just hundreds.  It is my spare time project too.  Check it 
out if you want7bfaces.com.   You have to signup to see it and 
note its work in progress.


On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote:

Thanks Berend,

I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home 
in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a 
job since about 2005.


My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that 
I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I 
make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi 
successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I know 
the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm 
resisting that move.


Steve

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer > wrote:


> "Steve" == Steve Peacocke > writes:


   Steve> Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others
   Steve> use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to
   Steve> D2011 or something else?

I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how
many RoR jobs there are in NZ.

Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The
PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works.

But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever
the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit.

--
All the best,

Berend de Boer


 --
 Awesome Drupal hosting: https://www.xplainhosting.com/
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--
Regards

*Rohit Gupta*
B.E. Elec., M.E., Mem IEEE, Member IET
Technical Manager
Computer Fanatics Ltd

*Tel *4892280
*Fax *4892290
*Web *www.cfl.co.nz



This email and any attachments contain information, which is 
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you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, distribute or 
copy this email or attachments. If you have received this in error, 
please notify us immediately by return email and then delete this 
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Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?

2011-06-05 Thread Neven MacEwan

John

Debugging PHP poor? Breakpoints, hover-over variable values, step into 
what more do you need? I agree with the speed thing though, No need for 
compiled code until you get to facebook  size.


I always thought the concept of a PHP VCL a little strange, The 
statelessness of webservers and the limitations of browsers was always 
going to make a rich delphi like application builder a hard ask, almost 
destined to disappoint. Having said that I wouldn't suggest anyone 
starting a new project go for a fat client unless heavy graphic 
requirement dictated it


Neven


I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely 
and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no 
matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got to 
learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way!


Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast 
enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the 
debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website 
development I suppose.


I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but 
never got to it (should I?).


John C

*From:*delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz 
[mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Rohit Gupta

*Sent:* Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m.
*To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
*Subject:* Re: [DUG] Web development

I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to 
MS.  Its also very popular.  I started off with Delphi for PHP.  But 
the investment in learning it was wasted.  The only thing I use it for 
is for debugging now.   There is no vcl in sight.


Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS.  I think you have to , if 
you want it efficient.  Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of 
users not just hundreds.  It is my spare time project too.  Check it 
out if you want7bfaces.com.   You have to signup to see it and 
note its work in progress.


On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote:

Thanks Berend,

I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home 
in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a 
job since about 2005.


My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that 
I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I 
make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi 
successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I know 
the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm 
resisting that move.


Steve

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer > wrote:


> "Steve" == Steve Peacocke > writes:


   Steve> Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others
   Steve> use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to
   Steve> D2011 or something else?

I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how
many RoR jobs there are in NZ.

Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The
PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works.

But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever
the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit.

--
All the best,

Berend de Boer


 --
 Awesome Drupal hosting: https://www.xplainhosting.com/
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
  
http://www.eset.com
  


--
Regards

*Rohit Gupta*
B.E. Elec., M.E., Mem IEEE, Member IET
Technical Manager
Computer Fanatics Ltd

*Tel *4892280
*Fax *4892290
*Web *www.cfl.co.nz



This email and any attachments contain information, which is 
confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, distribute or 
copy this email or attachments. If you have received this in error, 
please noti

Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?

2011-06-05 Thread John C
I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely and
easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no matter what
language you use, for more advanced application you got to learn HTML, CSS
and JavaScript any way! 

Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast enough for
most applications (so why bother). I agree that the debugging side of PHP is
a bit poor, but that's all part of website development I suppose. 

I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but never
got to it (should I?).

John C

 

From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Rohit Gupta
Sent: Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m.
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development

 

I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to MS.
Its also very popular.  I started off with Delphi for PHP.  But the
investment in learning it was wasted.  The only thing I use it for is for
debugging now.   There is no vcl in sight.

Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS.  I think you have to , if you
want it efficient.  Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of users not
just hundreds.  It is my spare time project too.  Check it out if you want
7bfaces.com.   You have to signup to see it and note its work in progress.

On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: 

Thanks Berend,

 

I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home in my
spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a job since
about 2005.

 

My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that I'd
need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I make that
commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi successfully on good
advanced web projects - or something else. I know the C#.NET argument is a
pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm resisting that move.

Steve 

 

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer  wrote:

> "Steve" == Steve Peacocke  writes:

   Steve> Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others
   Steve> use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to
   Steve> D2011 or something else?

I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how
many RoR jobs there are in NZ.

Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The
PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works.

But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever
the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit.

--
All the best,

Berend de Boer


 --
 Awesome Drupal hosting: https://www.xplainhosting.com/
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database 6178 (20110603) __
 
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http://www.eset.com
 

 

-- 
Regards

Rohit Gupta
B.E. Elec., M.E., Mem IEEE, Member IET
Technical Manager
Computer Fanatics Ltd

Tel 4892280 
Fax 4892290 
Web www.cfl.co.nz

  _  

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