[libreoffice-design] How to make templates?

[Kevin Soviero]

Ok, I know I offered to make several templates, and I still intend to do 
so...


However, how do you make an Impress template?  I am completely lost, I 
have the background images made, and they look nice, but I cant figure 
out how to configure font colors, placement, justification, etc...

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Phone: (512) 672-9641

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[libreoffice-design] Calc UI papercuts

[Daniel O'Connor]

Hi all,
I do a lot of work with simple CSVs and text editors. I am a software
engineer who is frequently working with database query results; or "open
data" from places like http://data.australia.gov.au/

I will often:
 1. Open a CSV document
 2. Find and replace a value or set of values
 3. Save it

These two are the papercuts which I trip over most (and still do in
libreoffice 3.3) in the above workflow:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=62729
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73544

Is http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Easy_Hacks the best place to list
these?
Are there other notable pain points in the Load -> Import options ->
Manipulate -> Save process worth discussing? Or any other lists of UI
papercuts (more UX than 'easy programming tasks')?

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Impress(ing) Templates

[Kevin Soviero]

Here is my Wiki page, I will be posting templates as they are finished:  
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Impress_Themes_~ksoviero


In fact a green theme is already there, I am going to convert it to Blue 
and Orange later.


I would also like to submit a complaint:  The wiki is setup to not allow 
".otp" (Presentation Template) files!?


On 01/30/2011 10:20 PM, Luca Candela wrote:

I really like this idea.



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Impress(ing) Templates

[Luca Candela]

I really like this idea.

-- 
Luca Candela
Sent with Sparrow
On Sunday, January 30, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Kevin Soviero wrote:

> As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of 
> templates from OOo Impress is terrible. I was wondering if I were to 
> make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for 
> Impress, if we could get them included by default?
> 
> -- 
> Kevin Soviero
> Email: ksovi...@gmail.com 
> Phone: (512) 672-9641
> 
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> 
> 





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[libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

[Kevin Soviero]

As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of 
templates from OOo Impress is terrible.  I was wondering if I were to 
make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for 
Impress, if we could get them included by default?


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Phone: (512) 672-9641

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[David Nelson]

Hi Bernhard, :-)

The text underneath "LibreOffice" extends beyond the word
"LibreOffice" on the right. It doesn't look well-aligned to me. Could
you shift it leftwards maybe?

2 cents. ;-)

David Nelson

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[drew]

On Mon, 2011-01-31 at 00:41 +0100, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> Hi Drew, *
> 
> drew schrieb:
> > On Sun, 2011-01-30 at 23:12 +0100, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> based on a SC decision to provide logos for external use without the
> >> subline "The Document Foundation" I created a proposal:
> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png
> >>
> >
> > One comment - request.
> >
> > If there is to be a 'can't change' license then it would by very nice to
> > have one with only the word LibreOffice, particularly for the community
> > supporter logo as the addition of the application icon, IMO, adds to
> > much width to the overall look.
> 
> I think we'll allow usage of the word alone (as it is already mentioned 
> in the Branding Guidelines) and provide such logos too.
> 
> But I think we have to keep enough white space around the text to keep 
> it distinct from the surrounding.
> 
> Do you think this is enough?

IMO yes.

On white space generally- I've never had a problem with the white space
requirements, IMO often more then the required amount makes a better
overall look anyway. The only _problem_ I've had with the logo is due to
the width overall, and then only when forced into a small size overall.
That however is tough to avoid when the design is text based, and
dropping 'The Document Foundation' line goes a long way towards
mitigating that issue.

Thanks for putting this together,

Drew


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Migrating from Mail Listing to Forum

[Drini Nosi]

I am new to the mailing list system, and also new to contributing to an 
opensource project, but I have been a modarator and supermodarator on a forum. 
I find it harder to read what's going on on the mailing list then on the forum.

List or threads of the forum can also be downloaded for later or offline review.

I pro, if this issue is considered, to a forum system with RSS, then to the 
actual mailing list because so far Iam lost to understand and follow what is 
going on. Not to say to contribute.

:)

Sent from my iPhone

On 30/gen/2011, at 18:52, "Octavio Alvarez"  wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:15:38 -0800, Paulo José  wrote:
> 
>> Hi everybody!
>> 
>> I personally like the forum format and believe that our productivity would 
>> be increased in a power by 2 using it in long discussions and interactive 
>> activities, thanks to its advantages. Well, what do you think about it? Is 
>> this a possibility to be discussed now?
> 
> I am for mailing lists.
> 
> Having used both on a day-to-day basis, having access to broadband and
> having experienced both in a user and administrative levels, any kind of
> development should be done on mailing lists.
> 
> Besides all of the things that have already been said about both
> technologies (accessibility, capacity, threading, etc.) nobody has ever
> mentioned the capability of mailing lists to know *who replied to who* in
> mailing lists, not so in forums. To me, this beats every feature of a
> forum. Forums have quoting, but that is a different feature, that mail
> clients have too.
> 
> Also, everybody can use whatever client they see fit and are not tied to
> an interface. I use the mail client that best suits me and it is not the
> same it best suits you.
> 
> Also, a simple forum bug introduced in a simple redesign can break it for
> a wide variety of browsers.
> 
> Also, depending on the mail client I can keep a local copy of whatever
> message I'm interested in. I'm using IMAP so I can access it from any of
> my workstations. I can just go to my mail client and read that message
> again without having to remember on what board was it discussed (and the
> search function on forums usually suck).
> 
> -- 
> Octavio.
> 
> Twitter: @alvarezp2000 -- Identi.ca: @alvarezp
> 
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Drew, *

drew schrieb:

On Sun, 2011-01-30 at 23:12 +0100, Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Hi all,

based on a SC decision to provide logos for external use without the
subline "The Document Foundation" I created a proposal:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png



One comment - request.

If there is to be a 'can't change' license then it would by very nice to
have one with only the word LibreOffice, particularly for the community
supporter logo as the addition of the application icon, IMO, adds to
much width to the overall look.


I think we'll allow usage of the word alone (as it is already mentioned 
in the Branding Guidelines) and provide such logos too.


But I think we have to keep enough white space around the text to keep 
it distinct from the surrounding.


Do you think this is enough?

Best regards

Bernhard

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RE: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[Mark Curtis]

So it's either LibreOffice or OpenOffice.org? 
That's disappointing, but thanks for the clarification.

> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 00:10:52 +0100
> From: bernh...@familie-dippold.at
> To: design@libreoffice.org
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line
> 
> Hi Mark, all,
> 
> Mark Curtis schrieb:
> >
> > So does this mean LibreOffice is the official name and not a
> > temporary one like was originally stated?
> >
> 
> Since Oracle declined to donate the OpenOffice.org trademark, we go with 
> this name as official name.
> 
> We're still open for any kind of cooperation, but I don't think that
> - even if we would get the trademark in the near future - we give up our 
> new name that becomes more and more known in public and covers another 
> important part of our mission: Freedom instead of Openness.
> 
> But as this "if" is so unlikely at the moment, we don't have to discuss 
> this option at all. If they approach TDF one day, this discussion can 
> start then...
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Bernhard
> 
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[drew]

On Sun, 2011-01-30 at 23:12 +0100, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> based on a SC decision to provide logos for external use without the 
> subline "The Document Foundation" I created a proposal:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png
> 

One comment - request.

If there is to be a 'can't change' license then it would by very nice to
have one with only the word LibreOffice, particularly for the community
supporter logo as the addition of the application icon, IMO, adds to
much width to the overall look.

Thanks

Drew


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[drew]

On Sun, 2011-01-30 at 23:12 +0100, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> based on a SC decision to provide logos for external use without the 
> subline "The Document Foundation" I created a proposal:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png

Hola Bernhard,

They are quite nice.

//drew


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Migrating from Mail Listing to Forum

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Paulo, all,

Paulo José schrieb:

Hi all,

I think any proposal to remove the mail listing to use just the forum
is impossible and this discussion is totally unnecessary. :/


It is not unnecessary - we need to find the best way to handle our tasks.

And this means to re-evaluate the options from time to time.

If somebody could spend some time to collect the different pros and cons
together with the needs and workflows on a wiki page, this would
probably lead to a resource we (not only Design, but the entire
community - especially the Website Team) could use for any iteration in
future.


What I'm proposing, *again*, is just "lets keep both ways"... We
actually can do that, it is *not* a binary choice. :)


If we don't start to spread information even more than today, I'm all
for it.


Bernhard, maybe you could help me with these issues:


Andy already replied to some points, but I try to show you how I do it


1. How to put all related emails in an only thread? Everyday a new
email from an old threat appears in the mail listing as a new thread,
creating duplicate threads. It make the search for a specific email a
painful task.


There are two points to mention:

a) Sometimes people use mail clients that don't provide the thread
information in the mail's headers, so there is no direct relation
between the split thread. This is more likely for webmail and mobiles,
but I can't solve this problem.
Some mail clients create a thread by comparing the subject, if there is
no thread info, but this doesn't work with modified mail subjects.

b) I read about Gmail problems with threads once or twice in the past.
It seems that Gmail doesn't use the thread info in the headers, but only
relies on the subject. As different mail clients add [Re:] and the list
name in several orders, each of them might be looked at as a new thread
by Gmail.


2. How to link for an specific thread in a easy way. Currently, I
need go to the mail listing website and search manually for the
thread. There's no way to link an email message.


Linking to a thread is not as easy as linking to a mail.
As Andy already told you, the archive information is part of the
headers, so it can be found there quite easily with an email client
allowing to show and hide the full headers with a click.

To find the thread, you need to go to the web archive (you can just
follow the link in the header) and find a link to the thread. In
mail-archive.com (where the link goes to) you might just copy the link
at the left upper corner reading "Thread
".

3. How can I see my own messages in my mail Inbox, together with the
 thread? (How it should suppose to be). Sometimes its annoying to see
a reply to an your message that is not there.


This is truly a Gmail problem. I don't know any other mail client
hiding your own message from the thread.

But in the Gmail Options there should be a tick mark to avoid this
behavior (I might be wrong - perhaps you'll have to Google for help.


4. How to see a only thread in a plain view (not like a tree view).
Sometimes the order of answers in the tree view just not make sense.


Here with my mail client (SeaMonkey, Thunderbird should be quite
similar) I like the tree view very much, because I read the mails in the
"right" order.

If I don't like this order, I copy the subject in the search line
(provided that the subject didn't change during the thread) and get a
list of mails with this subject in the order I like (date, sender, etc).

I don't need this option very often, but in seldom cases it helps.


All these issues could be solved integrating the mail listing to a
forum. We could create any restrictions to made both compatible.


Most of these issues are similar (if not even better) solvable with a
good mail client.

You wrote that you use Thunderbird, so I suggest to have this archive as
the main resource, because it is much easier to use and configure than
Gmail.

For your questions:

1. Did you have a look at the threads in Thunderbird?
In my experience with SeaMonkey, more than 90% of the mails are threaded
correctly (there might be one or two sub-threads, but they are found
easily, as you can expand and close all the thread by just typing "*"
and "\".

2. SeaMonkey/Thunderbird shows only the main headers (4 lines) in
standard behavior. If you "show all" (via menu), this area is extended
to eight lines. You need to scroll down the header area until you find
the entry "Archived-At:". Make sure that you remove the "<" and ">" 
signs from the link when you copy&paste it, because the closing bracket 
would cause a wrong link.


3. is standard behavior

4. already replied to above.

We didn't talk about filters yet.

Please have a look at the filters option in Thunderbird. You can send 
some mails to different folders, add marks (e.g. if your name is 
mentioned in the text), delete unwanted mails directly and many more.


I have filters for the different mailing lists, allowing me to see on 
the first sight, how many new mai

Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Mark, all,

Mark Curtis schrieb:


So does this mean LibreOffice is the official name and not a
temporary one like was originally stated?



Since Oracle declined to donate the OpenOffice.org trademark, we go with 
this name as official name.


We're still open for any kind of cooperation, but I don't think that
- even if we would get the trademark in the near future - we give up our 
new name that becomes more and more known in public and covers another 
important part of our mission: Freedom instead of Openness.


But as this "if" is so unlikely at the moment, we don't have to discuss 
this option at all. If they approach TDF one day, this discussion can 
start then...


Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Andy, *

Andy Brown schrieb:

On Sun Jan 30 2011 14:12:26 GMT-0800 (PST)  Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Hi all,

based on a SC decision to provide logos for external use without the
subline "The Document Foundation" I created a proposal:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png

[...]



+1

Only question, when would the individual logos be available?


I hope, very soon :-)

They need approval by the SC, we'll have to find the right license for 
them (probably an open source license for unchanged use) and have the 
trademark policy close to final for proper use.


Perhaps some of the logos need some preconditions to use them (approval 
by the Membership Committee for official community members, something 
similar for community distributors and so on), so I can't tell you 
exactly when these logos will be available for use.


But this topic will probably be discussed by the SC in one of their next 
meetings (therefore CC'd the SC list), so this should not take too long.


Best regards

Bernhard

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RE: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[Mark Curtis]

So does this mean LibreOffice is the official name and not a temporary one like 
was originally stated?

> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 23:12:26 +0100
> From: bernh...@familie-dippold.at
> To: design@libreoffice.org
> Subject: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> based on a SC decision to provide logos for external use without the 
> subline "The Document Foundation" I created a proposal:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png
> 
> Such a logo should be used for community members, supporters, 
> distributors and so on to avoid the impression of being an official 
> spokesperson for the community or the foundation.
> 
> I replaced the TDF symbol by the main application icon (with Paulo's 
> shadings) and added a smaller subline that ends in every case at the 
> same position, but can be replaced in the SVG source quite easily.
> 
> Do you think we can present this logo (or something similar) to the 
> Steering Committee as our Design Team proposal for an official logo of 
> LibreOffice for external use?
> 
> Comments? Critics? Improvements?
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Bernhard
> 
> PS: I uploaded the source file with the same address, just ending on ".svg"
> 
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[Andy Brown]

On Sun Jan 30 2011 14:12:26 GMT-0800 (PST)  Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Hi all,

based on a SC decision to provide logos for external use without the 
subline "The Document Foundation" I created a proposal:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png

Such a logo should be used for community members, supporters, 
distributors and so on to avoid the impression of being an official 
spokesperson for the community or the foundation.


I replaced the TDF symbol by the main application icon (with Paulo's 
shadings) and added a smaller subline that ends in every case at the 
same position, but can be replaced in the SVG source quite easily.


Do you think we can present this logo (or something similar) to the 
Steering Committee as our Design Team proposal for an official logo of 
LibreOffice for external use?


Comments? Critics? Improvements?

Best regards

Bernhard

PS: I uploaded the source file with the same address, just ending on ".svg"



+1

Only question, when would the individual logos be available?

Andy

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[libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi all,

based on a SC decision to provide logos for external use without the 
subline "The Document Foundation" I created a proposal:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png

Such a logo should be used for community members, supporters, 
distributors and so on to avoid the impression of being an official 
spokesperson for the community or the foundation.


I replaced the TDF symbol by the main application icon (with Paulo's 
shadings) and added a smaller subline that ends in every case at the 
same position, but can be replaced in the SVG source quite easily.


Do you think we can present this logo (or something similar) to the 
Steering Committee as our Design Team proposal for an official logo of 
LibreOffice for external use?


Comments? Critics? Improvements?

Best regards

Bernhard

PS: I uploaded the source file with the same address, just ending on ".svg"

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Work Items List cleaned (a bit)

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Ivan!

Am Sonntag, den 30.01.2011, 17:23 +1300 schrieb Ivan M.:
> Hi Paulo, Christoph, all,
> 
> 2011/1/30 Paulo José :
> > Christoph, well done work!
> >
> > I admit I was a bit confused with the previous page, but now all these
> > informations are clearer and very well organized. :) Now, let's get to work!
> > :D
> 
> +1. It's good to see us making progress.

:-)

[...]

> I have two suggestions for the page:

Good points, I've just added stuff over the time, but did not invest the
time to update the whole page ...

> 1) Confirm "Create / Refine Branding Roadmap" (it has been 'Proposed'
> for long enough and I think there is good consensus around it)
Done.

> 2) Due to recent decisions, remove "Create Artwork for the Drupal Website"
Done.

I've revised some of the other entries as well, it should now be okay.
All, if you think something is missing or wrong, then please go ahead
and correct it ... in this case, it would be great if you could send a
"ping" to the page if this change might be interesting for the other
team members.

Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Some help in my current work

[Björn Balazs]

Hi Paulo, all

Am Sonntag, 30. Januar 2011, 12:19:04 schrieb Paulo José:
> Hi all!
> 
> Since I came to LibreOffice design "team" (what's wrong with this word?
> hauahauaha) I started to work in some subjects. For one in particullar I
> would like to ask more help.
> 
> It's the issue about the wizard dialog. Two days ago I made two HTML
> mock-ups of this wizard and I would be very grateful if some people
> could spend some time to interact with it and give me some feedback
> about which direction to take. :)
> 
> The original email is in:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00548.html
> 
> Also if more people can join us, Björn, Cedric and me, in this work, it
> would be great! :)

Good you wrote this mail, because I simply missed the mail you are 
referencing. Very, very sorry about that - I would have given you feedback 
much earlier. Don't want to start picking again about signal / noise ration in 
Mailinglist :) - I simply have to get much better organized that this does not 
happen in future again!

For feedback I will switch to the orginal thread again - even though I cannot 
answer to your mail directly.

Sorry again,
Björn

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Migrating from Mail Listing to Forum

[Octavio Alvarez]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:15:38 -0800, Paulo José  wrote:


Hi everybody!

I personally like the forum format and believe that our productivity  
would be increased in a power by 2 using it in long discussions and  
interactive activities, thanks to its advantages. Well, what do you  
think about it? Is this a possibility to be discussed now?


I am for mailing lists.

Having used both on a day-to-day basis, having access to broadband and
having experienced both in a user and administrative levels, any kind of
development should be done on mailing lists.

Besides all of the things that have already been said about both
technologies (accessibility, capacity, threading, etc.) nobody has ever
mentioned the capability of mailing lists to know *who replied to who* in
mailing lists, not so in forums. To me, this beats every feature of a
forum. Forums have quoting, but that is a different feature, that mail
clients have too.

Also, everybody can use whatever client they see fit and are not tied to
an interface. I use the mail client that best suits me and it is not the
same it best suits you.

Also, a simple forum bug introduced in a simple redesign can break it for
a wide variety of browsers.

Also, depending on the mail client I can keep a local copy of whatever
message I'm interested in. I'm using IMAP so I can access it from any of
my workstations. I can just go to my mail client and read that message
again without having to remember on what board was it discussed (and the
search function on forums usually suck).

--
Octavio.

Twitter: @alvarezp2000 -- Identi.ca: @alvarezp

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Re: [libreoffice-design] CSS Styles for Website (Was: Problem with CSS)

[Jaron Kuppers]

Hi Ivan and Paulo,

Please see [1] some new icons that use the correct shadowing.  There are
three different iterations of design (very subtle differences) which can be
mixed and matched based on what people like.  Essentially the top row is a
reworked "old" style (incorrect shadowing) but may be useful at some later
date for button clicks or the like.  Then the bottom 3 rows are the new
icons.  I attempted to use the "Vegur" font for the "i", "!", and "?" to be
consistent with other LibO themes; however it had to be modified to be
practical for the icons.  Frankly I very much dislike the "?" in the Vegur
font and if people think its okay I can redesign the icons with non-Vegur
font characters.

Let me know what you like, dislike or if you want me to rework them
entirely.  Also, is there a wiki page for this topic?  I can upload my
source file.

Cheers,
Jaron

[1] https://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5568013638479025490





On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Jaron Kuppers wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> FYI, I am working on Ivan's request for more appropriate "images."
> Actually I am done but have a busy evening so won't be able to send the
> final product until tomorrow morning (USA time).
>
> Cheers,
> Jaron
>
>
>
> 2011/1/28 Paulo José 
>
> Hey Ivan, great job!
>>
>> I liked your CSS styles and I love how you made use of :after, :before and
>> box-shadow! They look great in both Firefox and Chrome. Did you test in
>> Internet Explorer [Oh, the horror]? :P Anyway, really really good job, man!
>> :D
>>
>> Just a think that came to me now... Would be great if you'll make some
>> examples of Jquery use, I don't know, maybe in galleries, slideshows, these
>> cool things. Or even of CSS transsitions! :)
>>
>> Thank you for your effort! This is much appreciate!
>> ~Paulo
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28-01-2011 09:32, Ivan M. wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Near the very end of the confcall, we discussed the need for a wider
>>> range of CSS styles on the website. I have created a few to get the
>>> ball rolling - you can see them at [1]. The CSS pertaining to these
>>> styles can be found at [2]
>>>
>>> Please feel free to propose other styles (especially text styles that
>>> can be used to make text-heavy pages a little more interesting).
>>> I was also wondering if someone could create more fitting images
>>> (information, warning, error, etc) which are in line with our branding
>>> style (e.g. using inner shadows and LibO colors)? The ones there are
>>> intended to be temporary and were sourced from [3].
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Ivan.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> [1] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/index.html
>>> [2] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/new.css
>>> [3] http://itweek.deviantart.com/art/Knob-Buttons-Toolbar-icons-73463960
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Paulo José O. Amaro
>> Computer Science Student
>> Federal University of São João del-Rei
>> WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
>> Blogger / casatwain.com
>>
>>
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>> design+h...@libreoffice.org
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>>
>>
>

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Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Proposal for the "Cross-Reference" dialog

[Björn Balazs]

Hi Paolo, all,

just copying your mail from the archive in here, because I lost your original 
mail (see my other mail sent from a wrong account so it needs some time for 
approval, I guess)!

Paolo wrote:
> I have done some progress in the Fields dialog (or Cross-Reference, as 
previously referred).Some points we must take into account, beyond what 
already said by Bjorn and me, is the number of clicks needed to complete a 
task versus how easy is to do them (by easy, I mean the distance between the 
two clicks and how clear is their visibility on the screen). Thinking about 
it, I made two mock-ups in HTML & CSS to the Wizard proposal. I just made the 
first step suggested by Björn, so there is not options for each task yeat.
> You can interact with them in:
> http://linkedej.com.br/libreofice-paulo/LibreOffice-Fields-Mockup-1.html
> http://linkedej.com.br/libreofice-paulo/LibreOffice-Fields-Mockup-2.html
> (Just tested in Firefox and Chrome)
> 
> The first proposal has in the first step just 2 task options: Set a field & 
Insert a field. The second step allow to set the field type and configure its 
proprieties. Done!
> 
> The second proposal has in the first step the choose of field type in each 
task (Set and Insert). The second step just allow to configure the field 
proprieties. Done!
> 
> In the Proposal 1, each task takes 2 or 3 clicks to be done. In the Proposal 
2, 2 clicks ever. But think is easier complete a task inProposal 1 than 2 
because it takes more time to look all possibilities now in the first step 
than just choose between 2 actions and then refine your choice.
> 
> If there is any a better way to present the Step 1 in the Proposal 2, 
keeping its 2 clicks and allowing easy to eye choise, I'd like to know. :D
> 
> Björn, I hope one of these proposals fit to your ideas. otherwise, please 
say me then I make a new mockup. :) I'd like to know your opinion on our next 
steps.

First of all: Thank you - great work! 

Your mocks point us to the unsolved fundations I wanted to work on today, but 
unfortunately won't come to. But I will spend a couple of hours in a train 
tomorrow, so I am optimistic I get to some results then.

The fundations we need to understand, before we can actually find a really 
good interface solution is a clustering of the different types of fields. You 
have done the clustering by "New" and "Existing". I am not 100% convinced this 
is the best clustering, because it is too general. 

I would like to find someting between perhaps 5 to 10 (ideal would be 7 - 
remember the limitations in the human short term memory) categories, the user 
can decide in the first step. Each presenting again 5 to 10 fields that in the 
next step can be configured (would give us room for up to 100 different types 
of fields we can add to LibO, so making this a sustainable solution for 
whatever kind of fields will be added in the future). 

My main problem here is, that I do not understand all types of fields 
available - which would be very helpful if trying to find a decent 
clustering...

Additionally we should introduce some comfort functionallity like a filter 
mechanism, recently used or perhaps even favorite fields for quick retrival of 
the wanted fields.

Summing it up: Version 2 is much better than version 1, but still leaves room 
for further improvement.

Ok, more - including some mocks and a suggestion for a clustering - hopefully 
tomorrow.

Best,
Björn

Am Dienstag, 25. Januar 2011, 14:11:39 schrieb Paulo José:
> Hi Björn! :)
> 
> On 24-01-2011 14:26, Björn Balazs wrote:
> > My appologies for not stronger pointing to this being a thread. But I
> > think this:
> > [...]
> > is not a waste of time, because you had the time to get to know this
> > dialogue much better and hey - we need to iterate towards a good
> > solution anyhow.
> 
> Yeah, you're totally right! :D
> 
> > So how can this dialogue be improved?
> > 
> > I think the approach of a tabbed interface is wrong in the first place.
> > Why?
> > 
> > What do user do in here? They want to INSERT a field / variable etc. or
> > CONFIGURE the set field.
> 
> I would include that user can insert Databases to document. Perhaps this
> should not be here... :)
> 
> > What will user NOT do in here? User do not want to change a set field to
> > something totally different in this dialogue. If they want to do so,
> > they can simply delete the set field and add a new one.
> 
> For sure! ;) Great point!
> 
> > What is the conclusion? 1. We need to make it as easy as possible to
> > find the right field for the user.  2. We need to make it as easy as
> > possible to configure the set field (e.g. update the date in a fixed
> > date field).
> 
> Yeah, and it includes make it easier to user search and finds an
> existent reference (or another field), like Cedric initially had
> pointed, because could be many of them in a big document.
> 
> > How can we achieve this?
> > 1. We need a wizard, that really helps the user to find the fiel

[libreoffice-design] Some help in my current work

[Paulo José]

Hi all!

Since I came to LibreOffice design "team" (what's wrong with this word? 
hauahauaha) I started to work in some subjects. For one in particullar I 
would like to ask more help.


It's the issue about the wizard dialog. Two days ago I made two HTML 
mock-ups of this wizard and I would be very grateful if some people 
could spend some time to interact with it and give me some feedback 
about which direction to take. :)


The original email is in: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00548.html


Also if more people can join us, Björn, Cedric and me, in this work, it 
would be great! :)


Thanks in advance!
~Paulo

--
Paulo José O. Amaro
Computer Science Student
Federal University of São João del-Rei
WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
Blogger / casatwain.com

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Migrating from Mail Listing to Forum

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Paulo!

Please let me add some thoughts, since I perceive this situation in a
very similar way - and, because you spent the effort to describe the
situation very well and since you already proposed solutions (which is
rare, by the way).

Am Sonntag, den 30.01.2011, 01:00 -0200 schrieb Paulo José:
> Hi Bernhard!
> 
> I read your both emails (short and long version) and I really perceived 
> your point. I actually understand that is not a question for now and 
> maybe neither for the near future, too because there was many 
> unproductive discussions about it.

If such discussions take place, it is rather similar to Usability or UX
stuff. The tools are sometimes rather simple, but sometimes this is
given due to constraints and needs - providing access to anyone and in
any situation. This is what made the community so successful.
(Example: There are countries where people still have to pay huge sums
according to the data traffic. Here, LibreOffice is distributed via DVD
- but the main point is: people can participate in the main project.
Something, our competitors will never achieve.)

But, as you said, there are drawbacks. Since we get more and more known,
we have to consider the "even more normal" users, that expect a more
modern way of communication (given the expectations in industrial
countries). But let's focus on "us", being the ones who want to improve
cooperation.

I thought a bit how to improve the cooperation. Thus, I've send some
questions to Christian who currently manages some parts of the
infrastructure. Since - for some people - this seems to be a very
personal issue (as Bernhard stated), I did this in a private mail and
will report back. I hope this is okay ...

> So it's alright for me. ;) I already do use of all the provided features 
> (folders, stars, automatic filters, thread view... ) by my mail clients 
> (Thunderbird and Google Gmail), but I'll try learn more about using mail 
> listing to make it a better experience. If you all have been done it for 
> years, I can do it too for sure. :)

It is never wrong to point out, that we are wrong :-)

But since this topic came up before, I'd like to add something I've
wrote to another person. And maybe this is also some "inspiration" how I
handle the hundreds of mails per day ... something we talked about in
another mail :-)

Cheers,
Christoph

How Christoph handles his mail:
> Let's first state, that no tool is available (or even will be available)
> that makes it easy to sum up information - data mining techniques are
> still rather limited, so ... there is a lot of information that is made
> available. And although "principles" should lead the community, there
> are still many posts that fail with regard to the current focus and that
> will flood any tool :-)
> 
> For example, people dropping a mail that they dislike something, that
> they want to have something (count the number of mails: LibO on
> iPhone/Android, or radically new UI) - it is important to them. So it
> will be sent. My point is, that skilled people will have to make sure to
> shape and to conserve information that matters. Moreover, the community
> develops some self-regulation ... so yes, mails are inefficient in some
> cases. But so is any other communication tool on a very low level (low
> entry barriers, near to instant communication).
> 
> Maybe I cannot convince you at all - but let me try to explain how I
> deal with this data:
>   * I'm subscribed to numerous mailing lists (TDF, LibO, OOo, ...)
>   * My IMAP account receives the mails, filters them, and moves them
> into sub-folders
>   * The IMAP account is accessible via a webmail interface (so I can
> even access mails in hotels etc.)
>   * I can also access the information via my mobile
>   * I usually work on my mails in the evening at my desktop computer
> (which integrates well with the desktop wide search that indexes
> all the mails)
> 
> So, getting hundreds of mails each day, I (amongst many others) have to
> deal with the mass of information somehow. For example, if there is some
> time, I usually scan through the mails on my mobile (writing is not that
> comfortable). The ones that are important get marked, and get worked on
> in the evening - because my mail client then highlights those.
> 
> Moreover, I can synchronize my mail client with the IMAP server, so I
> can work offline - e.g. when sitting in the train. Or, you have
> sufficient alternatives when some regulations (e.g. staying in hotels)
> don't give you full access to the Internet (e.g. when at LinuxTag in
> Berlin, or during the OOo Conference in Beijing, ...).
> 
> Some of the issues I experienced are pretty similar to other
> (developing) countries. Using my mobile, I regularly experience network
> unavailability and I'm also happy if the used bandwidth is rather low
> (since it also adds not too much costs to the other LibO expenses).
> 
> But you've also talked about persistence -