[libreoffice-design] Re: [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

2011-03-08 Thread Sébastien Le Ray
Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +,
Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com a écrit :

 Hi Sebastien,
 
 On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 23:42 +0100, Sébastien Le Ray wrote:
  Here is a complete patch for fdo#31251. It adds a smooth shadow to
  the page.
 
   Wow - it is really pretty indeed :-) I just pushed it. Nice
 work ! can you confirm is it LGPLv3+/MPL ?
 
   Incidentally, it would be lovely to have the post-it notes,
 not only to have a border, but to have curved corners at the bottom,
 but not the top, so they really look like sticky notes. ie. take a
 sticky note an stick it flat on your desk, and you see the effect
 [ both bottom corners curl slightly ] ;-) possibly that will require
 some (manual?) re-coloring action of the bitmaps, which might be
 slightly painful, though I guess it is just a matter of keeping a
 constant AlphaMask bitmap around, and merging it into a BitmapEx with
 a Bitmap (of the same size obviously) 'Erase'd with the correct color
 for the note.
 
  During its development, I found that SwRect::_Intersection (used in
  page margin painting) returns negative height/width if the two
  rectangles do not overlap. I don't know if it is the expected
  behavior or a bug. If it's a bug I guess I can provide a patch.
 
   Ho hum - probably a difficult one to audit for, to check
 every location to ensure they are not depending on this. Possibly it
 makes the impl. faster too (?).
 
   Well worth documenting though in the API.
 
   Thanks !
 
   Michael.


Hi,

this simple shadow patch has generated a long discussion on
Libreoffice-design. Some people don't like the color, some people don't
like the amount of blur, some people want no shadow at all, some people
want a 4 borders shadow. So here is a second patchset that tries to
address the first three critics :
 - It adds a configuration option (in Appearance category) to set shadow
   color. It currently defaults to gray but I'm sure design team will
   find a more sensitive default :
 - It adds a configuration option to disable shadow;
 - It doesn't use bitmaps directly anymore but an alpha mask, so if
   people want to try another blur effect, they just have to edit
   images.zip:/sw/res/page-*-shadow-mask.png These are black  white
   image. Black amount determines transparency, white being fully
   transparent. Here again, I'm sure that design people will find a
   better default. Only constraints are 1x10px for bottom shadow,
   10x10px for corner and 10x1px for right shadow.
I'll let design team play and discuss with that, when they agree on a
default, I'll provide an additional patch to take it into account.

Note: I had to perform a make dev-install for settings to be correctly
saved.

Regards

Sébastien

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[libreoffice-design] Re: [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

2011-03-08 Thread Michael Meeks
Hi Sebastien,

On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 09:09 +0100, Sébastien Le Ray wrote:
 this simple shadow patch has generated a long discussion on
 Libreoffice-design. Some people don't like the color, some people don't
 like the amount of blur, some people want no shadow at all, some people
 want a 4 borders shadow. So here is a second patchset that tries to
 address the first three critics :

So - firstly, this -sounds- like an interaction disaster :-) I hope it
is not of course, but it looks like this:

We finally get a competant, enthusiastic, motivated developer -
actually fixing our horrible user interface problems: and he does some
great improvement - and our design guys apparently emit a long stream of
complaining left and right ! That, if true, is hard to excuse.

We need to greet new guys with a torrent of encouragement instead I
think. I hope I'm wrong - I don't read the design list because I can't
interact there [ Reply-To: mangling sucks ;-] - but this paragraph
smells problematic. I think we need to remember that the perfect is the
sworn enemy of the good - so lets get good across the code, before we
get perfect.

Perhaps we should move all programmer interaction on design / UI topics
onto this list, or a new Freedesktop one - and leave the 'design' list
as more of a 'discuss' type forum.

Sebastien, I hear the complaints; and I read your nice patches (and
just pushed them[1]), but did you really want to do all of this ? If
not, I'll revert what you don't like. Personally, I would have preferred
you to move on to some other fun / high-impact win, rather than getting
bogged down in random details here ;-)

You did a great job learning how the .src / etc. madness works
though :-) good stuff there, it is not completely obvious.

  - It adds a configuration option
..
 - It adds a configuration option to disable shadow;

In my experience of user interaction - adding configuration options is
a cowardly, and silly way to deal with disagreements about defaults :-)
[ not your fault, the design team's issue; check out the settings dialog
in any Apple product ].

IMHO we badly need to hide / remove tons of our pointless configuration
options - which incidentally also slow down program execution, slow down
our startup, bloat our user interface, make testing harder, and thus our
code buggier and so on. [ At least, I'm willing to argue that in detail
but ... ;-]

Personally, I liked what Sebastian did originally - it was sufficiently
better to be really nice; was there any real need to bloat the feature,
further complicate the code, and discuss this minutia to death ? do I
really need a green page shadow ?

 I'll let design team play and discuss with that, when they agree on a
 default, I'll provide an additional patch to take it into account.

Thanks for your patience Sebastien, I'd just recommend moving onto
something else at speed ;-)

 Note: I had to perform a make dev-install for settings to be correctly
 saved.

Ah yes - this is a mis-feature of linkoo - that we don't link the
configuration data (possibly we cannot if it is processed in some way -
but perhaps we can do better; cf. solenv/bin/linkoo).

Anyhow - nice patches; but a pain to commit (lots of modules) can you
go through the process here and mail me the bug # please ? then
hopefully you can push your changes yourself:

http://freedesktop.org/wiki/AccountRequests

Thanks !

Michael.

[1] - I'd still feel happier if we could have the bitmaps as member
variables somewhere, rather than 
-- 
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RE: [libreoffice-design] Request for file

2011-03-08 Thread Daniel Merker
Hi,



Thanks for the help, but do you have your other submission in SVG: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DesignTeam_MotifCreation_Idea_Christoph_TriangleForms.png?



You’re still awesome in my book though ^_^



-Daniel Merker



-Original Message-
From: Christoph Noack [mailto:christ...@dogmatux.com]
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 4:35 PM
To: design@libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Request for file



Hi Daniel,



I'm sorry - I was so happy to at least provide something, that I missed to 
provide the source files :-)



Okay, here you go:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:2011-03-06_DesignTeam_MotifCreation_Idea_Christoph.svg



A link is also on:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif#Brainstorming



Cheers,

Christoph



Am Montag, den 07.03.2011, 19:25 + schrieb Daniel Merker:

 Can Anyone provide me the svg of this design: 
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DesignTeam_MotifCreation_Idea_Christoph_TriangleForms.png?
  I was hoping to play with it for a motif submission.



 -Daniel Merker











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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar

2011-03-08 Thread Kohei Yoshida
On Mon, 2011-03-07 at 11:29 -0500, Kohei Yoshida wrote:
 On Sun, 2011-03-06 at 19:49 -0300, Paulo José wrote:
  Replying quickly (Today my Father came to visit me in my current city! :-D):
  
  Thank you for the feedback! Perfectly, your suggestion to increase 
  transparency makes the status info goal seems clear to this icon. Do 
  you think we could incorporate this on the original icons or the 
  transparency is on the fly by software?
 
 The application uses the alpha (transparency) values of the original png
 file, so you can incorporate transparency into the original icon file.
 
 BTW, the new icon looks very sexy.  I appreciate your effort and
 artistic sense on making this icon. :-)

BTW, let me know if the icon is ready to be checked into the master
branch for the up-coming 3.4.

Kohei

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kyosh...@novell.com


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Default values

2011-03-08 Thread RGB ES
2011/3/7 Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com:
 Hi Ricardo,

 thanks for this effort - although you know that everybody on a mailing
 list might have a different position concerning these things ;-) On the
 other hand, it's truly great that somebody started to collect ideas for
 that!

 Unfortunately, I miss some time to discuss this at the moment :-\ Only
 one questions - I've read on your page that the Something similar was
 started for Impress under the Renaissance project, but it seems it went
 nowhere. From what I can see, most of the pages are actively
 maintained, e.g.:
 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Better_Defaults_General

 Another thing that might be helpful to know. If we have to decide
 whether items (e.g. toolbar icons) should be available per default, then
 we will (sooner or later) require serious usage data for that. At the
 moment, we miss the updates by the OpenOffice.org User Feedback
 Program [1]. So, if anybody sees the chance to work on that ... that
 would be great.

Sure. In fact, I'd said that there are no simple answers for the
toolbar icons questions ;)
But the autocorrect options I think is a more important issue:
specially Apply numbering - symbol and
Apply border: they generate very irritated reaction from users
(phrases like I would like to know if there is a way to disable the
irritating auto numbering and auto format functions or I want to
completely disable the automatic numbering or bulleting of lists. They
drive me crazy, and I would rather do any such by myself, my own
way... these and other appears quite often on the Community forums)
Cheers,
Ricardo

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Re: More general stuff (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout)

2011-03-08 Thread Michael Meeks
Hi Sebastien,

On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 21:53 +0100, Sébastien Le Ray wrote:
 I think we should close the shadows chapter before starting on notes.
 Do I implement a 4 borders shadow or may I apply the same design to
 Draw and Impress (we have to maintain some consistency between modules,
 I don't think it's a good thing to have a specific shadow for Writer).

I would go for Draw  Impress personally, and/or don't feel you need to
ask any permission :-)

 Do the design team members have a master build to look for good
 defaults (color/blur) for the shadow? If not how can we progress on it?
 Do you want screenshots of various colors?

IMHO, re-applying what we have to all the other office apps would be
rather sweet  hopefully not impossibly hard (?).

 Waiting for your instruction before going on :)

Please don't do that - please just get on  do cool stuff :-)

Speaking of which, I was admiring the blue gradient 'desktop'
background in another office application just now ;-)

ATB,

Michael.

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[libreoffice-design] Re: More general stuff

2011-03-08 Thread Nik

Hi Christoph, all,

Oh boy. I thought I'd wait a few days before responding so that I wasn't 
as offended as I am now,
but it looks like you're expecting something from me and I don't want to 
delay Sebastien's work.
I think I'll save myself the stress and step out of this task. I must 
have confused it for a discussion about a UI-issue on a Design mailing list.



On 3/9/2011 4:42 AM, Christoph Noack wrote:

Personally, I'd like to both look at Sébastiens work, and on Nik's work
once being reade.

[...]

Personally, I would have preferred
you to move on to some other fun / high-impact win, rather than getting
bogged down in random details here ;-)


Please don't expect anything from me. I won't be contributing to this 
task further.
I don't volunteer my free time to be told how unimportant Design random 
details are.

Someone else will pick it up. Good luck.

-Nik

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