RE: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft

2011-03-11 Thread Daniel Merker
Hi everyone,

I will be submitting a motif draft today. Sorry for the wait but it has been 
crazy lately. I'll try to get it done before this afternoon.

-Daniel Merker
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: More general stuff - Please no ribbons/tabs!

2011-03-11 Thread Hillar Liiv
Hey,

If no ribbons and toolbar solution as it is now are not solutions, then what
is?
http://t6uni.deviantart.com/art/OOo-mockup-181260508
or
http://pauloup.deviantart.com/gallery/28216273#/d37dxdr
Whats wrong with these solutions? Table/Graphic bar can appear when clicking
certain object.
It's better when the toolbars allways take same space and don't resize if
you click to different thing  / different toolbar appears. That's why ribbon
is good.

Hillar


2011/3/10 Christopher Stark christopherst...@gmx.de

 Oh no,

 please no such ribbons like in M$EUR Office!!

 In my opinion the best solution is already implemented in LibreOffice
 and should be improved:

* The menu bar with main functionality always stays in the same position
* If I click into a table the table-bar appears
* If I click on a graphic the graphic-bar appears
* If I click into a bullet-point list the bullet-point-bar appears

 This is way more effective than the M$-variant where the user has to
 click on ribbons/tabs all the time and never knows if the required
 function hides behind Review, Insert or Design...

 Regards
 Christopher





 Am 10.03.2011 07:34, schrieb Hillar Liiv:
  Hello,
 
  Where is going LibreOffice? I think it is pointless to argue now about
  shadow or whatever. First thing whta we need to do is to make future
 design
  of LibreOffice, one and only mockup, where developers can look how it
 should
  look alike and then take their decisions. And I think that should be our
  next goal. What point it is to make 2 or 4 sided shadow now if we don't
 know
  where LibreOffice is going.
 
  Some mockup/design examples:
 
 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance/Design_Proposals_for_%E2%80%9CAccessing_Functionality%E2%80%9D#Design_Proposals_Submitted
  http://pauloup.deviantart.com/gallery/28216273
 
 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/libre_office_ribbon_mockup_by_usrnametaken-d375abm.png
  http://t6uni.deviantart.com/art/OOo-mockup-181260508
 
  Other examples:
  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Selection_0212.png
 
 http://www.vistax64.com/attachments/vista-news/13041d1243273201-office-2010-technical-preview-screenshots-win7-7127.jpg
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsMD9QCiMtgfeature=player_embedded
 
  If we don't do this, then it is taking much more time developers to make
  things work.
 
  (And a lot of people have told me that they don't use
 OpenOffice/LibreOffice
  beacuase they don't like how it looks.)
 
  Thanks,
  Hillar
 

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Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo

2011-03-11 Thread Johannes Bausch
Hey,

following your discussion I added another draft - which is rather a step
backward, but I see that the connected ligature is your main concern. So
just have a look here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey#Alternative_Ligatures
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey#Alternative_LigaturesThe last
draft shows the broken ligature as used in the original logo. The rest is
based on my previous work.

Now to your questions.
1. I don't really like the font. I completely agree with you on all you
said, Nik (although I don't think Helvetica would work).
2. Maybe I was too focused on the ligature. It's true what you say,
Bernhard, that we should fix the current logo and then work on a new one
instead of trying to circumvent the flaws of the current one. This way we
don't need to change the logo too often, too.

So what do you think of this last alternative?
Joey

2011/3/7 Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at

 Hi all,

 just short...

 Christoph Noack schrieb:

 Hi Nik, hi Rob, Jaron, Johannes, Bernhard, ... :-)

 Am Montag, den 07.03.2011, 04:34 +1100 schrieb Nik:

 [...]

 I'm not trying to be nasty, but this typeface looks genuinely unfinished.
 I think we would do ourselves a huge favour by locating a better font
 for the next version of the logo.
 What do you think? change or stay? and if change, do you or your
 colleagues know of any good open-source fonts?


 You are right Nik, the font is indeed unfinished (e.g. the Unicode
 coverage)- and development won't continue as far as I know. But in the
 given situation some months ago, the font had some real advantages ...
 for example: having a modern but neutral look.

 [...]


 I've used the font comparison that had been done by the OOo Artwork Team
 [2]. And since Bernhard had substantial impact in creating the
 comparison, I'd like to ask him for his experience whether there is
 something better. Bernhard?


 *If* the font had been finalized, it had been chosen for the OOo logo
 accompanying font too.

 But due to it's shortcomings (especially lack of certain characters and
 symbols) we chose the M+ P1 font
 (
 http://mplus-fonts.sourceforge.jp/mplus-outline-fonts/design/index-en.html#prop)
 for text to be presented in combination with the (proprietary) logo.

 What I personally really like to see in the font are round dots at every
 place: i, !, :, ü and so on.

 We searched hard for a high quality open source font (as with the given OOo
 logo the need was even higher than here), but didn't find a better one.

 It is already more than 6 weeks ago that Hillar Liiv worked on improving
 the Vegur font:
 http://go.mail-archive.com/GIYXUCWv2x5lf5V72hEpf01Upm4=

 I'm quite ashamed, that I didn't reply to him ...


  I know ... It's very late to be talking about such things, but
 discussion in this vein might make for a better future logo.


 I think it's a two-step approach:

 First improve the existing logo by nearly invisible changes leading to an
 improved overall impression.

 Then work on the community branding for a new logo (with new font, if we
 find one).


 I think we slowly start to target topics related to a community branding
 - not only applying tiny improvements concerning the current one. What
 are your thoughts here? Thinking about some major improvements is fine,
 but the timing is important as well ...


 +1


 Personally, I think that some improvements by Johannes should make it
 into the current logo for (maybe?) the minor release of LibreOffice.


 I could even imagine the next available micro release...


  And
 from what I can see, there is consensus that most of the tiny
 improvements (like you said Nik - and also to me: except the
 f-i-connection) greatly improve the general visual impression.


 So perhaps with the bent f-bow, but with space between f-bar and i?

 As far as I remember, the few poll comments tended towards the present logo
 rather than towards the logo with ligature.

 It's not easy to define likes and dislikes for the tiny modifications, if
 the main difference is the stroke between f and i...

 But even if we agree on improving the distances between the single
 characters (kerning) only, the necessarily modified distances between
 f, f and i might cause some kind of ligature...

 Perhaps we should step back again (I don't like this direction very much,
 but if it leads to consensus, it's worthwhile) and improve kerning first.

 When we got our optimum version (broader as today or smaller as Nik
 proposed), we should add ligatures on this pre-final version.

 Does this sound reasonable to you Joey (as foreman in this topic) and all
 the others?

 Best regards

 Bernhard


 Cheers,
 Christoph

 [1]

 http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/fontastic-how-libreoffice-got-its-font.html

 [2]

 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draftoldid=181144#Fonts




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Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft

2011-03-11 Thread Daniel Merker
Hi all,



I have posted my submission to the wiki: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Daniel%27s_Motif_-_Attempt_2.png



Goal: While I do believe that the look should help show individuallity, I think 
it is equally important to show that the suite can work together to form a more 
impressive document. The motif should show how these applications can be 
blended together to generator interesting, novel documents.



Critiques: I wanted to stay with the approved color patellete, but the blended 
colors came out a bit drab. Also, the shaddow on the logo may make it look too 
busy.



Once again, sorry for being the late one :P



-Daniel Merker



-Original Message-
From: Daniel Merker
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 8:33 AM
To: design@libreoffice.org
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft



Hi everyone,



I will be submitting a motif draft today. Sorry for the wait but it has been 
crazy lately. I'll try to get it done before this afternoon.



-Daniel Merker

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Re: [libreoffice-design] General relationship between coders and designers (was: [PUSHED]fdo#31251...)

2011-03-11 Thread Michael Meeks
Hi Bernhard,

On Wed, 2011-03-09 at 22:11 +0100, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
 At first I want to thank Sébastien not only for his work, but also for 
 being open to the discussion here, even if this means to delay the final 
 inclusion of his patch.

Agreed - we all think Sebastien rocks ;-) That we can agree on first,
and this debate is not in fact about him - he acted in an exemplary
manner (so I dropped the CC).

Firstly, I of course want to apologise that my mail made you mad -
clearly I was trying to redress an imbalance I was concerned might
exist, and over-emphasised one side to try to help re-balance things.
Unfortunately, that tipped the balance completely the other way - which
I can understand (in retrospect) sounds upsetting, sorry.

Having said that, I do think there might be some difference of
understanding here, so lets dive into more detail.

Also, apologies for not reading the mail - I spent yesterday heads
down, doing many hours of tedious, mostly mindless merging work - the
kind of stuff that makes programmers feel like donkeys involving no
interesting, creative decisions at all ;-) It is an intricate, painful,
mind-blowingly tedious task - but someone has to do it :-) Anyhow ...

 If Michael (as one of the most relevant developer in our community) is 
 right with attitude against non-coding contributors

I hope I'm not against anything, particularly not designer
developers :-) I am -for- encouraging coders to get their code into the
product, and for designers to get their ideas realised *and*
simultaneously to create a fun place for everyone to work together, with
good relationships. Of course that seems to have gone wrong here, and
needs fixing :-)

  and if this is the official position of the LibreOffice project

So - of course, my view is not an official position. Having said that,
it is perhaps worth discussing.

In the sphere of design, I see the design team as having a whole
spectum of responsibility. At one end - one similar to the coder's and
at the other a critical advisory and leadership role. So - starting at
the coder-like end:

* hard ownership role:
+ I expect the design team to own all of the artwork,
  icon themes, etc. in the product.
+ if I go adding garish / new icons to a theme, I
  expect to get beaten up by you guys - this is yours,
  all yours :-)

* middler-ground role
+ defaults / dialog layout etc.
+ clearly this is fuzzier: dialog layout is (currently)
  dependent on l10n, so some things can't be done: we
  can't wedge 10x buttons into a small space ;-)
+ defaults can have a huge impact on performance,
  maintenance, complexity and code flow
+ changes to dialog layout  behaviour require
  coding support - which -must- be -persuaded- not
  dictated

* weak ownership
+ lets re-architect the whole user interface
+ the weakness here is mostly one of coding resource,
  and impact on architecture
+ it is simply not possible or practicle to dictate
  terms to other teams
+ rejecting inclusion of working improvements
+ this has an incredibly negative impact on the growth
  and fun of the coding community. ie. Sebastian's work
  was merged before getting UI review, this I expect to
  continue.

So - I suspect the arguments here are around the 'middle' and 'weak'
categories, what belongs where and what happens in what order etc.

Personally, I don't have a defined view of how that works. In
everything that I'm involved in I prefer informal, relational process.
This means that power such as a veto power and the like simply don't
exist :-) If designers feel -extremely- strongly that something
shouldn't go in - I'd want to listen very carefully since you contribute
so much; but if the relevant developer feels similarly strongly, then
we'd have a problem and need to dig more (and so it goes on). I don't
think hard and fast rules capture the real world in an incredibly
helpful way in these situations.

 When coders are allowed and encouraged to do their changes regardless
 of the voting of the relevant experts in areas their code contribution 
 touches, we come back to a two-class community

I don't think there is a two-class community, I think there are tons of
people with different domain expertise - and that we should listen
carefully to each of them and come up with a balanced solution that
pleases as many people as possible: l10n, coders, designers, etc. I also
don't believe that all developers by definition have no design sense and
insight :-)

I -do-not- see the design team having an ultimate say in this world,
where their word is law, and their 

[libreoffice-design] Installer changes for Windows users

2011-03-11 Thread Jared Meidal
As this is my first post here I'd like to introduce myself as someone who is 
not a coder, but one who sees a lot of exciting potential in this LibreOffice 
project.  I hope this application suite can globally serve users across many 
platforms, interfaces and requirements.  I use OpenSUSE and Win7, and have used 
OOo the last four years, and used StarOffice 10 years ago.
 
Initially I would like to highly suggest some polishes on the win32 installer 
for the 3.4 project:

When the first step to installing LibreOffice is the prompt to ask where to 
extract the install folder immediate confusion comes to many elementary PC 
users.  I think this is primarily because this step is unusual, most 
Windows-based apps do not contain this step, or hide it from the user.  I 
suggest eliminating this step.  Either the installer file is packaged 
differently to accomplish this, or it automatically extracts the MSI, etc. into 
a temp folder in the background, which is afterwards deleted upon a 
successful installation.

The second issue is that the install folder C:\Program Files\LibreOffice 3 
contains the version number.  This is much better than the Start Menu\Programs 
folder LibreOffice 3.3 which contains the point version also.  I suggest 
removing both.  Simply LibreOffice is enough, and is a much more common 
standard and expectation for Windows users.

Thank you for your consideration of this!
  
--Jared


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft

2011-03-11 Thread Andreas Mantke
Hi Daniel, *,

Am Freitag, 11. März 2011, 15:05:34 schrieb Daniel Merker:
 Hi all,
 
 
 
 I have posted my submission to the wiki:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Daniel%27s_Motif_-_Attempt_2.png


I think it is an interesting proposal but I'm afraid if I look on it a bit 
closer I 
get some eye issue. It seemed to me if I see the text twice and so it is not 
very eye 
friendly for me. I can't look longer onto the graphic.

Just my 2 € cent

Regards,
Andreas
-- 
## Developer LibreOffice
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows
## http://LibreOffice.org
## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de 

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar

2011-03-11 Thread Kohei Yoshida
Hi Paulo,

On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 14:46 -0300, Paulo José wrote:
 OK, Kohei, thank you for info and comment.
 
 Here you find the checked version, including some refinements and a 
 little proposal: an icon to provide feedback to a correctly saving. 
 Maybe this icon can just appear for few seconds, then return to default 
 transparent icon. Just an idea to improve feedback's level.

Yes, this is a good idea, and I like it a lot.  That would greatly
enhance the visibility of this icon.

The only issue is that, implementing it would take a little extra
effort.  So what I'd like to do is to just leave the icon behavior as-is
for 3.4 (but update the icon images with yours), and look into
implementing timed feedback that you are proposing after the 3.4
release.  I hope that's okay.

Like I said, I like the idea of a little animated feedback that you are
suggesting.  So hopefully we can implement that at some point.

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg
  
 (if it doesn't work, force reload)

So, for 3.4, I guess we should take the left and middle ones?

Kohei

-- 
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kyosh...@novell.com


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Installer changes for Windows users

2011-03-11 Thread Cesare Leonardi

Hi all.

I'm just a user too, that follows the LibreOffice project with many 
hopes and that try to contribute with bug filing and comments.


On 11/03/2011 16:17, Jared Meidal wrote:

When the first step to installing LibreOffice is the prompt to ask
where to extract the install folder immediate confusion comes to many
elementary PC users.  I think this is primarily because this step is
unusual, most Windows-based apps do not contain this step, or hide it
from the user.  I suggest eliminating this step.  Either the
installer file is packaged differently to accomplish this, or it
automatically extracts the MSI, etc. into a temp folder in the
background, which is afterwards deleted upon a successful
installation.


I completely agree with you.
I've always found strange using the desktop as temporary folder and also 
found strange that the user has to manually delete later this folder.
I concur that this forlder should go to %temp% and that has to be 
deleted after the setup completes (even with error).


I'm unsure if can be useful to make a permanent copy of this folder 
under the LibreOffice folder in %programfiles%, so that the user can 
modify his setup without having to find the original installer.
Tipical use case is, for example, to add Impress if you haven't 
installed it in the first place, or to modify file associations, or to 
restore the program if something got screwed up.

It wastes disk space but can be useful in many cases.


The second issue is that the install folder C:\Program
Files\LibreOffice 3 contains the version number.  This is much
better than the Start Menu\Programs folder LibreOffice 3.3 which
contains the point version also.  I suggest removing both.  Simply
LibreOffice is enough, and is a much more common standard and
expectation for Windows users.


Like Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird, for example.
It's something i do on every setup: i change the folder name deleting 
the version. It makes upgrades easier (from a user point of view).
For example, when you upgrade from 2.4 to 3.x (as i'm doing now at 
work), many users ends up with a broken quicklaunch program in their 
startup folder: if you use version number in folder, quicklaunch is not 
able to find itself anymore after upgrade and you have to solve the 
problem manually.


Another thing that i've always found strange in OpenOffice/LibreOffice 
Windows configuration is that, under the Start Menu, LibreOffice 
programs are showed with their real name (LibreOffice Writer, 
LibreOffice Calc, etc), while if you right-click on the systray icon you 
can see the localized document type (i translate from italian: Text 
document, Spreadsheet, Presentation).

My workmate believe this is a bug, me just an incoherence.

In my opinion the better solution would be to render identical both 
strings, with something like this:

Writer (Text documents)
Calc (Spreadsheet)
Impress (Presentations)
...

Or reversed:
Text documents (Writer)
Spreadsheet (Calc)
...

All the string should be localized, like the ones in the quicklaunch.
And without the LibreOffice prefix (as LibreOffice Writer), since 
the word LibreOffice it is already in the folder name.
This has the good effect of teaching the corrispondence between the name 
of the application and what it does. Many employees keeps on calling 
Excel the spreadsheet and Word the word processor and ignoring what are 
Calc and Writer...  ;-)


Hope to help.

Cesare.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Installer changes for Windows users

2011-03-11 Thread Shawn Thompson
On the topic of this, I had actually proposed an entire redesign of the
installer system in a much earlier post, but in discussions on IRC I was
informed that making alternate UI's for Windows Installer systems is a
pretty difficult task.

~Shawn

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Cesare Leonardi celeo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all.

 I'm just a user too, that follows the LibreOffice project with many hopes
 and that try to contribute with bug filing and comments.


 On 11/03/2011 16:17, Jared Meidal wrote:

 When the first step to installing LibreOffice is the prompt to ask
 where to extract the install folder immediate confusion comes to many
 elementary PC users.  I think this is primarily because this step is
 unusual, most Windows-based apps do not contain this step, or hide it
 from the user.  I suggest eliminating this step.  Either the
 installer file is packaged differently to accomplish this, or it
 automatically extracts the MSI, etc. into a temp folder in the
 background, which is afterwards deleted upon a successful
 installation.


 I completely agree with you.
 I've always found strange using the desktop as temporary folder and also
 found strange that the user has to manually delete later this folder.
 I concur that this forlder should go to %temp% and that has to be deleted
 after the setup completes (even with error).

 I'm unsure if can be useful to make a permanent copy of this folder under
 the LibreOffice folder in %programfiles%, so that the user can modify his
 setup without having to find the original installer.
 Tipical use case is, for example, to add Impress if you haven't installed
 it in the first place, or to modify file associations, or to restore the
 program if something got screwed up.
 It wastes disk space but can be useful in many cases.


  The second issue is that the install folder C:\Program
 Files\LibreOffice 3 contains the version number.  This is much
 better than the Start Menu\Programs folder LibreOffice 3.3 which
 contains the point version also.  I suggest removing both.  Simply
 LibreOffice is enough, and is a much more common standard and
 expectation for Windows users.


 Like Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird, for example.
 It's something i do on every setup: i change the folder name deleting the
 version. It makes upgrades easier (from a user point of view).
 For example, when you upgrade from 2.4 to 3.x (as i'm doing now at work),
 many users ends up with a broken quicklaunch program in their startup
 folder: if you use version number in folder, quicklaunch is not able to find
 itself anymore after upgrade and you have to solve the problem manually.

 Another thing that i've always found strange in OpenOffice/LibreOffice
 Windows configuration is that, under the Start Menu, LibreOffice programs
 are showed with their real name (LibreOffice Writer, LibreOffice Calc, etc),
 while if you right-click on the systray icon you can see the localized
 document type (i translate from italian: Text document, Spreadsheet,
 Presentation).
 My workmate believe this is a bug, me just an incoherence.

 In my opinion the better solution would be to render identical both
 strings, with something like this:
 Writer (Text documents)
 Calc (Spreadsheet)
 Impress (Presentations)
 ...

 Or reversed:
 Text documents (Writer)
 Spreadsheet (Calc)
 ...

 All the string should be localized, like the ones in the quicklaunch.
 And without the LibreOffice prefix (as LibreOffice Writer), since the
 word LibreOffice it is already in the folder name.
 This has the good effect of teaching the corrispondence between the name of
 the application and what it does. Many employees keeps on calling Excel the
 spreadsheet and Word the word processor and ignoring what are Calc and
 Writer...  ;-)

 Hope to help.

 Cesare.


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar

2011-03-11 Thread Paulo José

Hi Kohei, all

On 11-03-2011 19:11, Kohei Yoshida wrote:

Yes, this is a good idea, and I like it a lot. That would greatly
enhance the visibility of this icon.

The only issue is that, implementing it would take a little extra
effort.  So what I'd like to do is to just leave the icon behavior as-is
for 3.4 (but update the icon images with yours), and look into
implementing timed feedback that you are proposing after the 3.4
release.  I hope that's okay.
For me it's allright. But I think we must wait a bit more for feedback 
from the other design and UX's people. But I'm very glade that you like 
the idea!



So, for 3.4, I guess we should take the left and middle ones?
Yeah, but like I've said, we should wait. I'd like to get some other 
members opinions, like Bernhard, Nik or Ivan. Up to this moment, just 
Christoph and Jaron did take part on it.



Kohei

Thank you for your support, Kohei!
~Paulo

--
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Computer Science Student
Federal University of São João del-Rei
WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
Blogger / casatwain.com

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Installer changes for Windows users

2011-03-11 Thread Jared Meidal
Another Windows related issue would be adding Win7 capabilities.  Currently I 
cannot group LibreOffice apps in the task bar by an app that is reviously 
pinned.  
For example I can pin Writer to the task bar, but when opening it, or a new 
doc, it appears separately on the task bar.
--Jared

In His Service,

Jared Meidal
Outdoor Education Director
THE OAKS Camp and Conference Center
a ministry of World Impact, Inc.
Office: (661) 724-1018 ext.317
 Shawn Thompson superfox...@gmail.com 03/11/11 15:16 PM 
On the topic of this, I had actually proposed an entire redesign of the
installer system in a much earlier post, but in discussions on IRC I was
informed that making alternate UI's for Windows Installer systems is a
pretty difficult task.

~Shawn

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Cesare Leonardi celeo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all.

 I'm just a user too, that follows the LibreOffice project with many hopes
 and that try to contribute with bug filing and comments.


 On 11/03/2011 16:17, Jared Meidal wrote:

 When the first step to installing LibreOffice is the prompt to ask
 where to extract the install folder immediate confusion comes to many
 elementary PC users.  I think this is primarily because this step is
 unusual, most Windows-based apps do not contain this step, or hide it
 from the user.  I suggest eliminating this step.  Either the
 installer file is packaged differently to accomplish this, or it
 automatically extracts the MSI, etc. into a temp folder in the
 background, which is afterwards deleted upon a successful
 installation.


 I completely agree with you.
 I've always found strange using the desktop as temporary folder and also
 found strange that the user has to manually delete later this folder.
 I concur that this forlder should go to %temp% and that has to be deleted
 after the setup completes (even with error).

 I'm unsure if can be useful to make a permanent copy of this folder under
 the LibreOffice folder in %programfiles%, so that the user can modify his
 setup without having to find the original installer.
 Tipical use case is, for example, to add Impress if you haven't installed
 it in the first place, or to modify file associations, or to restore the
 program if something got screwed up.
 It wastes disk space but can be useful in many cases.


  The second issue is that the install folder C:\Program
 Files\LibreOffice 3 contains the version number.  This is much
 better than the Start Menu\Programs folder LibreOffice 3.3 which
 contains the point version also.  I suggest removing both.  Simply
 LibreOffice is enough, and is a much more common standard and
 expectation for Windows users.


 Like Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird, for example.
 It's something i do on every setup: i change the folder name deleting the
 version. It makes upgrades easier (from a user point of view).
 For example, when you upgrade from 2.4 to 3.x (as i'm doing now at work),
 many users ends up with a broken quicklaunch program in their startup
 folder: if you use version number in folder, quicklaunch is not able to find
 itself anymore after upgrade and you have to solve the problem manually.

 Another thing that i've always found strange in OpenOffice/LibreOffice
 Windows configuration is that, under the Start Menu, LibreOffice programs
 are showed with their real name (LibreOffice Writer, LibreOffice Calc, etc),
 while if you right-click on the systray icon you can see the localized
 document type (i translate from italian: Text document, Spreadsheet,
 Presentation).
 My workmate believe this is a bug, me just an incoherence.

 In my opinion the better solution would be to render identical both
 strings, with something like this:
 Writer (Text documents)
 Calc (Spreadsheet)
 Impress (Presentations)
 ...

 Or reversed:
 Text documents (Writer)
 Spreadsheet (Calc)
 ...

 All the string should be localized, like the ones in the quicklaunch.
 And without the LibreOffice prefix (as LibreOffice Writer), since the
 word LibreOffice it is already in the folder name.
 This has the good effect of teaching the corrispondence between the name of
 the application and what it does. Many employees keeps on calling Excel the
 spreadsheet and Word the word processor and ignoring what are Calc and
 Writer...  ;-)

 Hope to help.

 Cesare.


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