Re: [libreoffice-design] Model View separation?
Yes, it needs a little bit more details, and before that discussion (and maybe the survey, I will try to start something this week-end) 2011/11/25 Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org Andrew, Mirek's page is useful as an introduction but it needs a lot more details. It's a good start though. Best, Charles. Le 25 nov. 2011 03:32, Andrew Pullins android2...@gmail.com a écrit : Mirek has made a road map inplace [1]. I have not read this in some time but it lays out some small things that we can start to do to transition into implementing it. looks like it could be updated some but I do not know. [1] http://clickortap.wordpress.com/citrus/roadmap/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Some Feedback on Citrus.
On 11/25/2011 01:19 PM, Greg wrote: I don't want to rain on your parade but (as a UX practitioner of 20 yrs), surveys are almost the least effective means to validate a UI design, especially if UI behaviour is included in the investigation. A dozen face to face interviews supported by static or even active prototypes, conducted with a variety of users would yield much more useful and reliable results. If you want to pat yourself on the back and tell everyone that 9 out of 10 users prefer the new LibreButtonOMatic, then a survey will give you that but whether 9 out of 10 users actually do will be unrelated to that statistic. Surely the UXers in the team know people who use these type of products (in fact a sprinkling of users of competitive products would add value). I'd be happy to work with other UXers to plan the investigation and conduct a couple of structured interviews. Regards, Noh The problem for us is how to get any user input. The problem we have is logistical, how are the interviews conducted. Completely agree :) Alex On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:38:22 +0100 Charles-H. Schulz lt;charles.sch...@documentfoundation.orggt; wrote A survey would be a great idea; in fact, it would help with asking ourselves the right question for the spec; in short, it would be a real work of User Experience. Even better news: I think Christoph Noack and Bjoern Balazs know just how to set up such a survey, but I might be perhaps too optimistic :-) Best, Charles. On 25/11/2011 00:00, Kévin PEIGNOT wrote: gt; Maybe we could publish a survey asking, for each part of Citrus UI gt; (explained in a few word) what people think about it ? As we did with ourgt; first survey ? gt; gt; On each page a part of the survey, with a brief summary and if possible agt; mockup. And why not at the end asking a global impression note. It's notgt; spec, but it permit to know what people think of the globals ideas ?gt; gt; Kévin gt; gt; 2011/11/24 Andrew Pullinslt;android2...@gmail.comgt; gt; gt;gt; Charles, Kevin, every one, gt;gt; gt;gt; gt;gt;gt; Citrus looks good. But as we explained, if there's no one wrtinggt;gt;gt; specicications for eaxh part of citrus nothing will get done.gt;gt;gt; gt;gt; gt;gt; ok yes we do need to start on some specifications so that we can getgt;gt; started, but we have not talked about it all that much. first we needgt;gt; to decide on what we all agree on and change what we do not. if we get moregt;gt; people to agree with some things I would start some specifications, but Igt;gt; still don't know exactly what is needed to write one. could someone write agt;gt; templet on what needs to be written. that would really help. till thengt;gt; there are still some people that have not said what they do not like aboutgt;gt; Citrus. if you wait any longer we'er going to have to just go with Citrus. gt;gt; gt;gt; It looks like we need to blog so that people don't get their hopes up. :-/gt;gt; gt;gt; gt;gt; all the more reason to get this started NOW. and before you guys say it ONEgt;gt; MORE TIME. I know that we can not get this done in one shot, and that wegt;gt; need to do this ONE STEP AT A TIME. but now that we have some press on thisgt;gt; and people know that we are working on this we NEED to get things rolling.gt;gt; gt;gt; Andrew gt;gt; gt;gt; -- gt;gt; Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.orggt;gt; Problems? gt;gt; http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ gt;gt; Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquettegt;gt; List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/gt;gt; All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot begt;gt; deleted gt;gt; gt;gt; gt; -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Some Feedback on Citrus.
Hi Kevin, Grek, hi all!
I've planned to stay away from the computer today, but I think that
thread is reason enough to answer nevertheless ;-)
Am Freitag, den 25.11.2011, 19:29 +0100 schrieb Kévin PEIGNOT:
I agree, but One think is sure : We must try to do an ergonomic AND sexy
interface. And a survey could help us find what people like.
Yes, a simple mockup survey does tell us what people might like
(theoretically), but it doesn't tell us whether a complex design is
ergonomic, usable, or does fit to user's real needs ... I assume that's
what Greg wanted to say.
By the way, thanks Greg for your kind offer ... it would be great to
hear what you think how we could (pre-)validate Citrus (or any other
proposal).
From my point-of-view - with regard to Citrus and surveys:
* Either you are an experienced interviewer (listening to what
people usually not say), or ...
* We use a survey to get a very general indication whether it
makes sense to continue working on Citrus (that would help a
bit, but since most people don't like the current UI we don't
need to ask that *g*), or ...
* We focus on carefully selected areas of Citrus. In such cases,
one could e.g. describe show pictures and describe workflows
people need to rate. Then you get feedback on design
decisions (not: visual design).
There are lots of examples where surveys asked for product feedback
(with a good intention), whilst making the updated product worse.
Whether it is a special magazine (the publisher asked what topics are
missing, people added lots of ideas, it became a general purpose
magazine without focus and much less user interest) or cars (the
manufacturer asked what configuration options users wanted to have,
people wanted all kinds of stuff, and disliked the product finally
because it was hard to use).
One last thing: If you ask people, then you have to make sure that you
use the right ones. Otherwise you get feedback that seems to be valid,
but is not, unfortunately.
So back to the initial question - do we need a user survey (now), or
should we continue whether we (as the Design Team) think that its
valuable.
If the latter, then I think it would be helpful to have all contributors
speak up (and provide a yes/no with some explanation).
Cheers,
Christoph
Kévin
2011/11/25 Greg noh.spam.j...@gmail.com
I don't want to rain on your parade but (as a UX practitioner of 20 yrs),
surveys are almost the least effective means to validate a UI design,
especially if UI behaviour is included in the investigation. A dozen face
to
face interviews supported by static or even active prototypes, conducted
with
a variety of users would yield much more useful and reliable results.
If you want to pat yourself on the back and tell everyone that 9 out of 10
users prefer the new LibreButtonOMatic, then a survey will give you that
but
whether 9 out of 10 users actually do will be unrelated to that statistic.
Surely the UXers in the team know people who use these type of products (in
fact a sprinkling of users of competitive products would add value). I'd be
happy to work with other UXers to plan the investigation and conduct a
couple
of structured interviews.
Regards,
Noh
Completely agree :)
Alex
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:38:22 +0100 Charles-H. Schulz
lt;charles.sch...@documentfoundation.orggt; wrote
A survey would be a great idea; in fact, it would help with asking
ourselves the right question for the spec; in short, it would be a real
work of User Experience.
Even better news: I think Christoph Noack and Bjoern Balazs know just
how to set up such a survey, but I might be perhaps too optimistic :-)
Best,
Charles.
On 25/11/2011 00:00, Kévin PEIGNOT wrote:
gt; Maybe we could publish a survey asking, for each part of Citrus UI
gt; (explained in a few word) what people think about it ? As we did
with
our gt; first survey ?
gt;
gt; On each page a part of the survey, with a brief summary and if
possible a gt; mockup. And why not at the end asking a global
impression note. It's not gt; spec, but it permit to know what people
think of the globals ideas ? gt;
gt; Kévin
gt;
gt; 2011/11/24 Andrew Pullins lt;android2...@gmail.comgt;
gt;
gt;gt; Charles, Kevin, every one,
gt;gt;
gt;gt;
gt;gt;gt; Citrus looks good. But as we explained, if there's no one
wrting gt;gt;gt; specicications for eaxh part of citrus nothing will
get done. gt;gt;gt;
gt;gt;
gt;gt; ok yes we do need to start on some specifications so that we can
get gt;gt; started, but we have not talked about it all that much.
first
we need gt;gt; to decide on what we all agree on and change what we do
not. if we get more gt;gt; people to agree with some things I would
start some specifications, but I gt;gt; still don't know exactly what
[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Interface Better than Citrus
Hello everybody. Citrus is OK, maybe little ugly, but what about this muckup: http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/01/impressive-libreoffice-ui-mockups-you.html Looks more modern and sleek. Just consider it. Blender looks real good, and LibreOffice could looks real good too. LibreOffice UI Mock-up: http://pauloup.deviantart.com/gallery/ Thanks. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Interface Better than Citrus
downward ok so I saw this mock up all over the OMG Ubuntu Citrus post...and I must say that design is the worse thing I have ever seen. the top row definitely looks modern and sleek, but the side bar is just horrible. its like he is trying to reinvent the weal but made a block instead. I do like how the top row is embossed though. I don't know what you are talking about Citrus being ugly. Citrus is amaizing, and besides the theme can change later. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
