[libreoffice-design] New Citrus Mock ups(base)
HI, I have just uploaded my version of Mirek's Citrus mock up here[1]. Mirek has only done mock ups for Writer, Draw, Impress, and now has made my Calc mock up much better. so when I saw that he had only done the first three I decided to start on the others. in my last installment I made math. math is such a small program that there is really no point in making a mock up, but I wanted to see it. but this time I have made Base. I was not familiar with the program before today, for I do not need a database(yet). so after looking at what we have and what M$A has to offer and watching youtube videos on M$A, I started. if you use base I would like to know what you think of it. I decided not to make any of the tools for the insertion bar, for there is so much you can do in base. I am tired right now so I will add them later. [1] https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=vpid=explorerchrome=truesrcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNN2RiNzU1MTItZTAyNy00NmZlLTk1MGQtY2VlZmQ1OTYyOTM3hl=en_US -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New Citrus Mock ups(base)
Am 27.11.2011 12:53, schrieb Andrew Pullins: HI, I have just uploaded my version of Mirek's Citrus mock up here[1]. Sorry again: This link leads to the gated Google-Community! Please don't post links to gated communities, but links that are accessable to everyone! Christopher Mirek has only done mock ups for Writer, Draw, Impress, and now has made my Calc mock up much better. so when I saw that he had only done the first three I decided to start on the others. in my last installment I made math. math is such a small program that there is really no point in making a mock up, but I wanted to see it. but this time I have made Base. I was not familiar with the program before today, for I do not need a database(yet). so after looking at what we have and what M$A has to offer and watching youtube videos on M$A, I started. if you use base I would like to know what you think of it. I decided not to make any of the tools for the insertion bar, for there is so much you can do in base. I am tired right now so I will add them later. [1] https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=vpid=explorerchrome=truesrcid=0B7y5FMHPsyaNN2RiNzU1MTItZTAyNy00NmZlLTk1MGQtY2VlZmQ1OTYyOTM3hl=en_US -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [Fwd: [Bug 38889] Make macro editing easier]
On Thu, 2011-11-17 at 16:44 +0100, Michel RENON wrote: Hi, Le 13/11/11 19:32, Christoph Noack a écrit : Hi August, hi Michel! Thank you both for offering your support. Do you think it might make sense to subscribe to bug 38889 (maybe adding a comment)? So other people will know that somebody will have a deeper look at the issue. Michel, if you want to discuss a solution proposal ... happy to help! Bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38889 I finally uploaded my proposal ! https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/Macros_Dialogs It's a very first idea, lots of details may be enhanced. Hi Michel I wanted to add something here - it isn't directly about your ideas on the dialog update, though I think that is a good idea. Rather on the subject of the email subject :) Making macro editing easier. While, as I said, I agree that the dialog/macro/library management dialog could be improved and should be, I believe that it is not the primary UX issue with macros. The largest issue I see is how macros ares assigned to different events. Currently one has to know what you want to do, before you know what you want to do - what do I mean: One example: Open a document select ToolsCustomizeEvents. Click on the macro button Browse for an appropriate macro Don't find one Close the macro selection dialog Close the Customize dialog Open the Macro Dialog Select a library / or create a new one Now edit it in the IDE Ok finish up your macro Close the IDE Go back to ToolsCustomizeEvents Find the event you wanted - again Click on the Macro button - again Browse for the correct library/macro - again Select it. My suggestion as the place to get the most bang for the effort would be to address this workflow, such that anyplace in the application where one can assign a macro the UI allows the user to - jump directly to the IDE (when needing to create a new macro) - generate a small stub for the macro body (with a name based on the event being assigned) - upon saving the work in the IDE -- return to the spot they entered from with the newly created macro assigned. Anyway - I do like your ideas on the dialog and I'm not saying that it isn't worth pursuing, just that I think addressing this other workflow, either as part of this effort or as a stand alone effort would render the greater improvement to the user's experience. Finally - thanks for your efforts here - I hope others in the UX/Dev groups pick up on it and help you out with it. Best wishes, //drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] annnnnd we are back to square one.
Le 27/11/11 18:22, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Andrew, To keep this simple and without shame of repeating myself: The developers cannot implement a complete redesign all at once. Therefore you need to push changes one by one. Little by little. In order to do this you need to write specification for each of the UI feature. What has been written so far here and on Mirek's blog needs to be much, much more detailed. That way we'll get something developers can use and understand. To complement Charles answer, may I suggest to re-use the wiki pages created by Christoph Noack to make proposals ? You can see them in the whiteboard section : https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard And an important point : please create mockups in wireframe. Otherwise, the theme/aesthetic changes may disturb the UX analysis. [1] Thanks, Michel [1] http://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot.com/2010/05/picture-is-worth-thousand-words.html for example, all ux proposals by Canonical are built with balsamiq : http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/383 http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/333 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] annnnnd we are back to square one.
Hi all, It seems we get more traffic on this list if (I have to) stay away for a while. To be serious - I only briefly looked at this thread and noticed two things. First, there are some highly interesting thoughts by both UX guys and developers ... thats something I am very happy with. I'd like to have us working together to finally derive where we want to go to, and starting to do the first confident steps. Second, I am not so happy that people repeat over and over again that nothing happens ... whilst there are numerous (other) requests for support being unanswered for a long time. Especially, since parts of (e.g.) the Citrus roadmap are at least started (sometimes stalled, but adressed). We again have some friends visiting us, so I will be available again in a few days - maybe I can add some thoughts then. In the meantime, thanks (e.g.) Astron and Charles for the calm voices and the FLOSS explanations. Cheers, Christoph -- Sent via mobile... Stefan Knorr (Astron) heinzless...@googlemail.com schrieb: Hi Andrew, please remember to be polite. And if you want to work on a roadmap/a spec, then start one! There is absolutely no point in endlessly discussing this on the list and frustrating everyone in the process. For a reasonably complete spec, see e. g. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/Calc_Range_Names . Astron. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] annnnnd we are back to square one.
Le 27/11/11 20:22, Andrew Pullins a écrit : And an important point : please create mockups in wireframe. Otherwise, the theme/aesthetic changes may disturb the UX analysis. [1] [1] http://uxopenofficeorg.**blogspot.com/2010/05/picture-** is-worth-thousand-words.htmlhttp://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot.com/2010/05/picture-is-worth-thousand-words.html why wireframe, I know that a lot of UI are made in that but why? Well... the above blog says it clearly : When looking at ideas, it doesn't work better if it just looks better. Moreover, strange guys like the UX people do even try to avoid keeping too much attention on visual design (in the first run). Mostly we use something called wireframes to present our ideas. Why? Because otherwise you might easily run into something called taste war :-) To be as complete as possible, I would list my reasons : - User eXperience and Visual Design are very different subjects User eXperience : - where are elements ? - what is their own behaviour ? (mostly imposed by OSes) - Are visual metaphor coherent with what's expected by user ? - what are the most executed actions ? - Which informations are necessary to perform those actions ? - How many click/keyboard events are necessary to perform those actions ? - For each action, is it possible to reduce the number of user's events ? (ex: reduce the nb of mouse click) - How can we change simple actions to very easy actions ? - How can we change complex actions to simple actions ? - Do all actions follow the same principles ? Visual design : - what is the rendering of every element in every state possible (active/inactive/pressed/hover) ? - (there must be other parts, but I should ask a visual designer !) A one-line version would be : User eXperience -- study the dynamics (evolution in time in response to events) Visual Design -- study a photograph of several elements (how make it look good / clear at the first microsecond) - if UX designer work with rendered elements, they'll inconsciously be infuenced by the rendering and focus on it instead of behaviour. For example, in citrus proposal, what do people *really* like ? the smart levels of gray and some subtle gradients or the behaviour ? (and in a very personnal note : my eyes are hurted by dark background so I really can not look at more than 3 seconds a mockup with a dark theme and I'll miss good ideas !) - a UX design in wireframe is naturally cross-platform ;-) - working with wireframes (only rectangles, lines and few text) in Draw or Inkscape is *much much* faster and upgradable than drawing with Gimp Did I convinced you ? ;-) Michel -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] annnnnd we are back to square one.
Le 27/11/11 04:18, Andrew Pullins a écrit : Hello [...] can we get someone from the deve team to help us work on this road map. I know that some of them hang around here. I do not want to mess with what has already been planed but we should start to plan to change the UI. till then we the design team need to continue critiquing the Citrus UI, and getting it ready to implement. This paragraph made me think of something I had in mind for weeks : During last weeks, I read a lot of message similar to this one. The inconscious idea is that Citrus UI *is* the future UI of LibreOffice. I find this not positive because it may prevent other ideas from appearing ; and we need ideas ! Please note that there is absolutely no offense against Citrus UI from me. I would just like to keep the UX team in a brainstorming mode ! I would propose to use a neutral form : future UI. So let's make a lot of one-step proposals to reach one day the future UI ! Thanks Michel -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
