[libreoffice-design] Re: Loading styles from document

2012-06-11 Thread Cedric Bosdonnat
Hi Alexander,

On Sat, 2012-06-09 at 17:02 +0200, Alexander Wilms wrote:
 since this week's feature freeze I wanted to ask you whether you had 
 enough time to implement loading styles from a document.

As I stated during the ESC, loading the styles only would have cost me
too much time before feature freeze (and wouldn't have been possible).
But we have a handy feature to set a document as the default template:
it's the quick solution we have ATM.

 If that's the case, I would want to ask everyone if they would be OK 
 with the styles used in this document: 
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Avantgarde.ott
 and whether Cedric could possibly include it.

It's only a few lines of XML away to include it and certainly not too
late.

--
Cedric


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Design ethos

2012-06-11 Thread Mirek M.
Hi Christoph,

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 Hi Mirek, all!

 Thanks for your quick response! It's already a bit late, but I'd like to
 answer now - tomorrow, I suppose, my day job will eat up all the given
 time ;-)

 Before I start: The more often I read your mail, the more I'm convinced
 that some of the potential misunderstandings are caused by differences
 in terminology (read: same terms mean different things to us) and
 procedure with regard to HMI development. So please allow me to add some
 more my-point-of-view ...

 Am Sonntag, den 10.06.2012, 19:53 +0200 schrieb Mirek M.:
  Hi Christoph,
 
  On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com
 wrote:
 
   Hi Björn, hi Mirek!
  
   I had to make up my mind concerning this thread and also the article
   that was originally referred to. So here is what I'm thinking about ...
  
   Am Mittwoch, den 06.06.2012, 20:45 +0200 schrieb Björn Balazs:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2012, 19:46:09 schrieb Mirek M.:
   [...]
Developers encountering these keywords likely won't have any
 additional
interface design training, so it is important that each heuristic is
 very
clearly defined with specific examples and detailed explanations.
Additionally, allowing developers to view all of the bugs in the
 software
marked as the same type of issue, both current and resolved, serves
 as an
effective way for them to further learn about the heuristic.
   
Therefor I understand these principles as guidelines for developers
 to
   become
aware of UX, perhaps learn a tiny bit. Opposite I do understand
   something like
the design ethos as rules for us - experienced designers and UX
   professionals.
So, I think the sugested rules are good for teaching developers, but
 I
   think
this is not what we want to do - ?questionmark?
  
   I understand it the same way - and I found another thing a bit strange.
   The article is called Quantifying Usability although it deals with
   heuristic evaluations. The aim of those evaluations is usually to
   detect interaction design issues - but not to let users rate / quantify
   those issues (having statistically relevant information). So, where is
   the quantification?
  
   In the given case, interaction experts (not users) do tag the issues
   using their level of experience and (domain) knowledge. So finally, you
   can generate a nice statistic of known issues within your system -
 maybe
   that also helps within the project to address the most important (here:
   highest number) of issues in advance.
  
   But that doesn't solve the issue what it really means if a dialog
   violates e.g. ux-minimalism - you need to know the users
   characteristics and their tasks. So for a complex product like
   LibreOffice (assuming that its okay that it supports a variety of
   tasks), some users may find a dialog overwhelming whilst other users
 may
   miss lots of information. The question is - which main target group
 will
   make use of this dialog ...
  
 
  The minimalism principle states that interfaces should be as simple as
  possible, where simple is meant as not complicated, not as as
  featureless as possible.

 That sounds great, indeed. But when designing products one is usually
 faced to the problem that it's impossible to add (meaningful) features
 without any increase of the complexity of the product. Although one user
 group want to have these features (because it boosts their efficiency),
 other users might find the resulting user interface not simple.

 So, as Bjoern already pointed out, balancing what's simple and what is
 not featureless requires a deep understanding of our users' needs. And
 these needs vary a lot ... depending on their knowledge and their tasks.

 I've documented a related issue some years ago (Myths about UX):

 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/Myths_about_UX#Advanced_functionality_doesn.27t_hurt_-_newcomers_just_won.27t_use_it.21

  As an example, compare Firefox's separate search box and address bar and
  Chrome's omnibox. In Firefox, you can search using both the address bar
 and
  the omnibox, which is unnecessary redundancy. In this case, Chrome is
 more
  minimalistic, yet it doesn't skimp on any features found within Firefox.

 It does sound like Chrome is superior to Firefox, right?

 But how do we know that the Chrome decision is the right one? Maybe ...
  * Maybe the majority of people expects to have a separate search
field - like in other programs, too (Adobe Acrobat).


User expectations should be covered by ux-affordance
and ux-discovery (relevant visual cues), ux-visual-hierarchy (visual
weight), ux-natural-mapping, and, if it doesn't hurt the usability of the
software, ux-consistency.

 * Or user tests showed that people are unable to discover the
search functionality - so they always enter www.google.com and
then start 

Re: [libreoffice-design] Design ethos

2012-06-11 Thread Stefan Knorr (Astron)
Hi all,

just a quick note: the log for yesterday's meeting is now up
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings/2012-06-10
 we quickly touched upon the issues discussed here (see the parts
from 18:59–19:05 and 19:58–pretty much the end).

Also, I'm happy to announce that we might have hit another record
length for our chats...

Astron.

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