Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft

[Aaron Wolf]

On 01/13/2017 01:53 AM, mray wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11.01.2017 21:22, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>> On 01/11/2017 11:57 AM, mray wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11.01.2017 17:21, Aaron Wolf wrote:

 I already started a new thread to discuss the story-boarding. Do we
 really need the audio files before starting that storyboarding process?

>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>
>> Please forgive my ignorance here. Can you explain why you need audio
>> files instead of just the written text in order to do storyboarding? It
>> just makes no sense to me at all. I don't imagine that storyboards
>> already need millisecond-to-millisecond timing notes or anything. Don't
>> we just start by drafting some images and ideas for what goes with the
>> script?
>>
>> I can understand that having audio is nice, but a hard requirement
>> before we start working on and discussing storyboarding. I really don't
>> get it.
>>
> 
> Imagine making a music-video with only having music sheets beforehand.
> You *could* do it - but waiting for the recording is better.
> I don't want to put pressure on you, but I guess recording a few takes
> should be possible soon. Unless we have to wait very long I think
> waiting is worth it.
> 
> Concerning the next steps I don't plan to have a workflow that is
> remotely similar to the one of the script. I expect to work on this
> inside the design circle and seek acceptance/feedback when there are
> results to talk about.
> 


If I know the gist of some music, I could totally story-board, like make
plans for a music video just looking at lyrics. It would be no good to
actually make even the first draft of the actual video, but talking
about what types of scenes we'd have wouldn't require the recording of
the music. Generally sketching out a list of scenes in an order would
not be blocked.

But, yes, I'll get audio really soon.

And sure, it makes sense to work internally on things. But I have some
communication directives that I want included. The images that go with
the line about restrictions must include reference to *both* locks and
ads. The last line about clearing the path should hint at (i.e.
foreshadow) the snowdrift metaphor. And I want to emphasize the need for
reinforcing the general sense of cooperation and community.

In order to avoid domain conflicts, the best strategy is to run the
general ideas for what is being communicated by me, and then as long as
we're clear about the general messaging, it's your domain to determine
how to make the video express it best.







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Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft

[Aaron Wolf]

On 01/13/2017 01:48 PM, J.wuensch wrote:
> Guys, no need to start fighting here. The introduction video is a very
> important part of the snowdrift launch. We all know that, and I think we
> all agree, that Aron as a co-founder of the snowdrift project should
> have some influence on it.
> @ Aron. No need to worry. We will take your suggestions into account.
> The storyboarding notes that you have written to each section are a very
> good starting point. I think what mray is pointing out here is that we
> as artist just want to have a bit of creative freedom in the process of
> creating the video instead of getting constantly interrupted by endless
> discussions on the mailing list. Then, when we have something to show,
> we can discuss and review it together. We are used to critical reviews,
> so it's not the end of the world for us, if we have to change something.
> As far as I'm concerned I hadn't had the time till now to think about
> the visuals complementing the text. But this weekend and the next week I
> should find some time. If I have a complex idea that's a lot of work, I
> would of course first ask you, if it's suitable, so that we don't waste
> too much time on things that are not supposed to be in the video. But
> for small things I would prefer to just do them quickly and you can
> review and judge them later.
> And of course I'd be more happy to work with the audio instead the plain
> text... ;)
> 
> Cheers, Johannes
> 

Thanks for the thoughts Johannes! For reference, we just discussed this
on #snowdrift on freenode IRC a bit and came to the understanding that
this relates to the fact that I still haven't done my task of writing
out a clear communications policy, which I'll get to soon.

Please don't consider my suggestions just because they came from me.
Consider them only as far as they are useful as long as otherwise
following the general communications policy which I'll publish soon.

It's really important for this sort of community project that I am NOT a
benevolent dictator or otherwise deferred to just because I'm
co-founder. We're still getting comfortable with the Holacracy stuff
we're using to separate out accountabilities and roles.

Anyway, I'm going to prioritize the audio before I then get to the
communications policy.

After actually working on the video, if you *want* my input, you can
always ask. But Robert is the designer in charge of that process and
will work with you and others in the manner he prefers once he has what
he needs from me.

Cheers,
Aaron


> 
> Sent from ProtonMail , encrypted email based in
> Switzerland.
> 
> 
>>  Original Message 
>> Subject: Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft
>> Local Time: January 13, 2017 9:17 PM
>> UTC Time: January 13, 2017 8:17 PM
>> From: m...@mray.de
>> To: design@lists.snowdrift.coop
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13.01.2017 18:31, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>> > On 01/13/2017 01:53 AM, mray wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 11.01.2017 21:22, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>> >>> On 01/11/2017 11:57 AM, mray wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  On 11.01.2017 17:21, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>> >
>> > I already started a new thread to discuss the story-boarding. Do we
>> > really need the audio files before starting that storyboarding
>> process?
>> >
>> 
>>  Yes.
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> Please forgive my ignorance here. Can you explain why you need audio
>> >>> files instead of just the written text in order to do
>> storyboarding? It
>> >>> just makes no sense to me at all. I don't imagine that storyboards
>> >>> already need millisecond-to-millisecond timing notes or anything.
>> Don't
>> >>> we just start by drafting some images and ideas for what goes with the
>> >>> script?
>> >>>
>> >>> I can understand that having audio is nice, but a hard requirement
>> >>> before we start working on and discussing storyboarding. I really
>> don't
>> >>> get it.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Imagine making a music-video with only having music sheets beforehand.
>> >> You *could* do it - but waiting for the recording is better.
>> >> I don't want to put pressure on you, but I guess recording a few takes
>> >> should be possible soon. Unless we have to wait very long I think
>> >> waiting is worth it.
>> >>
>> >> Concerning the next steps I don't plan to have a workflow that is
>> >> remotely similar to the one of the script. I expect to work on this
>> >> inside the design circle and seek acceptance/feedback when there are
>> >> results to talk about.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > If I know the gist of some music, I could totally story-board, like make
>> > plans for a music video just looking at lyrics. It would be no good to
>> > actually make even the first draft of the actual video, but talking
>> > about what types of scenes we'd have wouldn't require the recording of
>> > the music. Generally sketching out a list of scenes in an order would
>> > not be blocked.
>> >
>>
>> So we agree. You probably just did not consider that what you 

Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft

[J.wuensch]

Guys, no need to start fighting here. The introduction video is a very 
important part of the snowdrift launch. We all know that, and I think we all 
agree, that Aron as a co-founder of the snowdrift project should have some 
influence on it.
@ Aron. No need to worry. We will take your suggestions into account. The 
storyboarding notes that you have written to each section are a very good 
starting point. I think what mray is pointing out here is that we as artist 
just want to have a bit of creative freedom in the process of creating the 
video instead of getting constantly interrupted by endless discussions on the 
mailing list. Then, when we have something to show, we can discuss and review 
it together. We are used to critical reviews, so it's not the end of the world 
for us, if we have to change something. As far as I'm concerned I hadn't had 
the time till now to think about the visuals complementing the text. But this 
weekend and the next week I should find some time. If I have a complex idea 
that's a lot of work, I would of course first ask you, if it's suitable, so 
that we don't waste too much time on things that are not supposed to be in the 
video. But for small things I would prefer to just do them quickly and you can 
review and judge them later.
And of course I'd be more happy to work with the audio instead the plain 
text... ;)

Cheers, Johannes



Sent from [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.ch), encrypted email based in 
Switzerland.



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft
Local Time: January 13, 2017 9:17 PM
UTC Time: January 13, 2017 8:17 PM
From: m...@mray.de
To: design@lists.snowdrift.coop



On 13.01.2017 18:31, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> On 01/13/2017 01:53 AM, mray wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 11.01.2017 21:22, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2017 11:57 AM, mray wrote:


 On 11.01.2017 17:21, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>
> I already started a new thread to discuss the story-boarding. Do we
> really need the audio files before starting that storyboarding process?
>

 Yes.

>>>
>>> Please forgive my ignorance here. Can you explain why you need audio
>>> files instead of just the written text in order to do storyboarding? It
>>> just makes no sense to me at all. I don't imagine that storyboards
>>> already need millisecond-to-millisecond timing notes or anything. Don't
>>> we just start by drafting some images and ideas for what goes with the
>>> script?
>>>
>>> I can understand that having audio is nice, but a hard requirement
>>> before we start working on and discussing storyboarding. I really don't
>>> get it.
>>>
>>
>> Imagine making a music-video with only having music sheets beforehand.
>> You *could* do it - but waiting for the recording is better.
>> I don't want to put pressure on you, but I guess recording a few takes
>> should be possible soon. Unless we have to wait very long I think
>> waiting is worth it.
>>
>> Concerning the next steps I don't plan to have a workflow that is
>> remotely similar to the one of the script. I expect to work on this
>> inside the design circle and seek acceptance/feedback when there are
>> results to talk about.
>>
>
>
> If I know the gist of some music, I could totally story-board, like make
> plans for a music video just looking at lyrics. It would be no good to
> actually make even the first draft of the actual video, but talking
> about what types of scenes we'd have wouldn't require the recording of
> the music. Generally sketching out a list of scenes in an order would
> not be blocked.
>

So we agree. You probably just did not consider that what you proposed
can be recognized as a kind of a "first draft" of an actual video.

I plan to make the directions the video can evolve into dependent on
skills, preferences and time of people working on it. Ideally based on
face to face conversations. Reading about more concrete ideas in an
email from somebody outside the "design role"(?) seems to be a domain
conflict.

> But, yes, I'll get audio really soon.
>
> And sure, it makes sense to work internally on things. But I have some
> communication directives that I want included. The images that go with
> the line about restrictions must include reference to *both* locks and
> ads. The last line about clearing the path should hint at (i.e.
> foreshadow) the snowdrift metaphor. And I want to emphasize the need for
> reinforcing the general sense of cooperation and community.
>
> In order to avoid domain conflicts, the best strategy is to run the
> general ideas for what is being communicated by me, and then as long as
> we're clear about the general messaging, it's your domain to determine
> how to make the video express it best.
>

I appreciate you giving ideas but reject general directives about
concrete imagery. It is up to the video team to create images that
accompany the text you have the – literal – final word in.

Before we start you are free to give ideas.
After there is 

Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft

[Aaron Wolf]

One extra thought about this process:

Although I'll aim to make audio that could stay as final, if the work on
the visuals somehow calls for minor tweaks in the script, it's not
absolutely set in stone. It's final now, and I hope to not change it,
but it's not literally impossible, of course.



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Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft

[mray]

On 13.01.2017 18:31, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> On 01/13/2017 01:53 AM, mray wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 11.01.2017 21:22, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2017 11:57 AM, mray wrote:


 On 11.01.2017 17:21, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>
> I already started a new thread to discuss the story-boarding. Do we
> really need the audio files before starting that storyboarding process?
>

 Yes.

>>>
>>> Please forgive my ignorance here. Can you explain why you need audio
>>> files instead of just the written text in order to do storyboarding? It
>>> just makes no sense to me at all. I don't imagine that storyboards
>>> already need millisecond-to-millisecond timing notes or anything. Don't
>>> we just start by drafting some images and ideas for what goes with the
>>> script?
>>>
>>> I can understand that having audio is nice, but a hard requirement
>>> before we start working on and discussing storyboarding. I really don't
>>> get it.
>>>
>>
>> Imagine making a music-video with only having music sheets beforehand.
>> You *could* do it - but waiting for the recording is better.
>> I don't want to put pressure on you, but I guess recording a few takes
>> should be possible soon. Unless we have to wait very long I think
>> waiting is worth it.
>>
>> Concerning the next steps I don't plan to have a workflow that is
>> remotely similar to the one of the script. I expect to work on this
>> inside the design circle and seek acceptance/feedback when there are
>> results to talk about.
>>
> 
> 
> If I know the gist of some music, I could totally story-board, like make
> plans for a music video just looking at lyrics. It would be no good to
> actually make even the first draft of the actual video, but talking
> about what types of scenes we'd have wouldn't require the recording of
> the music. Generally sketching out a list of scenes in an order would
> not be blocked.
> 

So we agree. You probably just did not consider that what you proposed
can be recognized as a kind of a "first draft" of an actual video.

I plan to make the directions the video can evolve into dependent on
skills, preferences and time of people working on it. Ideally based on
face to face conversations. Reading about more concrete ideas in an
email from somebody outside the "design role"(?) seems to be a domain
conflict.

> But, yes, I'll get audio really soon.
> 
> And sure, it makes sense to work internally on things. But I have some
> communication directives that I want included. The images that go with
> the line about restrictions must include reference to *both* locks and
> ads. The last line about clearing the path should hint at (i.e.
> foreshadow) the snowdrift metaphor. And I want to emphasize the need for
> reinforcing the general sense of cooperation and community.
> 
> In order to avoid domain conflicts, the best strategy is to run the
> general ideas for what is being communicated by me, and then as long as
> we're clear about the general messaging, it's your domain to determine
> how to make the video express it best.
> 

I appreciate you giving ideas but reject general directives about
concrete imagery. It is up to the video team to create images that
accompany the text you have the – literal – final word in.

Before we start you are free to give ideas.
After there is something to talk about (not the final video) you can
voice your judgement.
In the meantime I expect you to let "video people" do their thing
independently of what you would like to see included.



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Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft

[Stephen Michel]

Snipping wildly to respond to one specific thing.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:53 AM, mray  wrote:

I expect to work on this inside the design circle and seek
acceptance/feedback when there are results to talk about.


For the record, there is no design *circle*, since circles are 
organized around a shared purpose, not a shared skill set. There's a 
website circle and an outreach circle. Each contains  a couple design 
roles.
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Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft

[Michael Siepmann]

On 01/13/2017 03:02 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> One extra thought about this process:
>
> Although I'll aim to make audio that could stay as final, if the work on
> the visuals somehow calls for minor tweaks in the script, it's not
> absolutely set in stone. It's final now, and I hope to not change it,
> but it's not literally impossible, of course.

On a related note, the easier it is in future to make adjustments to the
script and video in light of feedback from a larger audience, the
better. But of course also, the better it is at the outset, the better.
All I'm saying is that if there are options for how to make the video
where one option is slightly better right now, but will make it MUCH
more work to make changes in future, then it may be worth opting for a
slightly less optimal option that leaves us more able to make
incremental improvements in future.




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Re: [Snowdrift-design] intro video storyboarding

[mray]

On 10.01.2017 05:48, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> ...
> 
> These are all just thoughts and suggestions for the most part, looking
> forward to seeing others' ideas.
> 

Thoughts and suggestions are welcome. If some parts are more than that
we might have a conflict of circles. I sympathise with your curiosity
but don't expect this list to be the main channel of exchange of ideas
in this process.

Please try to record the audio soon.



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Re: [Snowdrift-design] new video script draft

[mray]

On 11.01.2017 21:22, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> On 01/11/2017 11:57 AM, mray wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 11.01.2017 17:21, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>>>
>>> I already started a new thread to discuss the story-boarding. Do we
>>> really need the audio files before starting that storyboarding process?
>>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
> 
> Please forgive my ignorance here. Can you explain why you need audio
> files instead of just the written text in order to do storyboarding? It
> just makes no sense to me at all. I don't imagine that storyboards
> already need millisecond-to-millisecond timing notes or anything. Don't
> we just start by drafting some images and ideas for what goes with the
> script?
> 
> I can understand that having audio is nice, but a hard requirement
> before we start working on and discussing storyboarding. I really don't
> get it.
> 

Imagine making a music-video with only having music sheets beforehand.
You *could* do it - but waiting for the recording is better.
I don't want to put pressure on you, but I guess recording a few takes
should be possible soon. Unless we have to wait very long I think
waiting is worth it.

Concerning the next steps I don't plan to have a workflow that is
remotely similar to the one of the script. I expect to work on this
inside the design circle and seek acceptance/feedback when there are
results to talk about.






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