[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2011-09-03 Thread Timothy Arceri
In nautilus 3.1.4 this is no longer an issue as the back/forward buttons
no longer have text and are the same size. Marking as fix released as is
no longer an issue in Oneiric.

** Attachment added: Back%20Forward%20same%20size.png
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/390724/+attachment/2351297/+files/Back%2520Forward%2520same%2520size.png

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Status: Triaged = Fix Released

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Status: Triaged = Fix Released

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  Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2010-11-24 Thread Bilal Akhtar
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
 Assignee: (unassigned) = Papercuts Ninja (papercuts-ninja)

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2010-06-13 Thread Vish
** Tags added: nautilus

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-12-21 Thread Sense Hofstede
** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Status: Confirmed = Triaged

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-09-05 Thread Marcus Carlson
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
 Assignee: Marcus Carlson (0-launchpad-mejlamej-nu) = (unassigned)

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-08-13 Thread mac_v
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Status: Confirmed = Triaged

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Importance: Undecided = Low

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-08-13 Thread mac_v
Marcus , could you take a shot at this?

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
 Assignee: (unassigned) = Marcus Carlson (0-launchpad-mejlamej-nu)

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-08-13 Thread Marcus Carlson
I've tried setting both back and forward to homogeneous but it didn't
help (not sure why, no warnings/error - nothing). And forcing the button
to a specific width would create more problem (icons only, text besides
icons, different theme/language/font etc) than it would solve. So at the
moment I'm out of ideas.

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-25 Thread Sebastien Bacher
Andy you seem very interested in this small usability issue but you
generated enough comment to clearly state your opinion by now so it
would be time to stop there and let people do work next, stating the
same things again and again will only spam people by email and annoy
them

that said I'm not convinced that having lot of padding and empty space
on each side of the label in locales where the wording is very different
for previous and next would be better looking that having buttons
fitting the label

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-25 Thread Andy.hall06
Well I had too. You still don't seem to understand that this is not a
subjective issue based on my perception. Its an objective design flaw.

I just tested some other GTK apps and this issue could not get funnier.
In Eye of Gnome, you have a customisable toolbar. Try dragging a button
with a long name (such as properties, slideshow, show last) and see what
happens. ALL the buttons readjust their size in order to be the same
size as the largest button. So the button wraps around the text of the
largest button and all the others adjust to that largest size for
consistency. Works much better than Nautilus. Earlier I thought maybe
the GNOME HIG were flawed, but certainly the discrepancy between EoG and
Nautilus means one of them isn't following the guidelines. So definitely
a bug and not my opinion. With you buttons to fit labels paradigm, you
could potentially have all buttons of different sizes. That would
certainly be a nightmare. I have nothing further to say. No more spam
from this end.

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-25 Thread Sebastien Bacher
having all buttons identic means that you can easily have button not
fitting on the toolbar if one label is a long word in your locale though

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-24 Thread mac_v
Also i tried hacking 
/usr/share/nautilus/ui/nautilus-navigation-window-ui.xml 
[this file can be used to change the nautilus toolbar layout]

For some reason , changing the label here, doesnt seem to work... need
to look deeper

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-24 Thread Sebastien Bacher
let's wait for the design team to comment, not sure if it's better to
have consistant button look with extra spacing around the label or the
button matching the label

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Status: Incomplete = New

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-24 Thread mac_v
I'v added a edited version of the back button,  it does, seem to have a
better appearance...

And as Sebastien has said it seems the Back Button is smaller due to the
stretch to fit...

Could a quick edit be ADDING 2 spaces in front of the word Back and 1 spaces 
behind... 
 like so   Back  ?
I'm not sure where to edit this, if someone could point me where the labels are 
set , i could try to check the hack...



** Attachment added: EDITEDBack button.png
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28274976/EDITEDBack%20button.png

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-24 Thread Sebastien Bacher
 Could a quick edit be ADDING 2 spaces

the workaround would work for english only, translations will have
different labels

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-24 Thread Andy.hall06
mac_v,

Your screenshot looks much much better than the default. The spacing too
looks consistent.

I don't know how the actual code works and know nothing about
programming, but from what I see at the UI level, the two drop down
buttons are separate buttons (seem to be be even if they aren't) from
the Back and Forward buttons. So why is BACK a separate widget from
every other button like UP,HOME? It could be the same and the drop down
arrow be separate.

Ideally a much better way of doing it would be to have only one single
drop down arrow for both the BACK AND FORWARD. This is the method
adopted in Firefox by Mozilla and numerous other File managers and Web
browsers. It's merits are obvious, both the drop down currently show the
same set cut into two pieces determined by where you currently are. In a
single arrow implementation, it will show a full history with a radio
button/dot to indicate where you currently are. '

Furthermore, the HOME button needs to go (the STOP and RELOAD are also
fairly useless but can come into play when browsing files over the
network, they could and should be combined however). All of this just
increases productivity and more importantly space efficiency, which is
very important for users with smaller screens which are now very popular
due to this small  little (pun intended) not-so-transient fad
callednetbooks.

But since I can barely convince people of the current issue, I guess I
better just leave all that alone :P

But wait! what is this:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/386150

Wow, now THOSE are big changes, and it gets a CONFIRMED tag!
Does that mean it will be implemented in 9.10? :D
Lol and here I am pushing for a slightly larger back button.

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-24 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
This is a valid bug. It is ugly for buttons to be nearly the same width
but not quite: they should be either exactly the same width, or
obviously and intentionally very different. This means that if you
customize a toolbar (possible in other applications, but currently not
in Nautilus) to add a button that has a label wider than any of those
currently in the toolbar, the rest of the buttons should widen to match
it.

I reported the equivalent bug in Mozilla in 2000
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60553, and in Epiphany in
2005 http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169397.

** Bug watch added: Mozilla Bugzilla #60553
   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60553

** Bug watch added: GNOME Bug Tracker #169397
   http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169397

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Status: New = Confirmed

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-24 Thread mac_v
Confirmed status: due to  related Bug #386150

@Andy.hall06

Actually that is not my screenshot, it is an edit of Your screenshot
;p...

I'v seen the other Bug too, hopefully this will be in the same milestone as 
that...
 since papercuts team seems to be doing bugs related to same apps in a single 
milestone... :)


** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Status: New = Confirmed

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-24 Thread Andy.hall06
Lol, yeah I know. I meant your work modifying it is great.

I have another usability question. If GNOME has so designed Nautilus that the 
button wraps around the text, what the hell happens when in some non-English 
language, the back and forward words are so mismatched that one is very long 
and one is very short? Does one button then look twice as big as the other? 
Further evidence of bad design!
Ideally, the buttons would be identical and then you would adjust whatever is 
to be displayed accordingly. Ultimately the button and it's icon are the 
important things [universal to understand], the text is just there for new 
users and to improve usability.

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Sebastien Bacher
having screenshots would make the issue clearer

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Andy.hall06

** Attachment added: Up button
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28246854/Up%20button.png

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Andy.hall06

** Attachment added: Forward button
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28246864/Forward%20button.png

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Andy.hall06

** Attachment added: Forward button
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28246865/Forward%20button.png

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Andy.hall06
Sorry for multiple posts, could not figure out how to get multiple
attachments in the same post. Anyway above I have posted the Up and
forward buttons for comparison and this here is the back button. Default
'text below icons' and default themes (although I did not see it change
in any of the 20+ themes I tried, the problem remains). Even redundant
and useless buttons such as Home and Stop are bigger and the same size
as the rest.

I mean seriously, a STOP button in a file manager? :D That too not
combined with a reload button, is that some sort of easter egg or in-
joke :D

** Attachment added: Back Button
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28247127/Back%20button.png

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Sebastien Bacher
that's not really a bug but the buttons are adapted to the label, what
else would you suggest?

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Andy.hall06
No. Else the UP button should be even smaller. So it is not adapted to the 
label just like it isn't a theme issue, I tried a dozen themes, nothing fixed 
it and anyway, the default theme that matters has the issue as well. 
If it is indeed adapted to the label, then it definately is a traditional bug 
since the adaptation is inconsistent (since the UP is so big)

Otherwise I agree its not a traditional bug but it is exactly the sort
of issue the 100 bugs project is for.

Quoting From:
https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts

- bugs that are system-wide (Nautilus, Gnome panel, etc), rather than 
app-specific (F-Spot, OOo, Terminal, etc.)
- bugs that impact standard workflows (like connecting to the network, copying 
files, browsing folders, etc.), rather than specialised or corner case workflows
- bugs that are easy to address, rather that ones that require significant 
design or development efforts
- issues with existing features, rather than requests for new features
- bugs that relate to usability and design (like size of the notification 
bubbles), rather than broken software (e.g. notifications flickering in 
fullscreen)

Point by point:
-This is system wide and is to do with Nautilus as stated by first criteria
-It is to do with browsing folders as stated by second criteria
-It is easy to address as stated by third criteria, it won't take a re write or 
significant tweaking to fix, it's a very minor UI change
-It is to do with an existing feature as stated by fourth criteria
-It is precisely to do with usability AND design as stated by final criteria, 
besides, the example of the size of notification bubbles in amusingly analogous 
to this issue of size of the most used file browser button.

I would be hard pressed to find an issue that fits the stated criteria
of the 100 bugs project better.

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Andy.hall06
Look I am not on a personal crusade to get a bigger back button :D

It's just that when I saw this 100 bugs project, it made me think, this
is EXACTLY what Ubuntu needed since its a little rough around the edges,
these are the sort of things that affect the perception of people as to
whether or not Ubuntu is a polished product.

Design consistency is a very basic design principle and one that
everyone should be able to understand. The fact that right now it is
inconsistent cannot be disputed for the reasons I have already outlined
above.

But this issue is not only to do with design or UI, rather it is also a
much bigger usability issue. See this to get all technical about the
issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts_law

To experienced UI designers, the current Nautilus window will
immediately standout as wierd. It's not just that the back button is
small, its more to do with the fact that it is smallER than the other
buttons despite being one of the most important (if not the most
important) on that toolbar. What further violates the law is that
totally redundant or little used buttons such as STOP, RELOAD and HOME
are much bigger than it. This is not just personal preference, the
stop/reload buttons are fairly redundant in a file browser, they could
become more important while browsing over the network (local or wide
area) but even then they would never be used as often as BACK. Similarly
HOME is made redundant by the side pane showing the file directory.

Hope that is sufficient detail to get this rectified in 9.10

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Sebastien Bacher
not sure why you think those buttons are not streched to fit the label
but thet are, the up button is not the same widget since it doesn't have
an arrow which opens a list next to it, the issue is not specific to
nautilus other gkt applications using such button have the same
behaviour, it would also look weird to have lot of spacing around the
text there

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Andy.hall06
If they indeed are, then that makes the issue worse, not better, because
now it's bad design since it is by intention, not just an oversight.
Like I explained above, this is not a matter of my personal preference
but derived from basic principles of design. Why would it look weird to
have similar sized buttons?? Design consistency will look weird?

That all GTK apps use such a system is not a defence, its not a good
thing. Just for knowledge though, in which other app can I see the same
behaviour? I haven't myself seen asymmetric back/forward buttons in
other apps. EOG/Gthumb etc have equal sized ones but I guess that is
because they do not have the drop down arrow next to them and no text to
fit to either.

I don't use epiphany but looking at the screenshots, it follows the
GNOME HIG closer than Firefox, and hence seems to suffer the same
problem as Nautilus. I know a lot of people were pissed off about
Firefox violating GNOME HIG but frankly, now I can see why they did
that. Epiphany and the GNOME HIG seem to have never heard of Fitts law
or of UI design in general, glad to know that Mozilla know its UI design
and have violated the GNOME HIG for a very very good reason.

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-23 Thread Andy.hall06
Because this seems to be going to and fro, let me just state a small
fact and put this into perspective:

Right now the most important toolbar button (the one used most often) in 
Nautilus is also the smallest.
I mean not only is it not the same size as the rest, it is actually smaller!
For whatever reason that might be(GNOME HIG, consistency with other GTK apps 
etc)

Think about that for a second :D

Since you correctly point out that the scope of the problem is much
bigger (GNOME HIG, GTK), I doubt it will be fixed now but lets not
pretend it is ideal. It is quite simply and objectively, bad design.

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-22 Thread Ilya B
** Also affects: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Undecided
   Status: New

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-22 Thread Pedro Villavicencio
could you take an screenshot of the issue? IIRC that's a theme issue.

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Undecided = Low

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Status: New = Incomplete

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) = Ubuntu Desktop Bugs (desktop-bugs)

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Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/390724
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Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee.

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[Bug 390724] Re: Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest

2009-06-22 Thread Andy.hall06
No not at all. Default theme, everything set to default. Do not disable text 
below icons (else you will not have the issue).
Keep everything default and you will see it. 
A screenshot might not help much because you won't see the button 
borders/margins unless you hover over the buttons. 

If you want, I could post 2 screenshots, one hovering over the back button and 
one hovering over any other button (like forward).
But you can check it out easily on your own install. It is 100% reproducible 
all the time.

-- 
Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/390724
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee.

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desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
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