On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:42 PM, running_rabbit07
ronnie.mcmas...@gmail.com wrote:
Bob, your only reason for rejecting ubuntu's buttons is stubbornness.
You just relabeled my fact based objections as a form of moral failure
so that you could reject them without having to even consider that my
Let's all PLEASE keep it civil. We can disagree on technical or policy
issues without engaging in personal attacks (or perpetuating a toxic
atmosphere by responding in kind to what we may perceive as personal
attacks by others). Thanks.
--
[Master] Window Control buttons:
I recently signed the Launchpad CoC, so I plan to not engage in people's
personal issues.
I think the changes made to the themes are awesome. Having the buttons
on the left makes for shorter travel distance between closing one window
and opening the menu to get the next application started.
--
Window Control buttons -- is that the most important thing to discuss
right now? I would rather like to know about these features which cant
wait until maverik. Further I think it makes sense to package stuff when
it's done, tested (and demanded).
--
[Master] Window Control buttons:
Well, if the community is so blindly ignored, then I should maybe switch
distribution...
I have been a convinced Ubuntu-User but if things develop that way...
I think the community is bringing the most new users. It is not the
Windows users that find Ubuntu and then really use it. Everywhere I
+1 to having it as an optional theme!
Definitely the wrong thing to experiment with without innovation at
hand already. ESPECIALLY ON AN LTS
-- Sent from my Palm Pre
On Apr 13, 2010 12:38 AM, Martin Wildam lt;mwil...@gmail.comgt; wrote:
Well, if the community is so blindly ignored, then I
In a LTS for custom peoples to use them left - show them that Ubuntu
have a new Brand with a new design (CHANGE).
Top-Arguments for left are:
- Gnome 3 (Commando-Bar and Activity are on the left)
- new feature arrives in the perfect 10 (10.10)
- shorter mouseways after a short training
- it looks
Top-Arguments for left are:
- Gnome 3 (Commando-Bar and Activity are on the left)
But there is another whole bunch of things on the right (e.g. all
applications from Autostart, which is for me: Skype, KeyPassX, Dropbox,
Shutter and YuuGuu for example. I need all those more often than the
sudo gedit /usr/share/themes/Ambiance/index.theme
sudo gedit /usr/share/themes/Radiance/index.theme
1. ButtonLayout=close,minimize,maximize: (default)
2. ButtonLayout=close,minimize,maximize:menu(my setting)
3. ButtonLayout=:maximize,minimize,close (I want it on right
Unfortunately, Mark Shuttleworth has said (see comment #564) that this
decision is final and that no complaints or negative votes would make
any difference.
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James, I think you may need to unset the gconf key. If you set a gconf
key as a user, then that setting stays in place until you change it.
When we update a package, we only update the system-default settings.
User settings don't get touched, generally. So, if you played with the
gconf setting
For completeness I filed a bug against gnome-themes-ubuntu regarding
the dust buttons still on the left: bug 561756
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There's currently two more bugs with this whole affair:
1) the classical dust theme still has buttons on the left. This looks
unintended and some people before confirmed that it is unintended.
2) The homosapien theme displays buttons incorrectly if there is only one
button (e.g.
** Attachment added: Screenshot-Appearance Preferences-1.png
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43796412/Screenshot-Appearance%20Preferences-1.png
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The following option no longer works as of 04/11/2010
2. To revert to old layout, run in a terminal:
$ gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string
menu:minimize,maximize,close
Apparently though I had already run the fix in the past, the
configuration has been reverted
FYI, As of 04/11/2010 the following is also NOT true. I have switched
back and forth from various themes... all buttons are on the left...
always! Sad thing for Ubuntu is that when the users 'do' upgrade there
will be a HUGE uproar. Unfortunately due to the way this issue has been
handled or
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 2:48 PM, James P. Carter
james.p.car...@gmail.com wrote:
FYI, As of 04/11/2010 the following is also NOT true. I have switched
back and forth from various themes... all buttons are on the left...
always!
Hi James,
Please file a separate bug report for this issue; it
@James: this could be because you have manually changed the gconf
settings. Either set them back to default or do a fresh install of
lucid. You should be able to change themes and move buttons to the
right. Since you are running a beta release, you cannot expect
everything to work perfectly.
--
On Sun, 2010-04-11 at 14:50 +, Bernhard wrote:
There's currently two more bugs with this whole affair:
1) the classical dust theme still has buttons on the left. This looks
unintended and some people before confirmed that it is unintended.
This is a temporary bug, it only affects Dust. it
@nomnex: I couldn't find a bug for it. That's why I asked if I should
file it against gnome-themes-ubuntu.
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On Sun, 2010-04-11 at 22:51 +, Bernhard wrote:
@nomnex: I couldn't find a bug for it. That's why I asked if I should
file it against gnome-themes-ubuntu.
I have read two reviews about the latest changes in 10.04 b2. both were
mentioning the Dust theme bug to be fixed for the official
I was pretty sure that after the community reactions were so negative
about the buttons now on the left that beta 2 will already have them
back on the right side again.
I read only through the first 50 and last 20 comments or so - I think
this should be far enough for switching back! And with
I am not sure why they changed their minds about the search engine,
though I am glad they did. Searching Yahoo for Ubuntu fixes just wasn't
working well. Google loves us, so we should love them back.
I did notice that when choosing themes other than Ambiance, Dust, and
Radiance, the buttons are
these are--for me--the proper layout, design, etc. of the button on 10.04 (all
themes)
is there a way to have these buttons on the new Radiance/Ambiance themes and
how (tutorial, link)?
i have already posted the following, but I am not found of the round Mac OSX
like buttons and their location
You've got to love the inconsistencies in the ubuntu development team at
the moment.
At one end (a search engine) oh we can't change to yahoo! no one will
know how to use the new search engine and will all get l...@!? and at
the other end (the buttons), it's we'll change them no matter what
On 07/04/10 19:42, running_rabbit07 wrote:
Bob, your only reason for rejecting ubuntu's buttons is stubbornness.
This is a straight ad hominem attack, and is completely unacceptable
under our Code of Conduct.
Bob, my apologies for this. Ronnie, please refrain from framing your
arguments as
On 07/04/10 21:52, Pyramid Technologies wrote:
Yet another voice against this move
http://www.zdnet.com.au/new-ubuntu-look-too-destructive-339302224.htm
The specific issue he raises there looks to me to be a bug, in that the
entire corner area is being used as a click target for the
On 07/04/10 23:34, Jonathan Carter wrote:
Is there anyway we can have Pyramid Technologies removed from commenting
on this entry (or even Launchpad entirely)?
I've written to Pyramid and asked him to shift his line of discussion to
the Forums, where it would be more appropriate, and to
Had a night to sleep on this. Although I am still opposed to the button
decision, I would be remiss to not at least give it a shot. So, I will
be trying 10.04 with the buttons in the goofy position and after I run
it for a while, I will be in a better position to comment/provide
constructive
Mark,
You are right and I apologize for attacking Bob. It was very
unprofessional of me.
Thank you for sharing this amazing product and hopefully this new
innovation your team is working on will push us towards fixing bug #1.
Cheers,
Ronnie
--
[Master] Window Control buttons:
On 08/04/10 17:54, running_rabbit07 wrote:
Thank you for sharing this amazing product and hopefully this new
innovation your team is working on will push us towards fixing bug #1.
You're very welcome, and thanks for your participation and consideration.
Mark
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After all these comments we can conclude that the main difference
between the two sides is: Shorter Mouse Movements vs. User's Precision.
The first one is a fact and the second one is nothing but exercise and
habit.
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Pako,
People are not precise. They are however, creatures of habit.
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Pyramid, Maybe you should ask Mac users about their habits, or at least Rafael
Nadal who is naturally Right hander but plays tennis with his Left hand, and by
the way is Champion. Let me ask you something. What would happen if you try to
wear lenses that will reverse your picture upside-down?
@Pako
Sorry, you conclusion didn't have anything to do with my argumentation stated
in #639.
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hills, but there are few users including me that already found
advantages in left side buttons. Habits and Precision? After 5 days of
using the left side I was able to click the buttons very precise without
any error, even with closed eyes.
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there are few users including me that already found advantages in left
side buttons.
Key word here is few.
There are FEW Mac users compared to Windows users.
There are FEW Linux users compared to Windows users.
there are FEW people willing to adapt to such a change as the button order and
Pyramid, quantity is not always quality.
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I think Mark first rationale for the change was actually right and
overriding. He needs to clear the right corner to put something there
and he needs to do it 6 months in advance.
I can already sort of guess what it will be. Forget Esfera, it will be
some sort of live facebook chat/twitter
For anyone that hasn't left already (such as myself); if Ubuntu turns
into spware-adware-twitter-ware central in order to support it; that
will truly p*ss people off and make them leave Ubuntu. At least with
Windows there isn't some ad popping up in every titlebar window. No,
it's not yet there in
Think about how your grandma would react if she had been using
computers since 1971 and an X11 based GUI with the window buttons in
the upper right corner since 1986. How would she feel if she did an
update, rebooted, and found that the buttons were not where she
expected them to be. And, she also
(in case anyone asks: Why am I still posting here if I've moved to
Debian? Well, I'm in the lifeboat just watching the Titanic sink is
all.)
distrowatch.com
It's rising ... after publishing Lucid, it still will growing. No Titanic here!
Why? Because Ubuntu is cleaning up the ***old*** dust and
mouth (sorry)
@Bob
Yes with Windows... My first Computer was an Amiga and it was different.
It was bad? Nop! You will wonder the quick you can change customs. ,)
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No one, including rocket scientist can't tell which colour is the most
beautiful one. There is no most beautiful colour in the world.
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On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:38 PM, scholli scholli...@yahoo.de wrote:
mouth (sorry)
@Bob
Yes with Windows... My first Computer was an Amiga and it was different.
It was bad? Nop! You will wonder the quick you can change customs. ,)
You clearly have no understanding of what we have been
@Bob Our reasons are real and valid What reason?
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Your post is nonsense. Nothing I said had anything to do with
beauty. I was talking about how poor selections of colors can induce
eye strain and make it difficult to use a UI.
I am talking about well established principles based on decades of
experimentation and on the physiology eye and the
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Pako elektroban...@gmail.com wrote:
@Bob Our reasons are real and valid What reason?
Ok, I recognize a troll when I see one. Very funny. Ha Ha.
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Bob, your only reason for rejecting ubuntu's buttons is stubbornness.
The fact that your grand mother was using a computer shows she is
capable of change being that most likely when she was born there were no
TVs much less computers. How many people were really using desktop
computers in the 70s?
@scholli
It's rising ... after publishing Lucid, it still will growing. No
Titanic here! Why? Because Ubuntu is cleaning up the ***old*** dust and
is the only one with a shiny, modern look. This is what peoples are
***looking for**'
Yes,iPad sales were up initially too. All this demonstrates if
Yet another voice against this move
http://www.zdnet.com.au/new-ubuntu-look-too-destructive-339302224.htm
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Bummer that the design team is doing this after all the opposition from
users. Even though I know you can switch the buttons back to the
original position, I will not upgrade to 10.04 because I feel this is a
fundamentally flawed change. I will likely switch distos. Meritocracy is
fine, provided
@jon..Mint may not be bad, but it's still part of the Ubuntu-strain.
better off going with the original Ubuntu steals all of it's code
fromDebian.
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the problem is that theses voices are only the minority.
The most ubuntu users, don't test Beta1 ,2 or follow every bugreport.
they will install the new LTS when its available and after the installation the
will be surprised/ annoyed / happy
maybe they will google for it, or they will stick to
From Planet Ubuntu in a blog post about Canonical reversing it's
decision to have Yahoo! as the default search vs. Google...which now
Google will once again be the standard in 10.04LTS..
No, unfortunately, not that (link gone, but pointed to this bug report)
decision. The decision to use
Is there anyway we can have Pyramid Technologies removed from commenting
on this entry (or even Launchpad entirely)?
* His behaviour is not in line with our code of conduct
* He doesn't contribute possitively
* He's made it clear that he has no interest in improving Ubuntu
I know I could just
I still not sure about the order. The big points of the initial-order
was:
1. unique - own face
2. consistence with the close-buttons in the tabs for example (right side)
3. you have to look a second for it (search for it a little bit) before closing
... time for thinking: you want close really!
scholli: sadly this issue has still suffered from the silent treatment,
even during the second adjustment, so there hasn't been any substantial
information about /why/ the change could have been made. That's not
fixable quickly, and it's not something that I can directly fix
This is a bit of a plug, but given that you have switched to OS X-style
window buttons by default, you might also look at installing the Gnome
global menu applet ( http://code.google.com/p/gnome2-globalmenu/ ) by
default, to avoid issues like people clicking on close when they
wanted to click on
Yes! That is a great idea, Michael!
Gnome global menu applet ( http://code.google.com/p/gnome2-globalmenu/ )
is a very good way of avoiding the problem of clicking Close when
intending to open the File menu.
I hope this can be made the default for the new button-paradigm-shifted
themes.
That
That would be great, if that won't break the consistence... but it does!
Sadly all non native gtk application have problems with globalmenu... wx
apps have an empty menu bar on their window while the actual menu moved
to the panel, others like oo firefox simply doesn't care about
globalmenu,
Post #647 validates a point I made long ago...that we are going to have
to hack workarounds. First, gconf, now this to make sure that you don''t
close out of the window instead of hitting the File menu. (Maybe
Canonical should move that to the right side and really confuse people
;) /snark)
Gnome
@Pyriamid
alternatively you can use LinuxMint. It has all the goodies of Ubuntu and it
has its own great design. Hopefully you will like it.
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running_rabbit07:
You should have added the next line showing your movement to the menu to open
the next window or app, which would make the travel to the close button on
the right a longer wasted path. With the close button on the left you don't
have to go far to open the next application.
No, Mac is already exceeded target. Now the target is Montavista and its
boot in less than one second ;)
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Sad news :-(
After so many people felling against this idea and
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/23899/ becoming the most popular idea
of the last 6 months in less than one, I really think that there is a
little bit of stubbornly behind of the decision of going ahead with this
unpopular move
Jd Evora:
First of all I think you put too much weight behind Brainstorm as a tool
to drive change inside Ubuntu. You actually shouldn't be at all
surprised that Brainstorm popularity has very little influence over
design decisions. It's never had influence in any technical decision
making and
Well brainstorm might not be anything, but its yet another sign that the
VAST majority of users oppose the idea. If you think the opposite is
true, then plz, enlighten me :].
Its a good thing to allow the button positioning to be controlled
through themes/skins. This provides options, which is
Brainstorm is just a technicality. The point is that
- many users thought of Ubuntu's organization as a democracy without
burocracy: when you have a nice mission (Linux for human beings), a
nice codebase to start from (Debian), a nice group of people and a nice
capital to start, who cares about
@hills You should have added the next line showing your movement to the
menu to open the next window or app, which would make the travel to the
close button on the right a longer wasted path. With the close button on
the left you don't have to go far to open the next application.
Arguments can be
Pyramid, You immediately start to be angry, I was just joking. Perceive
this more as fun and friendship rather than war, you keep been angry
though this bug is already closed.
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@Pako, Transference won't work. I'm not angry at all. Frustrated over
the stupid moves made by the UI team/Mark/Canonical, yes... but angry?
no.
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*Please* you two stop discussing your private issues here. This is a bug
report, if you want to talk about you like and existential questions,
use your mail or find a place to meet. You're really not furthering the
case of buttons on the right side with all this noise.
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This picture illustrates a typical book page, letter and dialog window.
** Attachment added: Book page, letter and dialog window
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43101864/page-letter-dialog.png
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Here we have GNOME desktop and an application window.
** Attachment added: GNOME destkop and application window
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43102195/gnome-window.png
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Finnaly, here you have a webpage in a browser tab.
** Attachment added: Webpage in a tab
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43102335/webpage-tab.png
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After making these pictures I would like to say that left top close
button is like:
1. confusing end point with start point in all GNOME interface (breaking
user's habits and effectiveness).
2. giving close option BEFORE user read anything (what he/she eventually
would like to close if he/she
Thank you.
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someday the ubuntu people (Mark and the design team mostly) must
understand that innovation is not copying the Mac themes and styles
especially in a way that makes the copy look cheap
FFS stop using ubuntu and go buy yourself a shiny new Mac people if
thats what you always wanted
so far people
Can we talk about Stability, Speed, Security, Functionality and Beauty?
Who on earth cares about BUTTONS?!
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I know this is off topic and probably my last comment (before someone
kicks me out of here :) but I like to share something with you. It's a
open source GPL software called Reactivision for the device called
Reactable (You can build your own reactable at home running on Ubuntu).
After all we
As near as I can tell, I'm probably one of the few (or maybe only one)
on the thread who has commercially/professionally dealt with the
consequences of a development group's rash UI decisions in a product
they support, and the types of users that come after you with pitchforks
and torches
This is an IOGraphica plot with 9.10 using Gnome2, and as reasonably
normal evening usage as I can get. Multiple interruptions, surf, email,
documentation review, etc...
** Attachment added: 9.10 - Gnome2: 1.9 Hours of reasonably normal usage
IOGraphica Plot from 9.10 with Gnome3. :) Different evening, standard
normal usage, interruptions, surfing, email, document review, etc...
Since Pako (I think it was Pako) brought up a good point for what about
Gnome 3?, I thought what about Gnome 3?. :) So I tried it as well
to get a
As near as I can tell, I'm probably one of the few (or maybe only one)
on the thread who has commercially/professionally dealt with the
consequences of a development group's rash UI decisions in a product
they support, and the types of users that come after you with pitchforks
and torches
@ Jeff:
A minor change that hardly affected me at all, it's had a 100%
negative (sometimes violent) reaction from 20 users I've polled.
I don't understand!? You updated to Lucid Beta1 in your company? It's
still not for productive work. In the final you will have the option for
putting them to
Mr. Jeff Burns, Firstly I want to apologise for my comment that I post
here some time ago. Let's analyse the computer users around the world.
INMO there are two kind of users in the world, If I'm wrong please
correct me. These are: The first one let we call them Geeks those are
the curious people
@ Jeff:
(Data and Gnome3)
See my data if you got accustomed to work with the buttons on left #489. I let
the mouse, if I am working in the center and left. You will notice shorter
mouseways simply, because all important actions happens on the left-side. About
Gnome3: All is important is on the
@scholli
Open my mind? With all due respect, I'm very open, but *likely* more
experienced on this type of thing. I'm running Ubuntu and Kubuntu and
pushing Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu and I'm an MCSE! My work is now Windows,
Mac and Ubuntu, but mostly Windows. AFAIK I'm the only one in the
@ scholli
re: (Data and Gnome3)
Hmmm, I think we just agreed. :) Woohoo. Gnome3 is a big carrot of
motivation to enable the moving the buttons to the left and not invoke
the pitchforks. In fact I would imagine some pitchforks would get
invoked if the buttons didn't shift with Gnome 3 due to
@Jeff Burns,
I'm in the same boat as you and second everything you said so far. Well
said, and I totally agree 1%.
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Pyramid Technologies, because you are experienced computing veteran, why
don't you build your own Linux Distribution. you can name it, hmm, let
say P.R.L, P will stands for Pyramid, R for Right Buttons Only and L for
Linux, I'll be your huge supporter and the very first user, What do you
think
Pako, because creating a Linux distro doesn't make me money; but
supporting Linux does. Were you just bored that you decided to try and
stir up some sh*t or what?
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@Mark:
For Ambiance/Radiance new themes... why not. But concerning other
themes, for instance Dust, what will be the final position?
When side have been made theme dependant a few days ago, old themes came
back to their right side origins... Only new defaults were left.
Yesterday, after
Is it only me who finds the form of the minimize and maximize icons
irritating? The first thing I do after (re-)installing Ubuntu is
deleting the lower panel and adding the windows list to the upper panel.
Thus, the minimize button (arrow down) no longer points to the window
list. More than once I
** Changed in: metacity (Ubuntu)
Status: Confirmed = Invalid
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Pyramid, Piko? Do you mean Pico? Haha for the very first time you made
me LOL. Nothing scholli won, he loose the dust theme left layout, so
make a donation for developer who made this change especially for you.
;)
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Yann, there was a post about this yesterday, check above. Dust buttons
are supposed to go back to right.
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Taken from another website, this post below illustrates many of things
I've said; so while the words below are not mine, their sentiment most
certainly is...along with many, many, many other people's sentiment as
well.
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/ubuntu-windo...
Let's say that Ubuntu wants to attract some of the Mac users, not just
Windows users. In Ubuntu 10.04 they can find both themes that will match
their needs. These themes are: Light theme (Left Side) and Human and
Dust themes (Right Side) + thousands of themes on gnome-look.org. What
so unclear?
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