My two user`s cents:
1. Let the Location bar distinct : it allows to display large paths
and
2. Let the Location bar distinct : it allows to display LARGE PATHS!
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i agree with seamus : Let the Location bar distinct to display large paths
Besides :
- improve nautilus search http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=428568
- Sidebar should categorize items displayed with headings
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=508404
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I much prefer the having the button to switch between breadcrumbs and
text url. We're talking about getting rid of redundancy, if we have
both, it's just plain horrible. If you use the button that switches the
breadcrumbs to the text, it stays that way when you open nautilus next
time. Also, if
I dislike the idea of a switching button, it seems indecisive.
If you take a look at the explorer breadcrumbs link i posted previously the
idea is that there is no need for a toggle button, click a location to go
back/forward, double click to convert to text, arrows in between to allow
branching
I hope you guys are not serious about inflicting this on your users.
If you want to simplify things, the gnome guys already did it for you
years ago, with spatial nautilus (you know, the default nautilus mode
that Ubuntu specifically patched out to not be the default?), which was
the hallmark of
To those who advocate removing the 'up' button: I disagree. It was
removed in Windows Vista, and someone had to make a shareware app to put
it back in. There are those of us who think linearly, and who use the
location bar by default. For us, it is a lot faster to use the up
button than to use
Even better, allow full customization of the toolbar like Firefox
does.
Working on it :) For more info see [1] or look at the WIP screenshot [2]
[1] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42834
[2] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=138712action=view
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Great work, everyone, but it is clear that this is not trivial to fix,
and therefore is not a paper cut.
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Status: Confirmed = Invalid
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Milestone: round-4 = None
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concerning my comment 130,
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=428568 is related
** Bug watch added: GNOME Bug Tracker #428568
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=428568
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@Marcus: sure, no problem...
I'v been using your ppa in Karmic, and my observations:
1: I Find the lack of the Up Button crippling.
I would even suggest replacing the Home button with the Up button.
But I have realized there is more space wasted due to the 2 drop down buttons.
We could remove
Oh... and before people jump on the Up not needed because of breadcrumbs.
Up is more useful than the Home , since Home takes you to one specific
folder,
While using Up you can go to any parent folder. Without moving the mouse , by
just repetitive clicking in one location, which is easier than
Agree. And we do not need Home button, since Home is a place and the
best place for a place is places :)
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Great job Marcus!
Only two things:
1. we could move Home and Search icons to places area, we need to free
space on main toolbar. I didn't like the double url-bar and search-bar.
2. in Places area, Home reference is ok, instead for Search (icon +
Search label) we could have an input text field.
I made some changes on Marcus mockup to explain my latest ideas...
1. for url-bar (a power-user solutions to browse) CTRL-L like firefox and other
apps
2. for location I made a mockup but I not so sure that could be usefull. We
have already Go menu in toolbar and less-is-more.
I didn't put my
mac_v 1) About the drop down buttons I agree they take up a lot of space and by
using Firefox style you mean right clicking the button?
mac_v 2) Yes I know, I've hardcoded it. Do we want to use the global setting
for nautilus? Personally I've never liked it because the applications I used a
lot
Danielsan474 - ahh, I now see what you mean.
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on nautilus-human-danielsan.png mockup:
1. like someone wrotes here, HOME is a place so I put this item in left-area
(aka Places area)
2. I like the two-status concept of Refresh-Stop and I place this icon-button
between Backward and Forward icons. If I don't want go back or go forward, I
marcus 1) Can't it be psychological to have a Home icon to click if I
get lost?
yes, it could be but Home is a place, not an action (go backward, make a
jump-refresh, go forward). The same for Search. In fireforx we didn't
have a left-area to put these items.
marcus 2) Input textfield in the
Looking forward...
since my left-area concept share some ideas with gnome-shell project,
this one should be an optional in long-run. It depend on what a user
want to do: click on Activities (gnome-shell) every time or use search-
places-folders in nautilus window.
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@Marcus ,
The Firefox style , i think you got it from Danielsan's explanation... if not,
firefox drop-down shows both the Back Forward locations
Other problems I found
1: The Search button is too close to breadcrumbs , its now easier to trigger
this bug
* About the Search button/field :
Danielsan474 said (comment 114) :
instead for Search (icon + Search label) we could have an input text field.
We don't need to click on a search-icon, open a windows or whatever and digit
some text; we could write directly on that field. If Joe wants more,
antistress wrote: Moving the the Search button away from the other
doesn't seem a good idea to me in terms of usability
Could you explain why?
But my reasons for suggesting moving search to the right:
The search is not the most commonly used navigation ,
If you use the ppa , you will realize
Upstream has said they won't commit any patch that will change the
toolbar and instead encourage working on the toolbar editor. (As I will
try to do)
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Will they not even consider changes to the location of the zoom options nor
the stop/reset amalgamation as those wouldn't really be fixed by an editor.
2009/7/18 Marcus Carlson launch...@mejlamej.nu
Upstream has said they won't commit any patch that will change the
toolbar and instead
Feel free to ask them :-)
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@Marcus Carlson: So does that mean this bug can be closed?
What about your ppa? would you stop working on it?
Either way, really appreciate the effort you took so far for this bug. :)
Also, any links/reports or discussions regarding the toolbar editor work
,would be nice
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mac_v, as far as I know Ubuntu doesn't want to have a lot of patches to drag
along, so continue working on this is just a waste of time, correct David?
But if Ubuntu would like to have patch for this I'd be willing to help.
The upstream bug for a toolbar editor is at [1] and there is an old
The upstream bug for a toolbar editor will not solve everything since
everybody here seems agree to say that Home and Computer should be only
in sidepane and sidepane is not configurable to add Computer
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Besides i've never find the Nautilus Search UI to be intuitive. It's very hard
to understand as far as i'm concerned.
Maybe the only Search button/entry effect should be to launch a dedicated
application (gnome-search-tool today (or a GUI for Beagle/Tracker), Zeitgeist
tomorrow for instance) ?
Mounted media is already in side-panel, So there is no need for this
fake computer thing anywhere
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Hi.
For the zoom option, it's possible to have an control like openoffice in the
status bar?
http://static.blogo.it/ossblog/openoffice-30-beta-1/big_03writer.png
Thanks
Donatello
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@Marcus Carlson:
Could we *exclude the drop down arrows when inactive* ?
ie. the drop down arrow is shown *only* for any location history having more
than 2 items.
Maybe the Up button could be squeezed-in ;)
Also your latest icon-text shows this bug
mac_v, I've begin talking to upstream too see what they think about
these changes before doing anything more.
For the interested I've created jaunty packages [1] to play with.
[1] https://launchpad.net/~0-launchpad-mejlamej-nu/+archive/ppa
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A package for the brave;
https://launchpad.net/~0-launchpad-mejlamej-nu/+archive/ppa
Note that this is just WIP and far from ready, it's just to get the
feeling for how it could work, not to be installed on your primary
desktop ;-) I could post some screenshots later.
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Screenshot of WIP.
Planned is to combine refresh/stop to one button.
** Attachment added: nautilus-human.png
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29135180/nautilus-human.png
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Marcus Carlson : how the zoom button is supposed to work ? You replace 2
buttons (zoom + and zoom -) with only one ?
And will the user be able to change zoom factor with mouse wheel like tday (see
my comment 83) ?
As i said comment 51, i don't want to trade usability for a bit of space
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antistress, the magnifier you see in the screenshot is not the zoom, it's the
search function.
Otherwise no changes.
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Therefore you remove the possibilty for the user to adjust zoom factor
with its mouse wheel.
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Marcus Carlson : please send another mockup with text under icons to
see how your idea behave in all configurations. Is the location bar
still visible ?
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antistress wrote
Therefore you remove the possibilty for the user to adjust zoom factor with its
mouse wheel.
Well, no, ctrl + mouse wheel will still be available.
Location bar is still there if you press ctrl + L or via menu. To
hidden?
Please try the package if you'd like to test it out.
@Marcus Carlson:
Can the 2 zoom buttons + the use normal size button , be shifted to the status
bar?
But i dont see the point, its not frequently used anyway. But will make
things easy for the users who do use it.
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Or even the menu bar, on the top right? If statusbar buttons is not a
simple task
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Status update;
I've now completed the combined stop/refresh button and new packages [1] should
be available soon. Attached is screenshots of the different toolbar states.
Comments?
[1] https://launchpad.net/~0-launchpad-mejlamej-nu/+archive/ppa
** Attachment added: states.png
Marcus Carlson :
1°) at present time, using mouse whell forszooming in or out is rather
intuitive since you only have to point zoom buttons and to use mouse wheel. No
need for combination : keyboard (ctrl) + mouse (wheel)
2°) When i said please send another mockup with text under icons to see
David, whats your comment on the mouse wheel zooming comment by
antistress?
antistress, sorry, I forgot that screenshot. Attached now.
** Attachment added: icon-text.png
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29176640/icon-text.png
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Some upstream action:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42834 (requesting the ability to
customize the toolbar)
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509660 (moving the Zoom and View As
controls to the main toolbar, complete with a needs-work patch)
** Bug watch added: GNOME Bug
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Really useful!
I'm hoping to see lots of changes to Natuilus on the next release of Ubuntu.
The Back, forward, home and all the buttons across that toolbar, together with
the labels, they're very huge, almost twice the size of the icons on firefox!
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I also made one mockup more with text under the buttons. This is because
it should follow the generic Gnome preference do you want to have text
under the buttons or not. I think the default buttons with text are ok.
I moved the Computer button to places (also can be found from Go menu in
case
Is it worth linking this bug up with the one at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/382626 as even
though they're not an exact match it seems evident that an overhaul of
nautilus' interface would be welcome.
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I've always felt, particularly on 15 and 14 laptop screens that
Nautilus' icons were bigger than they were useful.
How can we move this discussion beyond 'here's my preferences'? What's
the best way to approach user testing so this paper cut gets resolved?
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@Psy[H[]:
What would average users say after switching from windows, where there
is no system slowdown on loading thumbnails, to ubuntu, where system
becomes sluggish while loading them? Athlon 3000+, 1GB RAM; Core Duo
1,6, 1GB RAM - not top, but still not bad. But loading thumbnails in
nautilus
Loading thumbnails is only sluggish if you want a preview of the images.
You can switch that off under edit preferences preview. Then you get to
see the respective icons instantly. Even if it takes time to load the
previews, you can browse the file manager, while the previews are
loading, because
@Psy[H[] :
On 640x480 Nautilus window (assumed default file browser window size on
modern setup) current Stop and Reload buttons take about 128 x 64 pixels
space. That's 2.6% of window screen estate.
Let's assume average Ubuntu user users Nautilus window 1 hours a day without
pressing those
Hi everybody.
I think it was a good idea to see this movie:
http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/notes-from-a-gnome-3-mockup/
the modified nautilus might the colombo egg
hehehehe
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Now we have a useless buttons and proposal to just remove them as in no man -
no problem.
Yes, stop button is useless now. So make it useful, give it a function and
put it in as addable option. Make customizable panel with minimalistic default
arrangement. That would be satisfactory in this
2. What does the Stop button do?
I'm sorry but I laughed when I read this sentence. Seriously, I've been
using gnome for almost 8 years and I've never used the stop button. It
should definitely be removed
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I'll add my .02 cents. I prefer the Dolphin breadcrumb style above all
others that I've seen.
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Refresh is a state of mind, and this action could be between zero and
Inf+. We should take a decision, split this distribution of times in two
parts, what people think about a long-wait and not. 3 sec? 4 sec? more?
Local browsing, low number of files in a folder:
1. Joe open nautilus window and
Here is a comparison between the size of the chrome (gray) and the area where
you see the actual files (green) in the default nautilus window size on a new
(guest) account. This does not take into account tabs or the bar that appears
when you're about copy files to a writable cd.
Solving this
for those who want to remove zoom buttons, did you notice that you can change
the zoom factor using the mouse wheel on them ? It's very practical.
Besides, considering the zomm factor, Nautilus display more or less information
in icon view : folder name or folder name + content or folder name +
2 kikl
87 images may not be comparable with 500 or 1000. A quantity of photos on full
sd card from photo camera.
Why there is such a rush to make interface of nautilus *primitive*? Removing
duplicated buttons (three on the right) and reducing size of zoom controls
would be enough.
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For long time browsing, we could eventually put a message box after n
seconds to stop.
This is already there, right? If I try to open a certain folder or samba
share which takes a while, then a message box appears with: You can
stop opening this folder by clicking cancel or something like that.
I am not sure if this is relevant, however one Nautilus change I think
would be very useful would be to have as default the opening of folders
in a new tab when you double-click.
Of course you would still have the option of just viewing the files in
the current tab by clicking on the
At this point, I think a brainstorm discussion for this issue would be
far more suitable than a bug report...
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A mockup by Daniele Medri is nice. My variant would be with path layed
over launchpad buttons (with slashes and less spaces between). Also
with home in the side panel, and with functional stop button. If it is
to be used to stop loading thumbnails (in folders with a lot of pictures
it is a pain)
Oh! another idea: two-lined arrows in launchpad buttons could be
replaced with one-lined slashes. That would be more consistent.
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About stop and refresh buttons:
Refresh is not an action average desktop users does for his/her folders.
Nautilus automatically detects changes in the folders. There is no need
for refresh button, except in the corner cases like having remote file
mount which do not behave correctly. If we really
About stop and refresh buttons:
Refresh is not an action average desktop users does for his/her folders.
Nautilus automatically detects changes in the folders. There is no need
for refresh button, except in the corner cases like having remote file
mount which do not behave correctly. If we really
About stop and refresh buttons:
Refresh is not an action average desktop users does for his/her folders.
Nautilus automatically detects changes in the folders. There is no need
for refresh button, except in the corner cases like having remote file
mount which do not behave correctly. If we really
@Psy[H]:
Please see my comment above. Stop and refresh buttons are definitely
*not* essential if the computer is behaving as it should. They are just
for corner cases which are not often encountered. Thus, polluting the
normal user workflow screen estate with these button should be
discouraged.
Perhaps your attention for these two buttons is too captious.
I doubt that opening a folder with a lot of images is such a rare event to be
ignored. Loading thumbnails is not only slow, but also makes system sluggish.
In this case a way to pause and resume this process must be at hand.
And I
mockup 2:
- clicking on Home button (between right-left arrows) you should view
the home/personal folder with a new view. System info, the xdg folders,
and a link to classic view.
On breadcrumbs: for stop and refresh buttons you could follow menu
items. You don't need buttons... these buttons
in my mockup2, in space free aree we could put personal device for
rapid access... an usb disk-key, an mp3reader device, a photocamera
attached to the computer. Is what a user should see in Computer but
with rights to mount/unmount (polikykit could help here)
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I just opened a folder with nautilus. The folder contained 87 images and
two videos. The folder is located on a server connected to this computer
over a standard wifi connection. The thumbnails of the folder were
displayed practically instantly in the nautilus file manager. Therefore,
I think this
I don't even like how Firefox has no labels on its buttons (e.g. Home,
Back, etc.) while the rest of Gnome (a.k.a. Nauitlus) has labels
(preferences set at System Preferences Appearance Interface
Text Below Items... even if Firefox ignores this).
The reason Firefox ignores these preferences
The launchpad-style breadcrumbs are certainly an improvement, but I
personally feel that the more textual style for breadcrumbs (element
element element) would be better. Not only does KDE use this style,
but so does Windows Vista, and the majority of web sites that include
breadcrumb
I'm against decreasing the size of buttons!
If you're using mouse - it's fine. But not, when you're using a
touchscreen! I'm currently on a 12,1 tablet (HP tx2500) and these
buttons are usable, because my fingers easily fit on them. MS Windows
are unusable because of the small elements.
Same on
clickable text elements for bread crumbs is a good idea. To me, it is
not visually apparent that these text elements are actually clickable.
Maybe just a minor problem...
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This is the only downside I can think of to this style of breadcrumbs
versus the current style. That being said, as long as a hover state is
provided for the breadcrumb elements, I think it would be fairly
apparent that the elements are clickable. Overall, I think it would be a
win for usability
imo too much streamlining (moving the stuff to one toolbar) could get bad for
usability.
1) esp with the current implementation of the breadcrumb-toolbar it just looks
like another bunch of buttuns (a bunch of buttons should first be eliminated)
2) Merging the stop/reload button is a good
I think that Stop button should be used to stop loading thumbnails. I
saw a bug or a brainstorm idea about this, I do not remember... but it
would be better to give this button a needed function instead of just
removing it.
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Well, I want to disagree. The bread crumbs are really great! A coherent
look would be better. Give the bread crumbs a frame and the same color
as the folder they represent. If you display the url-bar in text form,
then why not display the url-bar as coherent bread crumbs? You display
the same
ShawnJGoff makes a good point that standard buttons are really not the
appropriate widget for the breadcrumbs. Not only are they an illogical
choice, they also look very unattractive. Instead, it would be
preferable if the breadcrumbs were made up of clickable text elements in
the following
That style of breadcrumbs looks very nice and much better than it is
now.
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a Mockup...
- with the launchpad style bar
- left panel items cutted or replaced
- everything else could be placed inside options menu
** Attachment added: a mockup
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28301139/bozza.png
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In some web browsers, Reload and Stop actions shares the same button
(set to reload when rendering is done, set to stop when the browser
is still processing his task)
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Please consider not trading usability for a bit of space
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I agree that cut, copy, paste delete is what you do in a file browser
a lot of the time, and so is very useful.
I know a lot of you use the keyboard shortcuts, but usually when I am
browsing I use the mouse and find that clicking on an option such as
copy or paste is a much more efficient way of
For the record, here is a Dolphin (KDE's file browser) screenshot ;
Dolphin with Ubuntu theme (to focus on GUI's elements et not on theme)
http://blog.rom1v.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/dolphin-gnome.png
(default nautilus : http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27797607/default_nautilus.png
)
You may
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#2: I agree with what none said. The stop button may be useful when you need
to stop a nautilus action, but not when you're just sitting there browsing a
folder. Ideally the button would be removed and a stop button could appear
somewhere whenever Nautilus is working.
#3: Despite criticism
There is no location to display when you are doing a search? How about
displaying the location/folder, in which you are searching? If you use
the search field, the search should be conducted by default in the
folder, which is open. In the current implementation, the search bar
replaces the
I definitely support Brian's idea to _group_ in a location bar all
those buttons showing the current fs path. And, if possible, we should
reduce their height sizing!
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Well, we have lots of ideas, but currently it's missing a developer's
clear opinion...
Dear Mat Tomaszewski what's your opinion? Have you got another
proposal or do you agree with one of the current ones?
When will you start to show us how are you going to change the toolbars?
Thanks
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Btw I want to propose the idea of removing the navigation toolbar (with
arrows) and leave only the one with radio buttons. I have seen it here
but with my theme I tried to make the look of nautilus even simpler.
** Attachment added: One Toolbar (real theme)
I use nautilus exactly the way dilomo has posted it.
1. Navigation toolbar is removed, but I dont think this wil be a sane
default. I sometimes need to alt-back or alt-forward, which would not be
an intuitive thing for a new user
2.Laco's first mockup looks good, but I need the icon-tree-compact
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