[Bug 556933] Re: "Update standard folders" should add language links to folders, not rename them
** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Debian) Status: Confirmed => Unknown -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: "Update standard folders" should add language links to folders, not rename them To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs/+bug/556933/+subscriptions -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933]
-- GitLab Migration Automatic Message -- This bug has been migrated to freedesktop.org's GitLab instance and has been closed from further activity. You can subscribe and participate further through the new bug through this link to our GitLab instance: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xdg /xdg-user-dirs/issues/16. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: "Update standard folders" should add language links to folders, not rename them To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs/+bug/556933/+subscriptions -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Launchpad has imported 4 comments from the remote bug at https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32342. If you reply to an imported comment from within Launchpad, your comment will be sent to the remote bug automatically. Read more about Launchpad's inter-bugtracker facilities at https://help.launchpad.net/InterBugTracking. On 2010-12-12T13:14:43+00:00 A-pirard-hotmail wrote: This was originally reported in: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs/+bug/556933 (which, I'm afraid, someone turned into a mess) xdg-user-dirs tries to rename standard folders (e.g. Desktop to Bureau (French), among other languages and folders). Renaming standard folders is incorrect because : - there may exist references to their files that would become invalid if renamed - if such files exist, xdg-user-dirs quite rightly does not rename the folder but just creates the new name - but then the user's files seem to disappear - and, for the same reason, the user cannot move his files harmlessly - similarly, there may be references to the folder itself, even if empty - and in fact, the Internet is full of references to ~/Desktop (which introducing xdg-user-dirs made invalid) (that's why those folders are called standard: their names mustn't change) The correct way is obviously: - to create symbolic links such as Bureau - Desktop (instead of renaming) - to never remove the symbolic link afterwards (in case references have been made to it) Temporary workaround: it almost already works: this is a proof of concept: If, before xdg-user-dirs comes to play, - one creates the symbolic link (Bureau - Desktop) - one makes sure to keep the folder (Desktop) nonempty (e.g. with hidden file), then xdg-user-dirs will not modify any name and the system will work superbly. Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user- dirs/+bug/556933/comments/26 On 2010-12-12T13:43:02+00:00 A-pirard-hotmail wrote: *** Bug 15765 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user- dirs/+bug/556933/comments/27 On 2010-12-14T01:00:56+00:00 A-pirard-hotmail wrote: PLEASE carefully read Bug 15765 for a description by Tim Miao of the problem in practical terms. Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user- dirs/+bug/556933/comments/31 On 2015-03-12T14:31:51+00:00 Psy[H[] wrote: I've just stumbled upon this: http://henrich-on-debian.blogspot.com/2015/03/localized-directory-name-is-harmful.html And that reminded me of the darn whitespace in russian Desktop localization. Links should be the answer! I think, it is time to revive this bug. Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user- dirs/+bug/556933/comments/32 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs/+bug/556933/+subscriptions -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided = Wishlist ** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Status: Confirmed = Triaged -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Debian) Importance: Unknown = Medium -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Debian) Status: Unknown = Confirmed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Since Freedesktop doesn't have a LP project, I set Debian as the project name but the actual upstream report is at https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32342 ** Also affects: xdg-user-dirs (Debian) via http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32342 Importance: Unknown Status: Unknown -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
@members of bug-control: Please set the Ubuntu part of this bug to triaged as this bug has been reported to the upstream. Thanks in advance! ** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Status: Incomplete = Confirmed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Thanks for changing your mind in time. The problem has been reported upstream: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32342 May I try once again to explain that ONE CANNOT RENAME STANDARD FOLDERS because there may exist references to them. Please stop repeating that I said that not renaming standard folders is a problem. I SAID THAT RENAMING STANDARD FOLDERS **IS** THE PROBLEM. Please try to understand that what I said is that symbolic links should be used INSTEAD of renaming. (We can use symbolic links. Instead of renaming ~/Desktop, let's make a ~/Bureau - Desktop symbolic link.) ** Bug watch added: freedesktop.org Bugzilla #32342 http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32342 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
** Tags added: iso-testing -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
** Description changed: Binary package hint: xdg-user-dirs + + Update: I made a more concise version of this text upstream at: + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32342 This applies to all Ubuntu (Gnome) versions up to 10.04. Note: understand Bureau below as the name of any standard folder in any language. For example, also Картинки = Pictures folder name in Russian. Summary: This report explain some of the many pitfalls caused by the renaming of Desktop to Bureau. These pitfalls can cause programs, scripts and the system itself to misbehave. A drastic solution is to make a Bureau - Desktop symbolic link instead. Furthermore, this seems very simple to implement, it almost already works. When a user changes the language of its profile she/he is asked a funny question in Desktop-1.png. Update standard folders to new language? He/she does not understand and he replies yes. From then on, obscure magic happens. Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed ~/Bureau, but only if it is empty. Let's assume it's not. Then a new ~/Bureau is created beside. If the user drags New file (Desktop-2.png) a little bit, it disappears (Desktop-3.png). It will reappear after the next Login, at which time all the other Desktop objects disappear. Then she/he makes a screenshot and is told that a file she/he doesn't see does exist (Desktop-3.png). Nothing is lost, the user has 2 desktops, Desktop and Bureau, only now showing, hard to guess. The same applies for Documents, Music, etc... total confusion. If some program unaware of this game looks for Desktop, it won't find it. Etc... etc... Confusion looks like the comments of (different) Bug #209513. Every time one refers to ~/Desktop, it's a mistake, and that's not only in programs... Every time someone writes cd ~/Desktop in sample code on the Web, and even worse in a script, they're doing a BIG MISTAKE. They should explain that, if and only if their system implements standard folders renaming, French people must type cd ~/Bureau, Russian ones cd ~/работая стол etc, even more complicated for the script. HOW SIMPLE !!! This is obviously not the way it should work. This is NOT Windows. We can use symbolic links. Instead of renaming ~/Desktop, let's make a ~/Bureau - Desktop symbolic link. EVERYTHING will continue to be able to refer to Desktop unchanged. And the user interface (Desktop, Nautilus...) will happily refer to ~/Bureau all the same. It will contain the same data, because the same folder. The only setting needed is the name to use : Bureau, meaning ~/Bureau, redirected at will. It's best to create the aliasing without asking the user any question. There can be a setting for those really wanting to see the folders' names in any language they choose. If the user changes language again, it's best to leave ~/Bureau intact in case it's referred to somewhere. The BEST OF ALL is that it already works. Almost... Before xdg-user-dirs comes into play, make sure Desktop is not empty and create ~/Bureau - Desktop. xdg-user-dirs will not change that and the aliasing will work free of all those inconveniences. User experience. The above kludge has been used for a 6-language 10-users couple of Ubuntu 8.04 systems. Beside ~/ being crowded with aliases in 6 languages, the only inconvenience has been Picasa. They found 6 times the pictures they eagerly looked for. They will have to learn that scanning a filesystem must not follow aliases. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 Title: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Fortunately you didn't yet report this bug to GNOME since xdg-user-dirs is actually part od Freedesktop *. I am very sorry for this confusion. New instructions are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/Freedesktop * As seen here: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/xdg-user-dirs Reporting this bug to upstream takes only few minutes, ally you need is a valid email address (but I'm not ready share my private email address to the whole world). -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
By the way, the original folder renaming issue (Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed ~/Bureau, but only if it is empty., from this bug's description) is already reported at bug 226436 -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Is there any news about this bug? Has someone affected by this bug sent the report upstream? Could you tell us the bug number, so we can add a bugwatch that will inform us about its status? Thanks in advance. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
I wrote I'll do my best to file this to Gnome asap. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
I'm sorry if the upstream was missing from comment 10 but in comment 11 I already was more clear (Bear in mind that this package is just synced from Debian. Debian gets the package from upstream.). Anyway, as stated in comment 13 that the upstream for this package is GNOME which bug tracker is available at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ and instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/GNOME -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
On 2010-08-27 16:26, papukaija wrote : I'm sorry if the upstream was missing from comment 10 but in comment 11 I already was more clear (Bear in mind that this package is just synced from Debian. Debian gets the package from upstream.). Anyway, as stated in comment 13 that the upstream for this package is GNOME which bug tracker is available at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ and instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/GNOME That's all right. Indeed I din't scrutinize every place after having looked at Debian. But, in general, words like we, you and upstream should be avoided ane replaced with Canonical/Ubuntu/the triagers/..., some user/a commenter/the reporter/André/aka Papou (или Папу)/..., Debian/Gnome/some person... I may try to contact Gnome, but not just now. I'd like to limit my time. Thanks. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Can you explain why there are 2 Debian bugs for - For what? I'll be trying to file a bug with Debian As stated in comment 13, the upstream for this bug is GNOME, not Debian. The bug tracker for GNOME can be found at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ Instructions for its usage are available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/GNOME In order for what's said in that URL to be achievable, could you please explain/point to the URLs explaining; - Sure. - assuming that the culprit package has been determined, not a given thing, A bug triager will check that a bug is reported against the rifgt package. More information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage - how do we know where its upstream is, and especially their bug reporting page? This is explained at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/ - how do we know that we will not lose our time and sound stupid being send away with that's Ubuntu's doing? -This is explained at http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/Packaging/WhyUpstream how can I report this bug to Debian simply and not lose my time? Is there a NORMAL bug reporting page? The correct page to report this bus is at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ Again, there is no bug 1. - If you would use Launchpad's web interface, you would have seen that 'bug 1' is a link to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 However, you may be the only one to believe that someone will make a mistake when he 1) replaces a rename with a link and 2) removes a rename. - Is this only men's world? Which some config files? - Maybe /etc/fstab, /etc/cryptab and files that are used when a kernel is build but I hope that you understand that I am not going to explain how to build a custom kernel. I just didn't know that you were the deciding person, sorry. - I haven't written Ubuntu's wiki pages. It seems I succeeded filing what seems to be Debian-Bug#594427 for this one. - I am sorry but that is not what was asked in comment 13. The correct bug tracker for GNOME bugs is at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ and instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/GNOME Please follow those instructions to report this bug to the correct upstream. Thanks in advance! -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
If your proposed fix is so easy to make then you might provide us a patch. That patch needs of course be forwarded to upstream because this package is imported from Debian * unless you (or someone else) are ready to provide a patch for every new upstream release. * As you can see at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs/0.12-1ubuntu1 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs/0.12-1ubuntu1 This text didn't exactly made clear who is us and who is upstream but all bets were to me that upstream is Debian. So, as I was requested to file the bug upstream, I filed it to Debian. Part of there answer is : You should bring this issue upstream. There is no reason for Debian to diverge from upstream on such a large scale. And please note that he doesn't say where upstream is. So, my conclusion is that: - everybody should do the job he's competent for and Ubuntu knows where their upstreams are - I'm fully competent with this problem, so I reported it - but the different reactions tell me that obviously no one wants to have that bug corrected - nor the other ones, 1, 2 or 3 years old. And so, my best option is not to lose my time reporting bugs any longer. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
** Description changed: Binary package hint: xdg-user-dirs This applies to all Ubuntu (Gnome) versions up to 10.04. Note: understand Bureau below as the name of any standard folder in any language. For example, also Картинки = Pictures folder name in Russian. Summary: This report explain some of the many pitfalls caused by the renaming of Desktop to Bureau. These pitfalls can cause programs, scripts and the system itself to misbehave. A drastic solution is to make a Bureau - Desktop symbolic link instead. Furthermore, this seems very simple to implement, it almost already works. When a user changes the language of its profile she/he is asked a funny question in Desktop-1.png. Update standard folders to new language? He/she does not understand and he replies yes. From then on, obscure magic happens. - Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed Bureau, but only if it is empty. + Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed ~/Bureau, but only if it is empty. Let's assume it's not. Then a new ~/Bureau is created beside. If the user drags New file (Desktop-2.png) a little bit, it disappears (Desktop-3.png). It will reappear after the next Login, at which time all the other Desktop objects disappear. Then she/he makes a screenshot and is told that a file she/he doesn't see does exist (Desktop-3.png). Nothing is lost, the user has 2 desktops, Desktop and Bureau, only now showing, hard to guess. The same applies for Documents, Music, etc... total confusion. If some program unaware of this game looks for Desktop, it won't find it. Etc... etc... Confusion looks like the comments of (different) Bug #209513. Every time one refers to ~/Desktop, it's a mistake, and that's not only in programs... Every time someone writes cd ~/Desktop in sample code on the Web, and even worse in a script, they're doing a BIG MISTAKE. They should explain that, if and only if their system implements standard folders renaming, French people must type cd ~/Bureau, Russian ones cd ~/работая стол etc, even more complicated for the script. HOW SIMPLE !!! This is obviously not the way it should work. This is NOT Windows. We can use symbolic links. Instead of renaming ~/Desktop, let's make a ~/Bureau - Desktop symbolic link. EVERYTHING will continue to be able to refer to Desktop unchanged. And the user interface (Desktop, Nautilus...) will happily refer to ~/Bureau all the same. It will contain the same data, because the same folder. The only setting needed is the name to use : Bureau, meaning ~/Bureau, redirected at will. It's best to create the aliasing without asking the user any question. There can be a setting for those really wanting to see the folders' names in any language they choose. If the user changes language again, it's best to leave ~/Bureau intact in case it's referred to somewhere. The BEST OF ALL is that it already works. Almost... Before xdg-user-dirs comes into play, make sure Desktop is not empty and create ~/Bureau - Desktop. xdg-user-dirs will not change that and the aliasing will work free of all those inconveniences. User experience. The above kludge has been used for a 6-language 10-users couple of Ubuntu 8.04 systems. Beside ~/ being crowded with aliases in 6 languages, the only inconvenience has been Picasa. They found 6 times the pictures they eagerly looked for. They will have to learn that scanning a filesystem must not follow aliases. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Let us try to be clear. What are you calling a folder renaming *issue*? - You wrote about it in this bug's description Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed ~/Bureau, but only if it is empty. If a folder contains data, it would be crazy to rename it. -That's what xdg-user-dirs is supposed to do when the a user changes system's language. In consequence of that bug the system MUST keep TWO desktops: Desktop and Bureau. The consequences for the user is to have desktop data hidden and maybe unmovable. This is proving enough that the folder renaming method is the buggiest thing on earth. -How would you fix bug 1? A symbolic link is avoiding that bug by having a single directory with two names. -Avoiding isn't the same as fixing a bug. (see the changelog for the recent system update for upstart). It does EXACTLY the same thing (same results) but in a manner without a bug but in a manner without a bug. -How can you be so sure that someone will write and package your solution without any bugs? 'If you think of it twice, making symbolic links does indeed create localized versions of these directories.' -For the user it looks so, but technically a symbolic link isn't the same as a folder/directory. Renaming directories is the worst thing to do. -And challenging Microsoft is the worst thing to do for fixing bug 1 instead of abandoning the whole Ubuntu project. If you're not sure of that, try renaming your /etc directory - /etc is just a default folder name. Just edit some config file and there you go. Or an other way: Make a new partition to your hdd/ssd or use an existing one from an internal/externel drive, move the etc folder (and rename it at the same to eg. mysystem) to that partition and edit needed config files. Now you could have moved and renamed your etc folder. I have no acquaintance with Debian and I do not want to report to Debian. The main reason is that, as you say it yourself, I do not want Debian to prevent Ubuntu improvements. Bear in mind that this package is just synced from Debian. Debian gets the package from upstream. I want to keep Ubuntu deciding if they want to apply simple fixes with high benefits. That would be much easier to do if there would be something to apply (to patch). It's up to Ubuntu to decide if they want to also send the report to Debian and wait 3 years for the fix to come. - No, the decision is already made and has to be followed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#A%20bug%20that%20should%20be%20handled%20upstream Thanks in advance. ** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Status: Incomplete = New ** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Status: New = Incomplete -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
The equivalent of this very simple fix has been tested for 3 years. Could you please be more specific? Who has tested and where? Thanks in advance. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Thank you for taking the time to report this bug and helping to make Ubuntu better. The issue you are reporting is an upstream one and it would be nice if somebody having it could send the bug to the developers of the software by following the instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/GNOME. If you have done so, please tell us the number of the upstream bug (or the link), so we can add a bugwatch that will inform us about its status. Thanks in advance. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
On 2010-08-25 15:51, papukaija wrote : - No, the decision is already made and has to be followed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#A%20bug%20that%20should%20be%20handled%20upstream Can you explain why there are 2 Debian bugs for I'll be trying to file a bug with Debian, but I've already spent a good time *trying* to. I landed on www.debian.org/Bugs/ [Reporting] requesting me to send an e-mail form (*). In find e-mail forms extremely adequate. But only after preparing them with a Web form emailing it to the user first is badly needed. In general: In order for what's said in that URL to be achievable, could you please explain/point to the URLs explaining; - assuming that the culprit package has been determined, not a given thing, - how do we know where its upstream is, and especially their bug reporting page? - how do we know that we will not lose our time and sound stupid being send away with that's Ubuntu's doing? In particular : how can I report this bug to Debian simply and not lose my time? Is there a NORMAL bug reporting page? (*) here is how their recommended method goes (it starts by asking me to retport the bug to Ubuntu)... $ sudo aptitude install reportbug; reportbug ... *** ERROR: Ubuntu BTS is currently unsupported. Please use ubuntu-bug (from the apport package) for reporting bugs in Ubuntu. You can report bugs to Debian by using bts=debian (see reportbug(1)). guessed man, -B SYSTEM, --bts=SYSTEM Instead of the Debian bug server (or the bug server specified in /etc/reportbug.conf, which is ubuntu by default on Ubuntu systems), use the server specified by SYSTEM. You can specify help to get a list of supported servers. determined -- $ reportbug --bts=debian Welcome to reportbug! Since it looks like this is the first time you have used reportbug, we are configuring its behavior. These settings will be saved to the file /home/p/.reportbugrc, which you will be free to edit further. Please choose the default operating mode for reportbug. 1 noviceOffer simple prompts, bypassing technical questions. 2 standard Offer more extensive prompts, including asking about things that a moderately sophisticated user would be expected to know about Debian. 3 advanced Like standard, but assumes you know a bit more about Debian, including incoming. 4 expertBypass most handholding measures and preliminary triage routines. This mode should not be used by people unfamiliar with Debian's policies and operating procedures. Select mode: [novice] 2 Please choose the default interface for reportbug. 1 text A text-oriented console interface 2 urwid A menu-based console interface Select interface: 2 Will reportbug often have direct Internet access? (You should answer yes to this question unless you know what you are doing and plan to check whether duplicate reports have been filed via some other channel.) [Y|n|q|?]? y What real name should be used for sending bug reports? [Papou] Which of your email addresses should be used when sending bug reports? (Note that this address will be visible in the bug tracking system, so you may want to use a webmail address or another address with good spam filtering capabilities.) ... ... Do you have a mail transport agent (MTA) like Exim, Postfix or SSMTP configured on this computer to send mail to the Internet? [y|N|q|?]? n Please enter the name of your SMTP host. Usually it's called something like mail.example.org or smtp.example.org. Just press ENTER if you don't have one or don't know. ... If you need to use a user name to send email via smtp.ulg.ac.be on your computer, please enter that user name. Just press ENTER if you don't need a user name. Default preferences file written. To reconfigure, re-run reportbug with the --configure option. *** Unable to import urwid interface: Please install the python-urwid package to use this interface. Falling back to text interface. *** ERROR: Ubuntu BTS is currently unsupported. Please use ubuntu-bug (from the apport package) for reporting bugs in Ubuntu. You can report bugs to Debian by using bts=debian (see reportbug(1)). $ sudo apt-get install python-urwid ... ... ... Processing triggers for python-support ... $ reportbug --bts=debian And that was quite basic, but it worked. Well, I hope. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
On 2010-08-25 15:53, papukaija wrote : The equivalent of this very simple fix has been tested for 3 years. Could you please be more specific? Who has tested and where? Am I asking who is your girlfriend (подруга?) and where she lives? ;-) 8 persons for which I installed 8.04 in English and who run it in another language. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Debian-Bug#594427
It seems I succeeded filing what seems to be Debian-Bug#594427 for this one. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
On 2010-08-25 15:51, papukaija wrote : Let us try to be clear. What are you calling a folder renaming *issue*? - You wrote about it in this bug's description Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed ~/Bureau, but only if it is empty. I was asking what are you calling an *issue*, what is your definition of this fuzzy word. That renaming problem is not an issue=bug, it is the issue=consequence of a bug. A bug amounts to code you can change to have something done correctly. If a folder contains data, it would be crazy to rename it. -That's what xdg-user-dirs is supposed to do when the a user changes system's language. Hence, by way of hypothetical syllogism, xdg-user-dirs would be supposed to do crazy things when the a user changes system's language. Hence, ab absurdo, if Ubuntu is not supposed to be crazy, xdg-user-dirs is not supposed to do that. In fact, it is supposed to have the desktop appear as Bureau by whatever method is appropriate and it uses rename which is the wrong one instead of symbolic link which is the good one. That wrong choice is the bug. In consequence of that bug the system MUST keep TWO desktops: Desktop and Bureau. The consequences for the user is to have desktop data hidden and maybe unmovable. This is proving enough that the folder renaming method is the buggiest thing on earth. -How would you fix bug 1? Again, there is no bug 1. That's something you invented. There is a problem 1 that disappears when what you call bug 2 is fixed. A symbolic link is avoiding that bug by having a single directory with two names. -Avoiding isn't the same as fixing a bug. (see the changelog for the recent system update for upstart). I'm sorry. I should have written avoiding a *problem*. Fixing a bug is avoiding a problem. You make me write a lot. It does EXACTLY the same thing (same results) but in a manner without a bug. -How can you be so sure that someone will write and package your solution without any bugs? I did not say that he will not add a bug I said that he will remove one. However, you may be the only one to believe that someone will make a mistake when he 1) replaces a rename with a link and 2) removes a rename. But systems that have been damaged by that bug must be repaired. 'If you think of it twice, making symbolic links does indeed create localized versions of these directories.' -For the user it looks so, but technically a symbolic link isn't the same as a folder/directory. Yes. Not only for the user, for every program in the system. The opengroup.org definition is A type of file with the property that when the file is encountered during pathname resolution, a string stored by the file is used to modify the pathname resolution. That means that any program accessing Bureau will in fact access Desktop transparently. And that is exactly the goal. The only programs that will notice the difference are those specifically asking is it a symbolic link? because they scan the filesystem and they do not want to find the same data twice or they want to copy symbolic links as such. Renaming directories is the worst thing to do. -And challenging Microsoft is the worst thing to do for fixing bug 1 instead of abandoning the whole Ubuntu project. Not understood. If you're not sure of that, try renaming your /etc directory - /etc is just a default folder name. Just edit some config file and there you go. Or an other way: Make a new partition to your hdd/ssd or use an existing one from an internal/externel drive, move the etc folder (and rename it at the same to eg. mysystem) to that partition and edit needed config files. Now you could have moved and renamed your etc folder. Which some config files? What you say sounds like pre-re-installation steps. I have no acquaintance with Debian and I do not want to report to Debian. The main reason is that, as you say it yourself, I do not want Debian to prevent Ubuntu improvements. Bear in mind that this package is just synced from Debian. Debian gets the package from upstream. I want to keep Ubuntu deciding if they want to apply simple fixes with high benefits. That would be much easier to do if there would be something to apply (to patch). It's up to Ubuntu to decide if they want to also send the report to Debian and wait 3 years for the fix to come. - No, the decision is already made and has to be followed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#A%20bug%20that%20should%20be%20handled%20upstream Yes, sometimes Ubuntu make modifications of their own. I just didn't know that you were the deciding person, sorry. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
It seems we're off again to very long discussions to prove the obvious. On 2010-08-23 12:40, papukaija wrote : There are two issues in this bug report. The first one: folder renaming issue. Let us try to be clear. What are you calling a folder renaming *issue*? There is a folder having been renamed problem but NO further renaming solution. If a folder contains data, it would be crazy to rename it. Simply because the data in it would no longer be found (references no longer valid). In consequence of that bug the system MUST keep TWO desktops: Desktop and Bureau. The consequences for the user is to have desktop data hidden and maybe unmovable. This is proving enough that the folder renaming method is the buggiest thing on earth. I never said anything else than that linking should be used instead of renaming. The second: You want xdg-user-dirs to have a completely different way of handling system language changes (directory renaming - creation of symbolic links). A symbolic link is avoiding that bug by having a single directory with two names. It is a very simple and bright idea. I asked in comment 2 if you want this bug report to be about the folder renaming issue. You answered yes (comment 4) and I adapted this bug title and description. Then you changed your mind in comment 6 and 8. By the way, I changed this bug title back to its original that you used at the time of reporting this bug. I'm sorry I did not understand you were suggesting an impossible solution. I thought that you were speaking of what I am saying. I did not change my mind, I know exactly what I suggest. It is time choose what issue you want have in this bug report. If you choose the first one, it's obvious that this bug's title and description need updating to make it a bug instead of wishlist/feature request. There is nothing to choose. I never spoke of more than one thing. I do not accept changing what I say to something impossible. This packages description says: This program reads a configuration file, and a set of default directories. It then creates localized versions of these directories in the users home directory and sets up a config file in $(XDG_CONFIG_HOME)/user-dirs.dirs (XDG_CONFIG_HOME defaults to ~/.config) that applications can read to find these directories. - Your proposed fix (symbolic links which I consider as a workaround) is the complete opposite to what this package does and therefore has to be reported to upstream. Please bear in mind that the upstream might not accept your proposition. My proposed fix is not a workaround but a clever fix for a very stupid bug. My fix does not do the opposite of what that package does. It does EXACTLY the same thing (same results) but in a manner without a bug. If you think of it twice, making symbolic links does indeed create localized versions of these directories. Renaming directories is the worst thing to do. If you're not sure of that, try renaming your /etc directory. If your proposed fix is so easy to make then you might provide us a patch. That patch needs of course be forwarded to upstream because this package is imported from Debian * unless you (or someone else) are ready to provide a patch for every new upstream release. * As you can see at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user- dirs/0.12-1ubuntu1 Anyone not accepting my solution did not understand. Ubuntu requests users to report bugs to Ubuntu and this is what I did. I have no acquaintance with Debian and I do not want to report to Debian. The main reason is that, as you say it yourself, I do not want Debian to prevent Ubuntu improvements. I want to keep Ubuntu deciding if they want to apply simple fixes with high benefits. It's up to Ubuntu to decide if they want to also send the report to Debian and wait 3 years for the fix to come. *I'm suggesting that Ubuntu themselves made the following modification.* Explaining with an example: When moving from English to French: Instead of (trying to) rename Desktop to Bureau: make a link Bureau - Desktop When moving back from French to English: Instead of (trying to) rename Bureau to Desktop: do nothing (this is because there may exist references to files inside Bureau) The equivalent of this very simple fix has been tested for 3 years. Note that this only creates a correctly working system. Extra steps must be taken to correct the evil that's already been done. (merging and liking directories) It's up to Ubuntu to decide if they want a better Ubuntu. I myself am afraid to have spent more time than necessary and to have no more. Best regards. -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
There are two issues in this bug report. The first one: folder renaming issue. The second: You want xdg-user-dirs to have a completely different way of handling system language changes (directory renaming - creation of symbolic links). I asked in comment 2 if you want this bug report to be about the folder renaming issue. You answered yes (comment 4) and I adapted this bug title and description. Then you changed your mind in comment 6 and 8. By the way, I changed this bug title back to its original that you used at the time of reporting this bug. It is time choose what issue you want have in this bug report. If you choose the first one, it's obvious that this bug's title and description need updating to make it a bug instead of wishlist/feature request. This packages description says: This program reads a configuration file, and a set of default directories. It then creates localized versions of these directories in the users home directory and sets up a config file in $(XDG_CONFIG_HOME)/user-dirs.dirs (XDG_CONFIG_HOME defaults to ~/.config) that applications can read to find these directories. - Your proposed fix (symbolic links which I consider as a workaround) is the complete opposite to what this package does and therefore has to be reported to upstream. Please bear in mind that the upstream might not accept your proposition. If your proposed fix is so easy to make then you might provide us a patch. That patch needs of course be forwarded to upstream because this package is imported from Debian * unless you (or someone else) are ready to provide a patch for every new upstream release. * As you can see at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user- dirs/0.12-1ubuntu1 -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Thank you for taking the time to report this bug and helping to make Ubuntu better. However, you suggest that Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them while the real issue is that (in your case) ~/Desktop is renamed to ~/Bureau, but only if it is empty. Do you want to keep this bug as a feature/config change request or a bug about that folder renaming issue? ** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Status: New = Incomplete -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
On 2010-08-22 16:37, papukaija wrote : However, you suggest that Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them while the real issue is that (in your case) ~/Desktop is renamed to ~/Bureau, but only if it is empty. Do you want to keep this bug as a feature/config change request or a bug about that folder renaming issue? Thanks for reviewing this. The very fact that ~/Desktop disappears because it is renamed ~/Bureau is so full of hazardous and possibly severe consequences that YES YES YES it must be considered a bug. I just mentioned a few cases; they would fill a book. Of course, only those whom some people call foreigners (who renamed their Desktop) actually *see* the consequences of the problem (assuming they do not just shiver). But that doesn't mean the other ones do not *meet* the problem, and here is a good example. Every time someone writes cd ~/Desktop in sample code on the Web, and even worse in a script, they're doing a BIG MISTAKE. They should explain that French people must type cd ~/Bureau, Russian ones cd ~/работая стол etc, even more complicated for the script. Making a symbolic link instead of renaming is so obviously the solution (allowing to use either ~/Desktop or ~/Bureau) that I wonder why the only answer to my bug report is not Gosh, you're right. Again, I do not see at all what is Incomplete, the report is self-explanatory. And, once again, it is not *my* case, it is *the world's case*. I'm not reporting the bugs for myself but for the sake of Ubuntu. In fact, despite I speak French and as unforeseen as it may be, I run my session in English. But I've got Russian, Spanish and Romanian in other sessions, and that's great !!! -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
I'll update this bug's title and description since you see the renaming failure as a bug and symbolic link as a solution. About your example: That's why programmers use system variables like $HOME or XDG_MUSIC_DIR to avoid issues when a user changes the system lang. In fact, xdg-user-dirs-update (part of xdg-user-dirs) changes the file paths in .config/user-dirs.dirs. -- XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty
** Summary changed: - Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them + XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty ** Description changed: Binary package hint: xdg-user-dirs + BUG (shortly): XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new + language if it isn't empty + + BUG (in details): This applies to all Ubuntu (Gnome) versions up to 10.04. Note: understand Bureau below as the name of any standard folder in any language. When a user changes the language of its profile she/he is asked a funny question in Desktop-1.png. Update standard folders to new language? He/she does not understand and he replies yes. From then on, obscure magic happens. Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed Bureau, but only if it is empty. Let's assume it's not. Then a new ~/Bureau is created beside. If the user drags New file (Desktop-2.png) a little bit, it disappears (Desktop-3.png). It will reappear after the next Login, at which time all the other Desktop objects disappear. Then she/he makes a screenshot and is told that a file she/he doesn't see does exist (Desktop-3.png). Nothing is lost, the user has 2 desktops, Desktop and Bureau, only now showing, hard to guess. The same applies for Documents, Music, etc... total confusion. If some program unaware of this game looks for Desktop, it won't find it. Etc... etc... Confusion looks like the comments of (different) Bug #209513. - + PROPOSED SOLUTION (but why not just fix this bug): This is obviously not the way it should work. This is NOT Windows. We can use symbolic links. Instead of renaming ~/Desktop, let's make a ~/Bureau - Desktop symbolic link. EVERYTHING will continue to be able to refer to Desktop unchanged. And the user interface (Desktop, Nautilus...) will happily refer to ~/Bureau all the same. It will contain the same data, because the same folder. The only setting needed is the name to use : Bureau, meaning ~/Bureau, redirected at will. It's best to create the aliasing without asking the user any question. There can be a setting for those really wanting to see the folders' names in any language they choose. If the user changes language again, it's best to leave ~/Bureau intact in case it's referred to somewhere. The BEST OF ALL is that it already works. Almost... Before xdg-user-dirs comes into play, make sure Desktop is not empty and create ~/Bureau - Desktop. xdg-user-dirs will not change that and the aliasing will work free of all those inconveniences. User experience. The above kludge has been used for a 6-language 10-users couple of Ubuntu 8.04 systems. Beside ~/ being crowded with aliases in 6 languages, the only inconvenience has been Picasa. They found 6 times the pictures they eagerly looked for. They will have to learn that scanning a filesystem must not follow aliases. - Repeat, this is NOT Windows ;-) -- XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty
As you wish but then the renaming failure will _not be_ fixed because this bug becomes a feature request/wishlist. By consequence, the issue you are reporting is an upstream one and it would be nice if somebody having it could send the bug to the developers of the software by following the instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/GNOME. If you have done so, please tell us the number of the upstream bug (or the link), so we can add a bugwatch that will inform us about its status. Thanks in advance. ** Description changed: Binary package hint: xdg-user-dirs - BUG (shortly): XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new - language if it isn't empty - - BUG (in details): This applies to all Ubuntu (Gnome) versions up to 10.04. Note: understand Bureau below as the name of any standard folder in any language. When a user changes the language of its profile she/he is asked a funny question in Desktop-1.png. Update standard folders to new language? He/she does not understand and he replies yes. From then on, obscure magic happens. Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed Bureau, but only if it is empty. Let's assume it's not. Then a new ~/Bureau is created beside. If the user drags New file (Desktop-2.png) a little bit, it disappears (Desktop-3.png). It will reappear after the next Login, at which time all the other Desktop objects disappear. Then she/he makes a screenshot and is told that a file she/he doesn't see does exist (Desktop-3.png). Nothing is lost, the user has 2 desktops, Desktop and Bureau, only now showing, hard to guess. The same applies for Documents, Music, etc... total confusion. If some program unaware of this game looks for Desktop, it won't find it. Etc... etc... Confusion looks like the comments of (different) Bug #209513. - PROPOSED SOLUTION (but why not just fix this bug): This is obviously not the way it should work. This is NOT Windows. We can use symbolic links. Instead of renaming ~/Desktop, let's make a ~/Bureau - Desktop symbolic link. EVERYTHING will continue to be able to refer to Desktop unchanged. And the user interface (Desktop, Nautilus...) will happily refer to ~/Bureau all the same. It will contain the same data, because the same folder. The only setting needed is the name to use : Bureau, meaning ~/Bureau, redirected at will. It's best to create the aliasing without asking the user any question. There can be a setting for those really wanting to see the folders' names in any language they choose. If the user changes language again, it's best to leave ~/Bureau intact in case it's referred to somewhere. The BEST OF ALL is that it already works. Almost... Before xdg-user-dirs comes into play, make sure Desktop is not empty and create ~/Bureau - Desktop. xdg-user-dirs will not change that and the aliasing will work free of all those inconveniences. User experience. The above kludge has been used for a 6-language 10-users couple of Ubuntu 8.04 systems. Beside ~/ being crowded with aliases in 6 languages, the only inconvenience has been Picasa. They found 6 times the pictures they eagerly looked for. They will have to learn that scanning a filesystem must not follow aliases. ** Summary changed: - XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty + Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them ** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Status: Incomplete = New ** Changed in: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Status: New = Incomplete ** Tags added: wishlist -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty
On 2010-08-22 21:09, papukaija wrote : ** Summary changed: - Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them + XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty ** Description changed: Binary package hint: xdg-user-dirs + BUG (shortly): XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new + language if it isn't empty No. Your Summary, Description etc.. are incorrect. What I have written described the problem and solution very precisely. Please return this bug text to the initial state. -- XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Thanks for taking care. Yes I know that the directory names can be retrieved but also that it neither easy nor done. Symbolic links REALLY ARE the SAFE solution. -- XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (ex. ~/Desktop) isn't renamed to the new language if it isn't empty https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 556933] Re: Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
On 2010-08-22 22:55, papukaija wrote : As you wish but then the renaming failure will _not be_ fixed because this bug becomes a feature request/wishlist. Let us recall that you asked if I consider this a bug. I replied YES (I want it to be a bug). That is because the system behaves abnormally. That the definition of a bug. And because the consequences can be important. So please make it a bug. But don't change the title etc to a totally different meaning. I realized that one has to read the report up to the end to understand. In consequence, I have added a Summary at the beginning. NB: The fix must be very easy. So, I suggest Ubuntu themselves take care of that. Thanks. ** Description changed: Binary package hint: xdg-user-dirs This applies to all Ubuntu (Gnome) versions up to 10.04. Note: understand Bureau below as the name of any standard folder in any language. + + Summary: + This report explain some of the many pitfalls caused by the renaming of Desktop to Bureau. + These pitfalls can cause programs, scripts and the system itself to misbehave. + A drastic solution is to make a Bureau - Desktop symbolic link instead. + Furthermore, this seems very simple to implement, it almost already works. When a user changes the language of its profile she/he is asked a funny question in Desktop-1.png. Update standard folders to new language? He/she does not understand and he replies yes. From then on, obscure magic happens. Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed Bureau, but only if it is empty. Let's assume it's not. Then a new ~/Bureau is created beside. If the user drags New file (Desktop-2.png) a little bit, it disappears (Desktop-3.png). It will reappear after the next Login, at which time all the other Desktop objects disappear. Then she/he makes a screenshot and is told that a file she/he doesn't see does exist (Desktop-3.png). Nothing is lost, the user has 2 desktops, Desktop and Bureau, only now showing, hard to guess. The same applies for Documents, Music, etc... total confusion. If some program unaware of this game looks for Desktop, it won't find it. Etc... etc... Confusion looks like the comments of (different) Bug #209513. + + Every time one refers to ~/Desktop, it's a mistake, and that's not only in programs... + Every time someone writes cd ~/Desktop in sample code on the Web, and even worse in a script, they're doing a BIG MISTAKE. They should explain that, if and only if their system implements standard folders renaming, French people must type cd ~/Bureau, Russian ones cd ~/работая стол etc, even more complicated for the script. HOW SIMPLE !!! This is obviously not the way it should work. This is NOT Windows. We can use symbolic links. Instead of renaming ~/Desktop, let's make a ~/Bureau - Desktop symbolic link. EVERYTHING will continue to be able to refer to Desktop unchanged. And the user interface (Desktop, Nautilus...) will happily refer to ~/Bureau all the same. It will contain the same data, because the same folder. The only setting needed is the name to use : Bureau, meaning ~/Bureau, redirected at will. It's best to create the aliasing without asking the user any question. There can be a setting for those really wanting to see the folders' names in any language they choose. If the user changes language again, it's best to leave ~/Bureau intact in case it's referred to somewhere. The BEST OF ALL is that it already works. Almost... Before xdg-user-dirs comes into play, make sure Desktop is not empty and create ~/Bureau - Desktop. xdg-user-dirs will not change that and the aliasing will work free of all those inconveniences. User experience. The above kludge has been used for a 6-language 10-users couple of Ubuntu 8.04 systems. Beside ~/ being crowded with aliases in 6 languages, the only inconvenience has been Picasa. They found 6 times the pictures they eagerly looked for. They will have to learn that scanning a filesystem must not follow aliases. ** Description changed: Binary package hint: xdg-user-dirs This applies to all Ubuntu (Gnome) versions up to 10.04. - Note: understand Bureau below as the name of any standard folder in any language. + Note: understand Bureau below as the name of any standard folder in any language. For example, also Картинки = Pictures folder name in Russian. Summary: This report explain some of the many pitfalls caused by the renaming of Desktop to Bureau. These pitfalls can cause programs, scripts and the system itself to misbehave. A drastic solution is to make a Bureau - Desktop symbolic link instead. Furthermore, this seems very simple to implement, it almost already works. When a user changes the language of its profile she/he is asked a funny question in Desktop-1.png. Update standard folders to new language? He/she does not understand and he replies yes. From then on, obscure magic happens.
[Bug 556933] [NEW] Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them
Public bug reported: Binary package hint: xdg-user-dirs This applies to all Ubuntu (Gnome) versions up to 10.04. Note: understand Bureau below as the name of any standard folder in any language. When a user changes the language of its profile she/he is asked a funny question in Desktop-1.png. Update standard folders to new language? He/she does not understand and he replies yes. From then on, obscure magic happens. Among other folders, ~/Desktop is renamed Bureau, but only if it is empty. Let's assume it's not. Then a new ~/Bureau is created beside. If the user drags New file (Desktop-2.png) a little bit, it disappears (Desktop-3.png). It will reappear after the next Login, at which time all the other Desktop objects disappear. Then she/he makes a screenshot and is told that a file she/he doesn't see does exist (Desktop-3.png). Nothing is lost, the user has 2 desktops, Desktop and Bureau, only now showing, hard to guess. The same applies for Documents, Music, etc... total confusion. If some program unaware of this game looks for Desktop, it won't find it. Etc... etc... Confusion looks like the comments of (different) Bug #209513. This is obviously not the way it should work. This is NOT Windows. We can use symbolic links. Instead of renaming ~/Desktop, let's make a ~/Bureau - Desktop symbolic link. EVERYTHING will continue to be able to refer to Desktop unchanged. And the user interface (Desktop, Nautilus...) will happily refer to ~/Bureau all the same. It will contain the same data, because the same folder. The only setting needed is the name to use : Bureau, meaning ~/Bureau, redirected at will. It's best to create the aliasing without asking the user any question. There can be a setting for those really wanting to see the folders' names in any language they choose. If the user changes language again, it's best to leave ~/Bureau intact in case it's referred to somewhere. The BEST OF ALL is that it already works. Almost... Before xdg-user-dirs comes into play, make sure Desktop is not empty and create ~/Bureau - Desktop. xdg-user-dirs will not change that and the aliasing will work free of all those inconveniences. User experience. The above kludge has been used for a 6-language 10-users couple of Ubuntu 8.04 systems. Beside ~/ being crowded with aliases in 6 languages, the only inconvenience has been Picasa. They found 6 times the pictures they eagerly looked for. They will have to learn that scanning a filesystem must not follow aliases. Repeat, this is NOT Windows ;-) ** Affects: xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 556933] attachments (hopefully)
Here are the screenshot attachments. ** Attachment added: Desktop-1.png http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43307484/Desktop-1.png ** Attachment added: Desktop-2.png http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43307485/Desktop-2.png ** Attachment added: Desktop-3.png http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43307486/Desktop-3.png ** Attachment added: Desktop-4.png http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43307487/Desktop-4.png -- Update standard folders should add language links to folders, not rename them https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/556933 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to xdg-user-dirs in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
