Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, Allan Day wrote: Dave Neary wrote: Presumably you others are still not interested in drawing a few developers and designers into a gnome-design mailing list, separate from the usability list I think it's important that we work on being more accessible, and we need to make it easier

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Johannes Schmid
Hi! That's disappointing. Using IRC really is an anti-pattern which the design team should avoid - it's only one step removed from doing everything in person or on conference calls. Bugzilla isn't a forum, nor can you be sure who you're talking to, or easily follow past discussions through

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Matthias Clasen
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:31 AM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Hi, That's disappointing. Using IRC really is an anti-pattern which the design team should avoid - it's only one step removed from doing everything in person or on conference calls. Bugzilla isn't a forum, nor can you be

HTTP REST library ??

2011-06-01 Thread Erick Pérez
Hi: I'm not pretty sure it is here where one should ask, but I can think of a better place Question: Which is the method/standart component you recommend to make HTTP REST requests in gnome ? I read the PlatfromOverview of Gnome 2.32 and there libsoup was mentioned, as the same document for Gnome

Re: HTTP REST library ??

2011-06-01 Thread Ross Burton
2011/6/1 Erick Pérez erick@gmail.com: Question: Which is the method/standart component you recommend to make HTTP REST requests in gnome ? I read the PlatfromOverview of Gnome 2.32 and there libsoup was mentioned, as the same document for Gnome 3.0 isn't ready yet I wonder libsoup is

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Richard Hughes
On 1 June 2011 12:57, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, mailing lists don't work for many kinds of productive discussion. Agreed. In my recent discussions with the dudes in #gnome-design there was a flurry of messages, perhaps as many as 200 back-and-forth discussions

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Vincent Untz
Le mercredi 01 juin 2011, à 13:33 +0100, Richard Hughes a écrit : On 1 June 2011 12:57, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, mailing lists don't work for many kinds of productive discussion. Agreed. In my recent discussions with the dudes in #gnome-design there was a

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, On 06/01/11 13:57, Matthias Clasen wrote: On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:31 AM, Dave Nearydne...@gnome.org wrote: That's disappointing. Using IRC really is an anti-pattern which the design team should avoid snip I really can't think of anything better than a mailing list which you could use

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Johannes Schmid
Hi! On 1 June 2011 12:57, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, mailing lists don't work for many kinds of productive discussion. Agreed. In my recent discussions with the dudes in #gnome-design there was a flurry of messages, perhaps as many as 200 back-and-forth

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread William Jon McCann
Hi, On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:31 AM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote: Hi, Allan Day wrote: Dave Neary wrote: Presumably you others are still not interested in drawing a few developers and designers into a gnome-design mailing list, separate from the usability list I think it's

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread William Jon McCann
Hi, On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de wrote: Hi! On 1 June 2011 12:57, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, mailing lists don't work for many kinds of productive discussion. Agreed. In my recent discussions with the dudes in

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 15:18, Vincent Untz vu...@gnome.org wrote: Le mercredi 01 juin 2011, à 13:33 +0100, Richard Hughes a écrit : On 1 June 2011 12:57, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, mailing lists don't work for many kinds of productive discussion. Agreed.

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Dave Neary
Hi, There's a lot in this email, it's worth responding to in detail (because it gets to the heart of the matter). Reordered slightly to make my answer more coherent :) William Jon McCann wrote: I think you need to be more clear about what your goals are. My goals are to enable the design team

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Johannes Schmid
Hi Jon! Are they listening or participating? Transparency and reporting is pretty simple to solve. Publish logs, document (wiki), and blog and you're pretty much there. Participation and engagement is much harder. Basically you need to find a way to build a relationship with a designer. It

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread William Jon McCann
Hi, On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de wrote: Hi Jon! Are they listening or participating? Transparency and reporting is pretty simple to solve. Publish logs, document (wiki), and blog and you're pretty much there.  Participation and engagement is much harder.

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Johannes Schmid
Hi! Everyone may have an opinion and they are free to express it. However, not everyone can be consulted before the fact - it is just practically impossible. Those opinions, however, should be carefully gathered and analyzed. There are careers for this. I think you miss the original point of

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Jason D. Clinton
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:38, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de wrote: Pretty good list of examples. All of these projects are mostly driven by Red Hat full-time employees (which isn't a bad thing in general). It happens to be the same company employing big parts of the core design team.

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Allan Day
Dave Neary wrote: By working real-time, you are preventing a relationship from being built beyond a small group of people. Those people work closely together, but have the appearance of a closed tight-knit clique from outside the group. There is no transparency about what the design team is,

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Frederic Peters
Jason D. Clinton wrote: On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:38, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de wrote: Pretty good list of examples. All of these projects are mostly driven by Red Hat full-time employees (which isn't a bad thing in general). It happens to be the same company employing big parts of

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Jason D. Clinton
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 14:31, Frederic Peters fpet...@gnome.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:38, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de wrote: Pretty good list of examples. All of these projects are mostly driven by Red Hat full-time employees (which isn't a bad thing in general). It happens

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Johannes Schmid
Hi! To *who* does it feel that way? If you're going to insinuate that people have tried to get involved and been rebuffed, then I think the responsibility here falls to you to provide an example. Please don't talk around the accusation by inferring that it's some kind of RH conspiracy. It's

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Colin Walters
Hi Johannes, On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de wrote: I think you miss the original point of the discussion: Even people that would want to join the discussion have a hard time doing it if everything is discussion on IRC (at a certain time) only. I would

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Paul Cutler
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Colin Walters walt...@verbum.org wrote: I would really love to see someone set up official logging of GNOME IRC, like MeetBot or whatever.  Several people run private loggers, but we'd just need to make clear to participants that it is being publicly logged.

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 04:10:46PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: Both of these things require changes on the GNOME servers though, so it's hard to just Make Happen =/ If people have something concrete and workable, then propose it. Things I've noticed: * interactive is needed e.g. mailing

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Robert Ancell
On 2 June 2011 06:10, Colin Walters walt...@verbum.org wrote: Hi Johannes, On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de wrote: I think you miss the original point of the discussion: Even people that would want to join the discussion have a hard time doing it if

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Sriram Ramkrishna
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:22 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Something that has worked well in Sugar has been to start discussion on the mailing list and then schedule a meeting on IRC. Afterwards minutes are sent back to the ml where discussion can continue and the feature

Re: On the Interaction with the design team

2011-06-01 Thread Shaun McCance
On Wed, 2011-06-01 at 16:10 -0400, Colin Walters wrote: Hi Johannes, On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de wrote: I think you miss the original point of the discussion: Even people that would want to join the discussion have a hard time doing it if