Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On 15 Mar 2006, at 19:23, Nigel Tao wrote: If it's in the bottom right corner of the screen (as it is in Ubuntu's default setup, for example), it's several thousand pixels wide and several thousand pixels high, making it the easiest thing to drag to in the whole of Gnome. Except when, like me, you want panel hide arrows turned on :) In which case, you stick it in almost the corner, and it's still very easy to hit - slam the mouse into the corner, and then just the slightest flick of the wrist in the opposite direction. Two movements, both fast according to Fitts - the first one has a superlarge target area, the second one is a short distance. Well, they're both fast if you're not holding down a mouse button at the time, but there's an extra level of muscle control required when you are, which makes the direction change that bit more tricky. And actually, in practice, short distances can be made more difficult than long ones by the realities of mouse mechanics... e.g. when your desk has grit (or crumbs!) on it that throw the rollers off a bit, or you have one of those old optical mice that suffers from pointer wobble or needs to be always aligned with its shiny mat's X-Y axes for it to go exactly where you intended. So it's never all quite as straightforward as Fitts would have us believe :) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
I also have such a monitor and one thing I've been missing is a way to mouse click on the window switcher. I also have a window switcher button on my mouse, the MX1000. I would be nice if this button activated the window switcher where the mouse was and would then let me click on the application icon instead of going all the way to the menu and clicking on an icon there. It pops up in the middle of the screen, rather than where the mouse is, but you might want to check out superswitcher. Currently, it binds to the Super key, but you could possibly bind your fancy mouse button to that, too. http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1231 screenshot: http://blogs.gnome.org/attachment/nigeltao/2006/01/02/1/superswitcher.png It also does a lot more, such as find-as-you-type search for windows, and keyboard shortcuts for add/remove workspaces. Nigel. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
The desktop almost always obstructed by the applications run by a user, why should a user have to minimize 5 or 6 windows to play a song, or open a text document? This ruins the workflow of the user. Personally, I think that the desktop belongs in the age when operating systems couldn't multitask adequately. A great example of this would be the trash can. Unless you were lucky enough to have only one nautilus window open, deleting was the job of the context menu. The trash applet was a great step forward for usability, don't let it regress now. -- Mike ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On 3/14/06, TRANS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I'm new to the list. I have had this idea in the back of my mind for a while and I thought it was about time I share it and see what others think. I point out that this is in consideration of how GNU/Linux via Gnome can differentiate and innovate beyond the other options out there. My idea is this. I would really like it if my Desktop actually were the File Browser. In other words instead of having a seperate Desktop/ directory in my home directory, the desktop could actually reflect my home directory (or any other defaut directory I tell it too for that matter), but more that this, to be able to navigate thru the file heirarchy like one normally does with Nautilus, but without the need for a seperate window. An optional split pane mode would also be useful in this design (like MC). And if you want to go a step further, some cool transition effects between directory changes ;-) To me this would be a much more natural way of working with my system. Just by hitting the Desktop icon on my toolbar, up pops file naviagtion (is there a shorcut key sequence for that btw?). Application windows reside on top of all that, making it qucik and easy to go back and forth. Plus workspaces would then each have their on independent current directory. I think that would make workspaces more intuitive and useful too. What do others think? Trans. I have been thinking about this for a while too, I think it is a great idea - I like that by using the 'Show Desktop' toogle/applet a user could get to some file, and then return the desktop to the way it was before the looked for the file The best place to see this working is on a PSION series 5 (maybe later, I only have a 5) - it is still the most productive environment I have ever used - and I liked the way the desktop was the file manager. If it was implemented, I think it would be essential that there was a very quick way to get back to the 'original desktop' - I.E the ~/Desktop folder. Given that we currently use Nautilus for the desktop, it is not much hacking to include at least a Gconf key to enable users to browse using their desktop? I may do some mockups, if people are interested... Who ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On 15 Mar 2006, at 09:55, Mike Douglas wrote: The trash applet was a great step forward for usability I'd somewhat dispute that, personally... no matter where on my panels I put the darn thing, nine times out of ten, it couldn't be further away from the thing I'm trying to delete if it tried, and dragging things that far is a royal pain. (That doesn't make it any worse than the desktop trashcan, certainly... just not notably better IMHO.) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On 3/14/06, TRANS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My idea is this. I would really like it if my Desktop actually were the File Browser. In other words instead of having a seperate Desktop/ directory in my home directory, the desktop could actually reflect my home directory (or any other defaut directory I tell it too for that matter), but more that this, to be able to navigate thru the file heirarchy like one normally does with Nautilus Execpt if you use the default mode, which is spatial and with which the desktop already behaves like just another window ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On Mar 15, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Calum Benson wrote: On 15 Mar 2006, at 09:55, Mike Douglas wrote: The trash applet was a great step forward for usability I'd somewhat dispute that, personally... no matter where on my panels I put the darn thing, nine times out of ten, it couldn't be further away from the thing I'm trying to delete if it tried, and dragging things that far is a royal pain. (That doesn't make it any worse than the desktop trashcan, certainly... just not notably better IMHO.) ... If it's in the bottom right corner of the screen (as it is in Ubuntu's default setup, for example), it's several thousand pixels wide and several thousand pixels high, making it the easiest thing to drag to in the whole of Gnome. If you can't easily drag from one side of the screen to the other, there's something wrong with your mouse acceleration settings. -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On Wed, 2006-03-15 at 13:52, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: If it's in the bottom right corner of the screen (as it is in Ubuntu's default setup, for example), it's several thousand pixels wide and several thousand pixels high, making it the easiest thing to drag to in the whole of Gnome. If you can't easily drag from one side of the screen to the other, there's something wrong with your mouse acceleration settings. I have recently acquired a 24 screen and I must say things are not so simple. Fitt's law works for small screens, but not for big ones. Of course you could have a big acceleration factor to be able to cross the screen in one hand movement, but then you can't use your mouse anymore to draw something with the Gimp (and big screen users are often graphists). Xav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On 15 Mar 2006, at 12:52, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: On Mar 15, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Calum Benson wrote: On 15 Mar 2006, at 09:55, Mike Douglas wrote: The trash applet was a great step forward for usability I'd somewhat dispute that, personally... no matter where on my panels I put the darn thing, nine times out of ten, it couldn't be further away from the thing I'm trying to delete if it tried, and dragging things that far is a royal pain. (That doesn't make it any worse than the desktop trashcan, certainly... just not notably better IMHO.) ... If it's in the bottom right corner of the screen (as it is in Ubuntu's default setup, for example), it's several thousand pixels wide and several thousand pixels high, making it the easiest thing to drag to in the whole of Gnome. Except when, like me, you want panel hide arrows turned on :) If you can't easily drag from one side of the screen to the other, there's something wrong with your mouse acceleration settings. Not wrong, I just haven't found any settings to my taste that allow me to do it. I've always hated anything that significantly speeds up my pointer the further I move it, so I prefer to stick with as near a linear correlation as I can get away with... which, with a big monitor and not much desk space, usually means a couple of movements to traverse the desktop. (I just press Ctrl+T or Delete to trash files anyway, so I should add that it's not a big deal whether any sort of Trash icon or applet works well for me... except that if it doesn't, it probably doesn't work well for some other percentage of our users either, who may or may not want to use it any more than I do.) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On 3/15/06, Xavier Bestel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2006-03-15 at 13:52, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: If it's in the bottom right corner of the screen (as it is in Ubuntu's default setup, for example), it's several thousand pixels wide and several thousand pixels high, making it the easiest thing to drag to in the whole of Gnome. If you can't easily drag from one side of the screen to the other, there's something wrong with your mouse acceleration settings. I have recently acquired a 24 screen and I must say things are not so simple. Fitt's law works for small screens, but not for big ones. nitpick You probably mean this application of Fitt's law here. Fitt's law is not about corners, it's about distance and size of target. In this case the distance becomes too large to be practically obtainable but that's more a flaw in your pointing device than in the actual law... /nitpick But of course it's not as beneficial on huge screens due to the restrictions of the pointing device. -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
Who wrote: Given that we currently use Nautilus for the desktop, it is not much hacking to include at least a Gconf key to enable users to browse using their desktop? It breaks the analogy of the desktop being (mostly) static. Anything activated from the desktop goes in a new window, though the state of the desktop can be moved around. Having live content on the desktop necessitates more widgets and more complication. --Pat ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
Kalle Vahlman wrote: On 3/15/06, Xavier Bestel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have recently acquired a 24 screen and I must say things are not so simple. Fitt's law works for small screens, but not for big ones. nitpick You probably mean this application of Fitt's law here. Fitt's law is not about corners, it's about distance and size of target. nitpickier You mean Fitts' Law, not Fitt's Law. :-) /nitpickier But yeah, we should call the edges-and-corners thing Tog's Law. But of course it's not as beneficial on huge screens due to the restrictions of the pointing device. Yeah. 1. Tog's Law assumes that you have enough mousing space (given the speed and acceleration settings that are reasonable for small- scale use on your screen). This fails if you have a huge monitor and lack a correspondingly huge mousing area, eg, because your physical desktop is cluttered, or because you use a keyboard and mouse tray for ergonomic reasons, and it only has a limited amount of space for mousing in. 2. It also assumes that you're using an input device that behaves like a mouse. Touchpads are mostly similar enough (at least on laptop-sized monitors), but the Thinkpad joystick thingy is sufficiently different to make the edges of the screen feel much farther away. 3. For that matter, it assumes the user *realizes* that the input device has acceleration, which some (many?) users don't (especially with touchpads). 4. It's easy to get to the edge of the screen, but it's hard to get back where you were before. This isn't that big a deal on a 512x384 original Mac screen, but it is on modern screens. (In fact, given that Fitts' Law has a precise mathematical formulation, you could calculate the exact monitor size at which the Mac-style global menubar becomes less efficient on average than Gtk-style per-window menubars. Of course the standard Windows model where you maximize every window, but have the menubar below the titlebar model manages to capture the worst of both worlds.) -- Dan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On 3/15/06, Dan Winship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kalle Vahlman wrote: On 3/15/06, Xavier Bestel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have recently acquired a 24 screen and I must say things are not so simple. Fitt's law works for small screens, but not for big ones. nitpick You probably mean this application of Fitt's law here. Fitt's law is not about corners, it's about distance and size of target. nitpickier You mean Fitts' Law, not Fitt's Law. :-) /nitpickier Oooh, you have out-nitpicked me! I humbly bow in acknowledgment of your superior nitpickiness. ;) (the rest, couldn't agree more) -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006, Who wrote: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:42:22 + From: Who [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Desktop as Nautilus On 3/14/06, TRANS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] My idea is this. I would really like it if my Desktop actually were the File Browser. In other words instead of having a seperate Desktop/ directory in my home directory, the desktop could actually reflect my home directory (or any other defaut directory I tell it too for that matter), but more that this, to be able to navigate thru the file heirarchy like one normally does with Nautilus, but without the need for a seperate window. The best place to see this working is on a PSION series 5 (maybe later, I only have a 5) - it is still the most productive environment I have ever used - and I liked the way the desktop was the file manager. It isn't entirely clear what you mean but if I understand you correctly you could achieve something similar by running Matchbox on your desktop instead of Metacity (which have done before to try it out and I kind of liked it). Matchbox takes the main menu and displays it on the desk. http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/ http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots.html http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots/ss-pango.png http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots/mediabox/base.png Hope that helps Sincerely Alan Horkan Inkscape http://inkscape.org Abiword http://www.abisource.com Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On 3/15/06, Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 15 Mar 2006, Who wrote: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:42:22 + From: Who [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Desktop as Nautilus On 3/14/06, TRANS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] My idea is this. I would really like it if my Desktop actually were the File Browser. In other words instead of having a seperate Desktop/ directory in my home directory, the desktop could actually reflect my home directory (or any other defaut directory I tell it too for that matter), but more that this, to be able to navigate thru the file heirarchy like one normally does with Nautilus, but without the need for a seperate window. The best place to see this working is on a PSION series 5 (maybe later, I only have a 5) - it is still the most productive environment I have ever used - and I liked the way the desktop was the file manager. It isn't entirely clear what you mean but if I understand you correctly you could achieve something similar by running Matchbox on your desktop instead of Metacity (which have done before to try it out and I kind of liked it). Matchbox takes the main menu and displays it on the desk. http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/ http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots.html http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots/ss-pango.png http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots/mediabox/base.png Hope that helps Thanks! I am not on Linux now, but if matchbox-desktop could be run alone then it seems to be exactly what _I_ was talking about - not sure about the OP. I will experiment this evening Who ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
If it's in the bottom right corner of the screen (as it is in Ubuntu's default setup, for example), it's several thousand pixels wide and several thousand pixels high, making it the easiest thing to drag to in the whole of Gnome. Except when, like me, you want panel hide arrows turned on :) In which case, you stick it in almost the corner, and it's still very easy to hit - slam the mouse into the corner, and then just the slightest flick of the wrist in the opposite direction. Two movements, both fast according to Fitts - the first one has a superlarge target area, the second one is a short distance. Nigel. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
On Wed, 2006-03-15 at 17:26 +, Alan Horkan wrote: It isn't entirely clear what you mean but if I understand you correctly you could achieve something similar by running Matchbox on your desktop instead of Metacity (which have done before to try it out and I kind of liked it). Matchbox takes the main menu and displays it on the desk. Not strictly true. Matchbox handles normal top-level windows differently to most window managers by forcing their size to fill the screen. It handles dialogs, desktops, panels, and so on as expected so the end result would be that nautilus takes the desktop as expected and double-clicking on a folder on the desktop would then open a new full-screen window for that folder, that wouldn't have any magical desktop-like properties. Ross -- Ross Burton mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
TRANS [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would really like it if my Desktop actually were the File Browser. I think this is a horrible idea and deviates much from the nautilus and gnome philosophy, in my opinion;). The desktop, as far as I see it should not contain anything, ideally, only a first person view into an interactive 3d world;). Some hot cairo graphics is a resonable first step;). hitting the Desktop icon on my toolbar People should be hitting the icon of the directory they want or an open nautilus window and the go to the directory they want, in my opinion, as it is now. The clear desktop button should have no use. workspaces I also find workspaces extremely non productive. You shouldn't need more than one, in my opinion. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact [sip|iax]: e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Desktop as Nautilus
Hi. I'm new to the list. I have had this idea in the back of my mind for a while and I thought it was about time I share it and see what others think. I point out that this is in consideration of how GNU/Linux via Gnome can differentiate and innovate beyond the other options out there. My idea is this. I would really like it if my Desktop actually were the File Browser. In other words instead of having a seperate Desktop/ directory in my home directory, the desktop could actually reflect my home directory (or any other defaut directory I tell it too for that matter), but more that this, to be able to navigate thru the file heirarchy like one normally does with Nautilus, but without the need for a seperate window. An optional split pane mode would also be useful in this design (like MC). And if you want to go a step further, some cool transition effects between directory changes ;-) To me this would be a much more natural way of working with my system. Just by hitting the Desktop icon on my toolbar, up pops file naviagtion (is there a shorcut key sequence for that btw?). Application windows reside on top of all that, making it qucik and easy to go back and forth. Plus workspaces would then each have their on independent current directory. I think that would make workspaces more intuitive and useful too. What do others think? Trans. (P.S. I assume this is the right mialing list for this. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Desktop as Nautilus
Your ideas are interesting: TRANS wrote: My idea is this. I would really like it if my Desktop actually were the File Browser. In other words instead of having a seperate Desktop/ directory in my home directory, the desktop could actually reflect my home directory (or any other defaut directory I tell it too for that matter), but more that this, to be able to navigate thru the file heirarchy like one normally does with Nautilus, but without the need for a seperate window. An optional split pane mode would also be useful in this design (like MC). And if you want to go a step further, some cool transition effects between directory changes ;-) Having desktop-as-home is actually a Nautilus option already, though the people who wrote it do not support it. I use it, because like you, I think it's a very natural approach to where things are. See the gconf key: /apps/nautilus/preferences/desktop_is_home_dir (bool) As to actually making it a browsable interface, I'm not sure I can visualize how that would work. Most people are not fans of live desktops, like what Microsoft tried back in 1996. I think it is generally believed that it makes sense to do a fundamental task like browsing folders in a window that does not get covered by other windows. To me this would be a much more natural way of working with my system. Just by hitting the Desktop icon on my toolbar, up pops file Is this so much different than hitting the Nautilus browse launcher icon? --Pat ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
